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Portrait Script-Needs Official CCP Ruleing

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
TheBigPic	Posted - 2006.07.13 07:54:00 - [1] Edited by: TheBigPic on 13/07/2006 07:58:17 I am re-writeing a batch file currently used by another alliance in game that will redraw the portraits in chat windows such as local/corp/alliance chat according to info downloaded from a central server (thus allowing a central administration of current changes in standing and what not). I was haveing a disscussion with my corp leader who brought up the legitimacy of such a program. Up to that time I had assumed that since the other alliance was useing it and CCP hadn't started banning everybody in sight that it was at least being ignored by CCP if not officially approved, but wanted to get a dev's oppinion on this before going to much further in the re-write. Becuase of the possibility of this type of thing being miss-used/miss-interpreted by others, I want to clearly define the type of batch file that I am talking about: 1. The main reason I am re-writeing it is because the version the other alliance uses is a bunch of compiled C++ .EXE files, which I don't like becuase of their possibility of hideing key-loggers/other inappropriate software (I am not accuseing them of that, infact I have looked at their source code and it is clean, but the possibility for abuse is there, and that is why I wont use it in my version). This has lead me to re-write it entirely as a .CMD style batch files and .CSV text files. The only .EXE files that will be left in mine will be WGet.exe (required to get files downloaded from a web site with a batch file) and two .DLL files that it requires, and 7za.exe (7ZIP) that will be used for uncompressing the stack of templates for the portrait program. Becuase that still leaves the possibilty for abuse open, I would NOT be includeing them in the released version of the client, but would instead require them to be downloaded direct from the vendor to make sure it is a clean copy. 2. The files downloaded would be a .CSV text file for the list of what gets copied where, and a .7z file that will contain compressed versions of the altered .PNG protrait files. 3. The file will not alter any other game files other than the 64x64 pixel .PNG chat portraits. 4. It will not alter any data-streams between the client and CCP's servers, indeed it can't because.... 5. The batch file will completly terminate (Nothing stays resident) before the EvE client is loaded. 6. It would be removeable simply by deleteing the files and clearing the cache. I was hopeing to get an official ruleing from CCP about this kind of batch file, whether it be Ban-On-Sight, Official Approval, or Disapprove-of-But-Can't-Track-So-Don't-Care. If you needed further info before makeing that kind of ruleing, please ask. Hopeing for a responce as soon as it is possible becuase the file is nearing completion.
Nate D	Posted - 2006.07.13 08:00:00 - [2] anything that gives you a leg up on other players is suposed to be against the EULA. But I'm interested. What's different about the portraits. I've always wanted Local chat to have an outline around each player's name. The outline would be the color of the standing that they're set to. -Nate D ----------------------- My Resume is bait for a job at CCP.
TheBigPic	Posted - 2006.07.13 08:04:00 - [3] The ones I am makeing would have a solid background (Red for war, blue for alliance, orange for hostile...) and a corp ticker if needed, just something that would give you a heads up about the characters intentions in your area.
Nate D	Posted - 2006.07.13 08:08:00 - [4] having a program tnat modifies stuff on the server is against EULA as well but this only modifies the local environment with public information. So I supose the question is... does having this information give you a leg up... I'd say yes, unfortunatly. Haha... but AH! if other players are already using such things then it's not giving anyone a leg up... it's making them equal! But I'd love it if CCP would allow it or port it into an official EVE release. -Nate D ----------------------- My Resume is bait for a job at CCP.
Nate D	Posted - 2006.07.13 08:10:00 - [5] Originally by: TheBigPic The ones I am makeing would have a solid background (Red for war, blue for alliance, orange for hostile...) and a corp ticker if needed, just something that would give you a heads up about the characters intentions in your area. What about neutral or corp? or +standing... ----------------------- My Resume is bait for a job at CCP.
Gallentiel	Posted - 2006.07.13 08:16:00 - [6] Edited by: Gallentiel on 13/07/2006 08:19:32 Whoops posted in the wrong window. Ignore. Cogito Eggo Sum "I Think, therefor I am a waffle....."
TheBigPic	Posted - 2006.07.13 08:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Nate D What about neutral or corp? or +standing... Unfortunatly, the data would have to be manually entered, and as you can immagine for a larg corp, there would be alot of data, thus makeing it time/server space prohibitive to make new icons for everyone in the game :-P It would have to be limited down to basically who is alliance, who is freindly, who is hostile, and who is at war, neutrals would be automatic just by leaveing them off the list :-)
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2006.07.13 09:20:00 - [8] EULA, section 7.2 states, "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played." I wrote the same little gizzmo, just to see if it could be done, and it can easily enough - but then thought I better check and ... well, there it is. -AS
Alaesa	Posted - 2006.07.13 10:36:00 - [9] The GM's said that this is a sploit but they cant detect it so goonfleet get away with it. We are talking about goonfleet chat portraits here arnt we ?
