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Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.07.10 22:35:00 - [31] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Presuming they don't just start over with new accounts, what do you think is going to happen to the market if all the supposed macro users are banned? Mining will become a more appealing profession to regular players because they won't be making ****-poor isk off of the majority of minerals?
Locke DieDrake	Posted - 2006.07.10 22:49:00 - [32] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Locke DieDrake Presuming they don't just start over with new accounts, what do you think is going to happen to the market if all the supposed macro users are banned? Mining will become a more appealing profession to regular players because they won't be making ****-poor isk off of the majority of minerals? Did you even read the rest of post? I pointed out that the number of isk in not relevant, because if TRIT doubles in cost/value, so does everything else in the game. Thereby eliminating any gain. In other words, it's relative. The value of trit has a very direct and strong affect on the cost of the mods and ships made with it. Therefore if trit is 2x cost, so are mining lasers and ships. Meaning that it's still not profitable in terms of time vs. isk. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2006.07.10 23:24:00 - [33] Dear Kieron We do want information about this issue, the fact that you guys banned 1000 accounts came in light that you got offended by one guy in a different thread and blurted it out, if you guys had written about banning so many accounts on regular basis it would help calm people down. Many previous threads have been made where people where asking HOW many where banned if any, do our petitions work and so on, no DEV's answered those threads, what happend was that it got a stickie and every other thread where locked.. so convinient to force people to write into a thread nobody knew if you did read or not. Nobody ask who is banned, only need to know how many because that will mean our petitions do work.. (apart from those many macroers I still see log on and that a year after I made the petitions). Also it could be a idea that under petition you have your own cathegory called Macropetition or something like that so it will be easy to see how many petitions a day you got and need to give resources to. Also would help to not let people file those petitions under wrong cathegory and get their petitions deleted. To the guy who asked "what does macroer do to my gameplay" ??? well they ruined one of my professions... I used to be a miner and I liked it alot, infact I used to mine sell minerals or produce that is where I got quite alot of my skills in. I had to change from a miner to a missionrunner... (wich is almost as unpopular among the pvp'ers as macroers are to miners). PvP fighting is not my thing in this game, production/mining part of this game is however what I enjoy most.... and market have been hit BAD. I remember when I could sell isogen for 69 isk a unit there where like 5000 people playing this game a night back then.. we tought hey it was a good price. It got better.. top where I sold isogen for 140 isk a unit (overprices some might say) I did not complain.. I made isk and mining where fun. Now I have seen isogen down to 89 isk a unit !!!! ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Freya Runestone	Posted - 2006.07.11 00:03:00 - [34] with respect for the GM's and all that. what they are doing simply doesn't work. they are only delaying it. they need to put in a major effort to stop it. if the macrominsers can stay untouched for a few months they can easily make enough money by selling ISK that the training time for a new account wont matter i bet that 80% of the people getting banned who are actually macromining will just open a new account and do it again. i think its a very profitable occupation, more profitable than it should be __________________________________ need a new sig :(
ToxicFire	Posted - 2006.07.11 00:04:00 - [35] Originally by: Arcticblue2 I remember when I could sell isogen for 69 isk a unit there where like 5000 people playing this game a night back then.. we tought hey it was a good price. It got better.. top where I sold isogen for 140 isk a unit (overprices some might say) I did not complain.. I made isk and mining where fun. Now I have seen isogen down to 89 isk a unit !!!! Its called an economy prices will change as supply and demand changes, what would you do if prices continued to drop if all the macroers were banned from the game. Go after people that have an abundance of time to mine and therefore flood the market with cheap mins? Tbh the problem isn't the macrominers is the static roid system, having ore garunteed to be in a certain place (when it respawns) oremap currently pulls about 10k unique visitors a month consistently since it was setup, so location of ore is obviously important to the community, and its quite a logical and static system. Which means people can always get there hands on a certain type of ore if they want to. To get prices back up, this needs to be removed, it needs to be possible for a system to be completely mined of a ore and it not respawn for perhaps even months, and it needs to be possible that say a system with crokite may not spawn crokite again for an even longer period but spawns an alternative ore. Also turn off inifinte ice while thats going on.
