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Tami Auryn
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Posted - 2006.07.08 12:23:00 -
[1]
Hi,
a while back i purchased some shares thru [EGSE], the shares where purchased about 4 days before the estimated dividend distribution of those shares.
I made the purchase, i sent the isk right away, including 1% fee. I also sent a evemail stating i had made the purchase, and was hoping to get the shares soon.
Instead of getting the shares, i got a evemail saying that i would have to wait until the dividend was paid, because i didnt have any right receiving the dividend.
So my question is:
Is this standart procedure, and do you think if i am or not in right to get the dividend?
cheers and ty for your replys
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Mael Duakal
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Posted - 2006.07.08 12:48:00 -
[2]
No right to receive dividend? If that is true, thats the most stupid thing i have heard in a long time. Which broker was that?
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.07.08 12:59:00 -
[3]
That sounds really stupid... I've never heard of such a thing.
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II- |
EMFi Manager
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Posted - 2006.07.08 13:05:00 -
[4]
That is silly, definately not the way it should be done. However this isn't he EGSEX but the broker that made that decision.
by rule the dividends are received by the person that holds the shares at the moment of dividends (it isn't a savings account) that is why there is so-called: Cumdiv and Exdiv status on a share...
What broker told you so?
Alt of Naphtalia
Visit my investment site |
Tami Auryn
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Posted - 2006.07.08 13:22:00 -
[5]
Hi,
i do no wish to point fingers at anyone, my objective was to determine if this is fair or not, i think it isnt, and if it was normal to do this.
Maybe a EGSE policy regarding this would be nice.
Thank you all for your input on this.
Here are the emails exchanged, i remove the people. (last mail was the first one i sent, the order is bottom to top)
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The dividend gets distributed at the end of a month/first day of a new month.
Due to both beeing swamped RL + EVE - I've not gotten around to get it done yet.
Your purchase order is after this 'deadline' and as such youre not entitled to dividend on the shares (for the month of June)
This also means that I have to delay passing over the shares to you, until after the dividend is paid out.
Could take a day or two yet.....
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Hi,
i guess i ment last months divident, wich is going to be distributed this weekend.
When can my shares be transfered please ?
Gallas
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*This* months dividend distribution isnt in another 4 weeks :-)
I think I'll manage that
(And yes I've seen your purchase)
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Hi,
i have purchases a total of x shares, and i have sent the isk.
Please send the shares to me before this months dividend distribution.
Best Regards
Gallas
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EMFi Manager
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Posted - 2006.07.08 13:26:00 -
[6]
Nope the actual time the dividend is paid vs. the time the isk is received in the brokers wallet should determine who gets the dividend, NOT the schedule time of the dividend payment.
You should receive your shares immediately. and if there have been Div payments between the moment you paid for the shares and you received the shares you should receive dividends from teh broker as well.
Alt of Naphtalia
Visit my investment site |
Apocryphai
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Posted - 2006.07.08 13:27:00 -
[7]
Please name that broker so that the rest of us know to avoid them.
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EMFi Manager
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Posted - 2006.07.08 13:31:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Apocryphai
Please name that broker so that the rest of us know to avoid them.
nah, only after he/she keeps this up :)
Alt of Naphtalia
Visit my investment site |
Sir Juri
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Posted - 2006.07.08 13:33:00 -
[9]
Originally by: EMFi Manager
Originally by: Apocryphai
Please name that broker so that the rest of us know to avoid them.
nah, only after he/she keeps this up :)
No avoid forever. He is scimming the dividence, And shouldnt be a broker for anyone.
damn need to make a new sig... |
Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2006.07.08 17:09:00 -
[10]
Each broker has a different rule for dividends, most tend to go on the side of owner gets it (even of owner is in limbo due to trade occuring while they are asleep/away). Can't speak for anyone else, but when divs come in, i check to see if there are any trades that occcured before the div was paid.
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EMFi Manager
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Posted - 2006.07.08 17:42:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Omber Zombie
Each broker has a different rule for dividends, most tend to go on the side of owner gets it (even of owner is in limbo due to trade occuring while they are asleep/away). Can't speak for anyone else, but when divs come in, i check to see if there are any trades that occcured before the div was paid.
