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Level 2 Battleships still unbalanced...

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Raven DeBlade	Posted - 2003.09.30 13:21:00 - [1] Edited by: Raven DeBlade on 30/09/2003 13:59:25 Or should i say 1 ship is far to weak... The Raven. Apocalypse 500/15000 8/4/7 - 8 Turr/2 Launch Megathron 550/12000 8/4/7 - 7 Turr/2 Launch Tempest 550/12500 8/5/6 - 6 Turr / 4 Laucnhers Raven 600/10000 8/6/5 - 4 Turr / 6 Launch Raven have 50 more cpu, but 2000 less core than the closest, and only 4 turrets. Its also the slowest with 105m/sek speed. Balanced... no, not even close. "To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees" "Any statements made above this line are my persona"
StoreSlem	Posted - 2003.09.30 13:57:00 - [2] The Raven actually has 6 missile launchers.
Raven DeBlade	Posted - 2003.09.30 13:59:00 - [3] Yes sorry... "To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees" "Any statements made above this line are my persona"
Reil Shashanna	Posted - 2003.09.30 15:26:00 - [4] Those 6 mid slots more than make up for its deficiencies in other areas
Novo DuPont	Posted - 2003.09.30 15:45:00 - [5] Edited by: Novo DuPont on 30/09/2003 15:47:01 yea and dont forget that all those BS's can use 6 hvy drones while mega can only use 10 .... if any ship is unbalanced it is the mega since 4 extra hvy drones dont even come CLOSE to having a extra slot in either low, med or high. They need to either allow more turrets, launchers add another med slot or increase the powergrid/cpu (that or hack the drone bay space for all other BS's down to 750). The ship that has the best balance atm in lvl 2 BS is the Tempest. It has just enough of everything to make it usable for just about any role. "To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
hellwarrior	Posted - 2003.09.30 15:54:00 - [6] Raven is awesome, what r u talking about ? :D Last nite i watched an apoc / raven fight intil mid armor (same corp). The apoc had a superior shooting range with guns cause the guy on the raven was using cruiser guns :/. But once his missiles hit he drained the apoc of his shields in like 10 seconds :O If the apoc hadn't warped out, he woulda lost his ship most likely.(and he was using defenders)
Novo DuPont	Posted - 2003.09.30 15:55:00 - [7] Ohh and if you didnt notice the siege launchers only use 1000 power grid so even without enginneering skill that still leaves 4000 power grid if you have 6 siege launchers on it. With lvl 4 enginneering that gives you about 6000 left over. Enough to put 2 425 mm rails in the last two slots left. Someone shooting 6 cruiser missiles or 6 torps at you along with 2 425 mm rails at ranges of 40 km+ is not concidered weak or unbalanced, specially when they can run 6 med slot devices as well and launch 6 hvy drones at you. If any ship needs to be nerfed its the Raven. "To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.09.30 16:07:00 - [8] Quote: Ohh and if you didnt notice the siege launchers only use 1000 power grid so even without enginneering skill that still leaves 4000 power grid if you have 6 siege launchers on it. With lvl 4 enginneering that gives you about 6000 left over. Enough to put 2 425 mm rails in the last two slots left. Someone shooting 6 cruiser missiles or 6 torps at you along with 2 425 mm rails at ranges of 40 km+ is not concidered weak or unbalanced, specially when they can run 6 med slot devices as well and launch 6 hvy drones at you. If any ship needs to be nerfed its the Raven. Before a Raven pilot comes squawking in to peck out your eyes, the Siege Launchers take a goodly sized amount of CPU. Fitting 6 requires cpu enhancers and a lot of eletronics skill. They are the equivalent of 1400mm and Tachyons when it comes to trying to squeeze them on a ship. But then again, if the Raven pilot goes for balance instead of stupidity (ie: 2-3 siege launchers and heavy launchers in the rest), they'll have a ton of configuration options left. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
SOHAIL	Posted - 2003.09.30 19:42:00 - [9] CCP need to give Raven some Speed and Dam bonus since we got low turrets. "We'll show them what FIREPOWER is all about"
Dragon Emperor	Posted - 2003.09.30 20:51:00 - [10] Caldari BSs are the BEST BSs, BUFF THE BEST IS NON-SENSE. and If caldari BS pilot can do even close turret dmg as other BS pilot, THEN THE GAME IS UNPLAYABLE.
