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Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1071
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Posted - 2014.07.26 03:29:00 -
[31] - Quote
a carebear is someone who does not wholly participate in Eve. Meaning if you sit there and rat all day, collecgt isk, and never do anything else with your time or isk, you are a carebear.
Eve really is total PVP.
Combat is PVP Industry is PVP (this includes mining if you actually do something with those materials rather than hoard them for eternity) Trading is PVP
You either play with everyone or go hardcore and play against everyone. Either way your actions impact others. Some who shoots red boxes for 4 years and does nothing else, does not impact the game.
A lot off players try to avoid PVP and get upset when it thrust upon them. They don't want anyone else to do anything to them ever. That is a carebear. |

stoicfaux
5226
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 03:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Quote:I want hundreds of story-lines going on between many more entities in the game. That's what we're trying to build with all the new features." Scarce resources, religion, politics. These are things that tend to lead to war or, at the very least, conflict.
As for the PvP crowd, EvE stands for Empire versus Empire. PvP has the relevance of cowboy western gunfights or random street crime in terms of historical significance.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12493
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 03:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
polly papercut wrote:
So you are implying that the carebears are not necessary to the economy what so ever? If we were to take and remove every carebear from the game the EVE economy would be as active and as diverse as it is now?
Yes it would.
They are few in numbers but loud with their mouths. They don't add anything to the game, they don't do anything of note, they refuse to adapt or use tools available to them, they create zero content and they are forever demanding that EVE be turned into yet another WoW clone.
CCP Seagull is saying lots of things that makes me happy for the future. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |

helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
45
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Posted - 2014.07.26 04:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
This is why we need a television news show in Captains Quarters with CCP Guard and CCP Punkturis as in character new anchors talking about
- sov battles and politics
- Hi sec content aka miner bumpin and frieghtor ganking
- low sec pirating
- wh pvp and exploration
- Eve industry
- how to find and join a player corp
CQ is the first thing new players see. Currently its pointless. Why not use it to educate players about the player vs player opputunites in eve ??
cause how else are they going to find out about anything but missioning and mining  "... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á| zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT ! |

Angeal MacNova
LankTech Masters of Flying Objects
125
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Posted - 2014.07.26 04:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tippia wrote:polly papercut wrote:So you are implying that the carebears are not necessary to the economy what so ever? No, I'm flat out stating it as a fact. They do not fill any unique and necessary function and could be excised wholly without any real adverse effect (wellGǪ maybe the forums would get a bit more boring, but that's about itGǪ and that's not part of the game economy anyway so it's rather besides the point). Anything and everything they do can be GÇö and already is GÇö done by non-carebears, commonly to a much greater effect, efficiency, and volume than the carebears can muster.
So what exactly are these "carebears" doing while logged in that would cause them NOT have any impact on the game world or game economy what-so-ever?
Also, can we get a clear definition of what "carebear" refers to? |

Bloody Slave
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 04:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:polly papercut wrote:
So you are implying that the carebears are not necessary to the economy what so ever? If we were to take and remove every carebear from the game the EVE economy would be as active and as diverse as it is now?
Yes it would. They are few in numbers but loud with their mouths. They don't add anything to the game, they don't do anything of note, they refuse to adapt or use tools available to them, they create zero content and they are forever demanding that EVE be turned into yet another WoW clone. CCP Seagull is saying lots of things that makes me happy for the future.
I disagree with that. Their tears are a valuable asset. Unfortunately, it seems that the community is not hitting them hard enough, err, I mean... giving them enough content and they come to complain on the forum blaming CCP when, in fact, it's our fault.
As example, I was siting in Osmon other day making some ship inspections, it was like 15 minutes and I swear I could see hundreds of billions leaving the station in shiny pinatas. I will not mention Incursions near Motsu tho... I was not using passive targeting and had some complains and bad words in local only because my inspection... ohh, the tears are awesome.

