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corbexx
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Posted - 2014.08.25 19:23:00 -
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Valenthe de Celine wrote:Syndiaan wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Syndiaan wrote:Why do you insist on wormhole people looking to find content to have to risk billions of isk in order to do so?
Yes we use cov ops to scout just like you, the difference is you don't have to roll holes or scan out the systems. Spend the time scanning out all the sigs in the chain, just to find out there is nothing there. Now we have to come back and deal with rolling the wormhole with capitals getting shot out 20km away, so the choice is to either warp off and warp back or slowboat in a capital 20km. After that is done guess what, rinse and repeat, sometimes can take 10 + times doing it before you find something worth doing. the point here is that you don't actually have to risk billions of isk to do so, it just makes it faster a game mechanic becoming LESS feasible is not the same thing as making it UNFEASIBLE the change is slowing down the rate at which you can do this by adding the risk + warp or slowboat factor if you are referring to rolling connections with just subcaps then you are clearly underestimating the time it would take to roll a c6/5 wormhole with subcaps. You have to consider even the highest mass battleship would have to make LOTS of trips and after each trip you are polarized for 5 minutes not to mention without a capital ship to anchor on the other side there is a chance you are going to mass crit it and then have to use HICs to close it which then can take anywhere between 1 - 6 trips in order to close it, and still have a small risk of getting the HIC rolled out. Most C5 holes: 10 battleships with MWD and most will close after the fleet jumps out and back. Sometimes the hole will close early, sometimes the hole won't be closed after this and more mass will be needed. But there you have it, 10 ships. Alternatively you could use 5 ships and wait between jumps for polarity to expire. As you want to jump things sequentially, it shouldn't add much time for 5 ships to do what 10 ships could.
To do this properly you want to use a orca, other wise your well on your way to having to use a closing hic (which in wh terms mean you ****** up rolling) Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
corbexx
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Posted - 2014.08.25 19:55:00 -
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right haven't posted in here in a while, but since i'm ill and in a bit of a mood I thought what better time than now to post.
So first this is going to effect ******* everyone. Second one of the key features I feel the devs are missing is that doing nothing is a choice.
ooh it will make it risker for people they have to roll if they want to farm so thats content.
Wrong. If its a big group on the other side they will exercise there choice to do nothing and just log. This happens already, we connect to a farming group who is likely to run sites, we wait they log on scan, see a wh jump in, ooh its noho. No pve today log off guys. If it happens now it will sure as hell happen after.
If your a big group who likes to rage roll it propably wont affect you as much except for a few things.
Its going to take longer, you can mitigate this a bit with a nano carrier but this still has issues. What if you like to roll the static of your static so you can fight other people. We often roll for a c6 -c5 so we can roll the c5 to fight different people for this you need a combat carrier so rolling that will take even longer.
Now on to "it will take longer" This change is ment to make it riskier. But you know what. for farming it will be safer. Yeah god damn safer, for escalation you only have so many sites so you are only in space for so long and at risk for so long. With it taking longer to roll you have less chances of catching people doing sites.
Ohh you can roll with bs's etc yeah ok. so lets look at this.The max distance for bs is 8.8km so while alot quicker than a carrier will still be longer than what it is now. You will also need twice the amount of people to do this so will be harder for the smaller groups. And last but not least with out a god damn ******* orca you risk needing to use a closing hic which will add even more ******* time on to rolling. So keep that in mind before saying ooh bs is quicker. If you want to do it with a orca then your only slightly faster than using a cap. and you have the down side of needing twice the people.
Your moving from a area of known stuff to luck. While i know some people want there to be more unknown stuff (which I don't mind) moving to any luck based system is terrible.Having ships spawn in random directions is bad. will my ships bein refit or wont they. Now if and i say you had control over this I wouldnt mind so much for example. If the direction you were in when jumping through the wormhole effected where you came out I wouldnt mined. Along with the speed you were doing (maybe have it based on a % of your max speed) affected how far from the wormhole you appeared. This woudl be fine it would give you options and choices to use to tactical advantage. As it is its random bs luck.
