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Logon traps, its legal and it`s official

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Day Dream	Posted - 2006.06.30 11:51:00 - [31] Originally by: Evil Thug So, you are using this exploit, to avoid freighters killed, right ? How would mass logins help prevent freighters getting killed? Originally by: Evil Thug Just like deploying outposts in 8 hours, instead of 24 Originally by: Evil Thug or get 250 ppl at gate, with launched drones, waiting for enemy to jump in I'm guessing you mean ASCN in those E3 engagements recently? Got any screenshots? Originally by: Jenny Spitfire IMHO, cant be avoided much because it is a server-client session loading issue. Could be optimised by preloading players then mark them active. Other problem will appear because this though. Thats the point and the problem... currently nothing you can do about it, nothing at all bringing more pilots will do (except make the situation worse).
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.30 11:55:00 - [32] Originally by: Day Dream Originally by: Jenny Spitfire IMHO, cant be avoided much because it is a server-client session loading issue. Could be optimised by preloading players then mark them active. Other problem will appear because this though. Thats the point and the problem... currently nothing you can do about it, nothing at all bringing more pilots will do (except make the situation worse). You can do something about it. More pilots means more loading lag. Loading lag means whoever is unlucky gets killed. The more you have, the more chances lag will be on your side. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Day Dream	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:11:00 - [33] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire You can do something about it. More pilots means more loading lag. Loading lag means whoever is unlucky gets killed. The more you have, the more chances lag will be on your side. Lag is the bane of eve. This issue is too big and too potent to be resolved by "fighting over the lag"...
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:13:00 - [34] There'sve been relatively easy to implement suggestions to deal with the usefullness of logon 'tactics'. If it's not an exploit, I'd like CCP to at least tell us what they think of the ideas they've been handed. Old blog
Ilmonstre	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:15:00 - [35] Originally by: Blacklight 2004 called, they want their news back. you win this thread
Rexthor Hammerfists	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:17:00 - [36] just give hte map an option to show how many pilots are logged off in an system for less then 5 days, or a week or at least 3days - problem solved without harming any1. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
Trinity Faetal	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:29:00 - [37] so ... i bet when RAT supposedly logged in to gank ur freighters you guys got so lagged the feck out that 75%+ of all you fleet got destroyed and multiple freighter pilots crashed due to heavy lag. thats an explanation . if you guys are not required to post all you kill/loss mails, why do u guys even bother posting it and why do u even bother have a killboard in the first place.
Miyamoto Shigesuke	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:34:00 - [38] I think the best solution would be that if someone logs in into space, he cannot target anything for 5 minutes. This should put an end to logon traps.
Ahule	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:34:00 - [39] Originally by: Kozak When you have 70+ people logon in system. It will take you a considerable amount of time to overcome the lag, by that time. It's too late. If you look at the rule, it stated anyone causeing intentional lag is commiting an exploit. Doesn't it mean that massive logons are exploits, or jettisoning vigils with 1000 of bookmarks at a POS also considered an exploit? Are u realyse that this 70+ ppl. who loging in, got the same lag and need 2-3minuts to login? And plz. stop talking crap about BMs and Vigils, fit a cargoscanner next time. PS. /me looking at this useless arconor processing skill that i have looted.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:36:00 - [40] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 30/06/2006 12:36:47 Originally by: Miyamoto Shigesuke I think the best solution would be that if someone logs in into space, he cannot target anything for 5 minutes. This should put an end to logon traps. Someone gets CTD in a mobile/hunt gang and gang is about to engage, what will happen to him/her? ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Ras Blumin	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:38:00 - [41] Originally by: Trinity Faetal if you guys are not required to post all you kill/loss mails, why do u guys even bother posting it and why do u even bother have a killboard in the first place. They get paid pr kill iirc. At least that was the "excuse" for having an inaccurate killboard in the past.
