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Pirindolo
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Posted - 2003.10.02 20:16:00 -
[1]
 Quote:
TomB > The highway jumps will rather be something you use if you are in a very big hurry and want to loose some money...
...TomB > But rather toll players for using them, based on mass of the ship.
Remember how much people were complaining about the ultra long time of the trips before the highways were introduced?
Well, at least you will introduce jump drives for Battleships at the same time, won't you????
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.10.02 20:19:00 -
[2]
You didn't read the bit where it said you have to pay according to ship-size, right?
If you want to get there fast, but you're skint, use a shuttle. And hey, you'll get Interbus soon too ;)
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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sutty
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Posted - 2003.10.02 20:20:00 -
[3]
jump drives no doubt wont be able to travel the distance that highways make you travel, maybe 1-2 jumps or somthing but i doubt the distance of highways
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Pirindolo
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Posted - 2003.10.02 20:24:00 -
[4]
whatever they help to shorten travel time is welcome. It is time to intruce them!!!!!
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Freezer
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Posted - 2003.10.02 20:39:00 -
[5]
Jump drives won't be distance limited, but very power restricted. They might fit in a battleship. maybe.....
Mostly for Titans.
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Pirindolo
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Posted - 2003.10.02 20:43:00 -
[6]
****!!!! We need some dev to clarify it for once and for all.
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Skillz
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Posted - 2003.10.02 21:03:00 -
[7]
I suspect that CCP will solve the inflation problem before introducing any new stuff.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Snoop
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Posted - 2003.10.02 21:07:00 -
[8]
/me beg's for jumpdrives
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Erty
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Posted - 2003.10.02 21:14:00 -
[9]
Skillz don't you mean deflation? 
This is my signature. |
Karif
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Posted - 2003.10.02 21:29:00 -
[10]
I find it quite funny that the people who cried foul about the Superhighways systems are the ones who want to monopolize markets.
Basically, they want only the "good" aspects of the free market system without actually having a free market system.
Very funny stuff when you think about it.
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Deception + Information + Skill |
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.02 21:32:00 -
[11]
Quote:
I find it quite funny that the people who cried foul about the Superhighways systems are the ones who want to monopolize markets.
Basically, they want only the "good" aspects of the free market system without actually having a free market system.
Very funny stuff when you think about it.
I cry foul about the superhighways. If I wanted to, I could monopolize the market in Heimatar. The highways just open up the markets from Heimatar to Tash-Murkon with a single 5 jump indy trip.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Karif
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Posted - 2003.10.02 21:37:00 -
[12]
I cry foul about the superhighways. If I wanted to, I could monopolize the market in Heimatar. The highways just open up the markets from Heimatar to Tash-Murkon with a single 5 jump indy trip.
Precisely.
Fewer markets undermine the free market system.
Without new markets, the system begins to collapse under its own structural weight of desire for profit driving prices into the ground due to competition.
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Deception + Information + Skill |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.02 21:49:00 -
[13]
Quote:
I cry foul about the superhighways. If I wanted to, I could monopolize the market in Heimatar. The highways just open up the markets from Heimatar to Tash-Murkon with a single 5 jump indy trip.
Precisely.
Fewer markets undermine the free market system.
Without new markets, the system begins to collapse under its own structural weight of desire for profit driving prices into the ground due to competition.
Except you forget the lack of demand and the overabundance of the manufacturers in Eve. When I said I could monopolize the market in Heimatar and the highways just open up the markets all the way to Tash Murkon, I didn't mean compete fairly. I meant slaughter the markets as well.
A single manufacturer can set bottom rung on many products because of the limited demand. Because of the highways they can also deliver enough of those products to cover all the regions. If only 100 multifrequency m crystals are being sold per day in the game, don't you think it better that 10 different people make the sale instead of 1?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Pirindolo
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Posted - 2003.10.02 22:05:00 -
[14]
what will happen to the small producer once the toll is working? He or some corpmate will have to travel along 80 systems to put their products at any given place. That time, or the cost of using the highway, will be much harder for this corp than it will be for big megacorps, since they can send 15 pilots in 15 iteron V to make those 80 jumps so easily.
Bad news, tomb, very bad news.
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Aissa
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Posted - 2003.10.02 23:12:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Aissa on 02/10/2003 23:13:02
You'd only do what will naturally occur over time, and even then you wouldn't have a true monopoly because of one of the underlying problems that isn't a jumpgate.
I'll explain that a little later on.
Free market systems, unless propped up with things like tariffs, taxes, import/export restrictions, new markets, and the other plethora of structural systems, the naturally collapse over time. It doesn't actually matter who and how many are doing it as long as monopolies or ologopolies haven't formed. It is a natural function of the system according Keynsian Economic theory.
Incedentally, by your premise, all you'd need to do is find systems that exist 10-15 jumps out from supergates - and many do exist - to find demand/markets. Not many bother given the low demand, but its there - but you can't find it since it is always forced to move towards the supergate systems because there is no supply. Time as they say is money. Do I pay 200k for the item from the guy selling 1 jump from me, or for 150k if I make a 20-30 jump round trip? A 15-20 jump round trip?
How much of an opportunity cost is involved in both? That's about 20-30 minutes of time, which for me can be anywhere from 100k of cold hard ISK from agent missions, or a certain amount of minerals mined, a wad of ISK plus recyclables plus the chance at a rare drop that could be worth millions.
The more expensive the item, the further someone might travel to acquire the item.
Of course, this is where one of the real problems are, but nobody wants to talk about it. The market loot NPC rats provide - zero-cost market-ready items. Any real cost involved in killing an NPC rat is fully absorbed by the CONCORD bounty. Since demand for items is already low, a manufacturing monopoly ends up competing with the virtually zero-input rat hunters.