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2006.07.11 00:18:00 - [36] Originally by: ToxicFire Originally by: Arcticblue2 I remember when I could sell isogen for 69 isk a unit there where like 5000 people playing this game a night back then.. we tought hey it was a good price. It got better.. top where I sold isogen for 140 isk a unit (overprices some might say) I did not complain.. I made isk and mining where fun. Now I have seen isogen down to 89 isk a unit !!!! Its called an economy prices will change as supply and demand changes, what would you do if prices continued to drop if all the macroers were banned from the game. Go after people that have an abundance of time to mine and therefore flood the market with cheap mins? Tbh the problem isn't the macrominers is the static roid system, having ore garunteed to be in a certain place (when it respawns) oremap currently pulls about 10k unique visitors a month consistently since it was setup, so location of ore is obviously important to the community, and its quite a logical and static system. Which means people can always get there hands on a certain type of ore if they want to. To get prices back up, this needs to be removed, it needs to be possible for a system to be completely mined of a ore and it not respawn for perhaps even months, and it needs to be possible that say a system with crokite may not spawn crokite again for an even longer period but spawns an alternative ore. Also turn off inifinte ice while thats going on. I would cheer if they finally got rid of all macroers, if market did not improve would not matter. Besides supply is higher than demand ... why is that ? quite possible because there is a abundance of macrominers roaming around in high-sec. Saw the other day one guy selling what 1 billion tritanium at market... I bet nobody have mined THAT much without using some form of macromining. I use 2 accounts, usually there where one hauler and one miner, sometimes 2 mining for a short period of time. It still took me around a week to get enough minerals to build a battleship. and I play for like 5 hours a day even more some days. The majority of macrominers I have encountered have been 4-6 players where 4 are usually miners, 2 haulers... all in noobcorps (different ones even.. usually the miners are in the same noobcorp, and haulers in the same noobcorp). The miners are around 3-4 months old, some even older ofcourse, and flying medium miningbarges some flying apocs. They used to be in the belt together... now you are more likly to see them even in different systems but atleast only one to two in each belt they are operating in. Some still drop containers marked "1111111111" and so on. But I am also very sure now that they don't leave their machines unattended they might have like 3-5 machines under them where they check it regular to see if any Dev's are convo them or not... ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Gina Baldur	Posted - 2006.07.11 00:25:00 - [37] There is a channel called "MACROINTEL". Macrohunters hang there. If you kill a macro today, the sun will shine tomorrow! I am the most pretty exclamation mark you will ever see!
Countess Kari	Posted - 2006.07.11 00:51:00 - [38] Originally by: Freya Runestone with respect for the GM's and all that. what they are doing simply doesn't work. they are only delaying it. they need to put in a major effort to stop it. if the macrominsers can stay untouched for a few months they can easily make enough money by selling ISK that the training time for a new account wont matter i bet that 80% of the people getting banned who are actually macromining will just open a new account and do it again. i think its a very profitable occupation, more profitable than it should be CCP could do alot of things, but the macro users will adjust and find another way to do their thing. I totaly believe these guys that are running 23/7 are selling isk somewhere. CCP could try the following. Create a Eve alt, Create an Ebay account, shop Ebay, buy a few Eve items from different sellers, when the item gets transfered to thier alt, track where the items came from, and ban all accounts PERMANENTLY that were supplying the items or isk. I mean if a player is showing millions of Isk going out and nothing in return, that should be a flag to CCP, or that 1000's of items changing hands from a few alts with nothing getting traded back, again that would be a flag. I say CCP go right to the source, at Ebay where these guys make their money and stick it to them, how many will sell there if they know CCP is shopping there and instantly banning the accounts associated, they'd have to start selling them items back in game.
Zanon Xiu	Posted - 2006.07.11 01:14:00 - [39] ccp cares, they let me pay another account and fly an alt that just sacrifices himself to make you concerned players happy.
Mysticaa	Posted - 2006.07.11 01:58:00 - [40] Originally by: kieron So, does CCP care? Absolutely. Are you wasting your time with a petition? Certainly not. If the player is breaking the rules, will (s)he be taken care of? Yes. It might take some time. LOL sorry this is one I can not pass up. It might take some time? What should we consider an acceptable amount of time? A week? A month? 2 months? A year? more? I opened a petition on Dec 8, 2005 about some obvious macrominers and to this date they are still mining away. And before you ask yes I know for a fact they were macromining. When their hauler was popped by an ore thief I had the pleasure of watching thier hauler go from the station to the ore fields for 6 or more hours in his pod. Does CCP care? Maybe but when it comes to fighting against macrominers they are highly ineffectual. ----------------------------------------------- Why do I post here? Sig snatched by Xorus
Gah'khaz	Posted - 2006.07.11 02:27:00 - [41] why beat around the bush any more eh? just post the macroers real names and adresses then we all get to drag them out into the street in the middle of the night and burn/lacarate them severely before we put a 12 gauge in their mouths and pull the triggers! no seriously, do something about the macrominers, and show us that your doing it while your at it.
