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i'Pod
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Posted - 2006.07.01 12:25:00 -
[1]
I can only think of a very poor technobabble excuse for how the current system works.
Replace "skill book" with "skill memory". So the book is actually a piece of data that you are downloading aka training.
For humans skill doesn't come by reading books and not by augmenting with downloaded memory. If we suppose everyone were androids in Eve, then one might argue so.
So what should be done in Eve? No need to throw away the system, just a tiny change:
Knowledge + Experience system.
It sounds like a big change, but it actually isn't.
Buying a skill book will simply give a very basic skill almost immediately, like it now does. However there would be no leveling up of any kind. Instead for every day (24 hours), if you have done or started doing something in the game - would count as experience gain. The experience gain would go in relation to what advanced books you have.
The part I like about this change most is that it would simply kill all the silly skills that are no skills at all, but still allow the current system to stay pretty much intact behind the scenes. And books of the sillier skills that costs millions? They'd still be kept. However for new, future skills there would be more consideration of whether it makes sense to have a new skill book or have these experience based insights in how to optimally operate a system with less optimal user interface (replace system with...).
That implies that some advanced skills might come to you just with lot of experience doing stuff such in area such as science a lot, practically by playing the game a bit every day, doing something in particular area. No more changing the skill to learn next, instead just get some books and start doing stuff and you'll get better! This would unfortunately eliminate some silly skills that are better related to either increased experience or better systems than one based on reading a book. Please, now cry me a river arguments why the current system is so great and makes perfect sense. I know you want to!
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Speed Devil
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Posted - 2006.07.01 12:29:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Speed Devil on 01/07/2006 12:30:48
shut up and go play wow
the skillsystem is good as it is
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.07.01 13:17:00 -
[3]
something similar was actually implemented at the very start of eve, it got abused and exploited (ppl going afk and shooting an asteroid for hours to improve skills  )
they ditched it fast and nobody ever looked back
 Originally by: Oveur
This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.07.01 13:20:00 -
[4]
No.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
James Raven
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Posted - 2006.07.01 14:20:00 -
[5]
i'Pod
It sounds like you try to do a storyline type spin on things in assuming that people in Eve are fully human. If that's the case, then I suggest you go read some of the backstory chronicles and scientific articles on this site. They all point to the fact that humans can't interface with the pod technology that allows them to pilot the ships of Eve without certain, unnamed implants being installed into the nervous system of their body. So, in conclusion, your assumption that pilots in Eve are fully human is wrong, thus your entire post is irrelevant.
In the future, I would suggest at least reading a little bit about whatever you are trying to suggest changes to, before you actually make a post like this one. It might help in understanding some of the finer points of the topic.
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I stick to my word. If I say you can go, then you can go. I honor my word. So should you. |
Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.07.01 16:59:00 -
[6]
1) while a system for a game, based on combined passive(like EVE's) and Active(XP, or other use-relevant type thing) could theoretically work in a game just fine...
2) you simply can't implement such changes without it being the design of the game from the start. I mean look at what happened to SWG... some aspects of a game's design are locked in once it gets rolling into actual use... trying to change such dynamics, is stupid and will severely harm the game.
3) the way you have in mind isn't that great of a way to implement a hybrid system ANYWAY.IMO.
4) the current system isn't THAT bad. why not just figure that your character is gaining skill from doing something with it, as you play and don't play... or something like that. c'mon. suspension of disbeleif!
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Bubba Zenetti
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Posted - 2006.07.01 17:06:00 -
[7]
I think the idea is to prevent game slaves from gaining an advantage by playing 24x7.
Getting the skill points is only half the battle, you still need to learn to fly your ship and be part of a team. The XP you get is applied to your own brain.
I've seen Ebay BS pilots really suck and be useless. I've seen frigate pilots with some PvP experience largely responsible for the kills the squad got since they both tackled the prey, and stayed alive while doing it.
So, in a way, the system you talk of is already in place You just don't get a number to show for it unless you post your kills on a killboard. This XP definitely helps your pilot abilities.
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i'Pod
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Posted - 2006.07.01 19:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tiuwaz
something similar was actually implemented at the very start of eve, it got abused and exploited (ppl going afk and shooting an asteroid for hours to improve skills )
they ditched it fast and nobody ever looked back
Did you read the post?
It would not matter whether you used/did something every second. Only one time per day (24 hours) would be counted.
