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Eminito
Deep Space 10 Mining
4
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Posted - 2014.07.14 10:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just a bit of background- So since the crime overhaul my corp mates and I have been actively hunting criminals, and doing our best to nullify the success of certain groups hell bent on disrupting high sec operations.. we successfully started a career patrolling and 'trying' to actively engage those bad bad people. We even took to areas actively prowling for and hunting would be suicide ganks, and I must say, player response has been excellent.
Our most notable anti-gank was a providence with approx 2.5bn isk of cargo, ending armour, and into structure when we happened to jump through the gate.. the pilot was raging in local, and the gankers were tormenting him with "LOL should have tanked your freighter", and "LOL rage carebear, RAGE like a GIRL" (etc etc).. Much to the dismay of the attackers, with haulers ready to collect loot, when 3 guardians, with escort locked said freighter, and rapidly hauled his ass out the proverbial brown stuff. The suicide gankers were mopped up by concord and everything fell silent. The freighter pilot thanked us a million times, and 3 days later 'donated' 500m isk to our efforts. Kudos for the gesture, if you're reading, makes it feel like we're making a difference.
So it inspired me to ask this in ideas forum.
What do folks think about being able to 'warp to' anyone with a criminal flag. (similar to how you can warp to a cyno through local). What I'm intending is to add further emergent policing game play. Lore wise, concord flag criminal activity, and tag them with a 'warp to' feature, so anyone actively policing can jump straight to the crime or crime-in-progress. 95% of the time we are in the system, and someone flags up as criminal, it's almost impossible to locate them in time - and it seems to mitigate the danger to criminals for behaving like toads.
We love eve, love the player emergent play style, love and feel satisfied 'trying' to police areas, we have the players ships and capability to make a huge difference and would really like to do more. This would help us do our jobs, and increment the risk associated in criminal activity, where as there seems to be almost none right now - at the very least it would help us land in a gank in progress quicker, and respond to an emergency with greater efficiency.
Love to hear thoughts.
o/ fly safe |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
202
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Posted - 2014.07.14 10:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hmm GZ on your effort and success.
Regarding the suggestion or rather question, as much as it might help you, It can easily be exploited by others too, who would circumvent probing and scanning. It also makes baiting easy, a lot to consider - but see this as a start into more research and discussions to follow. Don't want to put it down. I like the thought. Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns Nerfed Alliance Go Away
22
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Posted - 2014.07.14 10:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Grats man, thats the sort of cool emergent gameplay i like to see... Lemme know if you guys take ride-alongs i might hit you up next time i'm in highsec... I can either bring a buttload of DPS or any-non scimitar logi...
The warp too seems a bit wonky for reasons given above but i feel something like this is something that has the potential to be awesome gameplay... |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid Overload Everything
574
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Posted - 2014.07.14 10:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Congratulations on actually doing something. If there were more people like yourself who acted rather than running to the forums to whine EvE would be a much more interesting place. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1801
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Posted - 2014.07.14 14:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
o7 Doing it right.
warping to someone who is suspect is too powerful. Maybe i steal someones stuff and warp to a safe, it should not be that easy to just warp on top of me.
Beacons that are created by the victim's ship at the moment a crime/suspicious action occurs would be better IMO. I dont expect this to be a straight forward implementation however.
It also may struggle to be useful in some cases. Ganks last mere seconds and thieves would warp the moment they are threatened. It may however be very useful for hunting neut RR in war decs.
If nothing comes from this, keep fighting the good fight and make urself known. Find a way to get those in trouble/under ur protection to fleet with u and u can warp right in. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
126
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Posted - 2014.07.14 17:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Eminito wrote:. the pilot was raging in local, and the gankers were tormenting him with "LOL should have tanked your freighter", and "LOL rage carebear, RAGE like a GIRL" (etc etc).. M
Professionalism is dead. |
Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille Gallente Federation
68
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Posted - 2014.07.14 18:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
um.
Instead of a criminal Flag being warp able to.. A ship under attack could broadcast a SOS instead that would become a warpable beacon that would last for 60 sec to 5 minutes?
So the ship under attack would have to do an extra action to set up the beacon. AFK ships get no benefit.
"Please point to the place on the doll where the carebear touched you." |
Saisin
State War Academy Caldari State
93
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Posted - 2014.07.14 19:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
There have been a few threads already about a SOS or mayday beacon ideA.
Even if it could be used as a trap too, I am in favor of this kind of beacon being introduced in the game. I would limit its usage to once per day per character though, and make the notification system able to relay the message up to 10 jumps out or so, with a link to the character activating it and the system where it has become active.