Tarquin Tarquinius	Posted - 2006.07.11 02:34:00 - [42] Can't CCP take legal action against websites selling ISK. Sites like GameYeah.com ------------------------ The Almighty says this must be a fashionable fight. It's drawn the finest people. - an Amarr Mercenary
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.07.11 02:44:00 - [43] Originally by: Tarquin Tarquinius Can't CCP take legal action against websites selling ISK. Sites like GameYeah.com And what would be their legal grounds? For some dumbass reason TOS and EULA are not considered binding contracts.
Locke DieDrake	Posted - 2006.07.11 03:24:00 - [44] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Tarquin Tarquinius Can't CCP take legal action against websites selling ISK. Sites like GameYeah.com And what would be their legal grounds? For some dumbass reason TOS and EULA are not considered binding contracts. Trust me on this, you don't want them to be considered binding contracts. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2006.07.11 03:59:00 - [45] If they are mining in an apoc without a jetcan then its most probably not a isk farming thing, probably a normal player making isk while they sleep or study or whatever. They maybe are there some of the time, doing homework, chores, having dinner, watching telly etc and are able to check up and answer a GM if a GM does come calling. They may even have a program that alerts them to any significant change on screen such as a pop up convo box. Infinity Ziona
Drizit	Posted - 2006.07.11 07:03:00 - [46] Originally by: SonOfAGhost A lot of players really don't want to mine, even amongst the ones that do, they feel they have to in order to support their corp. The people that aren't already mining aren't going to start just because there's a shortage. I beg to differ there. I have been a miner since the day I started playing this game. Many I have spoken to don't want to mine because most of the high end ores are gone within hours of the respawn. Since they only respawn twice a week now, it often means low end ore or nothing. Even if you find high end ore, it's been such a short time since it was mined out last that the roids are mere pebbles with virtually no real yield. Many that would mine now look for other ways to make isk instead. Remove the macros and most of that problem will be gone. high end ore will be more abundant and the legitimate players will look more to mining as a profession. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong in mining Veldspar and most wouldn't have a problem with doing so as long as there is enough higher end ores to compensate for the low income of Trianium alone. To give an idea of how little high end ore there is, I can strip 4 belts of every ounce of Pyrox and still not even have half of what I need to build a Raven. I ran the last lot of Macro miners out of my home system the day after petitioning them by force. They have not been back since. However, the belts have still not recovered from the overmining and there's still not enough high end ore to keep me going and I play solo. There used to be another corp who shared the reaources and, between us, we used to manage the belts so that there was always enough. Since the macro miners came in, the belts have hardly enough ore to sustain just me and the other corp finally disbanded and moved on due to lack of resources. So it's not just the ore in the belts that's affected by macro miners. Infinity Ziona: If they are mining in an Apoc, they are definitely not AFK and I very much doubt they would be doing it without jetcans. It takes a lot of micromanagement to mine with 6 or more M2 lasers and only a 650 m3 hold. Trust me, I know and learned my lesson the hard way. Even with the hold expanded to the max, you are only looking at 3 minutes tops before it's full. Try it sometime and consider that I was running two accounts on a dual monitor and hauling with the other account as well. I lost so much ore because of overfills while I was dealing with the hauler account that it was embarrasing. I actually mined twice what I eventually hauled back to base but lost half trying to do 20 things at once. I now use a Retriever and currently training for a Covetor because the 3 minute cycle time allows me to deal with the hauler and also rats when they turn up. --
Amthrianius	Posted - 2006.07.11 07:08:00 - [47] Originally by: Locke DieDrake if TRIT doubles in cost/value, so does everything else in the game. Thereby eliminating any gain. Everything in the game isn't made of pure trit. So everything else wont double in price Lets take an apoc for example Double the price of trit it goes from 95mil to 109mil. Even if you double the price of mexallon and pyerite aswell it only goes up to about 120mil. Hardly exactly doubling the price now is it? ---------------
Anglo	Posted - 2006.07.11 07:39:00 - [48] this isue has been debated many times, i feel old players can cope for the macro f..... but new players cant... may i sugest that barges ONLY can be used in 04 and less.. and then make it so a roid in inner empire is like HUGH so th enew players can mine for isk, and the more exsperienced u are and so lucky u get in a barge u actually need to get some sort of defense up.. would force many out into less secure area AND give new players a chance of making isk mining.. hell if any macro miner wanna mine in 04 so be it :) then we can deal with em :))) now i know alot will think ohh but theres pirats roaming the systems.. YES there is BUT u can normaly make a deal with em, paying them a litlle amount for not chasing u around hell some of em even defends you if u paid the isk, or mins they ask for.. so it would actually benefit all.. to those who now will flame me for saying paying pirats etc.. well. thats your prop, but eve wouldent be eve without pirats.. most older players will surely agree on this and will also say they miss the integrity corps like m0o had etc. a deal was a deal.. it could be like that again u know.. i dont think pirats will keep killing everyone if they could see the benefits in letting people mine in peace and get a litlle cut or sumehting.. i say that because im a pirat myself u could say, but wtf YES that is true. i would NOT kill my income. a miner can be in the sys im in for a very litlle somehting like 5% of what he mines or whatever.. if that is to much well LOL... look at the posibilities in all this instead of flaming.. theres also an option to join an nice aliance and go mine there.. i doubt theres any macro miners there.. anyway the post was about macro miners.. this would sort many of em.. i dont see what a barge does in empire.. its an elite mining vesal and shouldent be in a 1.0 system.. treat them as capital ships. or even betetr make a capital mining vesal for sucking low ends up :) we all know how much is needed out there in 00 so that wouldent harm..
