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snagging ore from macrominers = getting banned?

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Zanon Xiu	Posted - 2006.07.07 22:14:00 - [1] had someone tell me you can get banned from stealing ore from macrominers, if they are reported you can get banned if the backlogs show you taking ore from their can and ccp cannot distinguish a player from a macrominer. is this true, can people get banned from making their wallets fat from macrominers if the macrominer gets banned?
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.07.07 22:15:00 - [2] the safest way is to petition them as macro miners first then steal their stuff TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - Suvetar, care to confirm these rumours about you being an unstoppable sex machine? LOL -Suvetar
St Dragon	Posted - 2006.07.07 22:17:00 - [3] Originally by: Zanon Xiu had someone tell me you can get banned from stealing ore from macrominers, if they are reported you can get banned if the backlogs show you taking ore from their can and ccp cannot distinguish a player from a macrominer. is this true, can people get banned from making their wallets fat from macrominers if the macrominer gets banned? Its not true exactly basically all you need to do is if the people you steal from are suspected of being a macro of some sort then just Petition the GM's then you are free to steal. You basically covery yourself by doing this and even if you did not and a gm came to tell you off id doubt youd get banned. ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Zanon Xiu	Posted - 2006.07.07 22:20:00 - [4] will do, lately we ben using agressive tactics in our newb solarsystem of choice and managed to make a few of these macrominers leave, now plag is growing back and some astroidbelts look like astroidbelts we have a few more to go hopefully they will move to another system and let all thsoe who work in lirs in peace.
Jacob Holland	Posted - 2006.07.07 22:22:00 - [5] If you profit through the use of macros you're breaching the EULA, therefore selling ore mined using macros (in whatever form), whether you're part of the "operation" or not is - strictly speaking - a bannable offence. It gets greyer the further down the line you go however, if you buy minerals from an order which just happens to have been set using ore mined using macros, if you buy a ship made with those minerals... and so on. Early on, macro hunters would petition, steal ore, transfer it to their own can and destroy it, the problem didn't come up then.
St Dragon	Posted - 2006.07.07 22:24:00 - [6] Originally by: Jacob Holland If you profit through the use of macros you're breaching the EULA, therefore selling ore mined using macros (in whatever form), whether you're part of the "operation" or not is - strictly speaking - a bannable offence. It gets greyer the further down the line you go however, if you buy minerals from an order which just happens to have been set using ore mined using macros, if you buy a ship made with those minerals... and so on. Early on, macro hunters would petition, steal ore, transfer it to their own can and destroy it, the problem didn't come up then. Sorry but this is wrong If you petition ccp first then its not considered an exploit to steal from a macro. ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Zanon Xiu	Posted - 2006.07.07 22:25:00 - [7] thats what i wanted to know. is it advisable just to exchange their ore into a diff can thus making em take the risk on flagging themselves or just leave the ore there till it pops. definantly dont wanna risk myself of being banned.
Novarei	Posted - 2006.07.07 22:28:00 - [8] Originally by: Jacob Holland If you profit through the use of macros you're breaching the EULA, therefore selling ore mined using macros (in whatever form), whether you're part of the "operation" or not is - strictly speaking - a bannable offence. It gets greyer the further down the line you go however, if you buy minerals from an order which just happens to have been set using ore mined using macros, if you buy a ship made with those minerals... and so on. Early on, macro hunters would petition, steal ore, transfer it to their own can and destroy it, the problem didn't come up then. Stealing anyones ore, be it macrominer, dev or bob will not get you banned. --------------------
Sonos SAGD	Posted - 2006.07.07 22:28:00 - [9] i think that there needs to be a little human interpetaion if the macro person is named something like billy bob that could be a player that you are just gonna steal from. but if it is named something like dlafgni that is something else. ----------------------------------------------- I lost 5 sp of skill trainning time during the last patch an i demand that ccp refund it to me
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.07.07 22:34:00 - [10] Originally by: Novarei Originally by: Jacob Holland If you profit through the use of macros you're breaching the EULA, therefore selling ore mined using macros (in whatever form), whether you're part of the "operation" or not is - strictly speaking - a bannable offence. It gets greyer the further down the line you go however, if you buy minerals from an order which just happens to have been set using ore mined using macros, if you buy a ship made with those minerals... and so on. Early on, macro hunters would petition, steal ore, transfer it to their own can and destroy it, the problem didn't come up then. Stealing anyones ore, be it macrominer, dev or bob will not get you banned. Stealing ore from bob will probably make you wish you'd been banned though. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson

Coupo	Posted - 2006.07.07 22:45:00 - [11] WHO STOLE MY VELDSPAR - I Shoot first, ask questions about your veldspar mining technique later
Justus Imperius	Posted - 2006.07.07 23:08:00 - [12] Originally by: Coupo WHO STOLE MY VELDSPAR Ovuer :o Meh Idea
Lord Frost	Posted - 2006.07.08 00:42:00 - [13] Ummm... simple... just say you're an ore thief... that's a legit business in this game. If it happens to be a macrominer, then say "OOPS... I didn't know that"... if CCP knew that, then why in the heck are they macromining? ... since it is a bannable offense.
