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Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.01 16:09:00 - [1] Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 01/10/2003 16:12:41 Projectiles have poor tracking, good range, very good damage, and low requirements. Lasers have good tracking, good range, very good damage, and high requirements. Hybrids have poor tracking, decent range, poor damage, and high requirements. What gives? Hybrids use cap, powergrid, and cpu but do not get the corresponding damage boost that lasers get or the corresponding range of projectiles. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Troezar	Posted - 2003.10.01 16:36:00 - [2] Couldn't agree more, and the ammo takes up far too much space. An increase in damage would be nice as 425's aren't as good as I expected. BTW if a dev reads this why do large hybrids sound so crap?!!! A corp mate scared the crap out of me when he opened up with tach's, can't be that hard to change the sound...
Winterblink	Posted - 2003.10.01 17:38:00 - [3] Boost the damage, lower the requirements. That ought to bring them in line with the others as far as advantages/disadvantages go. ___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie//
Lartfor	Posted - 2003.10.01 17:46:00 - [4] Here is what i say should be done. Dmg mod 2.75 tracking speed.003 There, i think after that they would be decent.
Valeria	Posted - 2003.10.01 18:08:00 - [5] The philosophy was always that Hybrids should be the most devastating weapons (energy and projectile combined) with the highest requirements. I don't know this was changed in retail, I liked it as it was. They kind of feel pointless now. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Winterblink	Posted - 2003.10.01 18:16:00 - [6] Quote: The philosophy was always that Hybrids should be the most devastating weapons (energy and projectile combined) with the highest requirements. I don't know this was changed in retail, I liked it as it was. They kind of feel pointless now. Right now I think the only real use I get out of them is as close range weapons. Cheap to buy, cheep to feed, do respectable damage with good rate of fire. ___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie//
Dragon Emperor	Posted - 2003.10.01 18:20:00 - [7] tachyon on apoc, 425 on mega, 1400 on tempest all do about same dot if you have decent skills like battleship 4 etc. and laser use way more cap. I'm at work atm, but I'm pretty sure 425 with antimatter has better range than tachyon with multi.
SS Vegito	Posted - 2003.10.01 19:46:00 - [8] Edited by: SS Vegito on 01/10/2003 20:04:40 And what gun is it we put on a caldari ship that does as much damage as those 3 you listed cause it sure isnt a 425.
Dragon Emperor	Posted - 2003.10.01 20:32:00 - [9] I've said many many times, I'll say it again I guess: If caldari bs can even do close turret dmg as other bs, then this game is completely unplayable. caldari bs is already the BEST, if anything would buff caldari bs, then first seriously BUFF UP other 3 race bs first.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2003.10.01 20:46:00 - [10] Quote: I've said many many times, I'll say it again I guess: If caldari bs can even do close turret dmg as other bs, then this game is completely unplayable. caldari bs is already the BEST, if anything would buff caldari bs, then first seriously BUFF UP other 3 race bs first. Gallante use hybrids too.. most Gallante ships are using tachyons and mega pulse beams right now, that should tell you something. Caldari ships will never do as much turret damage as another races battleship. No Caldari ship has over 4 turrets and they have by far the least low slots, so there's your difference right there, why complain? Hybrids suck again, lasers and projectiles got beefed up and hybrids actually got WORSE with the patch so why use hybrids? There's absolutely no reason to use hybrids on a Caldari ship and even Gallante ships (ships with DMG and TRACKING bonus) are using lasers? Can I get a W T F? ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
ga'ia	Posted - 2003.10.01 20:47:00 - [11] only problem i see is that the increase fit req for ion blasters was totally...stupid aswell as the cap usage increase for them compare with thier damage output (2.8xx d-mod :/), havent used or seen someone use them since patch. The blasters got kinda good tracking, but yea range is poor, but do most damage in the game really... Rails...well...think the 425 need _some_ more.. __________________________________________________________
Luc Boye	Posted - 2003.10.01 20:56:00 - [12] Edited by: Luc Boye on 01/10/2003 20:57:07 Actually gallente battleships with hybrids have become so lame, so I'm training away from my race atm. It is easy to sit in apoc and talk how good hybrids are, try using them -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
Dragon Emperor	Posted - 2003.10.01 21:02:00 - [13] Quote: Edited by: Luc Boye on 01/10/2003 20:57:07 Actually gallente battleships with hybrids have become so lame, so I'm training away from my race atm. It is easy to sit in apoc and talk how good hybrids are, try using them same as using other weapon and talk about how good laser is. from long time ago, I have experience with BOTH amarr and gallente battleships. I can use ALL weapon in game. All types of weapon I have similar skills.
Ballistic Angel	Posted - 2003.10.01 21:04:00 - [14] I agree L hybrids suck. good rof, fair tracking, bad range and damage. a proto M hybrid will do more damage and have better range.
Lurk	Posted - 2003.10.01 22:44:00 - [15] Edited by: Lurk on 01/10/2003 22:45:51 I'm using 425mm Rails and i can tell you they SUCK ... Not that they do no damage, i have a RoF of about 5 secs and do wreckings scratching the 600s. But i have to use 4 cap power relais and controlled bursts 4 to be able to fire 5 of em. Not to mention that using ammo sucks ... The ammo problem isn't that worse with projectiles as hybrids shoot more than twice as fast. My Megathron can load a full of 2500 Shots with full cargo. Not to mention every shot costs me like 50isk. They also use far more CPU than projectiles, dunno about lasers though. Lower Ammo Volume and give the Hybrids a bit damage boost. (like +10%).
SS Vegito	Posted - 2003.10.01 22:49:00 - [16] Yeah large ammos volume is a little off. A standard missile uses less and a heavy only uses twice as much.
Lurk	Posted - 2003.10.01 23:01:00 - [17] Just comparing 1400mm and 425mm. The little damage that the 425mm does more, can easily be compansated by 1-2 damage mods in low slots (the hybrid user has to sacrifice them to cap power relais). The projectile user still ahs the advantage in cap usage and cpu usage AND he used less ammo over time.
TIvian	Posted - 2003.10.02 00:49:00 - [18] OH PLEASE SHOW SOME LOVE TO THE HYBRIDS!!! other wise all my training to them is for nothing!!! ah well!!!! continues training Lasers and Projectiles and Missles (\_/) (O.o) (> <) Teh Uber Asheron's Call Bunny Booty WTFPWNZ you!!