Congrats on saving the day of this freighter with your team, well played. The tears of the gankers must have been sweet :) "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/2014/05/ok-now-im-betting-man.html |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2838
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Posted - 2014.07.14 19:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Im not in favour of it being a property of a suspect flag but i like the idea of a beacon, a deployable maybe . "Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything |
Dally Lama
Republic University Minmatar Republic
66
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Posted - 2014.07.15 04:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
A noob like me would pretty much never hunt when other PVPers are in system. Nice idea in theory but in practice actually reduces violence IMO
EDIT: Whoa, high-sec?? Were talking high-sec????? How is anyone going to warp, land, and anti-gank in under 20 seconds New Fitting Window | Distances above 10km | Maximums for buy orders |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7893
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Posted - 2014.07.15 04:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
While I applaud your gameplay, your idea would be extremely overpowered without first nerfing the crap out of CONCORD. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Professor Solus
The Chicago School
1
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Posted - 2014.07.15 04:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
This is a neat idea, but CCP and the CSM have been co-opted by a narrow segment of the playerbase that don't want to make hi-sec interesting - they just want to protect their own playstyle.
Don't expect any meaningful changes to PvP in high security space. |
Eminito
Deep Space 10 Mining
8
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Posted - 2014.07.15 09:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Huge warm thanks to everyone who posted for the discussion on this. Some great points were made, and I entirely understand that perhaps a criminal tag *warp to* would be too much. Love the ideas of deployable distress beacons, kind of like a distress buoy sea fairing ships may well use... although I can see already these could be abused to spam systems.. not sure how to solve this one.
Maybe the take-home here could be ideas, or further research around said "distress buoy* that lasts perhaps minutes (new market for this perhaps) - or - some kind of 'in ship' or 'pilot interfaced' distress transponder that lights up like a cyno beacon, perhaps on a 12hr cooldown, or something.
*Anything* to stop having to rely on folks raging hard in 'local' to get a fix on a potential citizen in need. Right now, unfortunately; as much as gankers enjoy tears in local, it's also my only tool!
You can skip this part if you cba with a wall of text!
Perhaps off topic, but, I'll leave you with one last funny story, I know you're thinking *here we go again bro*...
My corpies were offline, and I was bored so I did my usual system circuit, not once, twice, or even a third time (yes ok i was BORED).. it was the fourth circuit in my little Augoror, just flying system to system watching local.. some folks bumped me a " o/ " and i politely returned the gesture.. but i was soon going to call it a night, when i came across someone appearing to be ransoming some guy with an unpronounceable name.. I watched with some amusement, the increasing tension, and saw whoever was ransoming asking for 1bn isk. ofc this perked my ears up and I suddenly got interested.. Why they were doing this in local i have no idea, my only guess it started as local rage, and it just defaulted to local in some form of adrenaline blindness maybe, fairly quiet system only 4 people in local inc me... Anyway i messaged the dude, and he raged at me- i said omg bro, calm it. what's going down... he told me he was missioning and a new corpie joined him, and tackled him, capped him to zero cap, and eating his armour. Sounded like a perfect Awox to me. told him to inv me, which he did immediately, and i warped in.
Nice sight. Paladin, dead in middle of nowhere, with a cruiser orbiting gracefully, with lots of flashy lightening bolts and whatnot flickering between the two. I locked him up, saw him about 80% in armour and casually punched F1 F2 F3; hit him with 2x large armour reppers, and a fist full of cap.. Quite interesting to see a dead Paladin suddenly bask in the renewed capacitor charge, and light up like a bulb: reppers came online, hardeners came online, pulse lazers lit up, armour very very quickly back to full health.. the awoxer turned on his heel - private messaged me with something short like " f**k tard..... " and was suddenly gone.
Wish I had screen shot it, but i guess too caught up in the moment - his reply was priceless.. something long the lines of.. "omg holy sh*t mother f***cker, you are ONE AWSOME f**cking dude f**cker, OMFG. F**K." my only reply was "lol think you need to dock up and get yourself a proverbial drink".. his reply "S**T, no f***ing kidding, F*CK thanks again man"... PLUS a whole boat load more of profanity..... actually I think the profanity hit a record level. TBH, the profanity with a rescue is actually more hilarious and intense than just ganking someone. Forget gank tears, this stuff is just pure comedy!
Think he was grateful!? He later threw 200m isk at me as thanks, and later admitted he was flying a 2bn + isk ship. Still swearing like a trooper, but I think it was good swearing lol...
Amazing what you can do with a small logistics ship in this game.
I'll stop boring everyone now, sure you're all yawning
Anyway on topic, TLDR...
Thanks for everyones input and encouragement, and some super suggestions. Possible refinement and research on a deployable emergency buoy or something that you can warp to, similar to a cyno beacon.