Aleika	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:38:00 - [42] Edited by: Aleika on 30/06/2006 12:38:24 ^^^ Alule is my alt. Signature Removed, Signature rules are 400x120 pixels and 24000bytes filesize. More here. - Eshtir
Trinity Faetal	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:39:00 - [43] Edited by: Trinity Faetal on 30/06/2006 12:39:26 oops
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:40:00 - [44] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 30/06/2006 12:36:47 Originally by: Miyamoto Shigesuke I think the best solution would be that if someone logs in into space, he cannot target anything for 5 minutes. This should put an end to logon traps. Someone gets CTD in a mobile/hunt gang and gang is about to engage, what will happen to him/her? Just limit the inability to shoot anything for a few minutes to people that log in after having been offline for more then 10 minutes. Problems solved. Old blog
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:43:00 - [45] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 30/06/2006 12:36:47 Originally by: Miyamoto Shigesuke I think the best solution would be that if someone logs in into space, he cannot target anything for 5 minutes. This should put an end to logon traps. Someone gets CTD in a mobile/hunt gang and gang is about to engage, what will happen to him/her? Just limit the inability to shoot anything for a few minutes to people that log in after having been offline for more then 10 minutes. Problems solved. And getting shot at? ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Farjung	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:45:00 - [46] Edited by: Farjung on 30/06/2006 12:45:59 Originally by: Rod Blaine There'sve been relatively easy to implement suggestions to deal with the usefullness of logon 'tactics'. If it's not an exploit, I'd like CCP to at least tell us what they think of the ideas they've been handed. The one I like the most is to add some sort of means of detecting how many people have logged off in a system in the last x hours. A map option would be good, but the map would need to be fixed from its rather broken state first. Alternatively some sort of additional scanner to covert ops/ceptors, because right now log on traps completely circumvent their roles as scouts. Not to get a precise location of where they logged off, but just to get an indication of how many people logged off in that particular system, in say the last 24 hours. There are "counters" to these atm, but not exactly viable - you need to know your opponents are in the habit of doing log-on traps, have a sizeable number of them in your addressbook, and hit up the location agents as soon as soon as you see mass log-offs. A lot of effort to catch an extremely lame tactic :\. --- Wave of Mutilation 2
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:46:00 - [47] Originally by: Farjung Originally by: Rod Blaine There'sve been relatively easy to implement suggestions to deal with the usefullness of logon 'tactics'. If it's not an exploit, I'd like CCP to at least tell us what they think of the ideas they've been handed. The one I like the most is to add some sort of means of detecting how many people have logged off in a system in the last x hours. A map option would be good, but the map would need to be fixed from its rather broken state first. Alternatively some sort of additional scanner to covert ops/ceptors, because right now log on traps completely circumvent their roles as scouts. There are "counters" to these atm, but not exactly viable - you need to know your opponents are in the habit of doing log-on traps, have a sizeable number of them in your addressbook, and hit up the location agents as soon as soon as you see mass log-offs. A lot of effort to catch an extremely lame tactic :\. Best counter to login tactics - Remove local. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Farjung	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:47:00 - [48] Edited by: Farjung on 30/06/2006 12:47:39 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Best counter to login tactics - Remove local. You're going to have to explain that one to me o_O --- Wave of Mutilation 2
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:49:00 - [49] Originally by: Farjung Edited by: Farjung on 30/06/2006 12:47:39 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Best counter to login tactics - Remove local. You're going to have to explain that one to me o_O Well if out of game communication is prohibited, removal of local will prevent login tactics. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Farjung	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:51:00 - [50] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Farjung Edited by: Farjung on 30/06/2006 12:47:39 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Best counter to login tactics - Remove local. You're going to have to explain that one to me o_O Well if out of game communication is prohibited, removal of local will prevent login tactics. Still not following you... How does one prohibit out of game communication? Ban people from using TS/Vent/IRC/MSN? That's not going to happen. --- Wave of Mutilation 2