SOHAIL	Posted - 2003.10.02 03:08:00 - [19] Aggree CCP should give Hybrid more advantage over any other weapon type. Most of people are using Lasers instead of Hybrids, cuz of their poor damage and tracking. -Amy- "We'll show them what FIREPOWER is all about"
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2003.10.02 03:52:00 - [20] Here's why large hybrids suck. First let's look at ion blasters and their variants.. here's why they blow. Their tracking still isn't all that great for a gun that has a 1km optimal pretty much with antimatter ammo (why use anything else but AM with a 2400m optimal?). Their damage is very nice and their ROF is excellent, but honestly, their range is just stupid. What exactly is low range? I would say 5-8km is LOW range for a battleship, 1km isn't any range at all, just isn't. Why use a hybrid blaster with no range when you can do just as much damage with a laser at 60 times the range??? Now for Railguns, ugh, these are worse than the blasters if you ask me. I don't quite understand WHY but they do HORRIBLE damage. They need beefed up considerably.. their tracking is a joke (worse than tachyon wtf?) their damage is less than a medium turret most of the time.. their range is nice but honestly other turrets do more damage over higher ranges than a railgun. Dual 250mm Railgun doesn't seem that bad, range is poor, damage is poor, but the ROF is very fast.. I haven't used these much but doing 60 damage with a large gun seemed kind of not worth it. These guns got their tracking nerfed heavily and their optimal is not so hot sooo probably this gun sucks as well I imagine.. Hybrids are once again ther worst weapons in this game, which is why no experienced players are using hybrids, AGAIN. Last patch they weren't the best but they were atleast on par with other weapons, now they're just so much a joke that ships with hybrid bonuses aren't even using them.. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Blacklight	Posted - 2003.10.02 04:26:00 - [21] Bought some 425's to try out the other day, undocked from station made 5 jumps into 0.0 and my favourite testing ground.... .....opened up on some NPC's .....wondered what the hell was going on(!) .....got over the mild panic at the shockingly low damage .....switched ammo in case that was the problem .....got over 2nd bout of mild panic .....utter dissapointment now set in .....finished the NPCs off with missiles .....left the loot .....got the hell out of there .....docked and refitted my laser combo.... The 425's are sat in my hangar collecting dust where they will stay until they get sorted. I do far more damage with my named 250's, 425's are utter rubbish. Dire, dire, shoddy weapon! Eve Blacklight Style
Scobichevskaya	Posted - 2003.10.02 05:16:00 - [22] Edited by: Liebe on 02/10/2003 05:18:52 Quote: Edited by: Lurk on 01/10/2003 22:45:51 I'm using 425mm Rails and i can tell you they SUCK ... Not that they do no damage, i have a RoF of about 5 secs and do wreckings scratching the 600s. But i have to use 4 cap power relais and controlled bursts 4 to be able to fire 5 of em. Not to mention that using ammo sucks ... The ammo problem isn't that worse with projectiles as hybrids shoot more than twice as fast. My Megathron can load a full of 2500 Shots with full cargo. Not to mention every shot costs me like 50isk. They also use far more CPU than projectiles, dunno about lasers though. Lower Ammo Volume and give the Hybrids a bit damage boost. (like +10%). I agree. Most biggest gripe is that I think that the large 425 rail and large blasters use too much cap. My 2nd largest gripe is the ammo size. I also think the tracking and optimal range of large blasters are too low. I'm still using medium 250 prototypes because they track way better than the large rails, have much lower powergrid requirements, and the ammo is much smaller and cheaper. The hybrids should be between a projectile and energy weapon. The range and tracking are sort of OK for the rails since they are between those of the projectile and energy guns, however, they could be improved by a little bit as well as have more damage. The blasters track way too slow and definitely need a boost, and/or reduce the cap usage so that if a tracking computer is used, then the cap usage isn't so much. The energy consumption might be between that of the projectiles and energy guns, but the damage done for the amount of cap that it uses isn't as good. Either boost the damage of the guns (or other features of the guns so it will hit more often) or reduce the cap usage. ------------- RUS / RUA RUSSIAN Team
ClawHammer III	Posted - 2003.10.02 06:34:00 - [23] Edited by: ClawHammer III on 02/10/2003 06:35:59 I agree that Hybrids still use too much cap for the amount of damage they inflict, rail guns in particular. I also noticed that the damage varies wildly. ItÆs not uncommon for me to get hits below 40 damage and some times below 20 on a slow moving target at 30km with a tracking computer on. I find the fact that the gun some times uses more cap units then the damage it inflicts pretty ridiculous. I probably wouldnÆt be so annoyed if I also got a proportional amount of wreaking hits but it seams like IÆm getting damage that is below normal far more often then damage that is above normal. I'm inclined to think itÆs a bug of some sort because lasers seem to hit very consistently. BTW this is with high level skills and several high-end damage mods.
agrizla	Posted - 2003.10.02 07:19:00 - [24] Heh - "off the shelf" heavy beam lasers (a medium weapon you'll note) do more DoT at 20km than 425mm rails. That's in a Gallante ship with a hybrid damage modifier fitted and no laser damage modifier fitted. Oh and it's against a stationary target (a friend's BS). Before anyone asks - yes there is a tracking enhancer running as well. Large hybrids are utterly pointless. To anyone about to train them - don't! Seriously. Just don't bother.
Abn Matar	Posted - 2003.10.02 09:18:00 - [25] This changes is what i think should be done to the hybrid guns. 452mm Rail DMG: 3x (instead of 2.5) Cap usage: 30 (instead of 35) Tracking: 0.00245 (instead of 0.0022) this will make the gun do about 132 DMG with antimatter (i do all counting from basic stats) It will make 14,66 DMG/sec and 879,6 DMG/minute. (With 2.5x it makes 12,22 DMG/sec and 733,3 DMG/minute) A tachyon makes 16,32 DMG/sec and 979,2 DMG/minute. A 1400mm makes 11,84 DMG/sec and 710,9 DMG/minute. With the 3x mod it between the laser and the proj like it should be. The cap usage will make it take 30 cap less/minute. And the tracking makes it hit better at its lower falloff. (The hybrid is not a 'hybrid' of the laser and projectile, so you cant make it better then both it should be a 'middle' thing, thereby the guns are balanced)
Lurk	Posted - 2003.10.02 13:24:00 - [26] Quote: Edited by: ClawHammer III on 02/10/2003 06:35:59 I agree that Hybrids still use too much cap for the amount of damage they inflict, rail guns in particular. I also noticed that the damage varies wildly. ItÆs not uncommon for me to get hits below 40 damage and some times below 20 on a slow moving target at 30km with a tracking computer on. I find the fact that the gun some times uses more cap units then the damage it inflicts pretty ridiculous. I probably wouldnÆt be so annoyed if I also got a proportional amount of wreaking hits but it seams like IÆm getting damage that is below normal far more often then damage that is above normal. I'm inclined to think itÆs a bug of some sort because lasers seem to hit very consistently. BTW this is with high level skills and several high-end damage mods. I experienced quite good damage results (using 3 damage mods and 1 tracking comp though). But it's not what it should be - a laser does far more damage, using little more cap and the projectile deals almost the same damage without using any cap at all. I seem to hit best at around 30-40km. Below 10km i don't even hit a Huge Scordite rock while moving at 5m/s. The 3x damage mod and a little tracking bonus should do the trick. And ... i don't get why a Dual 250mm Railgun does about the same damage over time than a 250mm Prototype (could be even less damage) ...
