Greetings, honorable spaceship pilots,

Yeah graphs. \o/

Yeah graphs. \o/

First? Second(?)

Thank you for the update, keep up the good/hard work.

I'm sorry, but I think you may have misposted.
This is EVE General DiscussionGǪ

That aside, yay, graphs!

That 5-digit-liked posts count... o/ o/

That 5-digit-liked posts count... o/ o/

Tippia is the General discussion logic automated defense system, or possibly a raptor of some nature that preys upon the belligerent misinformed.

And yet, I see nothing here about people that bot but don't RMT.

Going forward, our new policy for ISK Buyers will be:
GÇó 1st strike, 7 days temporary ban and removal of ISK
GÇó 2nd strike, 21 days temporary ban and removal of ISK
GÇó 3rd strike, permanent ban

Bring the old advertisement back. "Joe did business with the enemy."

Tip's like count is a direct measure of the amount of emotional poster butt hurt he's caused

Eh?
So pages 14GÇô17, 27, 31, 33GÇô37, and 39 (and maybe even 51GÇô53) count as nothing?

The Smackdown

the graphs talk about ratting, mission, mining and market bots. which of those categories includes factional warfare complex bots? is there such a thing as a fw bot? have there ever been large numbers of them?

That tends to happen when a poster uses logic instead of emotion. Tip's like count is a direct measure of the amount of emotional poster butt hurt he's caused

-Signed, Knights of the Tippian White Order..

Can you make information about what alliances are being in top 10 of RMT?
This could be very funny, and could persuade few people to check their members more often.

Can you make information about what alliances are being in top 10 of RMT?
This could be very funny, and could persuade few people to check their members more often.

That's like saying Eminem sold more records than the grateful dead because he's a better musician.

Like count on EVE forums is more like a high school popularity contest... you're either one of the cool kids or you're not

All in all, we've banned roughly 30,000 bots since the beginning of 2013

So you're saying I should become a very thin front for an LSD distribution business?

e: Wtfspelling?!

Like count on EVE forums is more like a high school popularity contest... you're either one of the cool kids or you're not

well yes , one ither "gets" eve or one does not.
problem?

So, where does IsBoxer fall in this? And please don't give the "We don't recommend you use it" response. People are using it and we need this to be clarified. I know people who use it and they think it should be banned. That's reason enough for me.

ISK buyers - if they missed the point on strike two, they will still have the drive for strike three, thus wasting CCP's and player's time.

The problem with going all crazy on the ISK buyers is that in a vast majority of MMOs out there ISK buyers are never banned, or even reprimanded. Removing the ISK is fine, but quick to ban might not be the best idea.

Even the smartest dog needs to be told a few times to learn new tricks.

The problem with going all crazy on the ISK buyers is that in a vast majority of MMOs out there ISK buyers are never banned, or even reprimanded. Removing the ISK is fine, but quick to ban might not be the best idea.

Even the smartest dog needs to be told a few times to learn new tricks.

Wonder how much of those spambots are really RMT related. And for spambots please just mute them on strike 1 so they can keep spamming being unaware of it and keep paying their subs.

/c

They are people and know they are cheating. The clubbing they get is perfectly fine

Yeah, sounds more and more like "the war on drugs".
So you keep hammering the buyer.
How about posting explicit data on how many sellers you nailed, and the value of that chunk of ISK?
How about their ingame affiliations?

Until we get full transparency on who you nailed, this kind of stuff is just more propaganda.

Wonder how much of those spambots are really RMT related. And for spambots please just mute them on strike 1 so they can keep spamming being unaware of it and keep paying their subs.

/c

I'd like the numbers and alliances they belong to too. Mostly because I suspect that if there were a significant number in the larger alliances, we would probably be better at keeping house than CCP.

I suspect a significant proportion would be in NPC corps, how would we go about keeping house then?

Alliances without the information on names would be no better at keeping house than now.


Do we trust Eve players to adjust that figure so it is a % of the population, or just go on a witchhunt based on raw numbers?