Cheers for reading!!! |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7909
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Posted - 2014.07.15 10:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
You can just have them join your fleet so you can warp to them. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Eminito
Deep Space 10 Mining
8
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Posted - 2014.07.15 10:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
FireFrenzy wrote:Grats man, thats the sort of cool emergent gameplay i like to see... Lemme know if you guys take ride-alongs i might hit you up next time i'm in highsec... I can either bring a buttload of DPS or any-non scimitar logi...
The warp too seems a bit wonky for reasons given above but i feel something like this is something that has the potential to be awesome gameplay...
Sorry FireFrenzy, neglected to reply.
I haven't been on a lot lately due to work commitments, and my slacker corpies have been AWOL as well. I can ping you in game with my main, but I fear it's mostly dull roaming about in highsec.. don't want to bore you if you're in NULL - you just occasionally get that nugget of priceless hilarity that my stories capture - tell you what if I / we are out and there's a lot of action happening I'll ping you! More the merrier always! |
Julius Rigel
181
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Posted - 2014.07.15 11:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Eminito wrote:So it inspired me to ask this in ideas forum. Great story, and I commend you for getting together to actually do something interesting and player-driven rather than churning rats in a mission or whatever. You're my kind of guys!
However...
Eminito wrote:What do folks think about being able to 'warp to' anyone with a criminal flag. What I'm intending is to add further emergent policing game play. I'm sorry, I completely disagree. I think you misunderstand what "emergent" means, as this is the exact opposite of emergence. "Emergent", as the sound of the word implies, means gameplay which naturally emerges from the circumstances of players interacting with the game rules in unpredicted ways.
What you are doing already is emergent gameplay - a freighter is being ganked, it's something that's happening in the game, perhaps there's an opportunity for us to do something about it? Well, we have remote reps, they could potentially be used on a freighter, right? And thus emergent gameplay is born, and it is beautiful, and it is you.
But what you are proposing is the polar opposite - you are proposing to take the game rules (criminal flagging) which are already tool-oriented (designed like a hammer - a blunt object, the shape of which does not dictate that it must be used to hammer nails into wood, and only nails into wood, but simply suggests that it might be useful for hitting stuff. You could just as easily turn the hammer around and lodge it under something to use it as a lever, or tie a rope to it and use it as a counter-weight for hoisting something up to the top of a ladder.) and put a more result-oriented mechanism (like a mold - you pour stuff in, it comes out a certain shape. Pour other stuff in, it comes out the same shape, but a different color).
Your idea is like saying "hey! Over here! Gameplay is happening, and this is the way in which you are supposed to participate!", rather than letting it happen in an emergent fashion.
I think this is a case of "every problem can be solved with more player involvement, not less". Have one of your crew jump in an interceptor to scout ahead, spread out and put smaller groups of reppers in hot-spots, so that they can buy time for the rest of the fleet to warp in when it goes down, and so on. In fact, a beacon would be completely unecessary if you could teach freighter pilots to contact you, or simply broadcast their location in local. It should be just as effective, considering this is something that most often takes place near a celestial, right?
I think your activities are great, but why ruin their emergence by making them into a feature? Do YOU like to undock? |
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
30
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Posted - 2014.07.15 11:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
so being a sandbox do the gankers get anything to counter this sort of idea as it seems people just want to push criminal activity further and further away from the game, remember this is some peoples career and make a living from it, can gankers have the option to evade concord if they finish the gank before concord arrive at the crime scene, can concord automatic warp disruption be removed so gankers have more chance to get away? sounds like your just wanting an easier way to get easy kills and ***** on concords killmails |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7911
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 12:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
Eminito wrote:Aye, you're right the fleet up thing is the only option at the moment. Unfortunately ganks and possible rescue encounters happen so quickly, and even being in the right system is a miracle, let along being there at the right time as well.
The beacon thing (nearly said bacon there)... would circumvent a load of time consuming hoops to jump through before you can get on grid to where stuff is going down. I think that's the ultimate purpose of the discussion here.. somehow there must be a way that something can be implemented, whilst still being balanced.
Lots of really great ideas floating around.
If you study us for a while, it's actually pretty easy to see a suicide gank coming. Just get more proactive with the scouting.
In fact, the really slick thing to do would be to start picking out potential gank targets yourself. Set a scout or two up a few jumps from a chokepoint system, and start cargo scanning freighters to see who might be a juicy target.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Eminito
Deep Space 10 Mining
8
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Posted - 2014.07.15 13:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lunch break!
Lan Wang, and Kaarous Aldurald.
Saluted.