Lartfor	Posted - 2003.10.02 17:13:00 - [27] I personally think that the hybrids problem is not thier dmg, but thier ability to hit acuratly.
Novo DuPont	Posted - 2003.10.02 18:31:00 - [28] I made a post about this and from what I can see some how that range/damage formulas are screwed up. "To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
Ph0enix	Posted - 2003.10.02 18:50:00 - [29] ******* great. just bought and trained Gallente BS skill and Large Hybrid Turret skill. i have long fought against my brothers who choose my races guns, projectiles, and have been teased for doing so. since the last patch my 250 protos have been performing worse (dunno wot they nerfed, but they nerfed something...) and with everything i've heard about the 450s..... CCP please sort out the Hybrids. up the tracking a bit and the damage a lot and i'll be happy. oh, and -50% tache dmg www.freetribes.net
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.02 19:54:00 - [30] Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 02/10/2003 20:04:35 [ 2003.10.02 19:22:40 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I barely scratches Large Secure Container [EVER], causing 61.3 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:22:41 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I places an excellent hit on Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 299.5 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:22:45 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 231.4 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:22:46 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I lightly hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 7.8 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:22:47 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I places an excellent hit on Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 310.0 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:22:50 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 256.6 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:22:51 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I lightly hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 16.7 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:22:52 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I perfectly strikes Large Secure Container [EVER], wrecking for 694.3 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:22:55 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I barely scratches Large Secure Container [EVER], causing 83.0 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:22:56 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 288.3 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:22:57 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 245.6 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:00 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I lightly hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 18.9 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:01 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I barely scratches Large Secure Container [EVER], causing 101.9 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:02 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I lightly hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 8.9 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:05 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 283.0 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:06 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 231.4 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:07 ] (combat) Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I glances off Large Secure Container [EVER], causing no real damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:08 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 240.8 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:11 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 231.4 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:12 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 248.6 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:13 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 255.3 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:16 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I places an excellent hit on Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 302.4 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:17 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I places an excellent hit on Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 303.5 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:18 ] (combat) Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I glances off Large Secure Container [EVER], causing no real damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:21 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I barely scratches Large Secure Container [EVER], causing 77.2 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:22 ] (combat) Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I glances off Large Secure Container [EVER], causing no real damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:25 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 231.4 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:26 ] (combat) Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I glances off Large Secure Container [EVER], causing no real damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:27 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 237.4 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:29 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 277.7 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:33 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I barely scratches Large Secure Container [EVER], causing 106.5 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:35 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I barely scratches Large Secure Container [EVER], causing 95.9 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:23:35 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I barely scratches Lar LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.02 19:55:00 - [31] [ 2003.10.02 19:13:13 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 290.2 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:15 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 290.7 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:16 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I places an excellent hit on Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 350.8 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:17 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 295.0 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:24 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 294.9 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:26 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 251.5 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:27 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 299.4 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:28 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I barely scratches Large Secure Container [EVER], causing 117.8 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:35 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 251.5 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:37 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 251.5 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:38 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I places an excellent hit on Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 319.3 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:39 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 251.5 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:47 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 251.5 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:49 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I places an excellent hit on Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 325.1 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:51 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I places an excellent hit on Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 374.7 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:13:58 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I lightly hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 46.2 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:14:00 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I places an excellent hit on Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 338.1 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:14:01 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 306.1 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:14:02 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 264.0 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:14:09 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I places an excellent hit on Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 351.2 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:14:11 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 251.5 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:14:12 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I is well aimed at Large Secure Container [EVER], inflicting 272.8 damage. [ 2003.10.02 19:14:13 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I hits Large Secure Container [EVER], doing 251.5 damage. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.02 19:57:00 - [32] 1200mm was at 10km range with 2 pneumatic stabs + 2 f-m12 stabs and EMP ammo. Blasters were at 4.5km range with 3 mag stabs and 1 power diag using antimatter ammo. No tracking enhancers were used. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Q NO2	Posted - 2003.10.02 23:07:00 - [33] yep, so we are all agreed so is anything going to be done about it personally - im switching to amarr, cos i beleive if anything does happen, it wont happen for a while yet.....
Nimrodel	Posted - 2003.10.02 23:51:00 - [34] I find I get much higher damage on cruiser Rails using a thorax than i do with Cruiser Beams on a maller with both ships having 5 damage mod's and having even skills also alot less cap usage the main beauty of lasers is the longer range ammo still does considerable damage the long ranged Hybrid ammo's ar very poor --------------------------------------------- Nimrodel Dark Force User Joint Espionage & Defence Industries --------------------------------------------- Your Medium YF-12a Smartbomb hits Rusty Cloud, doing 0.0 damage.
Octain	Posted - 2003.10.03 00:03:00 - [35] and remember ppl that tech2 i comming out in less than a 2or 3 weeks and the 425 are much better!!! u can see what the new stuff is going to be like at http://www.tti-nexus.com/evedb/menu.html
Lurk	Posted - 2003.10.03 00:07:00 - [36] TomB stated in the last CSM that tech2 will be in the next patch, but if everything he says would occur we'd have tech3 by now :P
Lartfor	Posted - 2003.10.03 10:56:00 - [37] Quote: and remember ppl that tech2 i comming out in less than a 2or 3 weeks and the 425 are much better!!! u can see what the new stuff is going to be like at http://www.tti-nexus.com/evedb/menu.html Yuck the lvl 5 425mm is worse than the lvl 5 250....
Lurk	Posted - 2003.10.03 12:46:00 - [38] Quote: Quote: and remember ppl that tech2 i comming out in less than a 2or 3 weeks and the 425 are much better!!! u can see what the new stuff is going to be like at http://www.tti-nexus.com/evedb/menu.html Yuck the lvl 5 425mm is worse than the lvl 5 250.... The TTi Nexus is outdated, why else should the 425mm I have 9sec RoF and II-V have 7,5 RoF ?