Panzer Klien	Posted - 2006.07.13 10:44:00 - [10] Edited by: Panzer Klien on 13/07/2006 10:45:11 Goonfleet asked a CCP Employee, someone who ranks above the volunteer forum mods and they said it was fine and dandy. Everytime someone brings this up a goon alt posts the email and the thread gets locked for disclosing private communications.
MrCue	Posted - 2006.07.13 11:09:00 - [11] Edited by: MrCue on 13/07/2006 11:09:35 I know of several corps also that use this, and indeed looked into it myself. In essence, all you are really doing is removing the need to "Show Info" on all the people in local. If anything, surley you are doing CCP a favour by removing some of the pointless server load created by 2 (or more) fleets checking info on each other. An official response would be nice (infact, i dont know why CCP hasnt implemented this already, it is unbeliveably simple.) Killmail Database
Zarch AlDain	Posted - 2006.07.13 11:23:00 - [12] It does sound extremely useful... Zarch AlDain The Blackwater Brigade Huzzah Federation
Ur Dirac	Posted - 2006.07.13 11:52:00 - [13] Edited by: Ur Dirac on 13/07/2006 11:55:01 BigPic, this is an interesting idea, do you check your evemail or is this just a no-name alt? I'd like to discuss this with you, so expect an evemail tonight if that's alright.
Ellaine TashMurkon	Posted - 2006.07.13 11:58:00 - [14] Wooo, grat idea, so if its legal, I'll write my own version :)
TheBigPic	Posted - 2006.07.13 17:25:00 - [15] Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon Wooo, grat idea, so if its legal, I'll write my own version :) If allowed, I will release my version for everybody, so don't bother :-P
TheBigPic	Posted - 2006.07.13 17:25:00 - [16] Originally by: Ur Dirac Edited by: Ur Dirac on 13/07/2006 11:55:01 BigPic, this is an interesting idea, do you check your evemail or is this just a no-name alt? I'd like to discuss this with you, so expect an evemail tonight if that's alright. I was planning on if it was legal, releaseing my version for everybody, this is the character that would monitor/administer in that case, so yah, I monitor this character (but no it is not my main)
TheBigPic	Posted - 2006.07.13 17:28:00 - [17] Originally by: MrCue Edited by: MrCue on 13/07/2006 11:09:35 I know of several corps also that use this, and indeed looked into it myself. In essence, all you are really doing is removing the need to "Show Info" on all the people in local. If anything, surley you are doing CCP a favour by removing some of the pointless server load created by 2 (or more) fleets checking info on each other. An official response would be nice (infact, i dont know why CCP hasnt implemented this already, it is unbeliveably simple.) That was what I was under the impression of, it redueces server drag on haveing to generate these pictures on a one on one basis, and makes the local chat useful for telling at a glance if it is a friendly or not, basically the "Show Info" info without haveing to open a page for everyone that warps in the system.
TheBigPic	Posted - 2006.07.13 17:36:00 - [18] Originally by: Panzer Klien Edited by: Panzer Klien on 13/07/2006 10:46:24 Edited by: Panzer Klien on 13/07/2006 10:45:11 Goonfleet asked a CCP Employee, someone who ranks above the volunteer forum mods and they said it was fine and dandy in that it can't be detected and they don't really care.. Everytime someone brings this up a goon alt posts the email and the thread gets locked for disclosing private communications. Ah, that would probably explain why I remember reading it somewhere, but was unable to find it again :-P
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.07.13 19:35:00 - [19] I have been told a number of people have been banned for using this. It was posted a while back in General Discussion, and immediately branded an exploit and the thread locked. The advantage such a tool gives is extremely obvious, and unfair to anyone not using it. --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II-
MrCue	Posted - 2006.07.13 19:51:00 - [20] Originally by: Dark Shikari The advantage such a tool gives is extremely obvious, and unfair to anyone not using it. Hence the reason CCP should have introduced something so SIMPLE a long time ago as a standard feature. Killmail Database
Justin Thyme	Posted - 2006.07.13 19:52:00 - [21] Edited by: Justin Thyme on 13/07/2006 19:55:44 Originally by: Dark Shikari The advantage such a tool gives is extremely obvious, and unfair to anyone not using it. I agree. I also agree with previous posters who sudgested that CCP actualy add it into the game. It should help with lag as was mentioned earlier. 20 ships not checking the info page would be a big help. It would be a great feature. I'm changeing over to a Low sec corp. And I really would like it if I didn't get blown up cause someone didn't recognise my name and was to tired to check my info. "Hunting rats is like minning for scrap metal... and occationaly striking gold" -- Justin Thyme I don't shoot people. That would be wrong. I do however shoot Ore Thieves. -- Justin Thyme
TheBigPic	Posted - 2006.07.14 02:42:00 - [22] Originally by: MrCue Originally by: Dark Shikari The advantage such a tool gives is extremely obvious, and unfair to anyone not using it. Hence the reason CCP should have introduced something so SIMPLE a long time ago as a standard feature. I can attest to its ease of use myself, haveing written a bascally working version if about 2 hours, and was currently just tweaking the code a little/makeing the pictures needed for the templates. I then got scared and removed it from my eve client until I got a ruleing on this from CCP.