So one way to improve the market is to actually remove the zero-input rat dropped market items. The bounty plus the chance at a rare drop would be enough to keep the profession viable and might help the server database as fewer loot cans get ejected into the environment until they expire. While this won't make a much of a big impact now (until existing supplies dry up, get recycled, etc), it would've at the beginning.
Of course, this all hinges on actually making the game unfair, which is what a market needs. It requires unequal access to production system, and while EVE has a few restrictions, they certainly aren't enough to prevent every Tom, D i c k and Harry from having access to a bunch of BPs and a Factory. The more producers in the system, the faster it collapses. Fewer producers slow this system down, and if you have a small enough number (less than 10-12) ologopolies tend to form to prevent the market from buckling.
Doh, so much for posting under an alt...I always enjoyed the silence
~Aissa
Nomad, Dictionary and Encyclopedia of The Regulators |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2003.10.02 23:20:00 -
[16]
They should just let pilots be able to be carried by other pilots. :) Imagine needing to get somewhere and your corp buddy can take you along for a ride. Hopefully not getting his butt kicked along the way, of course.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Sylvius
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Posted - 2003.10.02 23:49:00 -
[17]
So the question is, will we then be able to program our autopilot to avoid highway gates? |
Sedsiss
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Posted - 2003.10.03 00:35:00 -
[18]
The way I i've been led to believe Jump Drives work, is that they are not distance limited. Instead, the longer the jump, the longer it takes for your drives to "charge", could take minutes, could take days or even weeks for really really large jumps.
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Kerry
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Posted - 2003.10.03 00:37:00 -
[19]
Is introducing tolls another way to increase drasticly the huge gigantic time sink of traveling?
Like removing ALL of the agility from all of the ships?
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Wolf Leader
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Posted - 2003.10.03 02:16:00 -
[20]
From one end of the universe to the other should be a max charge time of a day or two you can fly across the universe in two days.
But im a nice guy..... |
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Golgrath
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Posted - 2003.10.03 04:41:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Golgrath on 03/10/2003 04:43:56
Yes Kerry that's the plan. People are getting to battleships too soon and CCP needs to restrict the
money making. That is also the reason they wont ever add an option to the autopilot to make use of
afterburners and mwd's.
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Jojin
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Posted - 2003.10.03 05:49:00 -
[22]
Toll highways will be a good addition. Tolls will make it harder to compete with local market individuals because of the shipping costs. It will also add another element into the game just to give a bit more realism. I always wondered who in the heck was paying for the jump gates.
One other thing this points to is another step towards the idea of owning/building jump gates and charging tolls for use.
I think it is still too soon for Jump Drives. This technology will have a massive impact upon many of the other features in the game at the present time and on the board.
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Lord Azraiel
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Posted - 2003.10.03 06:30:00 -
[23]
Jump drives if introduced would take the game and hit it in the jaw with an uber uppercut. They are distance limited, and take large sums of power gird to work. You need to learn the jumpdrive skill itself, and the astrometric skill. The astrometric skill is skill with long range scanners, and the higher this is, the further you can jump in 1 jump. That is my understanding of it. They are doubtfull to come out anytime before titans do, because of the huge powergrid required to run one.
"I'm comin' for ya, and Hell's comin' with me!" |
Pirindolo
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Posted - 2003.10.03 06:58:00 -
[24]
Yes, yes, all that is very interesting, but once again I say:
Do you think that EVE will be more interesting (specially for small corp and freelancers) when we are forced to spend 50% of the time we are playing EVE in everlasting travels?
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Severus Trajan
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Posted - 2003.10.03 07:07:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Jump drives...might fit in a battleship. maybe.....
Mostly for Titans.
I dunno, I'd like to see at least low-tech jumpdrives only being able to be fitted on frigates, then perhaps move up the scale as tech progresses.
What Eve doesn't need right now is another advantage to be flying the biggest d**k extension available. There are already too many battleships around.
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Roba
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Posted - 2003.10.03 07:13:00 -
[26]
WHOA BIG QUESTION. WILL SHIPS CARGO AFFECT THE MASS OF THE SHIP?
sorry for the caps.
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Pirindolo
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Posted - 2003.10.03 07:29:00 -
[27]
This is not a market problem, this is a bigger problem. If you are worried because of free, relatively easy access markets, just put huge taxes between empires or regions, but don't make EVE a flight simulator, please.
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Pirindolo
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Posted - 2003.10.03 13:49:00 -
[28]
Instead of the mass of the ship, the toll should be fixed to the cargo it is hauling.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.03 13:57:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Yes, yes, all that is very interesting, but once again I say:
Do you think that EVE will be more interesting (specially for small corp and freelancers) when we are forced to spend 50% of the time we are playing EVE in everlasting travels?
The only people that complain about the travel time are the ones attempting to do stuff they're too lazy to do in the first place.
Mining bistot? Nobody uses the highways to mine bistot. Hunt worthwhile pirates? 0.0 space didn't move. It's still not highway accessible.
To get a cargo full of bistot in my Mammoth required 4 corp members and 34 jumps round trip for 3.2m value in minerals once refined. Divided by the number of people involved, we could have made more isk trading individually on the highways. That's an imbalance.
You want to trade and make more isk than those who do more jumps to make similiar isk. Well those that do the jumps don't want you to. You don't like it, stay in your own regions.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Pirindolo
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Posted - 2003.10.03 15:28:00 -
[30]
Forget the f*****g cash!!!!
This is not a problem of economy, market or profits for me. It's a problem of fun. I don't have fun spending most of the time traveling. That's all.
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