Raem Civrie	Posted - 2006.07.08 01:20:00 - [14] You can't get banned from stealing ore, be it from macrominers or not. ---- My Omber is second to none
St Dragon	Posted - 2006.07.08 01:22:00 - [15] Originally by: Lord Frost Ummm... simple... just say you're an ore thief... that's a legit business in this game. If it happens to be a macrominer, then say "OOPS... I didn't know that"... if CCP knew that, then why in the heck are they macromining? ... since it is a bannable offense. That pretty much shows how things are technically you are acting the ore thief all ccp asks you to do is petition suspected macro miners so they can investigate. ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Avon	Posted - 2006.07.08 01:22:00 - [16] Originally by: Novarei Originally by: Jacob Holland If you profit through the use of macros you're breaching the EULA, therefore selling ore mined using macros (in whatever form), whether you're part of the "operation" or not is - strictly speaking - a bannable offence. It gets greyer the further down the line you go however, if you buy minerals from an order which just happens to have been set using ore mined using macros, if you buy a ship made with those minerals... and so on. Early on, macro hunters would petition, steal ore, transfer it to their own can and destroy it, the problem didn't come up then. Stealing anyones ore, be it macrominer, dev or bob will not get you banned. Stealing ore from a macrominer without petitioning it first can get you warned and/or banned. You are not allowed to profit from macros, even if it isn't you running them. That has been the rule for a very long time now. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Fallorn	Posted - 2006.07.08 01:26:00 - [17] They arn't macro miners they just don't speak (insert English etc.) thus you are an our stealer or else they would be banned for macro mining. You are just making a profit for your self off other them.
he slag	Posted - 2006.07.08 01:33:00 - [18] It's not like CCP would know if you know they are a macro or not. They can't expect people to be macro detectors, as it is not our job. If they are playing the game, I'd just assume they are legally playing as CCP has allowed them to do so. The burden of keeping macros out of the game is not on the player.
Waenn Ironstaff	Posted - 2006.07.08 01:42:00 - [19] You guys actually check for macro-miners...? Man, when I use to steal ore, I couldn't care less about their status... Free ore is free ore :P
Avon	Posted - 2006.07.08 01:44:00 - [20] Edited by: Avon on 08/07/2006 01:44:33 Originally by: he slag It's not like CCP would know if you know they are a macro or not. They can't expect people to be macro detectors, as it is not our job. If they are playing the game, I'd just assume they are legally playing as CCP has allowed them to do so. The burden of keeping macros out of the game is not on the player. Doesn't work like that. CCP know that people who engage in regular ore theft know exactly what to look for. There is an understanding between the two sides. CCP have stated in the past that much of their best info on macro-miners comes from "ore relocation specialist's" petitions Ignorance may be accepted as an excuse once .. but in all honesty I wouldn't bet my account on it. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur

Chief Seattle	Posted - 2006.07.08 06:01:00 - [21] ermmm, me being a person with many newbs in his corp, i have organised macroraids to maybe get them to understand that they arent welcome in our newb base system, they have shoved off to nearer systems, however i had no idea that stealing macro ore without petiions could get you banned, i thought our CEO had petitoined them but im not sure now. i wonder if i could purchase a female sig and make some siglets.....