Doc Brown	Posted - 2003.10.03 14:46:00 - [39] Quote: 1200mm was at 10km range with 2 pneumatic stabs + 2 f-m12 stabs and EMP ammo. Blasters were at 4.5km range with 3 mag stabs and 1 power diag using antimatter ammo. No tracking enhancers were used. What is the optimal range of the 1200mm? I find that my NBC's have an optimal of 2km (with AM ammo) and a greater than 5.5x dmg mod (yes.. I have high skills and items). _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.03 15:47:00 - [40] I found it interesting to note that the projectiles, with their supposed poor tracking, did not miss a shot while the blasters, with "decent" tracking, missed 5. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Ukiah	Posted - 2003.10.03 17:01:00 - [41] I'll believe Tech 2 is in the game when I SEE it in the game. Wonder if they'll hand out ONE 425 tech 2 bp to a mega corp and we'll be paying 10mil per gun.
Bobith	Posted - 2003.10.04 15:24:00 - [42] We can hope that desnt happen agen. But i to think hybrids need to tweeking. show hybrids some love
von Steinroehder	Posted - 2003.10.05 20:39:00 - [43] bump Right, show some love! I can't believe it, but atm I'm tempted to go for mega pulse lasers instead of my blasters. The blasters do nice damage when they hit, but counting the amount of misses and the severe cap/ammo drain they're inferior to lasers. I had a fake encounter with a friend of mine in his Apoc, using my Megathron with a blaster loadout... he got out of range and slapped me quite hard. Would have been ok, because I was not fitted for range... but he even did it while we were up close and personal... that shouldn't happen. I HAVE to chose hybrids for reasons of national pride... for the sake of the Gallentean Democracy! Btw, I abandoned my 425 / dual 250 mm rail setup a long time ago. The thought of only having around 10 minutes of firing time before I had to dock to restock made me sick.
Drago Musevni	Posted - 2003.10.05 23:01:00 - [44] Edited by: Drago Musevni on 05/10/2003 23:02:23 I've taken to heading out to a hunting spot and leaving an anchored Large secure cann full of ammo, that way when i next head out I have the ammo in my hold and what was left in the cann. If I have anything left after the hunt, I top up the cann. It is the only way I can keep fighting in the field with Hybrids, other than having an Indie follow me around with ammo. I have just recently stripped off one 425mm rail and replaced with a Mega Pulse laser. I am even waiting for the corp to loot 2 Tachyons for me, to change over, not because they are "uber" but because they are the hardest hitting beams, and require no ammo, freeing up my cargo hold. Such a shame when I am in a Megathron.... Current setup: 2 x 425mm Railguns (Thorium Ammo) 1 x Mega Pulse Laser I (can't remember the crystal) 2 x Neutron Blaster Cannon I (Thorium ammo) 2 x Anode Ion Blasters (Med AM ammo) 1 x S-110 Siege Launcher (Widowmaker Hv missiles) N.B. Yes I know there are better ammo types than Thorium L, but I have 10k of the stuff to use up before I go back to Plut/AM mix :) Edit Forgot a question : Why does Large ammo warrent a 5x increase in weight, anyone have a proper answer ? ________________________________ "You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." --Marcus
ClawHammer III	Posted - 2003.10.06 08:28:00 - [45] Quote: 1200mm was at 10km range with 2 pneumatic stabs + 2 f-m12 stabs and EMP ammo. Blasters were at 4.5km range with 3 mag stabs and 1 power diag using antimatter ammo. No tracking enhancers were used. The blasters were outside their optimum range while the 1200mm werenÆt so this isnÆt exactly a fair comparison. That being said if you do the same test with 425mm rails I think you will find similar results. You won't miss any shots but you will probably get alot more low damage hits then high damage hits. I did a similar test today on Chaos. My target was the Sunfire station at PF-346 XI and my range was also at about 10km. My 425mm damage with Antimatter varied alot ranging from like 9 to 500 but my Tachyons with Multifrequency were very consistently hitting at around 150-300 and only rarely went below 100 with the lowest hit being around 20 and the highest around 700. Also note that my hybrid skills and mods were far superior then my laser ones. For Hybrids I had Large Hybrid 3, Gallente BS 3(was piloting a Megathron), Sergical Strike 3 and 2 Mag Vortex 1s. For Lasers I had only had Large Energy 1, Sergical Strike 3 and 1 'Skadi' cooling unit. Can I get a WTF?