Phant Zon	Posted - 2006.07.11 09:16:00 - [49] Anglo, the issue isnt barges. Make the barges low sec only and the people who cause the issue in the first place will just switch to apocs with a slight loss in yield. I used to do a fair amount of solo mining in high-sec and even in a covetor, it would take me a few hours to make a 30km hole in a belt. ONE belt. Seeing how I live in 0.0 these days, even then id like to keep my covetor in a nice quiet system in high-sec to do a bit of mining to supplement my income, but it takes too much time to find a system thats not been picked clean to make it worth it. Everytime I decided to take a mining vacation I would have to search out a new system, possibly over a dozen jumps to move my mining setup. I started my eve life in what was mostly a small industrial corp in empire and I feel for those who would like to make this a career. Those days we would feel like pretty damn uber miners to have capped off a belt. Now I cant imagine what it must be like.
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2006.07.11 10:35:00 - [50] Anglo, alot of the players that you call pirates are not really pirates... they kill for the killboard not for the isk. Why else would you kill shuttles, noobs and so on, yes you might find someone with something expensive in it and such but still it is for the killboard they kill. I have encountered many of both sides (since I now live in low sec), some are really nice but they would still just kill me rather than ransom me, and fine ... I have accepted that and adopted to that. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.07.11 12:36:00 - [51] Maybe it would be worth it for CCP to add a separate petition "title" for MM's & Farmers. Just to help the petition traffic & queue, since they take a long time to investigate. Have a separate MM & Farmer GM team... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.07.11 12:59:00 - [52] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 11/07/2006 13:00:27 Originally by: Bhaal Maybe it would be worth it for CCP to add a separate petition "title" for MM's & Farmers. Just to help the petition traffic & queue, since they take a long time to investigate. Have a separate MM & Farmer GM team... Burn the witches... (seriously, do you realise what you sound like on that sort of riff?)
Vivus Mors	Posted - 2006.07.11 21:00:00 - [53] Edited by: Vivus Mors on 11/07/2006 21:00:26 Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 11/07/2006 13:00:27 Originally by: Bhaal Maybe it would be worth it for CCP to add a separate petition "title" for MM's & Farmers. Just to help the petition traffic & queue, since they take a long time to investigate. Have a separate MM & Farmer GM team... Burn the witches... (seriously, do you [realize] what you sound like on that sort of riff?) Perhaps someone that would like to see the preservation of their work being worth the amount of effort invested? It would be good for EVE and everyone else if macroers were more easily and directly dealt with. Not to say CCP isn’t doing anything, but when packs of them are as prevalent and easily found as they currently are, then it would seem more is necessary. Sadly, CCP’s hands are tied to some extent when all a macro operator needs to do is stay close enough on hand to reply to a GM and prove someone is there (even if not by much). CCP could and should take a much more pro-active angle against cheaters like macroers, but as with anything else there are likely to be innocents caught in the net cast to catch those doing wrong. However, regardless of what anyone sounds like, if they are railing against cheaters, then they are far better than pacifists and the undecided. Those without the fortitude to stand for what’s right stand for nothing. Calling for the detection and punishment of anyone doing wrong is a battle-cry for those with purpose and drive to defend what is worthwhile. To diminish such a “call to arms” makes one question the motivations of those belittling the stand against cheating. ------------------------------------------------- For the price of one can of Quafe cola a day, you can adopt an Ewok... Please... think of the Ewoks...