Betonela	Posted - 2006.07.08 06:12:00 - [22] Edited by: Betonela on 08/07/2006 06:12:20 bla bla bla steling ore whitout petition u can get banned oO ok now give me a link where dev say that and give me the EULA Quote and if is like that give me the "tools" to 100% detect a macrominer and i will flood CCP whit petition after make a macro petition Quote: Yes, I'm afraid we need a bit more. :-) There are plenty of people who mine while not at their computers, particularly if their ships hold a big cargo. However, if he is jettisoning his cargo, returning to station periodically, or doing anything that seems automated, that would be a different story.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.07.08 07:10:00 - [23] If you profit from an illegal action you're taking advantage through that action. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Novarei	Posted - 2006.07.08 07:15:00 - [24] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Novarei Originally by: Jacob Holland If you profit through the use of macros you're breaching the EULA, therefore selling ore mined using macros (in whatever form), whether you're part of the "operation" or not is - strictly speaking - a bannable offence. It gets greyer the further down the line you go however, if you buy minerals from an order which just happens to have been set using ore mined using macros, if you buy a ship made with those minerals... and so on. Early on, macro hunters would petition, steal ore, transfer it to their own can and destroy it, the problem didn't come up then. Stealing anyones ore, be it macrominer, dev or bob will not get you banned. Stealing ore from a macrominer without petitioning it first can get you warned and/or banned. You are not allowed to profit from macros, even if it isn't you running them. That has been the rule for a very long time now. Do you have any link? Surely if CCP had branded X as a macrominer they would be banned already. And FYI there is no way for a player to tell 100% whether someone is a macrominer, only CCP can verify that. Just an example; player A warps to belt, sees jet can full of ore, no one around, hmmmm... Player A picks up ore and does what he will with it. Jet can ends up being from macrominer. Bannable offence? --------------------
Drizit	Posted - 2006.07.08 07:16:00 - [25] I'd tend to agree there. We can't be sure it's a macro and if we start reporting all miners that look like they could be macro miners, CCP would be flooded with petitions aginst legit players. Unfortunately, mining is something that you can't tell automation from a bored player who's reading a book. I manually play two accounts (miner/hauler) on a dual monitor and still find time to read a book, I certainly don't scan local chat to see if someone is talking to me or not, it's very rare that anyone speaks at all in local in my home system. I have petitioned players with names like sfdlkjhsdk and chased them off later by force when they came back. I don't steal from them though unless they are stupid enough to leave a can full of decent ore behind. I check the belt fairly regularly with a frig and come back for abandoned cans in a hauler. If they have not been back to collect it by the time I come back, as far as I'm concerned, they don't want it. Had a nice can full of Pyrox that way, took me 3 trips to empty it. --
Fester Addams	Posted - 2006.07.08 07:42:00 - [26] I think its odd that you would be banned for stealing ore from macrominers, atleast if you steal from many over several systems. I meen if you spend say 15 hours hauling back and forth from the same macrominers can then I can understand that CCP will have a problem distinguishing you from them but if you just empty out some cans when you run across them that should be fine. Also ALWAYS report a suspected macrominer, sure processing them takes time, and there are suspected macrominers that are still operating in the center of empire months after their initial apearence however if you dont report them they will never leave however much you steal, they will simply move to where you are not affecting their operation. As for the reporting and then you are free to steal... well to me that seems odd, It would be like you firs tell CCP that here is a bug that people is abusing and that the act of informing CCP makes it legit for you to abuse the bug (yes I know, strictly speaking macroing is not a bug but its a likeness). While I have no doubt CCP will look favorably on an ore thief that reports before he steals I would still expect CCP to warn the thief as he is in reality profiting from macros. Its a tough call and none of us can really answer it properly, my sugestion would be to mail CCP and ask, its the only way you can get to what is true even if alot of people (me included) are truthfull to the best of our knowledge.
Dem Bones	Posted - 2006.07.08 07:45:00 - [27] How can CCP ban someone for ore thieving off a macrominer, when they don't ban macrominers anyway? I petitioned a group of macrominers (Footman1 through to Footman10 was one name, all created on the same day) and a handful of others. Did the usual of nicking the ore, shunting them 50 miles from the belt, convo them etc; and not a peep from them, so fairly safe to say they where macrominers. Guess what, six months later they're still out there mining away. Ore-thieving is legal practice Macromining now appears to be acceptable So how could ore thieving a macro miner be bannable?