Serak Tur	Posted - 2003.10.08 21:52:00 - [46] bump* :)
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.10.14 18:39:00 - [47] Me and a mate, both using Domis, him with Tachs, me with 425 Rails. No contest, Tachs with more hits, better damage, no ammo requirements, and manageable cap useage. I spent 15 mil on a 425 BP. Would CCP please fix this gun so that people start using SOMETHING other than lanchers and Thachyons in their highslots? BW (training up his energy skills...) Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.14 21:58:00 - [48] Quote: Quote: 1200mm was at 10km range with 2 pneumatic stabs + 2 f-m12 stabs and EMP ammo. Blasters were at 4.5km range with 3 mag stabs and 1 power diag using antimatter ammo. No tracking enhancers were used. The blasters were outside their optimum range while the 1200mm werenÆt so this isnÆt exactly a fair comparison. That being said if you do the same test with 425mm rails I think you will find similar results. You won't miss any shots but you will probably get alot more low damage hits then high damage hits. I did a similar test today on Chaos. My target was the Sunfire station at PF-346 XI and my range was also at about 10km. My 425mm damage with Antimatter varied alot ranging from like 9 to 500 but my Tachyons with Multifrequency were very consistently hitting at around 150-300 and only rarely went below 100 with the lowest hit being around 20 and the highest around 700. Also note that my hybrid skills and mods were far superior then my laser ones. For Hybrids I had Large Hybrid 3, Gallente BS 3(was piloting a Megathron), Sergical Strike 3 and 2 Mag Vortex 1s. For Lasers I had only had Large Energy 1, Sergical Strike 3 and 1 'Skadi' cooling unit. Can I get a WTF? Nah, my skills pushes the blaster range to 4.5km but I know what you mean. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.10.16 15:54:00 - [49] BUMP Damnit, these problems don't go away. I swear to god I am training up energy and related skills and seriously thinking of taking 3 weeks to train for an Armageddon, if Hybrids are going to stay useless. TomB, can we get a comment man? BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Doc Brown	Posted - 2003.10.16 15:59:00 - [50] I think Hybrids need one of the following: (across the board for all large hybrids) Adjustment A: +0.5x dmg mult (mabey less on the large dual hybrids) +10% tracking speed -or- Adjustment B: -10% cap useage -10% Powergrid requirements _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.10.16 16:09:00 - [51] Quote: I think Hybrids need one of the following: (across the board for all large hybrids) Adjustment A: +0.5x dmg mult (mabey less on the large dual hybrids) +10% tracking speed -or- Adjustment B: -10% cap useage -10% Powergrid requirements I vote for A myself. But the 425 needs more like 50% increase to even match the tracking of its L energy equivelent the Thachyon. AFAIK it's .0022 for 425, .0033 for Thachyons. Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Kesh Inehre	Posted - 2003.10.16 17:56:00 - [52] I wish I had known about this sooner. The nerf hit just as I got my ship and large hybrid skill. Plz TomB: Show Hybrids Some Love! -Kesh
Lentia	Posted - 2003.10.16 18:12:00 - [53] This post just keeps going. Obviously Hybrids are kinds messed up. Its rare to see a Mega or Dom with hybrids now. I have gunnery 5 and havent bothered to train large hybrids yet. I'm actually training up energy weapons now and find that the med lasers hit way more consistently and not having to use ammo is a huge convenience. The cap is suprisingly the same. Also thinking about forgetting Gallente alltogether and training up Amarr http://coldfusion.online-guild.com/
Lartfor	Posted - 2003.10.16 18:25:00 - [54] Edited by: Lartfor on 16/10/2003 18:28:33 425mm would be fine IF it got 30% more tracking, because it has a low req, the problem is that gal has no weapon to match the 1400mm howizter or the tach laser. The 425mm rail is more on par with the mega beam and 1200 artilary. All i sugest is, give the 425mm like 30% more tracking and introduce a 500mm rail that is on par with 1400mm howizter and tach. Here are some experimental stats 500mm Rail Cannon Dmg mod: 3.8 Rof: 11.5 Cap usage: 46 Range: 56000 optimal, 25000 fall out. Tracking: .0033 (same as tach) Pwr grd usage: 3425 Cpu: 55 I think that this weapon should hold 15 shots. A weaponlike this has a quite high req for Gal ships so probably only 1-3 would be able to be fitted to a megathron. Personally i think adding another Rail class weapon would basically allow for a more diversified load out, and balance rails. I can see equiping 2 500mm rails 4 425mm rails, a dual 250mm rail, and a torp.
Doc Brown	Posted - 2003.10.16 19:36:00 - [55] Edited by: Doc Brown on 16/10/2003 19:44:27 You know..Adding new hybrid types (i.e. 500 mm rail) isn't going to change anything. All that adding new guns will do is make the balancing even harder. I think that the present guns need a slight bost in 2 or 3 of their stats.. not much more than that otherwise the scales will tip too much in favor of hybrids. more suggestion: Adjustment C: +25% Tracking +5-10% dmg or +5-10% ROF -5% Cap use _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.16 20:01:00 - [56] We don't need a hybrid with longer range than the 425mm hybrid. We need something that hits good, often, and hard at 20km. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
James Hawkings	Posted - 2003.10.16 20:48:00 - [57] i use neutron cannons and they miss pretty often against battleships at their optimal range. which is litlte above 1 with AM. kinda ****es me off so i'm going to switch over to mega pulse and see if i can hit more consitently. my real beef is that they don't hit any where near as often as other guns. any dev mind telling us why? ~Built Hauler Tough~ ~Dazed and Confused Currently~
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.16 21:44:00 - [58] Lasers/projectiles have such versatility - they have short, medium, and long-range guns which do good damage versus requirements. Hybrids have stupidly short-range guns which, admittedly, do good damage when they hit or long-range guns which barely hit and don't do much damage. Blasters are good when you get up close and dirty but, by the time you're up close, those tachyons have decimated your shields. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.10.17 15:38:00 - [59] Bump This subject does NOT die until hybrids get fixed. It is just too bizarre that the turret preference for 1/2 the races is bolloxed. BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Kram Calama	Posted - 2003.10.17 16:27:00 - [60] Personally I wouldn't even consider using 425's at the moment and as most pvp battleship encounters tend to be within the 20km range I prefer to use heavy blasters. Only when they sort the lag/warp in/gate camp issues and we can actually plan for battles using long range will the ineffectiveness of the 425's really show. Basically I totally agree that 425's need a hell of a lot of love! Station camping, ship jamming, forum spamming, milk drinking, deep thinking, gooner loving, goat hugging, pirate killer............AVE IT LARGE!!!!
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.10.17 18:08:00 - [61] Quote: Personally I wouldn't even consider using 425's at the moment and as most pvp battleship encounters tend to be within the 20km range I prefer to use heavy blasters. The problem is the fall-off of L blasters is nasty. Encounters are usually at 15-25 KM range, and without using a MWD (1/2 your shields and 1/4 your cap goodbye) you'll never close within optimal range in PvP. Hybrids are messed, range either to far or too near. Plain and simple. Dual 250s would be a goodish compromise if L ammo wasn't so huge, making D 250s totally impractical. BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Troezar	Posted - 2003.10.17 23:56:00 - [62] Just sitting on hybrids waiting for them to be improved and steadily increasing my skills. Iwas surprised to find a 250mm proto does about the same damage as teh 425's whcih can't be right
Kesh Inehre	Posted - 2003.10.18 21:02:00 - [63] bump
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.18 22:36:00 - [64] I think hybrids are due to have their turn at being the best? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
agrizla	Posted - 2003.10.18 23:07:00 - [65] Quote: I think hybrids are due to have their turn at being the best? I've given up on waiting and have decided to get one of each BS - that way I can use what weapons haven't been nerfed until my subs run out. This game is getting way too close to EnB for my liking
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.19 08:23:00 - [66] agrizla, I'm beginning to wish I'd gone for the Tempest because I just love projectiles. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
SpawnMaster	Posted - 2003.10.19 09:06:00 - [67] Show them some love CCP. They seriously need it cos they suck big time. ------------------------------------------------ The sky is not the limit. Your only limited by your mind...