If it affects the bigger groups you can bet your arse its going to affect the smaller groups way more, and you'd be right. rolling c2 to c4 will be even more of a pain. you could do it a bit safer with battleships and not orcas but its still going to add alot more time on to you. smaller groups also don't have the luxury of having a nice big support fleet, to protect them.
You combine this with the fact that income in the lower class wh's isn't that good and you can make more in hisec doing incursions.
TLDR Its still a pants on head idea and terrible.
I know a fair few groups who have moved out or moving and I'll be straight up and honest this change worries the **** out of me. Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
corbexx
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Posted - 2014.08.25 21:16:00 -
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Jezza McWaffle wrote:+1 to Corbex's post. Its pretty good reason why its a **** idea and why it will remain a **** idea. Rage rolling wont be affected risk wise since you can still role faster than they can catch you. It will however make rage rolling more of a pain in the ass then it is already and CCP obviously do not understand why we rage roll in the first place, and a hint btw it is not to do with ganking people.
This change WILL kill off a part of WH space, that is a fact and if you don't understand why then you shouldn't be in this thread in the first place.
This is a very good point and one i left out. Alot of people are assuming rage rolling is for finding pvp and only done for that reason. Rage rolling is often done for loads of reasons (finding pvp being one of them) but its also used to other stuff. like getting supplys in from hisec. Heaven forbid some one is leaving wh space and needs to move caps out. you know what rage roll to find exits. Hey we just when bhaals deep and got stuff stuck. rage roll to find them. We have caps to bring in and no entrance, rage roll.
There are loads of reasons to rage roll not just pvp. and for the bigger corps its not going to be more risky just more of a pain in the arse and time consuming. For smaller corps well your in a much worse state. so much worse I can see people leaving over it (which they have already started to) Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
corbexx
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Posted - 2014.08.25 21:21:00 -
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Go on i'll bite cos i'm bored
Promiscuous Female wrote: I did -- none of it actually proved that I don't know what I'm talking about
Ok so you have read my post whats wrong with it or what don't you agree with, or do you agree with it? Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
corbexx
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Posted - 2014.08.25 21:54:00 -
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Promiscuous Female wrote:corbexx wrote:Go on i'll bite cos i'm bored Promiscuous Female wrote: I did -- none of it actually proved that I don't know what I'm talking about
Ok so you have read my post whats wrong with it or what don't you agree with, or do you agree with it? your lengthy post, in general, has a fair assessment of how player behavior might change when the change goes through however you are making a lot of assumptions on how people will react to things and I don't really agree with all of them but my opinions on how players will handle the change are similarly up in the air so I can't really concede or disagree meaningfully there my main problem is that you're falling into the trap where refitting is some sacred cow that you are entitled to have -- it's difficult for me to sympathize with this (and, in fact, I would prefer that refitting be completely disallowed inside of the 15 minute aggression timer) your proposed solution for controlling how far you appear from other people is basically garbage since no one in their right mind would jump through a wormhole at anything but the minimum required to land in refit, it's too optimizable and doesn't actually change anything you're also warning of the dangers of people choosing to do nothing, which isn't really a danger people are not required to prostate themselves towards your guns and allow you to destroy them, logging off is a valid option to deny you kills and make you go away you end your post with another vague threat of unsubs, which is typical eve-o garbage which has never worked so I'm not sure why you bothered
ok first how long have you lived in wh space for and what class?.
Yes some of it is assumptions although alot of it is based of facts that happen now. So I'm very confident in them.
The bit about refitting is a fair comment and I will answer in a bit more depth. a few corps do go all in bhaals deep. now when this happens its normally in someones home system where you can be facing a huge cap disadvantage. being able to refit is key to being able to take these fights. the simple fact is without this people wont atempt them or at the very least will be way less likely. its not a case of "our right" its a case of hey we have a chance and hey we dont have a chance so wont risk it. which means less pvp.
the bit about proposed solution I find a bit harsh as numbers and stuff could be changed but if say you woudl be 30km from the wh. then this might lead to kiting fleets going for it. yeah it might not be used but it gives people the option. again its worth saying distances and stuff liek taht woudl need to be looked at so saying its bs without knowing any of these is a bit off.
as for people doing nothing and that not being a danger , it is iff people arent doing anything they arent risking anything and that defeats the whole point of this change.