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:54:00 - [51] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 30/06/2006 12:36:47 Originally by: Miyamoto Shigesuke I think the best solution would be that if someone logs in into space, he cannot target anything for 5 minutes. This should put an end to logon traps. Someone gets CTD in a mobile/hunt gang and gang is about to engage, what will happen to him/her? Just limit the inability to shoot anything for a few minutes to people that log in after having been offline for more then 10 minutes. Problems solved. And getting shot at? If you take more then 10% shield damage the timer voids. Or take some othe rrandom number, just high enough to ensure that parking one alt online in system isn't enough to unlock your ganksquad. Old blog
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:56:00 - [52] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 30/06/2006 13:01:23 One method to prevent login exploits. It isnt 100% exploit safe but just a deterrent. This is for all in-space session, not station. 1. Any CTD, will warp players somewhere in space for 15 mins regardless of PvP timer. They can be searched by probes and killed when found. 2. Returning players from CTD within 15 mins will have 30% capacitor but all high slots online. 3. Returning players after 15 mins will have all high slots deactivated. Need to spend time activating them one by one. 4. Legal logging off in space. Find a SS, perform shutdown. High slots slowly offline through shutdown timer. Client exits after last high slot goes offline. Normal PvP timer applies to prevent cheats. 5. Returning players after legal logging off in space will have all high slots deactivated. Need to spend time activating them one by one. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.30 12:57:00 - [53] Originally by: Farjung Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Farjung Edited by: Farjung on 30/06/2006 12:47:39 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Best counter to login tactics - Remove local. You're going to have to explain that one to me o_O Well if out of game communication is prohibited, removal of local will prevent login tactics. Still not following you... How does one prohibit out of game communication? Ban people from using TS/Vent/IRC/MSN? That's not going to happen. That is why I said, on second thought, removing local may not be useful. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Farjung	Posted - 2006.06.30 13:02:00 - [54] Ah, missed the edit ;p --- Wave of Mutilation 2
Gripen	Posted - 2006.06.30 13:02:00 - [55] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Best counter to login tactics - Remove local. Signed. It is impossible to catch people who don't want to fight without login trap. No local - no way to avoid the fight.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.06.30 13:06:00 - [56] Originally by: Gripen Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Best counter to login tactics - Remove local. Signed. It is impossible to catch people who don't want to fight without login trap. No local - no way to avoid the fight. Impossible ? Hardly... Hard ? Maybe... Have you tried movign around and hiding yourself in system one jump off-route from for example an enemy freighter escort ? Then it comes down to having good timing, but it removes your apparent 'need' for a logontrap. Old blog
Jon Hawkes	Posted - 2006.06.30 13:07:00 - [57] Originally by: Gripen Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Best counter to login tactics - Remove local. Signed. It is impossible to catch people who don't want to fight without login trap. No local - no way to avoid the fight. Trouble is; no local leaves no way for pilots at the gate/station to spot the mass leap in local in time to even get the faster ships out of the way. All it takes is one alt scout, either cloaked or at a safespot in scanner range. I propose that anyone found using these tactics gets "I am a lame login trap user" permenantly etched into their bio in massive red font by the GMS for all to see!
Kilosher Silgen	Posted - 2006.06.30 13:10:00 - [58] Maybe if you are not docked when you log-on then you warp to a random spot in space upon logging in. So 200 people logging in will end up in 200 random spots. Also after logging in, there should be a delay while your ship gets a bearing on it's position before you can warp anywhere. This delay varies depending on how far away you are from any celestial object.
Gripen	Posted - 2006.06.30 13:13:00 - [59] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Gripen Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Best counter to login tactics - Remove local. Signed. It is impossible to catch people who don't want to fight without login trap. No local - no way to avoid the fight. Impossible ? Hardly... Hard ? Maybe... Have you tried movign around and hiding yourself in system one jump off-route from for example an enemy freighter escort ? Then it comes down to having good timing, but it removes your apparent 'need' for a logontrap. Oh, and no one notes 70 people blob on the map?
Jon Hawkes	Posted - 2006.06.30 13:13:00 - [60] Originally by: Kilosher Silgen Maybe if you are not docked when you log-on then you warp to a random spot in space upon logging in. So 200 people logging in will end up in 200 random spots. Also after logging in, there should be a delay while your ship gets a bearing on it's position before you can warp anywhere. This delay varies depending on how far away you are from any celestial object. Indeed, a very good and simple idea. The delay would only have to be 60 seconds or so - enough time for pilots in system to react to the trap, but not enough time for genuine pilots logging in to get scan probed.

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