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Banni Vinda
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Posted - 2006.07.08 09:01:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Betonela
Edited by: Betonela on 08/07/2006 06:12:20
bla bla bla steling ore whitout petition u can get banned oO
ok now give me a link where dev say that and give me the EULA Quote
Read this thread. For anyone who can't be arsed to read the whole thing, basically the thread is just like this one. The final post is from ISD, so read that one at least.
Linkage
Prosecution rests :)
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Novarei
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Posted - 2006.07.08 09:33:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Banni Vinda
Originally by: Betonela
Edited by: Betonela on 08/07/2006 06:12:20
bla bla bla steling ore whitout petition u can get banned oO
ok now give me a link where dev say that and give me the EULA Quote
Read this thread. For anyone who can't be arsed to read the whole thing, basically the thread is just like this one. The final post is from ISD, so read that one at least.
Linkage
Prosecution rests :)
1: He's a forum mod only.
2: He said nothing conclusive.
3: He's giving general advice; 'better safe than sorry' kind of remark.
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Grashopper
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Posted - 2006.07.08 10:15:00 -
[33]
what type of petition actually ?
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.07.08 10:17:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Grashopper
what type of petition actually ?
Exploit
New sig coming soonÖ
By "soon" I do not necessarily mean "this year" |
lisacurie
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Posted - 2006.07.08 10:34:00 -
[35]
Originally by: St Dragon
Originally by: Lord Frost
Ummm... simple... just say you're an ore thief... that's a legit business in this game. If it happens to be a macrominer, then say "OOPS... I didn't know that"... if CCP knew that, then why in the heck are they macromining? ... since it is a bannable offense.
That pretty much shows how things are technically you are acting the ore thief all ccp asks you to do is petition suspected macro miners so they can investigate.
And all the blatent macro miners that ive reported in the last year are still active I dont petition now just steal. If I've reported them and ccp deem them not macrominers then what are they gonna do - say oh we made a mistake they really were macros?
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ceaon
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Posted - 2006.07.08 11:54:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Banni Vinda
Originally by: Betonela
Edited by: Betonela on 08/07/2006 06:12:20
bla bla bla steling ore whitout petition u can get banned oO
ok now give me a link where dev say that and give me the EULA Quote
Read this thread. For anyone who can't be arsed to read the whole thing, basically the thread is just like this one. The final post is from ISD, so read that one at least.
Linkage
Prosecution rests :)
and how u know if is a macro or a fair miner ?
on mmorpg.comEvE get 8,3 
kill alt post |
he slag
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Posted - 2006.07.08 12:25:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 08/07/2006 01:44:33
Originally by: he slag
It's not like CCP would know if you know they are a macro or not.
They can't expect people to be macro detectors, as it is not our job. If they are playing the game, I'd just assume they are legally playing as CCP has allowed them to do so.
The burden of keeping macros out of the game is not on the player.
Doesn't work like that.
CCP know that people who engage in regular ore theft know exactly what to look for.
There is an understanding between the two sides.
CCP have stated in the past that much of their best info on macro-miners comes from "ore relocation specialist's" petitions
Ignorance may be accepted as an excuse once .. but in all honesty I wouldn't bet my account on it.
I wouldn't bet my account on it no.
I don't accept that every ore thief knows exactly what to look for, or if they should be required to distinguish between a macro or not.
To me it is as simple as seeing a can and stealing from it. Who owns it is irrelevant. Some people whinge and convo you, some don't. Some people are just retarded and absent minded when it comes to mining. Some have just given up trying to beat the ore thief.
Also, it strikes me as a bit odd that you may not steal from a macro unless you have petitioned it.
If you report a macro and steal from them, you are knowingly profiting from an exploiter. This seems as bad as macroing yourself.
I do think it should be a requirement for anyone clued up in knowing what is and isn't a macro to report it, as it does detract from the game.
I don't, however, think the burden should be on the player to be macro police and have to go out of their way to accomodate the GM's inability to track macros effectively.