If your balls are hurt and bleeding don't sit in a pool full of piranhas (note to myself: don't complain in GD) |

Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
1124
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 04:52:00 -
[37] - Quote
polly papercut wrote:Tippia wrote: No-on particularly bitches about players who do any of those things. People ***** about carebears, who are wholly unnecessary for the economy and who keep refusing to accept the simple fact that the game is PvP through and through.
So you are implying that the carebears are not necessary to the economy what so ever? If we were to take and remove every carebear from the game the EVE economy would be as active and as diverse as it is now? Think hard about this one though in this case we can not convert carebears to PVPers we would have to think about the effect it would have on the economy if every carebear account was to be ban from EVE. What would happen with the loss of money to CCP? Plex would also become less desirable, Pure indy players would also be removed. Please give me a scenario with current game mechanics the way they are on how the economy would look with all these players gone from EVE. PVP does not generate ISK nor Does it generate ships. So again without changing any game mechanics draw me out the scenario with all carebears ban from EVE.
The game goes on, much as it does now, since sufficient hybrid players like myself exist (ie I'll happily shoot someone if they stand between me and the goodies in a relic), and class-substitution occurs anyway - ie BCs substitute for battleships, cruisers substitute for bc's etc, ie the average reship effort point will generally remain relevant.
All of these games are based on the original "muds" or multiuser dungeons. All of these games suffer from the same basic problem called mudflation. Mudflation is what happens when the userbase all get the endgame items and thus there is no value in collecting those items anymore. Blizzard resolve this by treadmilling the game, ie they replace all your items, and all the monsters with a new set of items and monsters that have no particular virtue other than being higher level than the ones you already had or already killed. That is extraordinairely expensive from a development perspective, forces players to pay for the same game again, and forces players to never graduate from the treadmill.
I can tell you having recently mined with (and boosted for) newbies (and not so newbies) in CAS nearly 4 freighter loads of minerals myself in a couple of weeks, that I've barely lost that many minerals in a whole career, and that if other people hadn't been losing those minerals for us, the mineral market would have been utterly trashed by 10 years of mining. ie EVEs method of resolving this issue (DESTRUCTION OF OBJECTS) is superior, because it doesn't require us to pay CCP to replace all the items that do x, y, or z, with the same items that have higher levels, an utterly pointless task.
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
255
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Posted - 2014.07.26 04:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
CCP: "Can you players, like, build our game for us? kthnx."
I still can't understand why EVE doesn't have a built-in EFT. With the myriad of choices and costs associated with fitting a ship, some of which are unforgiving/inflexible (rigs), you really need to play around and plan out your fits in this game before you commit to them. So if a new player wants to enjoy this game, at some point they need to be told, or figure out for themselves, that they need to download and learn to use some 3rd party program, and have it running along side EVE while they decide how to outfit their ship.
For a veteran player it is still annoying, having to import and export fits between programs, and deal with the inconsistencies between them. It would be great if some noob I'm helping links me their fit in game and I can quickly change the fit around in game and link it back to them.
At least we have in-game killmails now, I guess. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23344
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 07:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:It's the new features presented at Fanfest each year that brings in people. Not really, no, as demonstrated time and again over the years when fanfest has had very little impact on activity and population and heavily publicised events have created significant bumps. And if we look at patches, the GÇ£new featuresGÇ¥ that have had the biggest (positive) impacts on the population are the ones that aren't big and fancy and bring the house down at fanfest, but the myriad of details that just make the game better. So what do you base that claim on?
Quote:I talked to a few Dev's at the Hollywood E3 Meet a couple of months ago and they said that the main content engaged by the majority of the player base is PvE. GǪand? It still doesn't change the fact that carebears are wholly unnecessary for the economy.
Angeal MacNova wrote:So what exactly are these "carebears" doing while logged in that would cause them NOT have any impact on the game world or game economy what-so-ever? GǪbut that's not what I said, now was it? I said that they are wholly unnecessary and can be removed without ill effects.
Unezka Turigahl wrote:I still can't understand why EVE doesn't have a built-in EFT. Simple: because EFT (and pyfa) already exists so why should CCP waste dev time implementing an inferior copy of something the players have already honed to perfection? They've demonstrated with pretty much every built-in tool they've created that they're not quiiiiite in touch with what players are interested in knowing or doing, whereas the tools made by the players capture what the players actually want. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |

Serene Repose
1450
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 07:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
Consider EVE to be .... a work in progress. They'll get to it. (Whatever it "it" happens to BE.) I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á |
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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
1279
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 07:35:00 -
[41] - Quote
Hi again Poll-y ! Dont see a problem. Sounds more like modern corporate management like it is applied in many european countries now. The players are basicly the employees and get more rights to work for the benefit of their own company.
TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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Pheusia
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
123
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 07:43:00 -
[42] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote: It's the new features presented at Fanfest each year that brings in people. Due to CCP's in-ability to deliver what they promise causes players to leave. Not to mention all the buggy releases CCP constantly implements time and time again...
DMC
Fanfest is overwhelmingly aimed at existing players not new ones.
Can you give the most recent example of of CCP not delivering? If you're going to trot out Seagull's plan for nwe space and player built stargates she mentioned in 2013, I'd just like to remind you that that was explicitly described as a multi-year development goal.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10807
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 07:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Tippia wrote:polly papercut wrote:What are your thoughts on how to keep EVE growing and get new players to stay? More player-made content. After all, the community and its escapades are what brings people to the game and makes them stay these days. It's the new features presented at Fanfest each year that brings in people. That's mind-blowingly ********. Nobody ever says "hey this game I've never played has an upcoming patch that's adding **** to the game, so I think I'll try it!" They say "hey this game has this, so I think I'll try it!" No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10807
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 08:01:00 -
[44] - Quote
Zaxix wrote:I love how third-party tools are identified as a good thing. Name one reason they're not.
Zaxix wrote:They were developed because the game itself doesn't provide the tools necessary to play it. Name one third-party tool that's necessary to play EVE.
Zaxix wrote:Many of the tools will not be things that all players have access to in the first place. All of the tools give the player with the programming skills more "power" than the player who has none. That's not a good thing. Everyone has access to the majority of third-party tools. EVEMon, Dotlan EVE Maps, EFT, Pyfa, GARPA Topographical Survey, jEveAssets, and countless others are openly available for download as freeware. At this point it's pretty rare that one finds benefit from writing programs of their own.
I should also mention again, none of these are necessary to play the game.
Zaxix wrote:Thanks for the article link, OP. It's proof positive that CCP really is living in a fantasy land. CCP Seagull is an optimist for sure, but I've seen nothing from her that wasn't grounded in reality. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5151
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 08:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
Would have been nice if the "welcome" thread was a bit more positive. Imagine what an epic job that must be. Bring back DEEEEP Space! |

Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
702
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 09:14:00 -
[46] - Quote
Yeah this is gonna back fire epically.
This game is drowning in stuff that need to be done and in dire need of updating game elements.
Adding new on top of rotten i am not optimistic.
Anyway big game event was news for a week it brought in total of 0 or around that number of new players who stayed and next big one will do same ie nothing i am struggling to see where other 100 stories will come from in chronically neglected game,where funds are bleeding from failure to failure.
its not like that was mayor reason there was riots oh well short memory at least we have buffed galente and nerfed minmatar swapping places.
Ship rebalance No. who cares? maybe that will bring in ppl i bet that will.
Focus EVE develop EVE. http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
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Ria Nieyli
14394
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 09:24:00 -
[47] - Quote
This game is a themepark already, existing content has been graphed out to such extent by the playerbase over the years that there's little, if no potential left for innovating a gameplay aspect of the sandbox. Do not remove a fly from your friend's forehead with a hatchet.
- Ancient Chinese Proverb |

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3356
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 09:26:00 -
[48] - Quote
Tippia wrote:polly papercut wrote:What are your thoughts on how to keep EVE growing and get new players to stay? More player-made content. After all, the community and its escapades are what brings people to the game and makes them stay these days.
Yeah, the game needs to become a lot more dynamic. The structure of mechanics is way too rigid and does not encourage a rich natural social environment, which is the unique hallmark of Eve Online. I feel the developers need to strive towards making the game as natural (in virtual socio-economic terms) as possible. I feel limitations on resources and ISK faucets could help to create a more realistic environment for players. Oh god. |