Drizit	Posted - 2006.07.08 08:00:00 - [28] Originally by: Dem Bones I petitioned a group of macrominers (Footman1 through to Footman10 was one name, all created on the same day) and a handful of others. Did the usual of nicking the ore, shunting them 50 miles from the belt, convo them etc; and not a peep from them, so fairly safe to say they where macrominers. Guess what, six months later they're still out there mining away. They were in my home system a few weeks back. I petitioned them too and yet they are still mining. The most obvious part is when you bump them well away from the roids, they make no attempt to move back to them, even after 20 minutes of being more than 15km from the nearest roid. --
Zanon Xiu	Posted - 2006.07.08 08:07:00 - [29] this is a good discussion indeed, now one thing i do like to mine and help our newblets get into mining industry, quite frustrating to see a group come in and clean all the belts in the solarsystem your corp has an office in. I never snagged ore before, much less from regular players, however snagging these "macrominers or sweatshop farmers" ore or changing it to a different can has detered them alot if not made em move out of the area.
Ehker Gerete	Posted - 2006.07.08 08:08:00 - [30] Originally by: Drizit Originally by: Dem Bones I petitioned a group of macrominers (Footman1 through to Footman10 was one name, all created on the same day) and a handful of others. Did the usual of nicking the ore, shunting them 50 miles from the belt, convo them etc; and not a peep from them, so fairly safe to say they where macrominers. Guess what, six months later they're still out there mining away. They were in my home system a few weeks back. I petitioned them too and yet they are still mining. The most obvious part is when you bump them well away from the roids, they make no attempt to move back to them, even after 20 minutes of being more than 15km from the nearest roid. And if you bump a player miner to where he can't reach his can, they usually convo you to say they're real Please keep your signature below the 24000 bytes limit.- Pirlouit There. Fixed. - Ehker

Banni Vinda	Posted - 2006.07.08 09:01:00 - [31] Originally by: Betonela Edited by: Betonela on 08/07/2006 06:12:20 bla bla bla steling ore whitout petition u can get banned oO ok now give me a link where dev say that and give me the EULA Quote Read this thread. For anyone who can't be arsed to read the whole thing, basically the thread is just like this one. The final post is from ISD, so read that one at least. Linkage Prosecution rests :)
Novarei	Posted - 2006.07.08 09:33:00 - [32] Originally by: Banni Vinda Originally by: Betonela Edited by: Betonela on 08/07/2006 06:12:20 bla bla bla steling ore whitout petition u can get banned oO ok now give me a link where dev say that and give me the EULA Quote Read this thread. For anyone who can't be arsed to read the whole thing, basically the thread is just like this one. The final post is from ISD, so read that one at least. Linkage Prosecution rests :) 1: He's a forum mod only. 2: He said nothing conclusive. 3: He's giving general advice; 'better safe than sorry' kind of remark. --------------------
Grashopper	Posted - 2006.07.08 10:15:00 - [33] what type of petition actually ?
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.07.08 10:17:00 - [34] Originally by: Grashopper what type of petition actually ? Exploit New sig coming soonÖ By "soon" I do not necessarily mean "this year"
lisacurie	Posted - 2006.07.08 10:34:00 - [35] Originally by: St Dragon Originally by: Lord Frost Ummm... simple... just say you're an ore thief... that's a legit business in this game. If it happens to be a macrominer, then say "OOPS... I didn't know that"... if CCP knew that, then why in the heck are they macromining? ... since it is a bannable offense. That pretty much shows how things are technically you are acting the ore thief all ccp asks you to do is petition suspected macro miners so they can investigate. And all the blatent macro miners that ive reported in the last year are still active I dont petition now just steal. If I've reported them and ccp deem them not macrominers then what are they gonna do - say oh we made a mistake they really were macros?