"Oh, this alliance has 10 RMTers, they are fine, this other alliance has 100, burn them with fire" or

"Oh, this alliance has 10/12 members RMTing, this other alliance has 100/3000, perhaps we should burn the 10 members"


Finally, @Dinsdale, whilst CCP Pelligro did say the ban duration related to buyers, are you actually suggesting that sellers go free whilst buyers get banned?, because that would be a Guiness Book worthy feat of stretching, even for a nimble trained acrobat such as yourself.

All I can say is that whenever CCP champions how wonderful they are in their "kill the RMT'ers" PR campaigns, the majority of their verbage is about buyers.

Nailing sellers would shrink RMT activity faster than nailing buyers.

And outing BOTH sides would do wonders for credibility.

Yeah, sounds more and more like "the war on drugs".
So you keep hammering the buyer.
How about posting explicit data on how many sellers you nailed, and the value of that chunk of ISK?
How about their ingame affiliations?

Until we get full transparency on who you nailed, this kind of stuff is just more propaganda.

Sorry Tippia but what kind of privacy laws and agreements are you talking about when RMT participants are concerned?

Oh c'mon, nobody expects them to give out RL addresses and personal info they have but character name with corp and alliance? Where's the law against 'name and shame' in-game pixels?

You haven't considered that maybe this is because they're talking to potential buyers rather than potential sellers? They're the ones that need to be told that, GÇ£no, this is not a good idea and look at the statistics, we will catch you.GÇ¥ No such rhetoric works for sellers since they have no illusions about what they're doing.

What makes you so certain that they're not nailing sellers?

No, it would not because it would breach all kinds of privacy laws and agreements. Doing that just to assuage your rampant paranoia is not a good recipe for credibility GÇö quite the opposite.

Right in the EULA.
Naming and shaming, as the name suggests, is shameful in and of itself.

Oh c'mon, nobody expects them to give out RL addresses and personal info they have but character name with corp and alliance? Where's the law against 'name and shame' in-game pixels?

Although I guess since people know each other in RL some could get ganked on their doorsteps after this. We are RL psychos and degenerates after all.

Your privacy is still there as long as they don't link directly to you. Saying they banned 80 players from allaince "RMTer's are us" does not reveal who those players actually are.

The same EULA the player already breached by participating in RMT? Why am I supposed to care about the privacy of a banned character/account?

In the EULA it is explicitly pointed out that CCP OWNS everything about your chars in-game, including the names of the chars.
So you are correct, there are zero legal roadblocks stopping CCP from releasing imaginary names of pixels that reside on their servers.

And Tippia, I know you will convince me wrong by the power of your logic but sometimes world is just black and white and here case is simple: either you play within rules or not.

No, it does something far worse: it stigmatizes the other 9920 players in the alliance.

Because it's the same EULA that protects you and ensures that you are not being harassed by umpteen dingbats who can't understand the difference between broad generalisation and insinuation and their own unfounded conclusions.


GǪaside from the entire privacy section, which is there precisely to stop people like you. Catering to the mob is never a good idea.

Yeah, I know. It's all for my protection when I get stupid enough to get into RMT. Oh wait, I won't.

What can CCP do to sellers exactly? Can they get them shut down? Doesn't that just cause a slight inconvenience whilst they pop up somewhere else?

Yeah, I know. It's all for my protection when I get stupid enough to get into RMT. Oh wait, I won't.

Yeah, I know. It's all for my protection when I get stupid enough to get into RMT. Oh wait, I won't.

Privacy of pixel people? C'mon, Ralph.

And Tippia, I know you will convince me wrong by the power of your logic but sometimes world is just black and white and here case is simple: either you play within rules or not. It's not RL with subtleties and crimes of passion and whatever: buying in-game assets with out-of-game RL currency is a choice and consequences should be as severe as making offenders' character names public.