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Caldorous
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Posted - 2006.07.01 20:00:00 -
[9]
aww c'mon, this sistem is okay, this works like in matrix, just only slower 
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Angry Sheep
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Posted - 2006.07.01 22:11:00 -
[10]
True - it used to be implemented in the early eve. I used to get hull upgrade skill points when being shot at in an indie collecting loot - nice
but people abused it with macros etc and so now no grind, no problem from me with that
It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
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Mudkest
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Posted - 2006.07.01 22:18:00 -
[11]
go play just about any other mmorpg if you want to grind, I enjoy eve for the fact that I dont need to grind for skills.
- It is much more efficient to talk to yourself in person than via the chat system.
Now imagine the unimaginable |
Ciella
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Posted - 2006.07.02 12:43:00 -
[12]
Originally by: i'Pod
Originally by: Tiuwaz
something similar was actually implemented at the very start of eve, it got abused and exploited (ppl going afk and shooting an asteroid for hours to improve skills )
they ditched it fast and nobody ever looked back
Did you read the post?
It would not matter whether you used/did something every second. Only one time per day (24 hours) would be counted.
1) Log on.
2) Perform every action for which you have a skill.
3) Log off.
4) Repeat every 24h ad nauseum.
5) ???
6) Profit!
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Stephen HB
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Posted - 2006.07.02 12:44:00 -
[13]
^^Me
Blasted alts.
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Signature core stabiliser II activated. This sig is immune to mod tampering! Rawr!
EVE Tracking Guide |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.07.02 14:32:00 -
[14]
Originally by: i'Pod
Please, now cry me a river arguments why the current system is so great and makes perfect sense. I know you want to!
I don't have to
I just have to laugh and point at your idea and say "it will never happen"
Who says it has to make sense anyway? You are flying in a spaceship in an egg with a tube up your arse. Does that make sense?
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Istvan F
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Posted - 2006.07.02 16:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Who says it has to make sense anyway? You are flying in a spaceship in an egg with a tube up your arse. Does that make sense?
Hmm, I always had a funny feeling when I logon to EVE. That explains it.
And I'm never telling the wife the details revealed above... 
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Zhaine
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Posted - 2006.07.02 20:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Who says it has to make sense anyway? You are flying in a spaceship in an egg with a tube up your arse. Does that make sense?
HELL YES!
Ahem. . .
- - - - - - - - - -
Quote:
I don't even want a ship, ships are for carebears. Give me a fish bowl for my head (to keep space out) and smear me with lard, then armed with a toasting fork-
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Zhaine
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Posted - 2006.07.02 20:58:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Who says it has to make sense anyway? You are flying in a spaceship in an egg with a tube up your arse. Does that make sense?
HELL YES!
Ahem. . .
- - - - - - - - - -
Quote:
I don't even want a ship, ships are for carebears. Give me a fish bowl for my head (to keep space out) and smear me with lard, then armed with a toasting fork-
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Shinzann
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Posted - 2006.07.02 22:44:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Who says it has to make sense anyway? You are flying in a spaceship in an egg with a tube up your arse. Does that make sense?
As for changing EVE into an XP grind? No. Like the other fellow, not having to grind is the biggest thing I like about EVE. |
Dethuss
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Posted - 2006.07.03 00:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
No.
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F'nog
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Posted - 2006.07.03 06:08:00 -
[20]
Zhaine, you *****. All I need is goose fat and a spork. Real men hold their breath.
Originally by: Panzer Goddess
I podded wrangler, and all I got was this lousy forumban.
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Ralitge boyter
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Posted - 2006.07.03 08:39:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Ralitge boyter on 03/07/2006 08:39:19
Originally by: i'Pod
Originally by: Tiuwaz
something similar was actually implemented at the very start of eve, it got abused and exploited (ppl going afk and shooting an asteroid for hours to improve skills )
they ditched it fast and nobody ever looked back
Did you read the post?
It would not matter whether you used/did something every second. Only one time per day (24 hours) would be counted.
So what you would like to see is every player when he/she logs in having to go thru a mandatory run of all tasks as not doing so would put others at an advantage. 
I know it would be great when ever you have an hour to play all you can do is just repeat the same thign you did yesterday, and the day before and before....
Nope not a good plan this is not WoW and this is not a game where you will gain fast. We have all trained for a long time and we will all continue to train for a long long long time...
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Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me. |
MagicPussyCat
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Posted - 2006.07.03 09:44:00 -
[22]
The game's 3 years old, and you want to change it now?