ceaon	Posted - 2006.07.08 11:54:00 - [36] Originally by: Banni Vinda Originally by: Betonela Edited by: Betonela on 08/07/2006 06:12:20 bla bla bla steling ore whitout petition u can get banned oO ok now give me a link where dev say that and give me the EULA Quote Read this thread. For anyone who can't be arsed to read the whole thing, basically the thread is just like this one. The final post is from ISD, so read that one at least. Linkage Prosecution rests :) and how u know if is a macro or a fair miner ? on mmorpg.comEvE get 8,3 kill alt post
he slag	Posted - 2006.07.08 12:25:00 - [37] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 08/07/2006 01:44:33 Originally by: he slag It's not like CCP would know if you know they are a macro or not. They can't expect people to be macro detectors, as it is not our job. If they are playing the game, I'd just assume they are legally playing as CCP has allowed them to do so. The burden of keeping macros out of the game is not on the player. Doesn't work like that. CCP know that people who engage in regular ore theft know exactly what to look for. There is an understanding between the two sides. CCP have stated in the past that much of their best info on macro-miners comes from "ore relocation specialist's" petitions Ignorance may be accepted as an excuse once .. but in all honesty I wouldn't bet my account on it. I wouldn't bet my account on it no. I don't accept that every ore thief knows exactly what to look for, or if they should be required to distinguish between a macro or not. To me it is as simple as seeing a can and stealing from it. Who owns it is irrelevant. Some people whinge and convo you, some don't. Some people are just retarded and absent minded when it comes to mining. Some have just given up trying to beat the ore thief. Also, it strikes me as a bit odd that you may not steal from a macro unless you have petitioned it. If you report a macro and steal from them, you are knowingly profiting from an exploiter. This seems as bad as macroing yourself. I do think it should be a requirement for anyone clued up in knowing what is and isn't a macro to report it, as it does detract from the game. I don't, however, think the burden should be on the player to be macro police and have to go out of their way to accomodate the GM's inability to track macros effectively. Essentially this all boils down to people's intentions, which aren't always clear cut and thus should not be a basis for a judgement(such as banning).
Traellium	Posted - 2006.07.08 14:36:00 - [38] When in doubt, just fire on the cargo container. Real pirates don't take hostages, and the rice gets wet and blows a hole in the hull when it expands. They do like blowing things up though
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.07.08 14:49:00 - [39] Originally by: Jacob Holland It gets greyer the further down the line you go however, if you buy minerals from an order which just happens to have been set using ore mined using macros, if you buy a ship made with those minerals... and so on.
Tommy TenKreds	Posted - 2006.07.08 15:01:00 - [40] I declare this thread officially horse-****. Whether someone macro-mines or otherwise is not my responsibility to police.. EVER. Nor should I need to employ a frikkin lawyer to keep me apprised of forum amendments to the EULA. Do you know how many thousands of players never even visit the forums? Puh-lease.

Zanon Xiu	Posted - 2006.07.09 01:56:00 - [41] Edited by: Zanon Xiu on 09/07/2006 01:57:26 well we are now using new tactics. we steal the ore by nagging some and putting all their ore in our can, then we simply blow it up. good thing is by suck actions some of em were not in lirs today, making the corpies that do honest buisness in that solar system happy to know one day there will be roids to mine.
Milera	Posted - 2006.07.09 03:12:00 - [42] Edited by: Milera on 09/07/2006 03:13:59 Bah, I don't know enough about the EULA to analyze it myself (Does anyone read those damn things? I try, but usualy loose concentration by paragraph three), but as to the "how do you find a macrominer" point, I have some expertise in this subject. I used to be a macrominer, not in EVE, but in another game (Runescape, if you want to know). I will make this clear, I was not a sweatshopper, or an ebayer. I programmed my own scripts, and I used these programs for my own benefit. I stopped macroing because it was taking the fun out of the game. I thought that I would have fun getting the benefits without the hard work. Hell, was I wrong. But that's in the past, and not directly connected. EVE has fairly simplistic anti-macro systems (No offense CCP), and that makes macrominers a lot more comfortable. As such, they stop programming in sa*uards. Best way to tell a macrominer is if you bump them. And they don't message you. Most players will get *ed. Now because of EVE's overveiw system, moving their can is not very effective, the macro can always use a rightclick command on the can in the overveiw. But, again, usualy the player will yell at you, but make sure to wait at least one mining cycle, because some players won't notice that their can is suddenly sprouting engines and moving untill they see it. Another way is to open their cans. Almost every player will notice that someone tried to steal their loot. Just take one ore and watch. If they yell at you/shoot you, you know that they are most likely not macroers. No garuntee though, they could just be a really absent minded player. The surefire way is to look at the server logs, but only CCP has access to those. shrug* Those are my 2ISK from my previous "life" as a macroer on another game. By the way, before any idiots reading this post get the idea that I'll teach them how to program macros, the answer is no. Macroing takes the fun out of your game, everyone else's game, as well as risking your credit card getting banned from EVE. Through war we eliminate the weak, through war we develop technology, through war we hone our skills. Is it not a surprise that those who fight are strongest?