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.07.11 21:08:00 - [54] Originally by: Tarquin Tarquinius Can't CCP take legal action against websites selling ISK. Sites like GameYeah.com the fact this hasnt been deleted the above website mentioned in youre post - gameyeah is responsible for all the ingame ISK spam evemails ive been getting offering ISK for cough illegal means of course petition em or what not cant CCP take down this website for illegal activity of illegally profiting from their game - surley there is a way to take em down u will find the source of most of hte macro miners is this website - oh and while im at it if youre stupid enough to use it to cheat they will probably steal youre credit card details to boot.
Retromash	Posted - 2006.07.11 21:21:00 - [55] I vote that CCP hires [GM]Dave to take care of the problem. it may be more amusing that way. PMS - It's not just for THAT time of the month What's On Your Plate?
PeeWee Pee	Posted - 2006.07.11 22:05:00 - [56] Originally by: Mysticaa Originally by: kieron So, does CCP care? Absolutely. Are you wasting your time with a petition? Certainly not. If the player is breaking the rules, will (s)he be taken care of? Yes. It might take some time. LOL sorry this is one I can not pass up. It might take some time? What should we consider an acceptable amount of time? A week? A month? 2 months? A year? more? I opened a petition on Dec 8, 2005 about some obvious macrominers and to this date they are still mining away. And before you ask yes I know for a fact they were macromining. When their hauler was popped by an ore thief I had the pleasure of watching thier hauler go from the station to the ore fields for 6 or more hours in his pod. Does CCP care? Maybe but when it comes to fighting against macrominers they are highly ineffectual. or maybe. just maybe their is a player behind all of those you petitioned. ever thought about that??? there are sweat shops all over the world with peopel trying to feed a family by working double shift mining. you want to ban them look in the eyes of their children and tell it !
phillip duncan	Posted - 2006.07.11 22:21:00 - [57] Banning the accounts buying Isk will be more effective given the lack of skills grinding. However its harder to do. After all that good is a 1day old character with 3billion isk? They should also black list the buyers personal details like the credit card so that they cannot simply open a new account and buy a chacacter with months/years of training.
Selena 001	Posted - 2006.07.11 22:39:00 - [58] Originally by: ToxicFire You ever stopped to consider just for a second, when the GM went to check on the guy, that he responded and proved that there was actually a player there. He makes a good point... and there aren't, and will never be rules about farming cause its too problematic to sort out. ___________ NATIONAL SARCASM DAY!!
The Hand	Posted - 2006.07.11 23:07:00 - [59] Originally by: PeeWee Pee Originally by: Mysticaa Originally by: kieron So, does CCP care? Absolutely. Are you wasting your time with a petition? Certainly not. If the player is breaking the rules, will (s)he be taken care of? Yes. It might take some time. LOL sorry this is one I can not pass up. It might take some time? What should we consider an acceptable amount of time? A week? A month? 2 months? A year? more? I opened a petition on Dec 8, 2005 about some obvious macrominers and to this date they are still mining away. And before you ask yes I know for a fact they were macromining. When their hauler was popped by an ore thief I had the pleasure of watching thier hauler go from the station to the ore fields for 6 or more hours in his pod. Does CCP care? Maybe but when it comes to fighting against macrominers they are highly ineffectual. or maybe. just maybe their is a player behind all of those you petitioned. ever thought about that??? there are sweat shops all over the world with peopel trying to feed a family by working double shift mining. you want to ban them look in the eyes of their children and tell it ! I will quite happly look in to there eyes and tell them, hell ill happly look in to there eyes till i see the life sliping from them, Why? Bacause i dont care about some 3rd world country, i dont care about real world politics, your talking about the real world something that shouldnt be brought in to this game. and selling isk for cash to feed a family is briging real life in to a game. I care about eve, I care about what they are doing to eve, I care about what will happen to eve in the long term. How long to people start leaving bacause of farmers? Dont give us this sob story feel sorry for the farmer crap, cause i dont, i have no feelings for them one tiny bit, they wanna feed there familys then get a real job. As for what ccp should do, its simple, open a ebay shop selling eve items and when a player buys from them they perma ban that player and all associated accounts.. If you cut off the head the body will die.. No coustomers no farmers.
Dr Conelli	Posted - 2006.07.12 14:38:00 - [60] I dont know if CCP cares ( i guess they do, did u ever read their posts ? ) but its nice to see that u care and that u keep us informed about your worries by posting on the forum. /me moves on, its just another Macrominer thread

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