Essentially this all boils down to people's intentions, which aren't always clear cut and thus should not be a basis for a judgement(such as banning).
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Traellium
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Posted - 2006.07.08 14:36:00 -
[38]
When in doubt, just fire on the cargo container. Real pirates don't take hostages, and the rice gets wet and blows a hole in the hull when it expands. They do like blowing things up though 
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.07.08 14:49:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Jacob Holland
It gets greyer the further down the line you go however, if you buy minerals from an order which just happens to have been set using ore mined using macros, if you buy a ship made with those minerals... and so on.
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Tommy TenKreds
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Posted - 2006.07.08 15:01:00 -
[40]
I declare this thread officially horse-****. Whether someone macro-mines or otherwise is not my responsibility to police.. EVER.
Nor should I need to employ a frikkin lawyer to keep me apprised of forum amendments to the EULA. Do you know how many thousands of players never even visit the forums?
Puh-lease. 
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Zanon Xiu
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Posted - 2006.07.09 01:56:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Zanon Xiu on 09/07/2006 01:57:26
well we are now using new tactics.
we steal the ore by nagging some and putting all their ore in our can, then we simply blow it up.
good thing is by suck actions some of em were not in lirs today, making the corpies that do honest buisness in that solar system happy to know one day there will be roids to mine.
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Milera
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Posted - 2006.07.09 03:12:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Milera on 09/07/2006 03:13:59
Bah, I don't know enough about the EULA to analyze it myself (Does anyone read those damn things? I try, but usualy loose concentration by paragraph three), but as to the "how do you find a macrominer" point, I have some expertise in this subject.
I used to be a macrominer, not in EVE, but in another game (Runescape, if you want to know). I will make this clear, I was not a sweatshopper, or an ebayer. I programmed my own scripts, and I used these programs for my own benefit. I stopped macroing because it was taking the fun out of the game. I thought that I would have fun getting the benefits without the hard work. Hell, was I wrong.
But that's in the past, and not directly connected. EVE has fairly simplistic anti-macro systems (No offense CCP), and that makes macrominers a lot more comfortable. As such, they stop programming in sa***uards. Best way to tell a macrominer is if you bump them. And they don't message you. Most players will get ****ed. Now because of EVE's overveiw system, moving their can is not very effective, the macro can always use a rightclick command on the can in the overveiw. But, again, usualy the player will yell at you, but make sure to wait at least one mining cycle, because some players won't notice that their can is suddenly sprouting engines and moving untill they see it.
Another way is to open their cans. Almost every player will notice that someone tried to steal their loot. Just take one ore and watch. If they yell at you/shoot you, you know that they are most likely not macroers. No garuntee though, they could just be a really absent minded player.
The surefire way is to look at the server logs, but only CCP has access to those. *shrug* Those are my 2ISK from my previous "life" as a macroer on another game. By the way, before any idiots reading this post get the idea that I'll teach them how to program macros, the answer is no. Macroing takes the fun out of your game, everyone else's game, as well as risking your credit card getting banned from EVE.
Through war we eliminate the weak, through war we develop technology, through war we hone our skills. Is it not a surprise that those who fight are strongest? |
Viktor Fyretracker
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Posted - 2006.07.09 03:22:00 -
[43]
easy way to tell a macro, if the name is letters and numbers its probally a macro. if the name is a word then its probally a player.
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d00bld0ze
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Posted - 2006.07.09 03:59:00 -
[44]
How can I know someone is macrominer?
1. I'm a GM and I've the tool to look into the logs
2. I'm a friend of the macrominer
Therefore, banishing is normal
I'm not persuaded that it's a valid tactic to report:
-Hey CCP, I'm a macro miner and this Guy stole my ore. Ban him!
English learning / Rank 20 / SP: 69 of 5000  |
Drizit
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Posted - 2006.07.09 04:52:00 -
[45]
Originally by: d00bld0ze
How can I know someone is macrominer?