Diff rules are fine, as long as they are published when deviating from the standard rules :)
Alt of Naphtalia
Visit my investment site |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.07.08 17:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Omber Zombie
Each broker has a different rule for dividends, most tend to go on the side of owner gets it (even of owner is in limbo due to trade occuring while they are asleep/away). Can't speak for anyone else, but when divs come in, i check to see if there are any trades that occcured before the div was paid.
But this is different: the broker is delaying the trade purposefully for 4 days.
This makes me supicious that the broker is pretending to have sold the shares 4 days earlier, but actually having done it after the dividend, so that he can pocket the dividend.
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II- |
Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.07.08 18:43:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 08/07/2006 18:47:05
Name of the broker please, so that he can either make a public apology (after sending you all the dividends) or be declared excommunicatus and hunted down.
Dividend rules are simple: if you want to receive dividends, dont sell your shares the day before they are due. As for the broker, he should be compensated by the fee he takes.
The broker does not own the shares at any point in time of a valid transaction, so he has no claim to the dividends whatsoever. He must send you the shares the second he receives the ISK, the only acceptable excuse not to do this is RL(tm) ;)
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Gaius Sejanus
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Posted - 2006.07.08 19:07:00 -
[14]
Name the broker. That's the most assinine rule I've ever heard of.
Hell, if that was a broker in the real world, he'd probably go to jail for doing this.
"Keeps it up"? How do we know if the name isn't out. As if keeping it up would be any kind of justification. If I were in a position of responsibility in the EGSE, the first verified instance of such blatant scamming would represent that broker's last moment as one of my representatives.
You don't screw around with other people's money. Period.
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Fitzmaurice
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Posted - 2006.07.08 19:44:00 -
[15]
I am actually shocked by this. I do not think that the broker has "skimmed the dividends," so much as given them to the original owner of the shares. That seems to be the procedure for shares set up in sell orders that are unsold at the time of a dividend's pay-out.
But as soon as the order goes through (time-stamped based on your isk transfer to the broker), the shares are "legally" yours whether the broker is online or not. At least, it should be that way. There is no waiting period. If you bought the shares just before the dividend, it is your dividend. Period.
I have had brokers work extra hard just before dividends to make sure the shares went to me when I bought them. So I myself have had good experiences with the EGSE staff. What Tami has gone through, if true (and there is no reason to doubt it), is inexcusable.
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Kitty O'Shay
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Posted - 2006.07.08 20:05:00 -
[16]
Just another reason I hope share are a valid item for a Kali contract.
The brokers we have for the most part do a great job, but aren't supported by game mechanics. So those that trust a broker are at the mercy of his play schedule/whims.
--
Convo Me! |
SonOfAGhost
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Posted - 2006.07.10 16:30:00 -
[17]
I wouldn't be too quick to judge the broker in this case. Hard to say without dates/times on them but those mails read as if the broker didn't receive your order until after dividend. You may have sent it before but there are references to RL issues.
If they conducted the share exchange based on when they received the order not when it was sent then I can see why they would send the dividend to the previous owner. I disagree with that (in that I think he should have processed the trade as if it occurred at the time you mailed in your order not when he read it) However I can see the other side of the coin and if that is the case such a non-standard policy should be declared publicly.
Of course that's assuming they didn't actually read your order prior to the dividend but, without the time stamps, it doesn't look like a scam so much as being a bit sloppy.
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Tami Auryn
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Posted - 2006.07.10 18:00:00 -
[18]
To reply to SonOfAGhost,
the purchase was made on 2006.07.05 23:38 , in the [EGSE] i sent the isk seconds later, and a evemail a few seconds more later. That time is the timestamp of my evemail.
I previously own shares of that business, dividends have not been paid yet, and my purchased shares have not been sent yet.
I have later purchased a few more shares, a few days ago, totaling about 1.3b isk, no shares and no dividend so far.
I'm hoping my latest evemails convices the broker to send me my shares before the dividends are paid.
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Erfnam
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Posted - 2006.07.10 19:32:00 -
[19]
Please report this person's name to other ESGEx brokers or to Aaro'ne Erviale. Brokers have no right to hold shares that you have purchased through the site and sent isk.
My personal policy is the standard, the owner of the shares at the time of the dividend receives their fair share of the dividend. Ownership changes as soon as my wallet shows that an order has been paid.
