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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Cirillith
Bean-shidh
The Nameless Alliance
12
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Posted - 2014.08.04 17:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Well - As from my perspective I would like to know what was general reason of this kind of mechanic change from DEVs actually.
Why? Because this thread is kinda full of arguments about this change is being good/or bad (I'm even one of those ppl thinking this would be kinda bad change) and full of theories how this affect future life inside w-space.
Since we do not know other so called "iterations" planned for W-Space its hard to see the bigger picture. And I started really to afraid them.
The most annoying thing about this - mentioned somewhere above in this thread - is that it seems CCP doesn't care about us, living in W-Space. Usually we get some knowing about changes affecting environment we are living with, when we dig them out on SISI or TQ even, and some DEVtalks, DEVblogs are appearing on eve website when all is settle, and CCP wants some feedback but is doing nothing after receiving it.
THE ORDER OF MAKING CHANGES SHOULD BE:
1. some ideas
2. checking them internally
3. going with DEVblog
4. getting feedback
5. adjusting changes
6. even more feedback
7. release
BTW - you should know that during our meeting event here in Warsaw just few days ago (last Wednesday) I asked CCP Gargant who was here (really big fellow :)), if they are planning something for W-SPace. I received answer NO.
Funny isn't it?
Of course I know that WH could be boring some times. Looking for a fight is usually pain in the ass and comes to a conclusion of getting someone on sites or baiting. This takes time, and usually ppl will notice you before you can catch them - close hole or escaping. Even when you send char with too big killboard history your prey wont bait at you. But there are also scenarios when we fought like 4 times on single WH with different setups.
This change is leading to even bigger Mexican stand off situation style - if you would like to seek out some analogy - two WH c6 connected with each other one pulsar second one wolf rayet, both colonized with active pvp entities. The most common way of engagement is shield fleet wait for armor fleet on pulsar side and armor one waiting for shield one on rayet side. Jump mechanic change will lead to same situation since you cant predict where your support capitals will be and they could be like 60 km from each other, also this kind of mechanics favors defending side - in preparing battle - even more that is today.
Other arguments - again right in my opinion - are involved with small entities. If they will saw some active PVP corp scout in their chain they will POS up and log off or if that kind of situation will be experienced very often they will move out of W-space making it even more empty.
Anyway - I know that making W-Space more interesting place would be nice, but still you have so much work to do with thing that are not working well (POSes, rights in Corporations, etc) or you could deliver something new and demanded like ALLIANCE or FLEET BOOKMARKS. Why changing something that works pretty well? I will now repeat question that was pointed at you many times:
Were you actually playing in W-Space? Have you seen how life there look like? Not for a long time - at least for a week or so. And I know that you are allowed to play on some character with other in their corps as long as they do not know you are a DEV. |
Cirillith
Bean-shidh
The Nameless Alliance
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 22:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:
A wormhole generator...
Well - please forgive me a bit of criticism - so wormhole under POS? just outside grid of it? - I do not think it would be the best idea.
Rek Seven wrote:
or a ship that can gradually reduce the mass of a wormhole without jumping would counteract this change in a small way...
This would only help to rageroll.... No help with pvp part - you know capitals and support shattered across grid around hole |
Cirillith
Bean-shidh
The Nameless Alliance
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 08:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Rek Seven wrote:I still want new content though! A wormhole generator or a ship that can gradually reduce the mass of a wormhole without jumping would counteract this change in a small way... Since i didn't get shouted at, i'm going to assume you guys love the idea... Your welcome 
Since I'm the only one commenting those ^^ Please forgive me my inactivity during the night :)
Anyway - Wormhole generator in a way of anchored module somewhere seems not a bad idea - maybe it should work in way that it would give you second or third random static... I think it could be made in a way of POS/POCO way - with RF timer and such. Additionally I would add condition: cannot anchor on grid of POS - like you said near sun would be good spot (we can use lore explanation here - huge amount of energy needed - from sun ^^)
On ship - let me be a little skeptical here - it would become perfect farming security ship - with that conditions you proposed... Place that on static and you are perfectly safe from anything jumping through there. I think your second idea is not quite we want to.
On the other hand it could be module for battleship which will give it mass of a half of carrier or dreadnought... but still that only helps to close hole.
It wont resolve any other issue - right now if you want brawl under the hole you throw big fleet on conventional logistics or if you got fewer number of ppl you throw carrier and bunch of T3s. After implementing that "strange" jump mechanic second option will be hard to do - since carrier will be dropped somewhere but for sure far from its support - it wont hit triage, since it cannot be dumped or so, but will have impact on other aspects of that kind of brawl, including applying dps or controlling range of fight (on defender side few webbing and long range scramblers and we have attackers totally controlled without chance of applying DPS), it will have great impact on tactics and doctrines used in fights in WH - will reward kiting setups, etc.
Understand me well - since I think new mechanic is BAD idea, I think ppl will adapt if it will be released, but that adaptation could be something that will ruin our quite well working environment.
Dear CCP - we can adapt and we will if you hit us with those changes. Main issue here is that if you really care about our opinion you should maybe ask CSM WH Representative or us, as ppl using WH-space on daily basis what we think about that kind of change. I'm certain we can came to some conclusions or even throw few nice ideas at you (not everyone can come to Fanfest you know).
Because right now your image looks like this: you are just a bunch of ppl who does not playing game you designed and few ppl came to your ranks from null-sec power-block environment, and you all simply do not care for W-Space environment since we are few in numbers on a map of New Eden - after all ppl lives mainly in k-space... Why I'm writing this? Because I could bet with you that if you would be considering some cyno, bridge, station, gate mechanic change it would be consulted with CSM and with community before changes hit SISI.