TheBigPic	Posted - 2006.07.14 02:50:00 - [23] Originally by: Justin Thyme Edited by: Justin Thyme on 13/07/2006 19:55:44 Originally by: Dark Shikari The advantage such a tool gives is extremely obvious, and unfair to anyone not using it. I agree. I also agree with previous posters who sudgested that CCP actualy add it into the game. It should help with lag as was mentioned earlier. 20 ships not checking the info page would be a big help. It would be a great feature. I'm changeing over to a Low sec corp. And I really would like it if I didn't get blown up cause someone didn't recognise my name and was to tired to check my info. I agree that this should be implemented, but rather than just complaining about it, I am willing to write the code needed to fix the problem. It currently is just to clunky a interface to have to right click everyone's portrait and show info for everybody who warps into the system. This sort of thing is easy to impliment, however I can kinda see if from CCP's viewpoint, if they release it they have to support it when it breaks kind of issue, and they would have to host all the different alliances that wanted to do that. I am offering to release the code and support it myself, alliance's that use it would have to find their own server space, problem solved. Embarisingly simple to impliment for them, all they need to do is say yes.
Cathandra	Posted - 2006.07.14 04:32:00 - [24] CCP please build this into the client and make it standard!
TheBigPic	Posted - 2006.07.14 18:36:00 - [25] Originally by: Dark Shikari I have been told a number of people have been banned for using this. It was posted a while back in General Discussion, and immediately branded an exploit and the thread locked. The advantage such a tool gives is extremely obvious, and unfair to anyone not using it. It probably is technically considered an "Exploit", but who was banned? The impression that I get is that several alliances use this kind of thing currently, thus begging the question is it an "Exploit" that CCP actually cares about? That is my real question, am I ACTUALLY (not supposed-to-be) going to get banned for this?
Belinda HwaFang Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.15 10:48:00 - [26] An interesting thread. I'm not an EVE EULA / CCP Politics expert but my initial reaction is that using such a program will be considered an exploit because: a) it relies on a 3rd party piece of software running while you run the game b) it modifies the way the game is played c) You get an advantage over other players (actually the weakest of the 3 reasons imo) -- On the other hand you don't (from the information you gave us) display any information that isn't already available in the game, you just cut down the clicking to get to it. Local Chat is rather important, and I think the UI around it needs some work. Have you tried creating a GM request through eve-online and attaching your source code? It might inspire CCP to integrate it (or something similar). -- Given that CCP isn't using scanning software to scan what you are running on your computer, and given that you are not getting information that is not already available just a bit (undetectably?) faster, I really can't see how CCP will detect and punish abusers of this software. I leave it to your conscience. -- Belinda HwaFang [IEND] Infinity's End
Prestis	Posted - 2006.07.15 11:08:00 - [27] Yes, in a low-pop 0.0 system it's really just saving you a couple of mouse clicks, but in empire wars, say in Jita, it's an enourmous advantage. Scrolling down a list of 300+ people and getting an exact hostile count at a glance is such an advantage over going blind or trying to Show Info on hundreds of (rapidly changing) people that your war gang would be crippled without it. Hopefully more people start using it and it forces whole local chat issue.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.15 12:51:00 - [28] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 15/07/2006 12:51:02 I hope everyone that uses such an ap get permanantly banned. Team Minmatar
Avon Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.15 13:12:00 - [29] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 15/07/2006 12:51:02 I hope everyone that uses such an ap get permanantly banned. Agree. CCP are on record as stating they don't want local to be an intel gathering tool - and that is exactly what this modification makes it. CCP need to start occasional client integrity checks. If people know they are looking for it, maybe they won't flaunt the rules so blatantly. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Johnny Interface	Posted - 2006.07.15 14:45:00 - [30] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 15/07/2006 12:51:02 I hope everyone that uses such an ap get permanantly banned. Agree. CCP are on record as stating they don't want local to be an intel gathering tool - and that is exactly what this modification makes it. I don't know the first thing about this script but I use Local as an Intel gathering tool ALL the time. In fact it's probably the only reason I keep the Local window up at all times in the first place. I also know that others are doing the same with regard to me. If CCP really want to forbid you to know which pirates are operating in your system just by looking at local (and for the pirates to see their prey enter the system in the same way, they should remove the ability to show portraits (channel list) for Local.

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