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Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.02 19:55:00 - [31] [ 2003.10.02 19:13:13 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 290.2 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:15 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 290.7 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:16 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I places an excellent hit on Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 350.8 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:17 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 295.0 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:24 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 294.9 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:26 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 251.5 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:27 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 299.4 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:28 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I barely scratches Large Secure Container [EVER], causing 117.8 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:35 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 251.5 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:37 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 251.5 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:38 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I places an excellent hit on Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 319.3 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:39 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 251.5 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:47 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 251.5 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:49 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I places an excellent hit on Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 325.1 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:51 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I places an excellent hit on Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 374.7 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:58 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I lightly hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 46.2 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:14:00 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I places an excellent hit on Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 338.1 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:14:01 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 306.1 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:14:02 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 264.0 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:14:09 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I places an excellent hit on Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 351.2 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:14:11 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 251.5 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:14:12 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 272.8 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:14:13 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 251.5 damage. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.02 19:57:00 - [32] 1200mm was at 10km range with 2 pneumatic stabs + 2 f-m12 stabs and EMP ammo. Blasters were at 4.5km range with 3 mag stabs and 1 power diag using antimatter ammo. No tracking enhancers were used. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Q NO2	Posted - 2003.10.02 23:07:00 - [33] yep, so we are all agreed so is anything going to be done about it personally - im switching to amarr, cos i beleive if anything does happen, it wont happen for a while yet.....
Nimrodel	Posted - 2003.10.02 23:51:00 - [34] I find I get much higher damage on cruiser Rails using a thorax than i do with Cruiser Beams on a maller with both ships having 5 damage mod's and having even skills also alot less cap usage the main beauty of lasers is the longer range ammo still does considerable damage the long ranged Hybrid ammo's ar very poor --------------------------------------------- Nimrodel Dark Force User Joint Espionage & Defence Industries --------------------------------------------- Your Medium YF-12a Smartbomb hits Rusty Cloud, doing 0.0 damage.
Octain	Posted - 2003.10.03 00:03:00 - [35] and remember ppl that tech2 i comming out in less than a 2or 3 weeks and the 425 are much better!!! u can see what the new stuff is going to be like at http://www.tti-nexus.com/evedb/menu.html
Lurk	Posted - 2003.10.03 00:07:00 - [36] TomB stated in the last CSM that tech2 will be in the next patch, but if everything he says would occur we'd have tech3 by now :P
Lartfor	Posted - 2003.10.03 10:56:00 - [37] Quote: and remember ppl that tech2 i comming out in less than a 2or 3 weeks and the 425 are much better!!! u can see what the new stuff is going to be like at http://www.tti-nexus.com/evedb/menu.html Yuck the lvl 5 425mm is worse than the lvl 5 250....
Lurk	Posted - 2003.10.03 12:46:00 - [38] Quote: Quote: and remember ppl that tech2 i comming out in less than a 2or 3 weeks and the 425 are much better!!! u can see what the new stuff is going to be like at http://www.tti-nexus.com/evedb/menu.html Yuck the lvl 5 425mm is worse than the lvl 5 250.... The TTi Nexus is outdated, why else should the 425mm I have 9sec RoF and II-V have 7,5 RoF ?
Doc Brown	Posted - 2003.10.03 14:46:00 - [39] Quote: 1200mm was at 10km range with 2 pneumatic stabs + 2 f-m12 stabs and EMP ammo. Blasters were at 4.5km range with 3 mag stabs and 1 power diag using antimatter ammo. No tracking enhancers were used. What is the optimal range of the 1200mm? I find that my NBC's have an optimal of 2km (with AM ammo) and a greater than 5.5x dmg mod (yes.. I have high skills and items). _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.03 15:47:00 - [40] I found it interesting to note that the projectiles, with their supposed poor tracking, did not miss a shot while the blasters, with "decent" tracking, missed 5. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Ukiah	Posted - 2003.10.03 17:01:00 - [41] I'll believe Tech 2 is in the game when I SEE it in the game. Wonder if they'll hand out ONE 425 tech 2 bp to a mega corp and we'll be paying 10mil per gun.
Bobith	Posted - 2003.10.04 15:24:00 - [42] We can hope that desnt happen agen. But i to think hybrids need to tweeking. show hybrids some love
von Steinroehder	Posted - 2003.10.05 20:39:00 - [43] bump Right, show some love! I can't believe it, but atm I'm tempted to go for mega pulse lasers instead of my blasters. The blasters do nice damage when they hit, but counting the amount of misses and the severe cap/ammo drain they're inferior to lasers. I had a fake encounter with a friend of mine in his Apoc, using my Megathron with a blaster loadout... he got out of range and slapped me quite hard. Would have been ok, because I was not fitted for range... but he even did it while we were up close and personal... that shouldn't happen. I HAVE to chose hybrids for reasons of national pride... for the sake of the Gallentean Democracy! Btw, I abandoned my 425 / dual 250 mm rail setup a long time ago. The thought of only having around 10 minutes of firing time before I had to dock to restock made me sick.