Centuri	Posted - 2003.10.19 11:15:00 - [68] Quote: I found it interesting to note that the projectiles, with their supposed poor tracking, did not miss a shot while the blasters, with "decent" tracking, missed 5. If both your ship and the can were stationary then tracking would be an irrelevant variable most likely, if you were orbiting on both tests though i dunno
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.19 15:06:00 - [69] bump LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Bobith	Posted - 2003.10.19 17:25:00 - [70] I like hybrids but there just getting worse i do a average of 60-80damage a hit with 250's i have other in my corp useing M lasers doing over 100 every hit same with projectials.
Retalq	Posted - 2003.10.19 17:36:00 - [71] Boost hybrids plz or atlest lets get soem devs tellinus there being worked on.
Egil FrostPaw	Posted - 2003.10.19 18:54:00 - [72] I totally agree make hybrids more fearsome.
Inquisitor Lord	Posted - 2003.10.19 19:15:00 - [73] Quote: I totally agree make hybrids more fearsome. I don't know if you can make them "more" fearsome as they are pretty much a joke now.
Lady Evil	Posted - 2003.10.19 19:23:00 - [74] Can we get a dev responce pwease!
James Hawkings	Posted - 2003.10.20 02:15:00 - [75] now if only the devs actually checked the boards......... ~Built Hauler Tough~ ~Dazed and Confused Currently~
Bobith	Posted - 2003.10.20 04:12:00 - [76] Devs check the board its just they allmost never respond.
Retalq	Posted - 2003.10.20 14:06:00 - [77] This needs another Bump We need love and hybrids need love.
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.10.20 18:41:00 - [78] Quote: now if only the devs actually checked the boards......... I don't know what's up. TomB used to check this forum all the time, and actually listen and even comment... Maybe he's on vacation or something, or maybe the tech II is just keeping the devular types too busy ATM..... As someone else said, Ýt's not like I'm going to throw my 425 BP away, but I am training up my energy skills from zero pretty much, and if the fix takes a long time I'll be yet another guy with Thachyons on a Gallente ship... Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.21 11:11:00 - [79] The name hybrid suggests the guns should use the best features of laser/projectile and therefore settle somewhere in the middle of both, non? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.10.21 21:18:00 - [80] My theory is that they are so wrapped up in the Amarr succcession nothing else is registering... BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Naru Kraurr	Posted - 2003.10.22 14:03:00 - [81] PLease turn 425's into something other than stuff that's waiting to be recycled. Please
Khar'du	Posted - 2003.10.22 15:50:00 - [82] Anyone not happy with their 250's or 425's can dump them in a secure container in amarr system and mail me the password. I use them all the time and cant get enough of them (literally) since i lose some now and then. Many thanks
Nervar	Posted - 2003.10.24 01:54:00 - [83] bumperCar -------------------------------------------------> What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
Miri Tirzan	Posted - 2003.10.24 09:54:00 - [84] BUMP Lets keep this topic near the top till something is done. svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.24 10:38:00 - [85] Please please please make hybrids worth using! Give them the power boost they deserve considering they require ammo AND cap! LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Fuse	Posted - 2003.10.24 10:51:00 - [86] Edited by: Fuse on 24/10/2003 10:54:49 I really hope the DevÆs donÆt decide to nerf lasers because the hybrids suck. Why the h3ll would anyone want to manufacture hybrid ammo and drag it around and use it? IÆm not going to go in to a rant hereà Just fix it DevÆs. Drop the love of lasers or allow all battleships to use lasers giving them different bonuses for using them. There is another post related to this here it is http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=38530#16
TIvian	Posted - 2003.10.24 11:03:00 - [87] I hate to say it but I was on Chaos server and I don't think that Hybrids are getting any love. I for one and very bumed about this. I was hoping for better ROF and just and or just a tad bit higher damage mod. Common CCP HYBRID LOVE PLEASE!!!! (\_/) (O.o) (> <) Teh Uber Asheron's Call Bunny Booty WTFPWNZ you!!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.24 22:31:00 - [88] That sucks. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Ranx Xerox	Posted - 2003.10.27 12:57:00 - [89] CCP give more respect to gallente !!! Give us Real Hybrids Guns with Damage mods = to their descriptions !!! For having them usable we need to have them making 2 times same damages mod !!! Maybe decrease by 2 the range or give us a special mod upgrade for hybrids making 0.50 % range and 2.0 damage
Kaylon Syi	Posted - 2003.10.27 20:52:00 - [90] I use 1200mm Cannons on my DOMINIX LOL. Hybrids do need attention but by the time they do I will have my Minmitar BS skill ( 7 more days ) and Amarr BS ( 14 more days ) trained and to lvl 4 and never touch another Gal BS again. Dual 250mm rails would be nice but if i am gonna sit at 24km im not gonna let my cap drain. Same thing with 4k range... Hybrids miss to many shots and thats 12 - 30 cap per shot... every 3 or so seconds and if you miss you still eat cap... HELLO DEVS ?!?! I have sat perfectly still at a can in my perfect range and missed 6 out of 10 shots. While the Damage was excellent... if i am using "lets say 25 cap" thats 250 cap for 4 shots hitting target... SCREW THAT ... ill it at 35 - 40k with Projectiles and deal 300 + damage at the cost of 2.4 cap and span that over 4 to 5 guns. let my mids have a breath of fresh air. Build it and they will come... Fix it or they will die.
Persephonie	Posted - 2003.10.28 01:52:00 - [91] Im sure that Hybrids are not supposed to be the best guns as they are a "hybrid" of lazer and projectile therefore should be inbetween in damage. I cant comment for the battleships as i dont fly one but for the cruisers this is the case. Im sure this is how its supposed to be no? The point is that the lazers use up the most power but do a lot of damage (mainly to shields) The projectiles use the least power and do more hull damage. Hybrids are a mixture of these two weapons. Well just what i thought, though again i say i cant comment for the battleships. Though all your complaining has got me training Large lazer heehh
Symeonis Porphory	Posted - 2003.10.28 10:51:00 - [92] Quote: Im sure that Hybrids are not supposed to be the best guns as they are a "hybrid" of lazer and projectile therefore should be inbetween in damage. Perhaps; the combination might also result in greater damage. Quote: The point is that the lazers use up the most power but do a lot of damage (mainly to shields) The projectiles use the least power and do more hull damage. Hybrids are a mixture of these two weapons. Yes, one would expect it to do some mixed damage because of this. Other then that, the mix can be anything: the hybrid can be the average of projectile and laser (doing inbetween damage, with inbetween range and cost), but it can also be the sum of the two (costing heaps of power, doing a lot of damage etc). Any combo is valid to explain the "hybrid" theme; it does not have to be the average weapon. That said, hybrid should of course not be the best gun. It should be a different gun, performing just as well as the other two, so that the choice for laser/hybrid/projectile would be based on personal preference instead of one being simply the best (or the worst).