No, real people, it's an absolute.

sorry if im being too cynical about this, but if joe lawyer points at a crying mother and says "this evil CCP corporation paraded her son so that an entire community could bully him! how could they!" its pretty much over, anywhere in the world that happens.

actually its not as simple, any corporation that does something like that would made itself responsible for any repercussions this has.

there's no point in even discussing this... you have to understand that those repercussions can be as simple as some dude turning off the pc, to punching wall and all the way to stuff too grim to mention.

sorry if im being too cynical about this, but if joe lawyer points at a crying mother and says "this evil CCP corporation paraded her son so that an entire community could bully him! how could they!" its pretty much over, anywhere in the world that happens.

so it wont happen, ever. in fact if a player does the detective work to find who is botting and where the proceedings are being funneled, and decided to share it with the community CCP will intervene and protect the players who were botting. they have to.

Characters have no families nor lawyers.

Characters have no families nor lawyers.

Short sighted? Because I can see a difference between in-game character and RL person?

No, because you can't.

So I guess you RL name is Tippia and I can google you RL address just like that?

Short sighted? Because I can see a difference between in-game character and RL person?

So I guess you RL name is Tippia and I can google you RL address just like that?

So I guess you RL name is Tippia and I can google you RL address just like that?

I am really dense as a bucket of concrete because :bigger picture: and "what if psycho will wait under your bed" arguments do not convince me here. If we would think about RL psychos we wouldn't do most of what we do in-game on daily basis.

But ok, no point of arguing further. I won't convince you, you won't convince me because I am wrong for obvious reasons but that's fine with me. Now I hope nobody from this thread is going to be tomorrow at Warsaw meetup, it could get awkward :)

Oh crap, now you know where I live...

I am really dense as a bucket of concrete because :bigger picture: and "what if psycho will wait under your bed" arguments do not convince me here. If we would think about RL psychos we wouldn't do most of what we do in-game on daily basis.

But ok, no point of arguing further. I won't convince you, you won't convince me because I am wrong for obvious reasons but that's fine with me. Now I hope nobody from this thread is going to be tomorrow at Warsaw meetup, it could get awkward :)

Oh crap, now you know where I live...

the graphs talk about ratting, mission, mining and market bots. which of those categories includes factional warfare complex bots? is there such a thing as a fw bot? have there ever been large numbers of them?

I stand corrected. My slide processing part of the brain took a crap this morning.



Thanks for the long winded reply, I appreciate the time it took you to craft that post. I'm sure a "hey stupid, did you misunderstand what was on the slides here, here, and here?" would have been equally sufficient :X

I like hammers.
Let's drop some more!

Questions:
(Note, you may have to pass it on to the economics team)

How big an ISK sink is all that banned ISK, relative to the various sinks and faucets currently in the game?

When looking at the health of the game's economy, do you in fact consider banned ISK to be a sink?

So your really saying 30,000 accounts have been banned.

Do you have numbers on how many were paid accounts and how many were 14 or 21 day trials? Seeing the number of Ventures, I suspect there are a lot of trial accounts being used.


Oh and Good Work btw.

Do you ban in batches or periodically or on daily basis when you confirm offense? Did you ban any accounts today? :)

Your graph is missing the absolute most important numbers: PLEX on banned accounts.

Tippia is the General discussion logic automated defense system, or possibly a raptor of some nature that preys upon the belligerent misinformed.

Northern Associates, Brothers of Tangra (b0t) and Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere will obviously be the top three. The largest rental alliances. How many normal players would pay billions/month for systems just so they can sit and rat all day...

Over 7000 people got a first warning for ISK Buying, that's a lot. Do you not then see a problem with the game is so many people buy ISK? Risk v Reward perhaps?

Also why didn't you name and shame the alliances that were botting? (slide 34)

inb4Tippia :)

I think that boils down to accountability.

How would you feel if you were judged and vilified based entirely on the actions of a 3rd party ?
Actions that you possibly had no knowledge of.

I disagree entirely.

The eula got changed to make alliances accountable and those are significant percentages over just 2 alliances they should be called out.

Can a GM please clarify the strike policy. Does pre RMTing before the warning is it counted in strike one?

What is the difference?
Just don't do it.

The eula got changed to make alliances accountable and those are significant percentages over just 2 alliances they should be called out.