I'd rather not CCP consider making any changes that are too OP or break anyones game play.. I'm with you.
Kaarous, not sure if you insinuated that your group is one of them naughty lot :) Interesting idea about the 'find a likely gank target'.. Might need a passive module, or they'll think I am up to no good lol. I'll see if I can fit the gank-cap on and think like a ganker for a while and just check suitable targets and get a feel for what's what!
Lan, (might as well reply to both concerns whilst I'm here).. I dont want to break your game play deliberately (or gankers for that matter) if that's where your living comes from. My philosophy is that of respect, and occasionally i'll end up in the right place at the right time, and most likely receive some punches myself.. I am using a forum alt so as to not spoil the fun lol. I think the victims of ganks should have 'something' (i still have no idea what), something to enable distress calls for help. Gankers could hilariously signal distress beacons at various safe spots during a gank, so goodie-two-shoes like me have no idea which way to go.. It's sort of false breadcrumbs, which provides further emergent metagaming
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Amarisen Gream
Galactic Republic of Entrepreneurs and Militiamen
38
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Posted - 2014.07.15 14:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
This would be something fun to have - - - I would just limit it to Hi-sec, then figure out the rest of the balance issues.
Anyone that gets ganked just isn't paying attention or just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Unless your in Null or Low-sec. Than you are just asking to be shot by someone.
Plus, if care bears started fleeting up instead of solo playing in Hi-sec, they would/could limit the amount of ganker activity toward them...
On that note, if anyone wants to fleet up in Gallente Space, let me know. xoxo Amarisen Gream http://thegreameve.wordpress.com -Looking to improve the player experience-
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suid0
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
134
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Posted - 2014.07.15 14:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nice idea for a different career to persue in eve & a great story but I'd vote no for the turning criminally flagged players into beacons.
Given most ganks happen on gates it sounds like you all just need some cloaky eyes/scouts, otherwise it just makes it too easy the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones -á--áCommander Ted |
Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
496
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Posted - 2014.07.15 16:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
Warp to is far too easy to abuse, and it would mostly be abused against people trying to defend themselves. Self-defeating purpose.
I thought about just making suspect and criminal status appear in D-scan, but that has implications outside of high sec which wouldn't end well for anyone either if there wasn't a balance.
There are a lot of ships, however, with utility high slots that get left empty a lot. If a "CONCORD Criminal tracking relay" high slot module were made that allowed people in high and low sec to see the criminal status of ships in their D-scan I think that would be acceptable. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |
Saisin
State War Academy Caldari State
96
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Posted - 2014.07.15 16:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
After thinking more about this, the idea of a mayday deployable sounds really interesting. - could not be launched from noobships,or frigate size ships. - would activAte in a few seconds once launched unless there is another mayday beacon active in system, or unless the character has activated another such beacon in the past 24 hours or the character launching it is currently flagged as criminal. - once activated, would create a beacon on grid for all to see in system - It should have as much hp as a small bubble - It would destroy itself when the launching ship is destroyed, leaves grid or cloaks. - It would be easy to produce - when activated, A notification would be sent to all pilots within x jumps of the system that have a positive sec status and are not currently at war with the owner, or criminal or suspect and would indicate the system name and the character name linked. - every player could opt out of receiving mayday notifications individually. "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/2014/05/ok-now-im-betting-man.html |
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
32
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Posted - 2014.07.15 17:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
It just creates another advantage for carebears |
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
32
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Posted - 2014.07.15 17:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
You would also have to extend the concord timer if the beacon was going to be more than 1 jump as i dont think anyone not in current system would get to it in time meaning the whole thing is pointless, probably better just offering escort services to haulers |
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
102
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Posted - 2014.07.15 20:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:It just creates another advantage for carebears
meant to address hisec, low/null should be in a different context for something like this.
not really, ganks typically go down in under 30 seconds so a beacon would just be a "Come Loot Me" sign, the only risk would be for ninja looting of the cargo.
As a different and maybe more manageable version, add an option to the safety setting that states "FLAG AS POLICE" The person or fleet would then be elligible to recieve navigational beacons within system to respond to criminal activity. the beacons themselves would appear as just numbers IE: 2 vs 1 first number bieng the agressor(s), second the defender(s)
benefits of flagging as police:
In system notification of criminal (not suspect) activity support fire from gate/station guns support of navy ships if already present
negative effects:
No concord response if agressed automatic overview demarcation as police
something like this would encourage policing and also give more opportunities for pvp to occurr in hisec. |
Llyona
Lazerhawks
66
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Posted - 2014.07.15 22:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:It just creates another advantage for carebears
So wait, doing criminal acts in high-security space would become more difficult? What a strange concept! EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure. |
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