Pheusia
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
123
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 09:39:00 -
[49] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:Yeah this is gonna back fire epically.
This game is drowning in stuff that need to be done and in dire need of updating game elements.
I mean I don't know if you've noticed, but CCP have hugely focused on that since Incarna. Starting with the expansion that came after Crucible, CCP have been working through updating one feature after another; Crimewatch, Faction Warfare, Exploration, and just recently, Industry.
And understand this: each of those updates involved mapping what the existing horrible, unmaintained, undocumented code did, tossing out that old code, and rewriting new, properly structured, modular, commented documented code to replace it. The great majority of that development effort is invisible to the players, but it pays off in the long term because it means that any work that CCP do afterwards that touches those features is hugely easier to develop.
That payoff has already started; each feature that gets reworked means that it's that much easier to map and rework the features that interconnect with it. That brings down the time required to produce the next update. That's why CCP were forced to leave the hardest jobs until last.
In effect, CCP have been metamorphosing EVE into EVE II one feature at a time. EVE has a lot of features; that's a massive project; it's taking time.
Seagull's reply about doing something with Sov this year shows that CCP are intensely aware of the problems in null. The plan presented had sov being fixed after the Structures and Corps & Alliances code had been reworked, because well, those are what sov is. Now that plan has been changed and suddenly we're getting work on sov over the next 4 months. That can only be because the EVE team has become aware that change in 0.0 is needed now.
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Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
48
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 10:18:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:This game is a themepark already, existing content has been graphed out to such extent by the playerbase over the years that there's little to no potential left for innovating a gameplay aspect of the sandbox.
This^^
Hundreds of stories? they are all the same. X joins a corp, X betrays corp by Awoxing, feeding information or simply being a douche.
Player driven content? This is just the buzz-phrase excuse for ganking and scamming. Ganking IS part of EvE but to dress it up as actual content is just polishing a turd.
This whole post by the new boss simply smells of the usual marketing spin to disguise the implication that they have run out of ideas and want the players to do the job for them.
Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them. |
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Spurty
V0LTA Triumvirate.
1370
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 11:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
Hiply Rustic wrote:"Currently we have two big power blocks that are kind of locked in a struggle. I want hundreds of story-lines going on between many more entities in the game. That's what we're trying to build with all the new features." - Andie Nordgren via this article at polygonSo, opening the API to additional data sources and looking for more 3rd party tools is going to do that? Really? Do tell...
Not following your logic here.
Why would API stuff do anything? You might as well have said "Today I'm going to walk around the town center with a fish on my head saying 'Beebale Beebale". Now, here, look at what is coming up:
- New player made gates - New ships - Corp and alliance redesigns
None of the above is a golden bullet on paper (as we don't have a clue what it will look like), but if it comes with 'standings now cost 1mill an hour. If your corp wallet is empty, ALL standings are reset immediately. Alliance standings take precedence over Corp standings. Corp standings take precedence over personal standings.'
Will you see 55k power blocks this time next year?
So, give the new Exec Producer some time to realize their vision. We are currently looking at the last person's production and see it resulted in willful compliance and stagnation. *signature is not allowed on the EVE Online forums* |

baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12494
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 11:20:00 -
[52] - Quote
Domina Trix wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:This game is a themepark already, existing content has been graphed out to such extent by the playerbase over the years that there's little to no potential left for innovating a gameplay aspect of the sandbox. This^^ Hundreds of stories? they are all the same. X joins a corp, X betrays corp by Awoxing, feeding information or simply being a douche. Player driven content? This is just the buzz-phrase excuse for ganking and scamming. Ganking IS part of EvE but to dress it up as actual content is just polishing a turd. This whole post by the new boss simply smells of the usual marketing spin to disguise the implication that they have run out of ideas and want the players to do the job for them.
Only if you ignore the fact that they have been repairing broken **** for the last few years and literally just revamped industry in the last few days as well as telling us that null will see more updates this year as well as revamps of corp/alliance tools.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |

Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
767
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 11:25:00 -
[53] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Would have been nice if the "welcome" thread was a bit more positive. Imagine what an epic job that must be.
I agree.
Being EP of any game must be an epic job, let alone in Eve Fluffy Bunny Pic! |

Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1622
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 11:26:00 -
[54] - Quote
Thank god that EVE's new Exec understands that EVE's core value is in player-generated content!
If unimaginative people like the OP were running the show, I'd be slightly worried. EVE Online: Death-o-meter |

Blobskillz McBlub
Manson Family Advent of Fate
9
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 11:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
I am happy that Seagull got this position. What I saw from her on the fanfest streams seemed like she was genuinely excited about the vision she has for EVE and I have yet to see a ******** idea or comment from her, unlike Fozzie and Rize who pump those out on a monthly basis. |

Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 11:43:00 -
[56] - Quote
The chips will fall on whether this is a hands on or hands off approach, the hands off approach already has given us large powerblocks as a quite unevitable situation. (Enjoy the irony of them now fighting over NPC null.)
Also keep in mind that the decay of nearly all the "massive" games can be traced back to the themes of player groups or playstyles being considered worhless and not needed.
Which almost always translates into "i dont need 30-50% of my revenue" and what follows are game changes made in panic mode that leave ALL playstyles and player groups scratching their heads if not unhappy... |

Skeln Thargensen
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
580
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 12:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
so is the basic argument here that the sharks don't need to farm krill when there are whales to eat and actually the whales farming krill does nothing for the ocean and the sharks can just eat the sharks then?
'cos that's a bit mental tbh. No longer a drifting spacebum |

Hicksimus
Hyperion Corporation
233
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 13:14:00 -
[58] - Quote
I know it's not a popular thing to be easier on the noobs because EvE is hard, etc. But a long time ago we hit a point where people reached EvE's version of the endgame and got bored and started being MASSIVE trolls(I mean massive, who saw that Jita Depot ****?).
A lot of people on the forums are those trolls so they'll whine about this all day but it's not the noobs fault that nullsec is dead. Do you have it? |

Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
1025
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 14:57:00 -
[59] - Quote
Tippia wrote:polly papercut wrote:What are your thoughts on how to keep EVE growing and get new players to stay? More player-made content. After all, the community and its escapades are what brings people to the game and makes them stay these days. Oh andGǪ Quote:As much as people like to ***** about players who Rat and do Incursions and missions and INDY Those activities is why EVE even has an economy in the first place If it was up to the EVE player base they would make the game Pure pvp and full time gank fest. No-on particularly bitches about players who do any of those things. People ***** about carebears, who are wholly unnecessary for the economy and who keep refusing to accept the simple fact that the game is PvP through and through. Hiply Rustic wrote:So, opening the API to additional data sources and looking for more 3rd party tools is going to do that? Really? Do tell... Who said they would?
You seem bright which makes me curious why your views are so limited in regards to new players. Player made content does bring new players to EvE, but relative to what? other games experience more rapid growth without player made content. Player made content should be in addition to changes that make the NPE more enjoyable to...more.
And if you are one of those "well they are not our kind of players" then prepare to watch EvE die. Players say new players need to adapt or die in EvE. Guess what, the game needs to do the same. If you don't like the changes...well maybe it is you who needs to adapt.
I helped push a previous PvP game to be more PvP centric. Give you one guess as to what happened, players left in droves. This may be what you want, but in general PvP games do not succeed. As it is EvE is not a PvP game as PvP games require skill, not who brings the bigger or most dicks to the table or has played longer.
If EvE wants to survive (especially CCP's poor fiscal decisions) we will need a flock of Seagulls.
This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23374
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 15:07:00 -
[60] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:You seem bright which makes me curious why your views are so limited in regards to new players. Player made content does bring new players to EvE, but relative to what? other games experience more rapid growth without player made content. They also experience more rapid drop-offs a month or three later and then go into maintenance mode for a while before being replaced by the newest thing. It's very obviously not a good way to model, and EVE's history shows this fairly well.
Quote:Player made content should be in addition to changes that make the NPE more enjoyable to...more. No-one is arguing otherwise.
Quote:I helped push a previous PvP game to be more PvP centric. Give you one guess as to what happened, players left in droves. This may be what you want, but in general PvP games do not succeed. As it is EvE is not a PvP game as PvP games require skill, not who brings the bigger or most dicks to the table or has played longer. As luck would have it, EVE breaks the mould. Not only is it a PvP game, but one where the biggest or most long-lived **** on the table isn't what determines the winner. An NPE that explains this difference from how most GÇö or even all GÇö other MMOs do it would probably help a lot in adjusting the expectations of the new players. Curing them from such horrid diseases as GÇ£can't catch upGÇ¥ or GÇ£don't do X until you have YGÇ¥ would do no end of good.
If there is anything that would cause EVE players to leave in droves, it is a sharp departure from the kind PvP-centric, player-run, sandbox gameplay that has made it so long-lasting GÇö experiments into the area of PvE raids (incursions) and good visuals (incarna) as attractors has shown that this doesn't really create any kind of customer retention. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
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