Presidio	Posted - 2003.10.01 02:23:00 - [11] No offence but... I don't see why raven needs to be faster? It relies heavily on missiles (optimal range doesn't matter). It has the longest locking range. If any ship needs to be the slowest than the Raven is the right choice. If the speed is the issue here, add an afterburner to that medium slot you have - "Passivity is fatal to us. Our goal is to make the enemy passive." Mao Tse-tung
Blacklight	Posted - 2003.10.01 02:32:00 - [12] Buff the raven? I don't think so, any ship that can in the hands of a competent player take down an Apoc one for one every time is not in need of a buff! It's got 6 med slots for goodness sake, they more than make up for it's other weakness! Balance = positives + negatives, not just all positives! Eve Blacklight Style
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2003.10.01 02:37:00 - [13] Edited by: Jim Raynor on 01/10/2003 02:38:19 Raven needs 50-75 more cpu and a small boost in speed to 110-115m/s. Other than that the ship is fine.. it's a very powerful ship and doesn't need a huge powercore. I find it fairly difficult to fit many seige launchers on a Raven and it's kind of annoying because I think it is the launcher the Raven should be using but I have to use h-50 arbalests instead due to CPU issues after fitting 3 seige launchers. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Raven DeBlade	Posted - 2003.10.01 20:10:00 - [14] Edited by: Raven DeBlade on 01/10/2003 20:10:22 Yes it needs a 50-75 CPU and 1500 Core and 2 more turret slots. "To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees" "Any statements made above this line are my persona"
SS Vegito	Posted - 2003.10.01 20:28:00 - [15] Naw powers fine. I dont really care if Id get 2 more turrets or not either. 50 cpu would be great and solve my problems hough :)
SOHAIL	Posted - 2003.10.02 03:12:00 - [16] Quote: Caldari BSs are the BEST BSs, BUFF THE BEST IS NON-SENSE. and If caldari BS pilot can do even close turret dmg as other BS pilot, THEN THE GAME IS UNPLAYABLE. Dont think so, Hybrids are supposed to be the best weapon type in EVE but atm they are wrost them any other weapon type, Hybrids got poor Tracking , poor damage........ Caldari need some CCPs attention. - Amy- "We'll show them what FIREPOWER is all about"
Sphalerite	Posted - 2003.10.02 05:43:00 - [17] Quote: Caldari BSs are the BEST BSs, BUFF THE BEST IS NON-SENSE. and If caldari BS pilot can do even close turret dmg as other BS pilot, THEN THE GAME IS UNPLAYABLE. Wish shield hardners having been brought down to reasonable levels, The only thing you have to fear from a Caldari ship is EW. If people would just fit an ECCM or 2, they wouldn't have much to fear. Sitting in a Scorp, fighting another battleship you weren't able to jam is not a very comfortable position. The problem is that so many people would rather stack their damage that much higher, rather than "waste" a couple slots on EW defense. From this we get the idea that Caldari ships are unstoppable death machines needing a nerf.
ClawHammer III	Posted - 2003.10.02 06:15:00 - [18] Quote: Edited by: Jim Raynor on 01/10/2003 02:38:19 Raven needs 50-75 more cpu and a small boost in speed to 110-115m/s. Other than that the ship is fine.. it's a very powerful ship and doesn't need a huge powercore. I find it fairly difficult to fit many seige launchers on a Raven and it's kind of annoying because I think it is the launcher the Raven should be using but I have to use h-50 arbalests instead due to CPU issues after fitting 3 seige launchers. I find it difficult to fit 6 425mm railguns on a Dominix but you don't see me complaining. All battleships have dificulty using the maxiumum ammount of thier primary weapon except for maybe Minmatar ships... depending on what you conciter their primary weapon. I actualy prefer it this way beause battles on TQ are short enough as it is. I printed out stats of all the level 2 battleships and I honestly can't make up my mind which one is "the best" but I have been leaning towards the Raven and Tempest lately. Even so I can see situations where all the battleships excell in and I don't see any glaring ballance issues so I don't see any need to buff or nerf the Raven.