1. I'm a GM and I've the tool to look into the logs
2. I'm a friend of the macrominer
I'm a GM and I have a tool that allows me to remote view a location. They can secretly watch any system of the game they choose.
Originally by: d00bld0ze
I'm not persuaded that it's a valid tactic to report:
-Hey CCP, I'm a macro miner and this Guy stole my ore. Ban him!
Now that would be funny
TBH, if you've reported them in the past and they are still mining now, obviously CCP has determined that they are a valid player so it's open season anyway.
Those that say we are not here to police the game, that's true in some sense but you can't expect the GM's to watch everyone at once. Therefore alerting them to a possible macro miner allows them to refine their view to a certain area. It's ony like seeing a guy getting mugged and calling the police to go check it out, you are not policing the streets but you are making it better for those who want to walk the streets in safety including yourself. Same goes here, you are helping to rid the game of cheats and exploits to make the game better for legitimate players including yourself.
--
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Corunna ElMan
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Posted - 2006.07.09 05:47:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Avon
Stealing ore from a macrominer without petitioning it first can get you warned and/or banned.
You are not allowed to profit from macros, even if it isn't you running them.
Care to tell me what means I have for detecting macros... that aren't available to CCP staff?
If CCP can detect them and has done nothing about it, then they are making a very real profit off macros.
I'd like to see how you care to rationalize them turning a blind eye to macro miners and punishing their legitimate customers for the same thing.
If I were banned for doing something that's permitted by game mechanics, while they knowingly allowed someone to continue to violate the EULA, I'd simply take my money to another game. I know my $30 a month isn't much in the grand scheme of things, but right now it's $30 that SOE isn't able to spend, if you know what I mean.
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Darktec
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Posted - 2006.07.09 05:51:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Zanon Xiu
had someone tell me you can get banned from stealing ore from macrominers, if they are reported you can get banned if the backlogs show you taking ore from their can and ccp cannot distinguish a player from a macrominer.
is this true, can people get banned from making their wallets fat from macrominers if the macrominer gets banned?
To the op. That whole statement is BS, even before i pititioned them, i stole from the macro miners that invaded the system i live in, and the gm's that looked at it told me to keep it up.
And anyway, stealing is a valid profession in this game, macro miner or not.
so you can NOT get banned from doing this.
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Digitalis II
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Posted - 2006.07.09 11:49:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Digitalis II on 09/07/2006 11:49:58
AS far as I can interpret this, the reason you "may be banned" for stealing from the macros isn't that you are committing a breach of the EULA yourself, but rather that it LOOKS like you are.
Examples;
1.you find macros, start taking their ore, get rich..
Now another guy comes along and sees the macros, petitions it and the GMs look into it. Macros get the ban, but in the logs and even if watched you appear to be hauling for the macros so you get the bam too.
2. all of the above happens BUT you petition first..now the record shows you weren't part of the operation and you're in the clear.
Thats just my view on the situation, not so much Wrong doing, more the possibility of mistaking ore theft for Macro hauling.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.07.09 17:54:00 -
[49]
If you 'know' they are macro mining or farming, and you just steal and never report, yes you can get in trouble.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.07.09 17:56:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Traellium
When in doubt, just fire on the cargo container. Real pirates don't take hostages, and the rice gets wet and blows a hole in the hull when it expands. They do like blowing things up though
Says who? Pirates ransomed the hell out of nobles and merchants back in the day.
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Darktec
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Posted - 2006.07.09 18:28:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
If you 'know' they are macro mining or farming, and you just steal and never report, yes you can get in trouble.
well even before i reported the ones that came into my home system, i stole from them, its good money, i knew they were macro miners and i stole from them, when i finally did pitition the gm....
Names have been changed.
Me : mm1, mm2, mm3 are back in the system, why havent they been banned yet?
GM: We are still currently looking at their logs to decide our next course of action.
ME: thats cool , cause imma keep stealing from them till you ban them,its good money
GM: Hehe, good to know. =)
He knew id been stealing from them since b4 i pititoned.