Furthermore, searching for your name in EVE reveals you've been playing for 8 days.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.07.03 10:31:00 -
[23]
Technobabble comes after good gameplay system.... And FYI, my head is like 50% electronics. So your whole argument is irrelevant.
And since that tube was put in on request... yes it makes perfect sense. ;-D
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Rashmika Clavain
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Posted - 2006.07.03 13:05:00 -
[24]
I love it as it is... if they changed it to a grind then the results would be awful.
Someone already mentioned what happened to SWG 
Lern to play! As the saying goes.
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Zaphoniggan
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Posted - 2006.07.03 16:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
No.
QFT
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I refuse to use a sig until my avatar is up.
Wait, this is a sig.... |
Kai Jyokoroi
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Posted - 2006.07.03 17:48:00 -
[26]
To use a famous quote -
"Dude, WoW is  way"
WORST IDEA EVER.
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The day I receive my first moderator forum-sig hijack is the day I realise I have won Eve.
Stain Alliance diplomat
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lou rhodes
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Posted - 2006.07.03 21:06:00 -
[27]
furthermore the system, thats in place now, makes sense...
just like irl... u read a book about surgery, u know how to perform theoretically, altho u need experience to know how to use it...
as some1 mentioned
same with EVE... what good can a BS skill do if u dont know how to fly it properly ? takes a while to master every skill...
u need to learn how to fly (orbiting, transversal speed etc.)
how to shoot (whom first, what ammo and so on)
how to use modules (for how long and when... mwds, tank)
how to mine (what minerals, how long jet cans last, how to anchor and so on)
i won't write any more examples
without that practical knowledge... well... u wont do much in EVE
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Eris Davion
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Posted - 2006.07.04 05:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: i'Pod
For humans skill doesn't come by reading books and not by augmenting with downloaded memory. If we suppose everyone were androids in Eve, then one might argue so.
All pod pilots are at least somewhat cybernetic, which IMO is a 'close enough' to androids for this purpose. Also, buying the books and downloading the memory is only the first step - enough to gain you rank 1 in the skill. Ranks 2 through 5 develop through directed subconscious study and application of the skills (hidden assumption: the character spends at least some portion of the learning time either using the skill or observing others do so.)
Quote:
The part I like about this change most is that it would simply kill all the silly skills that are no skills at all,
I'm curious, which skills in particular are you referring to?
Quote:
Please, now cry me a river arguments why the current system is so great and makes perfect sense. I know you want to!
The only crying I'll do is over folks who like to criticize systems with only a quarter of a clue regarding the concepts behind it. No offence.
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Auren I'del
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Posted - 2006.07.04 08:58:00 -
[29]
I have seen a lot of posts by new members that are not happy about the skill system. It's really sad actually. Some dont like that there are no cap, no level 60 that they can reach and thats it.
Some hate the idea of never get as many SP as the vet's and feel that they will never be as good as them.
Other just want to change it so that they can be insta good in everything.
First of all. The game has been around for about three years now. Changing anything as big as the skill system is out of the fu**ing question! It just wont happend. Any change to the skill system like the "experience"-theory you have will be a HUGE change. The skill system like it is today is what we got. The choice of how it was gonna be was made then and it's not something that can be changed now. If new members dont like it you can play another game.
What you need to realize is that skills just give you the ability to do and use certain stuff. Thats all! You need to wait a bit before you can use some stuff but that goes for all of us.
All the crying about "I can never gank a vet" just tell me that you have never understood how the game works.
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Kery Nysell
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Posted - 2006.07.04 09:36:00 -
[30]
Skillbooks is a name given by the players, CCP named those "skill packs" ... and in the backstory, we can learn that our characters download those packs in their cybernetic memory, the training time being the time needed for all those infos to be compiled ...
The idea of the OP reminds me of the "power hour" in UO, when every one logged each of his 5 characters for one hour each, just because during that hour you were able to earn more skill points in the skills you used ... grindgrindgrindgrind ... that was 5 years ago, and it failed miserably ...
One of the best things with eVe is that you DON'T have to grind, your character progresses even if you're not logged on ... it's the only MMO that does that, and it's a GOOD thing ... I've been playing MMOs at least 4 hours per day since 1998, grinding is THE thing that kills games ...
When a game becomes a "second job", all the fun is gone ... and we don't want that, do we ?
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