Viktor Fyretracker	Posted - 2006.07.09 03:22:00 - [43] easy way to tell a macro, if the name is letters and numbers its probally a macro. if the name is a word then its probally a player.
d00bld0ze	Posted - 2006.07.09 03:59:00 - [44] How can I know someone is macrominer? 1. I'm a GM and I've the tool to look into the logs 2. I'm a friend of the macrominer Therefore, banishing is normal I'm not persuaded that it's a valid tactic to report: -Hey CCP, I'm a macro miner and this Guy stole my ore. Ban him! English learning / Rank 20 / SP: 69 of 5000
Drizit	Posted - 2006.07.09 04:52:00 - [45] Originally by: d00bld0ze How can I know someone is macrominer? 1. I'm a GM and I've the tool to look into the logs 2. I'm a friend of the macrominer I'm a GM and I have a tool that allows me to remote view a location. They can secretly watch any system of the game they choose. Originally by: d00bld0ze I'm not persuaded that it's a valid tactic to report: -Hey CCP, I'm a macro miner and this Guy stole my ore. Ban him! Now that would be funny TBH, if you've reported them in the past and they are still mining now, obviously CCP has determined that they are a valid player so it's open season anyway. Those that say we are not here to police the game, that's true in some sense but you can't expect the GM's to watch everyone at once. Therefore alerting them to a possible macro miner allows them to refine their view to a certain area. It's ony like seeing a guy getting mugged and calling the police to go check it out, you are not policing the streets but you are making it better for those who want to walk the streets in safety including yourself. Same goes here, you are helping to rid the game of cheats and exploits to make the game better for legitimate players including yourself. --
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2006.07.09 05:47:00 - [46] Originally by: Avon Stealing ore from a macrominer without petitioning it first can get you warned and/or banned. You are not allowed to profit from macros, even if it isn't you running them. Care to tell me what means I have for detecting macros... that aren't available to CCP staff? If CCP can detect them and has done nothing about it, then they are making a very real profit off macros. I'd like to see how you care to rationalize them turning a blind eye to macro miners and punishing their legitimate customers for the same thing. If I were banned for doing something that's permitted by game mechanics, while they knowingly allowed someone to continue to violate the EULA, I'd simply take my money to another game. I know my $30 a month isn't much in the grand scheme of things, but right now it's $30 that SOE isn't able to spend, if you know what I mean.
Darktec	Posted - 2006.07.09 05:51:00 - [47] Originally by: Zanon Xiu had someone tell me you can get banned from stealing ore from macrominers, if they are reported you can get banned if the backlogs show you taking ore from their can and ccp cannot distinguish a player from a macrominer. is this true, can people get banned from making their wallets fat from macrominers if the macrominer gets banned? To the op. That whole statement is BS, even before i pititioned them, i stole from the macro miners that invaded the system i live in, and the gm's that looked at it told me to keep it up. And anyway, stealing is a valid profession in this game, macro miner or not. so you can NOT get banned from doing this.
Digitalis II	Posted - 2006.07.09 11:49:00 - [48] Edited by: Digitalis II on 09/07/2006 11:49:58 AS far as I can interpret this, the reason you "may be banned" for stealing from the macros isn't that you are committing a breach of the EULA yourself, but rather that it LOOKS like you are. Examples; 1.you find macros, start taking their ore, get rich.. Now another guy comes along and sees the macros, petitions it and the GMs look into it. Macros get the ban, but in the logs and even if watched you appear to be hauling for the macros so you get the bam too. 2. all of the above happens BUT you petition first..now the record shows you weren't part of the operation and you're in the clear. Thats just my view on the situation, not so much Wrong doing, more the possibility of mistaking ore theft for Macro hauling.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.07.09 17:54:00 - [49] If you 'know' they are macro mining or farming, and you just steal and never report, yes you can get in trouble.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.07.09 17:56:00 - [50] Originally by: Traellium When in doubt, just fire on the cargo container. Real pirates don't take hostages, and the rice gets wet and blows a hole in the hull when it expands. They do like blowing things up though Says who? Pirates ransomed the hell out of nobles and merchants back in the day.