Recruiting
Casino - Monitor Thread |
Madcat Adams
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Posted - 2006.07.11 04:18:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Madcat Adams on 11/07/2006 04:19:39
This sounds quite irregualr compared to my past experiences with the EGSE. I've dealt with Excelsior, and Omber Zombie, and have had no such problems, with dividends paid to me while the brokers were in possesion of my stocks. Hopefully this is just a case of rl issues having kept your broker away from the terminal for an extended time, and will soon be cleared up.
edited for spell checking
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Cell Satimo
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Posted - 2006.07.11 09:51:00 -
[21]
Firstly Let Aaro'ne Erviale know.
Secondly, make the broker either a) give you the dividend amount or b) reverse the transaction.
The price you bid on the shares was their value at that moment you bid and transferred the isk. EGSE are meant to process the shares within 24hrs. If the broker is 'too busy' in RL, they should delist all their shares and return them to clients.
The broker withholding the shares to get the dividend is ripping you off. Whether or not he's just lining his pockets, it's wrong. Get a 100% refund on the transaction and make sure Aaro'ne Erviale kicks them.
If EGSE doesn't take action against the broker, then you need to name and shame the broker, to protect the reputation of the brokers who DID NOT use this tactic. As a person selling shares on EGSE, I'd damn well like to know who's pocketing dividends and ruining sales of my shares.
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Tami Auryn
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Posted - 2006.07.13 23:13:00 -
[22]
Hi everyone,
the conclusion of my story isnt a happy one, i finaly received my shares but only AFTER dividends where paid.
I bought and paid my shares on the 5th, but only today on the 13th when dividends where paid, did i receive my shares AFTER dividends where paid.
So the broker really did what he said, even tought i pointed him to this thread.
It was a strange dividend distribution, in 3 parts.
Dividends paid 1st part
Dividends paid 2nd part
Shares received
Dividends paid 3rd part
So i have lost dividends from the 2 first dividends payment.
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Salazar N'terre
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Posted - 2006.07.13 23:18:00 -
[23]
What is the name of the broker, so that I can steer clear?
"ICT BPC Sales!""I Live in my OWN LITTLE WORLD....but its okay, they know me HERE!"
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Tami Auryn
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Posted - 2006.07.13 23:29:00 -
[24]
My objective with this thread was to know if this was normal behavior and if not, what people tought about it, and to try to force the broker into sending me the shares before dividend distribution.
Naming the broker now wont achive anything, but from what i said here it's not hard to guess what shares i bought and from who.
I'll have to wait to next month to see how much dividend i can get from all my shares of that bussiness.
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.07.13 23:51:00 -
[25]
So let me summarize - you have been scammed by a damn criminal, but are not telling whom.
So either you are lying, or EGSE is harboring thieves, but we do not know who (besides that incident about Heretic Omega, but he may have RL issues).
This is not going to help anyone, so either name the broker by name (no hidden references i have to eve-search, its down anyway), or admit that you are making things up.
If you refuse, i suggest that EGSE staff takes a look into this matter, preferably sooner then possible, make sure that the broker either hands over the dividends he has stolen, or gets kicked out (and shot if anyone has spare time).
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Tami Auryn
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Posted - 2006.07.13 23:58:00 -
[26]
As you said, the EGSE can check who i bought shares from and take any action they feel approprivate.
They have access to the records, they can know who it was, they dont need me to post here to tell them who it was.
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Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2006.07.14 05:53:00 -
[27]
Tami, it's not up to the EGSE to post client information to the public. I'm sure a lot of people would be very upset if people could ask who bought what and the EGSE told them.
There is no solid EGSE policy on how dividends should be handled, each broker has their own set of rules afaik.
If you want to name the broker, do so, if not, don't.
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Tami Auryn
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Posted - 2006.07.14 11:14:00 -
[28]
I didnt say for them to name the broker to the public, i said if EGSE wants to know to take any action they can, because it's on their records, and dont need me to tell them.
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Eilene Fernite
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Posted - 2006.07.14 12:03:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Eilene Fernite on 14/07/2006 12:03:25
Originally by: Tami Auryn
I didnt say for them to name the broker to the public, i said if EGSE wants to know to take any action they can, because it's on their records, and dont need me to tell them.
No, but we need you to tell us. If I'm going to use the EGSEX for trading shares, I'd like to know who the shady broker is, so I can pick one that actually does his 'job' like he's supposed to.
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Aeaea
XanoTech
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Posted - 2006.07.14 12:16:00 -
[30]
Let us know how did this, because you were literally scammed out of your isk by the broker. If you're not gonna name him, then your thread is just a bunch of made-up bull.
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