Stealing is legal in this game, macro miner or not, so even if they had regular names and you stole from them, they turn out to be macro miners, you get banned?
i dont think so.
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Kim Chee
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Posted - 2006.07.09 19:38:00 -
[52]
It's not THAT complicated.
Macro miners are evil. They unbalance the game by selling minerals in larger than normally possible quantities (and then sell the macro-generated ISK for real life money).
There are two ways to punish them for their foolishness. One is to blow them up. That's the most fun, but hard to do im Empire space for those of us who don't want to fork out cash for a fleet of suicide kestrals. The other is to constantly take their ore.
The problem is, if you don't petition CCP that you're about to do it... they can't tell if you're trying to punish the macro miner, or if you're working with them by taking your "cut" to leave them alone. THAT is why you can get banned if you don't petition.
So the best way to handle it is:
1. Petition.
2. Loot.
3. Loot again.
...
41. Loot some more.
42. Suicide kestral them into oblivion.
<=----=>
Vila Restal: I'm entitled to my opinion.
Kerr Avon: It is your assumption that we are entitled to it as well that is irritating.
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St Dragon
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Posted - 2006.07.09 19:52:00 -
[53]
It seems a lot of peaole have no idea at all.
Its not ok to steal ore from a macro without petitioning it as thats considered profiting off a exploit.
Its ok to steal ore from a macro if you petition when you belive its a macro [according to the GM's doing this is not considered profiting of a exploit].
If you see a lone can in space abandoned its ok to take it no need to petition even if it WAS from a macr because its just an abandoned can.
Its that easy if in doubt petition the guy.
-----------------------------------------------
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
Corunna ElMan
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Posted - 2006.07.09 21:47:00 -
[54]
You miss the important detail:
You cannot tell with certainty that someone is using a macro. If you could, the GMs wouldn't have so many problems trying to confirm a course of action on the issue.
Since you cannot say that someone is definitely a macro user, all you're doing is stealing from another player - which is permitted by the very way the game works.
If YOU can't prove that your victim is a macro user, how in the hell can anyone else prove that you knowingly profitted off of an exploit? Stealing ore from anyone's can is not an exploit.
Until CCP gives ME the tools to establish beyond a doubt that someone is a macro user, I'm forced to treat them as a legitimate player.
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Buster Bloodvessel
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Posted - 2006.07.09 22:07:00 -
[55]
I can't believe it just ate another ******* reply. I hate this bastard forum aaaargh!
wystler stole my sig |
Tension
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Posted - 2006.07.09 22:35:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Banni Vinda
Originally by: Betonela
Edited by: Betonela on 08/07/2006 06:12:20
bla bla bla steling ore whitout petition u can get banned oO
ok now give me a link where dev say that and give me the EULA Quote
Read this thread. For anyone who can't be arsed to read the whole thing, basically the thread is just like this one. The final post is from ISD, so read that one at least.
Linkage
Prosecution rests :)
Exhibit B
That's from the help channel back in January this year. Seems ISD aren't consistent on the matter...
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Rumbaar
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Posted - 2006.07.10 01:53:00 -
[57]
What a crock even the idea of banning people from stealing ORE from a macro's jet-can.
Like already said it's not our job to work out who or what is on the other side of the ships controls...
But that said in a system my Corp CEO has petitioned macros named Frank1-8 and Streetboy1-8 ... after a week they're still there, plus all the other jgongjognongjo macros. Now that's at least 8 accounts, 8 X $14.95 isn't something CCP is going to give up in a hurry anytime soon, let alone ban actual players.
I might take up ORE 'recovery' as a income stream :) Other than mining myself...
Looking for custom banners? click above, Feedback section. |
Hammer Smash
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Posted - 2006.07.10 06:02:00 -
[58]
GM's have never said that you will be banned if you steal from these macroers/farmers. Don't believe Hammer? Send in a petition to a GM and ask.
Hammer SMASH!
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