Drago Musevni	Posted - 2003.10.05 23:01:00 - [44] Edited by: Drago Musevni on 05/10/2003 23:02:23 I've taken to heading out to a hunting spot and leaving an anchored Large secure cann full of ammo, that way when i next head out I have the ammo in my hold and what was left in the cann. If I have anything left after the hunt, I top up the cann. It is the only way I can keep fighting in the field with Hybrids, other than having an Indie follow me around with ammo. I have just recently stripped off one 425mm rail and replaced with a Mega Pulse laser. I am even waiting for the corp to loot 2 Tachyons for me, to change over, not because they are "uber" but because they are the hardest hitting beams, and require no ammo, freeing up my cargo hold. Such a shame when I am in a Megathron.... Current setup: 2 x 425mm Railguns (Thorium Ammo) 1 x Mega Pulse Laser I (can't remember the crystal) 2 x Neutron Blaster Cannon I (Thorium ammo) 2 x Anode Ion Blasters (Med AM ammo) 1 x S-110 Siege Launcher (Widowmaker Hv missiles) N.B. Yes I know there are better ammo types than Thorium L, but I have 10k of the stuff to use up before I go back to Plut/AM mix :) Edit Forgot a question : Why does Large ammo warrent a 5x increase in weight, anyone have a proper answer ? ________________________________ "You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." --Marcus
ClawHammer III	Posted - 2003.10.06 08:28:00 - [45] Quote: 1200mm was at 10km range with 2 pneumatic stabs + 2 f-m12 stabs and EMP ammo. Blasters were at 4.5km range with 3 mag stabs and 1 power diag using antimatter ammo. No tracking enhancers were used. The blasters were outside their optimum range while the 1200mm werenÆt so this isnÆt exactly a fair comparison. That being said if you do the same test with 425mm rails I think you will find similar results. You won't miss any shots but you will probably get alot more low damage hits then high damage hits. I did a similar test today on Chaos. My target was the Sunfire station at PF-346 XI and my range was also at about 10km. My 425mm damage with Antimatter varied alot ranging from like 9 to 500 but my Tachyons with Multifrequency were very consistently hitting at around 150-300 and only rarely went below 100 with the lowest hit being around 20 and the highest around 700. Also note that my hybrid skills and mods were far superior then my laser ones. For Hybrids I had Large Hybrid 3, Gallente BS 3(was piloting a Megathron), Sergical Strike 3 and 2 Mag Vortex 1s. For Lasers I had only had Large Energy 1, Sergical Strike 3 and 1 'Skadi' cooling unit. Can I get a WTF?
Serak Tur	Posted - 2003.10.08 21:52:00 - [46] bump* :)
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.10.14 18:39:00 - [47] Me and a mate, both using Domis, him with Tachs, me with 425 Rails. No contest, Tachs with more hits, better damage, no ammo requirements, and manageable cap useage. I spent 15 mil on a 425 BP. Would CCP please fix this gun so that people start using SOMETHING other than lanchers and Thachyons in their highslots? BW (training up his energy skills...) Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.14 21:58:00 - [48] Quote: Quote: 1200mm was at 10km range with 2 pneumatic stabs + 2 f-m12 stabs and EMP ammo. Blasters were at 4.5km range with 3 mag stabs and 1 power diag using antimatter ammo. No tracking enhancers were used. The blasters were outside their optimum range while the 1200mm werenÆt so this isnÆt exactly a fair comparison. That being said if you do the same test with 425mm rails I think you will find similar results. You won't miss any shots but you will probably get alot more low damage hits then high damage hits. I did a similar test today on Chaos. My target was the Sunfire station at PF-346 XI and my range was also at about 10km. My 425mm damage with Antimatter varied alot ranging from like 9 to 500 but my Tachyons with Multifrequency were very consistently hitting at around 150-300 and only rarely went below 100 with the lowest hit being around 20 and the highest around 700. Also note that my hybrid skills and mods were far superior then my laser ones. For Hybrids I had Large Hybrid 3, Gallente BS 3(was piloting a Megathron), Sergical Strike 3 and 2 Mag Vortex 1s. For Lasers I had only had Large Energy 1, Sergical Strike 3 and 1 'Skadi' cooling unit. Can I get a WTF? Nah, my skills pushes the blaster range to 4.5km but I know what you mean. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.10.16 15:54:00 - [49] BUMP Damnit, these problems don't go away. I swear to god I am training up energy and related skills and seriously thinking of taking 3 weeks to train for an Armageddon, if Hybrids are going to stay useless. TomB, can we get a comment man? BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Doc Brown	Posted - 2003.10.16 15:59:00 - [50] I think Hybrids need one of the following: (across the board for all large hybrids) Adjustment A: +0.5x dmg mult (mabey less on the large dual hybrids) +10% tracking speed -or- Adjustment B: -10% cap useage -10% Powergrid requirements _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.10.16 16:09:00 - [51] Quote: I think Hybrids need one of the following: (across the board for all large hybrids) Adjustment A: +0.5x dmg mult (mabey less on the large dual hybrids) +10% tracking speed -or- Adjustment B: -10% cap useage -10% Powergrid requirements I vote for A myself. But the 425 needs more like 50% increase to even match the tracking of its L energy equivelent the Thachyon. AFAIK it's .0022 for 425, .0033 for Thachyons. Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Kesh Inehre	Posted - 2003.10.16 17:56:00 - [52] I wish I had known about this sooner. The nerf hit just as I got my ship and large hybrid skill. Plz TomB: Show Hybrids Some Love! -Kesh
Lentia	Posted - 2003.10.16 18:12:00 - [53] This post just keeps going. Obviously Hybrids are kinds messed up. Its rare to see a Mega or Dom with hybrids now. I have gunnery 5 and havent bothered to train large hybrids yet. I'm actually training up energy weapons now and find that the med lasers hit way more consistently and not having to use ammo is a huge convenience. The cap is suprisingly the same. Also thinking about forgetting Gallente alltogether and training up Amarr http://coldfusion.online-guild.com/
Lartfor	Posted - 2003.10.16 18:25:00 - [54] Edited by: Lartfor on 16/10/2003 18:28:33 425mm would be fine IF it got 30% more tracking, because it has a low req, the problem is that gal has no weapon to match the 1400mm howizter or the tach laser. The 425mm rail is more on par with the mega beam and 1200 artilary. All i sugest is, give the 425mm like 30% more tracking and introduce a 500mm rail that is on par with 1400mm howizter and tach. Here are some experimental stats 500mm Rail Cannon Dmg mod: 3.8 Rof: 11.5 Cap usage: 46 Range: 56000 optimal, 25000 fall out. Tracking: .0033 (same as tach) Pwr grd usage: 3425 Cpu: 55 I think that this weapon should hold 15 shots. A weaponlike this has a quite high req for Gal ships so probably only 1-3 would be able to be fitted to a megathron. Personally i think adding another Rail class weapon would basically allow for a more diversified load out, and balance rails. I can see equiping 2 500mm rails 4 425mm rails, a dual 250mm rail, and a torp.
Doc Brown	Posted - 2003.10.16 19:36:00 - [55] Edited by: Doc Brown on 16/10/2003 19:44:27 You know..Adding new hybrid types (i.e. 500 mm rail) isn't going to change anything. All that adding new guns will do is make the balancing even harder. I think that the present guns need a slight bost in 2 or 3 of their stats.. not much more than that otherwise the scales will tip too much in favor of hybrids. more suggestion: Adjustment C: +25% Tracking +5-10% dmg or +5-10% ROF -5% Cap use _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.16 20:01:00 - [56] We don't need a hybrid with longer range than the 425mm hybrid. We need something that hits good, often, and hard at 20km. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
James Hawkings	Posted - 2003.10.16 20:48:00 - [57] i use neutron cannons and they miss pretty often against battleships at their optimal range. which is litlte above 1 with AM. kinda ****es me off so i'm going to switch over to mega pulse and see if i can hit more consitently. my real beef is that they don't hit any where near as often as other guns. any dev mind telling us why? ~Built Hauler Tough~ ~Dazed and Confused Currently~
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.16 21:44:00 - [58] Lasers/projectiles have such versatility - they have short, medium, and long-range guns which do good damage versus requirements. Hybrids have stupidly short-range guns which, admittedly, do good damage when they hit or long-range guns which barely hit and don't do much damage. Blasters are good when you get up close and dirty but, by the time you're up close, those tachyons have decimated your shields. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.10.17 15:38:00 - [59] Bump This subject does NOT die until hybrids get fixed. It is just too bizarre that the turret preference for 1/2 the races is bolloxed. BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Kram Calama	Posted - 2003.10.17 16:27:00 - [60] Personally I wouldn't even consider using 425's at the moment and as most pvp battleship encounters tend to be within the 20km range I prefer to use heavy blasters. Only when they sort the lag/warp in/gate camp issues and we can actually plan for battles using long range will the ineffectiveness of the 425's really show. Basically I totally agree that 425's need a hell of a lot of love! Station camping, ship jamming, forum spamming, milk drinking, deep thinking, gooner loving, goat hugging, pirate killer............AVE IT LARGE!!!!

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