Darktec	Posted - 2006.07.09 18:28:00 - [51] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia If you 'know' they are macro mining or farming, and you just steal and never report, yes you can get in trouble. well even before i reported the ones that came into my home system, i stole from them, its good money, i knew they were macro miners and i stole from them, when i finally did pitition the gm.... Names have been changed. Me : mm1, mm2, mm3 are back in the system, why havent they been banned yet? GM: We are still currently looking at their logs to decide our next course of action. ME: thats cool , cause imma keep stealing from them till you ban them,its good money GM: Hehe, good to know. =) He knew id been stealing from them since b4 i pititoned. Stealing is legal in this game, macro miner or not, so even if they had regular names and you stole from them, they turn out to be macro miners, you get banned? i dont think so.
Kim Chee	Posted - 2006.07.09 19:38:00 - [52] It's not THAT complicated. Macro miners are evil. They unbalance the game by selling minerals in larger than normally possible quantities (and then sell the macro-generated ISK for real life money). There are two ways to punish them for their foolishness. One is to blow them up. That's the most fun, but hard to do im Empire space for those of us who don't want to fork out cash for a fleet of suicide kestrals. The other is to constantly take their ore. The problem is, if you don't petition CCP that you're about to do it... they can't tell if you're trying to punish the macro miner, or if you're working with them by taking your "cut" to leave them alone. THAT is why you can get banned if you don't petition. So the best way to handle it is: 1. Petition. 2. Loot. 3. Loot again. ... 41. Loot some more. 42. Suicide kestral them into oblivion. <=----=> *Vila Restal: I'm entitled to my opinion. Kerr Avon*: It is your assumption that we are entitled to it as well that is irritating.
St Dragon	Posted - 2006.07.09 19:52:00 - [53] It seems a lot of peaole have no idea at all. Its not ok to steal ore from a macro without petitioning it as thats considered profiting off a exploit. Its ok to steal ore from a macro if you petition when you belive its a macro [according to the GM's doing this is not considered profiting of a exploit]. If you see a lone can in space abandoned its ok to take it no need to petition even if it WAS from a macr because its just an abandoned can. Its that easy if in doubt petition the guy. ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2006.07.09 21:47:00 - [54] You miss the important detail: You cannot tell with certainty that someone is using a macro. If you could, the GMs wouldn't have so many problems trying to confirm a course of action on the issue. Since you cannot say that someone is definitely a macro user, all you're doing is stealing from another player - which is permitted by the very way the game works. If YOU can't prove that your victim is a macro user, how in the hell can anyone else prove that you knowingly profitted off of an exploit? Stealing ore from anyone's can is not an exploit. Until CCP gives ME the tools to establish beyond a doubt that someone is a macro user, I'm forced to treat them as a legitimate player.
Buster Bloodvessel	Posted - 2006.07.09 22:07:00 - [55] I can't believe it just ate another ******* reply. I hate this bastard forum aaaargh! wystler stole my sig
Tension	Posted - 2006.07.09 22:35:00 - [56] Originally by: Banni Vinda Originally by: Betonela Edited by: Betonela on 08/07/2006 06:12:20 bla bla bla steling ore whitout petition u can get banned oO ok now give me a link where dev say that and give me the EULA Quote Read this thread. For anyone who can't be arsed to read the whole thing, basically the thread is just like this one. The final post is from ISD, so read that one at least. Linkage Prosecution rests :) Exhibit B That's from the help channel back in January this year. Seems ISD aren't consistent on the matter...
Rumbaar	Posted - 2006.07.10 01:53:00 - [57] What a crock even the idea of banning people from stealing ORE from a macro's jet-can. Like already said it's not our job to work out who or what is on the other side of the ships controls... But that said in a system my Corp CEO has petitioned macros named Frank1-8 and Streetboy1-8 ... after a week they're still there, plus all the other jgongjognongjo macros. Now that's at least 8 accounts, 8 X $14.95 isn't something CCP is going to give up in a hurry anytime soon, let alone ban actual players. I might take up ORE 'recovery' as a income stream :) Other than mining myself... Looking for custom banners? click above, Feedback section.
Hammer Smash	Posted - 2006.07.10 06:02:00 - [58] GM's have never said that you will be banned if you steal from these macroers/farmers. Don't believe Hammer? Send in a petition to a GM and ask. Hammer SMASH!


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