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.10.02 08:16:00 - [19] Edited by: DREAMWORKS on 02/10/2003 08:23:31 Quote: Edited by: Jim Raynor on 01/10/2003 02:38:19 Raven needs 50-75 more cpu and a small boost in speed to 110-115m/s. Other than that the ship is fine.. it's a very powerful ship and doesn't need a huge powercore. I find it fairly difficult to fit many seige launchers on a Raven and it's kind of annoying because I think it is the launcher the Raven should be using but I have to use h-50 arbalests instead due to CPU issues after fitting 3 seige launchers. Nah, like the apoc has to mix its weapons between tachyons, missle launchers and med lasers, the raven pilot has to mix his ship aswell... I see no problem in getting a good balanced setup for each ship. Soon ill get my raven, if i stop keep giving away money. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Abn Matar	Posted - 2003.10.02 09:35:00 - [20] Quote: Edited by: Raven DeBlade on 01/10/2003 20:10:22 Yes it needs a 50-75 CPU and 1500 Core and 2 more turret slots. So you want the raven to have 12 turret/missile hardpoints while everybody else has 7-10? i can accept the +50 cpu, but not the extra powercore, the caldari ships are supposed to have much cpu to the almost exclusive tasks as jamming and to be missile boats... oh no!
Severus Trajan	Posted - 2003.10.02 09:55:00 - [21] Quote: Hybrids are supposed to be the best weapon type in EVE Errr...really? Source please? I always thought the weapons were supposed to be different but of relatively equal power in the end.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2003.10.02 10:00:00 - [22] Edited by: Jim Raynor on 02/10/2003 10:02:31 Quote: I find it difficult to fit 6 425mm railguns on a Dominix but you don't see me complaining. Trust me you don't want to put 425mm Railguns on ANYTHING. They are by bar the worst large turret in the game. Quote: Errr...really? Source please? I always thought the weapons were supposed to be different but of relatively equal power in the end. Hybrids used to be the most powerful turrets in the game because they had all the weaknesses of other turrets (cap usage + ammo). Somewhere along the line CCP decided that blasters should suck so now we have 'powerful' guns with 1km optimal (thus useless) and railguns that are outranged by projectiles and lasers and can't even out damage a medium turret (thus useless). ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Lartfor	Posted - 2003.10.02 10:57:00 - [23] Quote: Trust me you don't want to put 425mm Railguns on ANYTHING. They are by bar the worst large turret in the game. Hybrids used to be the most powerful turrets in the game because they had all the weaknesses of other turrets (cap usage + ammo). Somewhere along the line CCP decided that blasters should suck so now we have 'powerful' guns with 1km optimal (thus useless) and railguns that are outranged by projectiles and lasers and can't even out damage a medium turret (thus useless). Maybee this should be what we work to fix, up the hybrid weapons, and i belive both Raven and Megathron will be greatly benefited.
ga'ia	Posted - 2003.10.02 13:56:00 - [24] what dont you just whine till you get a Eidolon!!! :/ ( http://omicron.mine.nu/tmp/eidolon.jpg ) __________________________________________________________
Caillech	Posted - 2003.10.08 03:42:00 - [25] wth is this about raven needing more CPU the idea behind the cpu values and whatever is that you're not supposed to be able to throw on the BEST things without having to make some sacrifices ... level2 bs are pretty much balanced ....get over it :o -------- Caillech Director of Sexual Healing 2003.08.22 16:18:53 ----- Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Small Secure Container, wrecking for 1102.9 damage
Caillech	Posted - 2003.10.08 03:42:00 - [26] wth is this about raven needing more CPU the idea behind the cpu values and whatever is that you're not supposed to be able to throw on the BEST things without having to make some sacrifices ... level2 bs are pretty much balanced ....get over it :o -------- Caillech Director of Sexual Healing 2003.08.22 16:18:53 ----- Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Small Secure Container, wrecking for 1102.9 damage
dalman	Posted - 2003.10.08 05:36:00 - [27] This about the CPU... It's about that the tier 1 Scorpion has 150 more CPU than the tier 2 Raven, and the Raven uses more CPU... M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Dragon Emperor	Posted - 2003.10.08 05:41:00 - [28] Quote: This about the CPU... It's about that the tier 1 Scorpion has 150 more CPU than the tier 2 Raven, and the Raven uses more CPU... scorpion is the best, and raven is the 2nd best battleship, and they both are caldari, buff any of them makes no sense.