Ranx Xerox	Posted - 2003.10.29 16:28:00 - [93] Yes strange to think that a species will choose to create a gun for themself working worse that the 2 others species, with less damages that the worse one, and more cap need that the worse one :)
Nervar	Posted - 2003.10.29 21:09:00 - [94] Well just finished Large lasers, stuck some mega beams on and went to find a spawn. And even at large lasers lvl 1 they out dmg 425 rails by far.. I hit almost everytime with an tracking comp on, wich was rearly with the 425 rail. -------------------------------------------------> What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
Lentia	Posted - 2003.10.30 20:08:00 - [95] I fly a dominix and theoretically I should get a hybrid bonus. Even with a tracking computer results were extremely variable. Half the time they would miss but not the cap drain. Making and hauling and reloading ammo all sucks. Now I use mega beams and hit from 30k, dont bother with shields, ammo, reloading, or tracking computers, and I'm doing far more damage more consistently. Practically every1 in a gallente or caldari BS is using lasers. How many amarians are using hybrids?(none). What does that tell ya? Lentia Military Officer http://www.staf.online-guild.com/
Ranx Xerox	Posted - 2003.10.31 10:16:00 - [96] Can i have a patch for being caldari with the guns bonus coming with ??? ;)
Butch99	Posted - 2003.10.31 10:47:00 - [97] I agree Hybrid weapons needs some love, both tracking & Dmg.
Omnitech CEO	Posted - 2003.10.31 22:59:00 - [98] The only reason I prefer lasers is cos they dont need ammo.
Vasudan	Posted - 2003.11.01 07:48:00 - [99] Yeah, I agree. I must be one of the few people who actually use 425's on my Megathron. Have Gallente BS lvl4, surgical Strike lvl4 and Large Hybrid lvl4 and average 150-200 with antimatter and still miss quite a bit at optimal range. Hybrid uses just can't compete with lasers even at high skill levels. The short experiment I had with lasers I was able to better my above hybrid damages with only lvl2 large laser. Hybrids need a damage and tracking boost, final. Also the idea of adding a hybrid (500mm) for example to match the Tachyon would be a nice touch too. My 2 cents on the issue. Vas.
Babar	Posted - 2003.11.02 01:40:00 - [100] So.. Let's boost tracking and dmg mod on the 425mm to the same as a mega beam? Granted, with enough gallente pilot skill, that will totally pwn! Even today, with gallente bs2, base dmg / rof is equal to the mega beam, using 55% the cap. (Assuming relevant skills at lvl2, and laser mounted on an amarr ship.) With relevant skills at level 5, also using current stats, base dmg / rof is greater for the 425mm than for a tachyon.. 2.5 * 1.25 / 9 = 0.3472, vs. 4.25 / 12.5 = 0.34 on tach.. The 425mm would use 35 * 0.75 / 9 = 2.9 energy / sec, vs. 125 * 0.75 * 0.75 / 12.5 = 5.6 for the tach, that's 52% the energy cost.. ____ But ok, let's do it. 425mm now has 0.0033 tracking and 2.75 base damage. And you guys don't have to worry about fitting those annoying tracking-computer-thingies anymore. I've never looked into blasters, but with 50% better tracking and range, those shouldn't be too bad either? _____ There!, I've fixed hybrids. Now you guys tell me how to make lasers viable, considering they use twice the cap and don't have a damage bonus of up to 25%..
Babar	Posted - 2003.11.02 02:14:00 - [101] Quote: So.. Let's boost tracking and dmg mod on the 425mm to the same as a mega beam? snip Now you guys tell me how to make lasers viable, considering they use twice the cap and don't have a damage bonus of up to 25%.. Actually, projectiles are a tad overpowered currently, considering they use no cap and the Tempest adds 10% damage per skill level. Maybe the other turrets could use a little boost.. I wouldn't mind them beefing the 425mm to mega beam stats if they gave amarr some love as well.. Let's start by increasing the ship bonus to 10%, to decrease cap usage of a mega beam to the same as a 425mm. (with lvl5 pilot skill, at least) Then there's only the 25% bonus to hybrid damage to make up for.. 10% increased cap recharge on all amarr ships would negate the extra cap usage from adding a 10% heat sink (10% increase in fire rate), which, counting the 10% increased damage per shot as well, adds up to 20% more damage. 5% less than gallente, which is fair enough i guess, considering we don't need ammo. Unfortunately, there's the stacking nerf to think about, and even laser users tend to have a heatsink fitted already, so.. Oh well.. Time for bed.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.11.02 09:30:00 - [102] Quote: So.. Let's boost tracking and dmg mod on the 425mm to the same as a mega beam? Granted, with enough gallente pilot skill, that will totally pwn! Even today, with gallente bs2, base dmg / rof is equal to the mega beam, using 55% the cap. (Assuming relevant skills at lvl2, and laser mounted on an amarr ship.) With relevant skills at level 5, also using current stats, base dmg / rof is greater for the 425mm than for a tachyon.. 2.5 * 1.25 / 9 = 0.3472, vs. 4.25 / 12.5 = 0.34 on tach.. The 425mm would use 35 * 0.75 / 9 = 2.9 energy / sec, vs. 125 * 0.75 * 0.75 / 12.5 = 5.6 for the tach, that's 52% the energy cost.. ____ But ok, let's do it. 425mm now has 0.0033 tracking and 2.75 base damage. And you guys don't have to worry about fitting those annoying tracking-computer-thingies anymore. I've never looked into blasters, but with 50% better tracking and range, those shouldn't be too bad either? _____ There!, I've fixed hybrids. Now you guys tell me how to make lasers viable, considering they use twice the cap and don't have a damage bonus of up to 25%.. They don't need a damage boost (average damage of 450+?) and the cap issue is solved very easily (several friends can run 4 tachyons constantly). People say "Armour will protect you against tachyons" but it is pure bull**. Tachyons hit SO hard that even the 60% EM resist does little to affect it simply because damage bleeds through to structure which has NO resist to any damage type. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!**
Butch99	Posted - 2003.11.04 11:28:00 - [103] Bump, Hybrids still needs a boost
John McCreedy	Posted - 2003.11.04 13:52:00 - [104] Bump - lets keep this going.. Make a difference