And form my point of view - if you will mess up W-Space (It is my home for like 4 years now - and I was in Hi-sec and null earlier - there is no other place for me) - it will be clear sign for me that I should reconsider my interest in your game, and maybe go play some other during my wait for Star Citizen (this is not some blackmail or something just an neutral info BTW) and I think many ppl will do same thing. |
Cirillith
Bean-shidh
The Nameless Alliance
15
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Posted - 2014.08.05 11:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ok there seems to be a logic failiure occuring here with some of the thinking.
Some seem to want wormholes to be more dangerous, because........?
Some seem to believe they are fields of gold for "farmers" and they should be punished somehow and forced to be either victims or fight.
And some believe if this was somehow done that there would be unlimited PVP and all would be well with wormhole space...........
Complete insanity.
If you drive farmers out, and making things unpleasant will do this, then there is No one to shoot.
Some great fights happen with people others might label as farmers, true farmers left long ago or get evicted. If one Makes things impossible for those who are willing to fight as well as PvE and you have a desert.
Just because CCP did not envision people living in wormholes is not an excuse to ruin them.
......
I was going to write something similar here.
C'mon EvE is a sand box. CCP invented W-Space and it should be some exploration environment for group activities. Fine, but your customers used "sandbox" approach and beginning to live there. It wasn't intended by designers, but in pure spirit of SANDBOX became reality
And I fully agree here if anyone who already lives there will be forced to move out to k-space or out of the game - we all gonna loose something, and it will have some impact on whole EvE. How big that impact will be - I don't know. could be small, marginal even but on the other hand it could be big.
About changes - like I wrote few posts before - WE as the WH COMMUNITY will adapt. Whatever changes CCP will throw at us will trigger some new tactics or doctrines. those also will change and improve. Some ppl will go away, some will come to place deserted by leaving ones, but... Main issue here is HOW YOU ARE PLANNING AND IMPLEMENTING CHANGES CCP NOT CHANGES THEMSELVES. |
Cirillith
Bean-shidh
The Nameless Alliance
16
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Posted - 2014.08.05 13:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:
Explain to me how this change (the 40km thing) will make anything better. Please use only facts and stear clear of speculation and extrapolated BS.
Facts: CCP Fozzie wrote:
The version of the code that is on SISI is absolutely not the final version, and is not running final numbers (the ranges we are working with internally are quite a bit closer than what is on this build of SISI).
Anything else and i would just be speculating or giving you my personal opinion.
Yea... Through last like 30 pages we kinda enraged, shared our speculations or some just said NO to that change.
I think we should - I do not believe I'm saying this - just wait for response from DEVs... I know that information we have now are kinda small and many of us are very concerned about them, but hey - we should stop panicking and wait for some details, analyze them and then if big picture will be dumb/unwelcome/ruining WH, only then we should enrage.
Meanwhile maybe we should concentrate on giving some ideas how to improve WH? For sure we should stop writing again and again how these changes will be bad. I think almost all sized entities from WH and even some from HS or null wrote here their opinion. Let's hope now CCP Fozzie or someone else will respond quickly. |
Cirillith
Bean-shidh
The Nameless Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 13:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:[
It is important that when something like this appears on Sisi and is discovered to give our response clearly and immidiately.
The reality is that it is hard to reverse something once it is on Sisi and well nigh impossible once it has reached the stage of a Dev blog as a great deal of developer time has been spent by then, and no one will want to waste that.
If CCP have listened to bad advice, then NOW is the time to unscramble that before it is too late, and hopefully CCP will be more careful who they listen to next time..........
YES YOU ARE RIGHT, but i think 30 pages long threadnought including our CSM Representative looking at it and posting in it IS sufficient signal for CCP and any more pages wont do a thing, because we can produce like 1000 pages more, all based on small pack of data, that was told by DEV it will be changing, and if CCP wont discover it now i wont discover it even when it will be 20000 pages.
Of course you can disagree with me :) |
Cirillith
Bean-shidh
The Nameless Alliance
18
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 20:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shilalasar wrote:
Also I just reread the first line of Fozzie-¦s post about sigdelay:
Team Five O has been working on a few concepts for improvements to wormhole mechanics and we wanted to run one idea by you all to start some discussion in the community. 2014.03.23
So this "idea" about spawndistance probably has been on the table for 5+ months, esp if it really came from Chitsa/WH roundtable. I won-¦t even bother to look for the last devresponse there but I bet it is 4+ months old. I-¦ll just stop here otherwise ISD might happen.
Why stop?
I wont - if you are right then we are already screwd, because none will probably even look at our opinion and it will be like with spread after opening data or relic can - it was implemented and removed year later...
I hope you are wrong.
On the other hand CCP Gargant - PR guy - didn't know about this (hes on vacations) or didn't want to share it with us during our meeting and drinking here in Warsaw...
I'm kinda more and more concern about silence form CCP out this all... |
Cirillith
Bean-shidh
The Nameless Alliance
18
|
Posted - 2014.08.06 07:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Well - it's not nice to came to work and during EvE forum check find out about another "improve" of W-Space.
I know I wrote post above we should be calm and that we should wait, but I think this approach is obsolete now.
C'mon - polarization mechanic is something making W-Space different from k-space, and of course a BIG tactical element of a fight... So maybe CCP will also give us aggression timer on WH - since they are purely trying change WH space into null-sec.
I guess they will take our opinion under consideration only when we will repeat something called as "Incarna incident"
This is truly sad that CCP was able to learn from its mistakes then and now is repeating them again...
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