dalman	Posted - 2003.10.08 05:53:00 - [29] Edited by: dalman on 08/10/2003 06:24:43 Quote: Quote: This about the CPU... It's about that the tier 1 Scorpion has 150 more CPU than the tier 2 Raven, and the Raven uses more CPU... scorpion is the best, and raven is the 2nd best battleship, and they both are caldari, buff any of them makes no sense. lol, if you don't carry any ECCM it's your fault, not the CCP's fault. Cause if you did, you'd beat the crap out of a Scorpion. And I rate both the Tempest and Apoc as better than the Raven. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Zinke	Posted - 2003.10.08 07:29:00 - [30] I would just like to point that Mega is not that good droen wise. I don't have all information right here but i am sure that Mega have 2500 drone space (Thorax have 2000 and is crusier). Dominix have 5000 drone space. Typhoon have 3500 drone space (and it also beats Mega). I know also that Tempest have 1500 drone space. I don't have info for Amarr and Caldari BSs. But you can see that in Gallente and Minmatar group Mega is actually on the 3rd place drone wise. So statement that Mega can have 10 heavy combat drones while other BSs can only have 6 is not true.
Worrlock	Posted - 2003.10.09 17:46:00 - [31] Edited by: Worrlock on 09/10/2003 17:50:16 Quote: Before a Raven pilot comes squawking in to peck out your eyes, the Siege Launchers take a goodly sized amount of CPU. Fitting 6 requires cpu enhancers and a lot of eletronics skill. They are the equivalent of 1400mm and Tachyons when it comes to trying to squeeze them on a ship. But then again, if the Raven pilot goes for balance instead of stupidity (ie: 2-3 siege launchers and heavy launchers in the rest), they'll have a ton of configuration options left. Heaven forbid you have to actually train skills up to get the best config. With lvl 2BS's it should be POSSIBLE to have the BEST Config. It would just require extremely high skills to get it. Now the ultimate config is ofcourse arguable but there is no way a Scorpion should be ranked by anyone as the #1 BS. Throw cost out the window, totally forget about it and pretend they are all free. Now if anyone says Scorp then it needs a nerf. A Scorps specifif role should be to EW other BS's. There is no way 1 BB should be able to EW a BS unless it went ALL EW. No booster, no hardeners, nothing. All lvl 2 Battleships base sensor strength needs to be raised to atleast 20. Other then that they are all fine. The Raven is perfect just the way it is. If the scorp has more CPU then the raven then the Scorp needs a CPU nerf. And all lvl 2 battleships should get another Medium slot. I don't think they all need one, but to make it fair give everyone one. ---------------------------------------------- When you die and die you will, you will die to the sound of applause.
Ukiah	Posted - 2003.10.09 19:49:00 - [32] My Megathron was recently patched from an 8-4-6 to an 8-4-7. You propose adding 1 more mid for every BS. That means my BS would then be an 8-5-7. Now, that would be SUPER cool for me, but I can there would be people who'd STILL feel like their BS is crap and mine is overbalanced.
dalman	Posted - 2003.10.09 20:06:00 - [33] Quote: But then again, if the Raven pilot goes for balance instead of stupidity (ie: 2-3 siege launchers and heavy launchers in the rest), they'll have a ton of configuration options left. Sorry to brake it for you, but you have NO CLUE what so ever. You "balance" is stupidity. Don't you understand that a raven has to fit the SAME TYPE OF LAUCHER IN ALL SLOTS? If you use launchers with different ROF you can't make a nice missile chain, and your missiles will blow up on each other long before they reach the target. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Silinary	Posted - 2003.10.09 23:36:00 - [34] Fireing rates of H-50's and S-110's are both 16. The only issue will be on getting the ship bonus to firing speed. Whether this will apply to only the S-110's or both. If it's only the S-110's, could possibly use arblast to get similar speed spread. You can do anything you set your mind to.
dalman	Posted - 2003.10.10 00:11:00 - [35] Quote: Fireing rates of H-50's and S-110's are both 16. The only issue will be on getting the ship bonus to firing speed. Whether this will apply to only the S-110's or both. If it's only the S-110's, could possibly use arblast to get similar speed spread. hehe, yea, but I want to see the guy that mount standard H-50 launchers on a battleship. However, you'd still get the problem when you have to reload them... M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
ClawHammer III	Posted - 2003.10.10 10:09:00 - [36] The Raven gets a bonus on all launchers so It's still possable to make missle chains if you use standard H-50s and S-110s

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