Nirvy	Posted - 2003.11.04 14:52:00 - [105] Quote: Quote: So.. Let's boost tracking and dmg mod on the 425mm to the same as a mega beam? snip Now you guys tell me how to make lasers viable, considering they use twice the cap and don't have a damage bonus of up to 25%.. Actually, projectiles are a tad overpowered currently, considering they use no cap and the Tempest adds 10% damage per skill level. Maybe the other turrets could use a little boost.. I wouldn't mind them beefing the 425mm to mega beam stats if they gave amarr some love as well.. Let's start by increasing the ship bonus to 10%, to decrease cap usage of a mega beam to the same as a 425mm. (with lvl5 pilot skill, at least) Then there's only the 25% bonus to hybrid damage to make up for.. 10% increased cap recharge on all amarr ships would negate the extra cap usage from adding a 10% heat sink (10% increase in fire rate), which, counting the 10% increased damage per shot as well, adds up to 20% more damage. 5% less than gallente, which is fair enough i guess, considering we don't need ammo. Unfortunately, there's the stacking nerf to think about, and even laser users tend to have a heatsink fitted already, so.. Oh well.. Time for bed. The tempest's bonus is 5% to Dmg and 5% to Rof. NOT 10% to damage. Projectiles are very well balanced with Lasers, its just the hybrids that are crappy. Mercenary \| The Azath
Miso	Posted - 2003.11.04 15:34:00 - [106] Bump also - i use hybrids on the thorax - great for nnpc hunting, appalling for PvP. The whole point of a hybrid round was that it was so devasting. Lets make it devasting CCP! -------------------------------------------- Dead
xeno calligan	Posted - 2003.11.04 16:11:00 - [107] Edited by: xeno calligan on 04/11/2003 16:33:55 I think the devs need to make up their minds about hybrids -- what exactly are we supposed to get for using ammo as well as about 50% of the cap consumption for an "equivalent" laser?? Futhermore, the range bonus/penalty on lasers (wrt. freq crystals) is a bit FUBAR: -40% to +60% on lasers vs. -50% to +30% on hybrids. If you compare this as a caldari with e.g. battleship lvl 4, you get the equivalent of -40% to +56% which is allmost the same. I'd say that alone pretty much eats up the "bonus" for caldari ships. Never mind that the damage drops to 1/3 with the Iron charges for extreme ranges. Rails weren't meant to be sniper weapons, it seems. To sum up the features of hybrids: Uses ammo like projectiles. Uses about 50% of the cap of an "equivalent" laser. Worse DOT. No variation in damage types at all -- 50/50 all the way. Munition range penalties are the same as projectiles. The damage drops drasticly as the range of the munitions improves, just like projectiles -- all the way down to 1/3. Lasers drop to 2/3 with much greater range. So where is the love? It's not in the ca. 15% lower req'd. grid (compared to projectiles).
Babar	Posted - 2003.11.04 16:38:00 - [108] Edited by: Babar on 06/11/2003 11:43:13 Quote: Quote: Actually, projectiles are a tad overpowered currently, considering they use no cap and the Tempest adds 10% damage per skill level. The tempest's bonus is 5% to Dmg and 5% to Rof. NOT 10% to damage. Ok.. What if i say: "..and the Tempest will increase your damage output by slightly more than 10% per Minmatar bs skill level.." Better now? ;) Edit: Not that slightly, actually. For a 1400mm, lvl5 bs skill adds 66% over base dot. But you still need to hit stuff to do damage, of course.
Stepping Razor	Posted - 2003.11.05 17:12:00 - [109] The dev chat is promising love with Tech II. But will that be Tech II hybrids, or fixes to existing one? Razor Originally by: Bonaventure Phaidon CCP is the best at at least three things: 1. Really, really fun gameplay 2. Good forum presence 3. Inventing new and exciting ways to bring about in-game catacly
Scragg	Posted - 2003.11.05 19:27:00 - [110] Be nice to see hybrids do a bit more damage and have a few ammo types that do EM damage at a decent range. I'd love to be a pure hybrid wielding Caldari purist ship but it makes no sense with how they do damage. Scragg, Tyrell Corporation Vice-Director Military Operations
ZzeusS	Posted - 2003.11.05 20:56:00 - [111] I'm a Caldari newb, just getting into medium hybrids.. haven't decided on a specific weapon just yet. The way hybrids sounded to me based on in-game descriptions was that they were supposed to deal the most close range damage out of everything. Hope hybrids get some lovin because I would much rather upgrade to Large skill and have all the prereqs already met, then to completely retrain everything for Laser or Projectile.. I mean, Large1, Medium2, and a couple Low.. just to use one different Large device.. freaking would take forever.
Ranx Xerox	Posted - 2003.11.06 10:54:00 - [112] I GOT THE FIX : Seems that Gal BS are very good with Small hybrids turrets, you should try it fix the tracking speed problem, cost no grid, no cpu then you can fit 7 on mega without any power mod and make really more damage that 425 at short range *LOL*
Gaheris	Posted - 2003.11.06 11:16:00 - [113] Quote: I GOT THE FIX : Seems that Gal BS are very good with Small hybrids turrets, you should try it fix the tracking speed problem, cost no grid, no cpu then you can fit 7 on mega without any power mod and make really more damage that 425 at short range *LOL* you know, i actually considered that, but then i figured it would just be a ridiculous solution.. wouldnt it...
Sphinx Faerie	Posted - 2003.11.06 14:42:00 - [114] Yeha, this sux.. I'm gallente, but I think I will start train Laser instead, I got Large Hybrid skill though.. But I cant see why I shall use hybrid, The ammo is annoying, all u need for lasers is the crystal, nothing more, and a laser is Alot better than Hybrid.. I dont get it! Any plans for changing the hybrid damage? Or it will result in no one use them..
Stepping Razor	Posted - 2003.11.06 15:30:00 - [115] Edited by: Stepping Razor on 06/11/2003 15:32:57 Quote: I GOT THE FIX : Seems that Gal BS are very good with Small hybrids turrets, you should try it fix the tracking speed problem, cost no grid, no cpu then you can fit 7 on mega without any power mod and make really more damage that 425 at short range *LOL* ROFL. It's true tho. I've actually gone out and NPC farmed with 6 M rails (loot ones natch). Way, way better than the L equivelent, plus a hold full of ammo will last all day.] Of course, subbing 2 of those rails for Tachyons does even better..... Razor Originally by: Bonaventure Phaidon CCP is the best at at least three things: 1. Really, really fun gameplay 2. Good forum presence 3. Inventing new and exciting ways to bring about in-game catacly
Ring	Posted - 2003.11.06 20:26:00 - [116] bump "i thank you from the bottom of my pitch-black heart"

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