Yes logging off and doing nothing is totally valid and denying me kills is fine but its defeating the point of this change, if people arent prepared to roll the wh cos its to risky why even change it. Having it so you can jump back attually gives smaller groups a chance to fight bigger groups by slamming the door in there face and limiting numbers to a level they can fight.
I didnt mention anything about unsubbing at all. I said people are leaving wh space several corps have already done this. one is also looking at leaving or merging.
but if you could please let me know the stuff about what wh's you have lived in and for how long. Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
corbexx
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Posted - 2014.08.25 22:26:00 -
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Promiscuous Female wrote:Rroff wrote: Can you imagine all the "but your not a member of a nullsec corp/alliance so what would you know" put downs? lol
point me at 'em when they come up and i'll strike them down just like I did here
Going to assume you haven't lived in wh space at this point So to plagiarize and this isn't a direct attack at you.
Here's the hard truth: If you don't live in W-space, and you've never lived there, your opinion about how W-space should or shouldn't be is worse than irrelevant: you are the virgin offering advice on how to get laid. Like a virgin, you probably genuinely believe that your opinion matters and that the mere fact that you have no personal experience on the topic shouldn't invalidate your opinion, while everyone else listening to you is quietly shaking their head.
I'll leave you now to go and strike them down in the comments on http://themittani.com/content/traffic-control-unknown-virgins
Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
corbexx
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Posted - 2014.08.25 22:32:00 -
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epicurus ataraxia wrote:Hang on? Did a goon just criticise the wormhole CSM's knowledge and experience? Did she really say his idea was Basically garbage? Wow. Who knew, they were so knowledgable, they must have been planning the invasion for years.
I'm fine with people doing that as long as they can back it up and happy with me returning the favour. Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
corbexx
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Posted - 2014.08.25 23:07:00 -
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Promiscuous Female wrote:corbexx wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Rroff wrote: Can you imagine all the "but your not a member of a nullsec corp/alliance so what would you know" put downs? lol
point me at 'em when they come up and i'll strike them down just like I did here Going to assume you haven't lived in wh space at this point So to plagiarize and this isn't a direct attack at you. Here's the hard truth: If you don't live in W-space, and you've never lived there, your opinion about how W-space should or shouldn't be is worse than irrelevant: you are the virgin offering advice on how to get laid. Like a virgin, you probably genuinely believe that your opinion matters and that the mere fact that you have no personal experience on the topic shouldn't invalidate your opinion, while everyone else listening to you is quietly shaking their head. I'll leave you now to go and strike them down in the comments on http://themittani.com/content/traffic-control-unknown-virgins sorry about that, had to go to a meeting the mittani is wrong and that article is hot buttered sewage because he's falling into the same trap that you guys are -- your alliance does not indicate your ability to speak about a subject though if you must know I spent about a year in a C5 with a C5 static this is completely irrelevant to anything we've talked about, however and you and everyone else continue to lean on this "you must live in wormholes to be able to speak about them" crutch because you have no capacity for making a rational argument how is ccp supposed to see your side when all you can say is "you haven't lived it, you have no say in the matter"
ok so you know you dont roll wh's with 3 dreads? right cos one of the issues is you have people who say they do know stuff and comment when what they say leads towards them not knowing and making comments based on the wrong info Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
corbexx
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Posted - 2014.08.25 23:27:00 -
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Promiscuous Female wrote:corbexx wrote:ok so you know you dont roll wh's with 3 dreads? right cos one of the issues is you have people who say they do know stuff and comment when what they say leads towards them not knowing and making comments based on the wrong info see, was that so hard? it only took four pages for one of you to finally find a hole in my knowledge i swear i give you all the perfect amount of rope to hang me and you sit around going "huh what's the rope for" it was a fat finger unfortunately, and for that I do apologize a C5 hole typically has a maximum mass of 3b and a dread has 1.2-1.3 or so, you'd want to roll with 2 to avoid locking someone out
I'd stop right here, please your making yourself look bad now rolling with 2 dreads would just have 1 stuck on wrong side.
This really highlights my earlier point of people making comments based on facts they think they know, that are just wrong.
off to bed now, but was a fun discussion. we'll have to continue it some time in a null thread. Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
corbexx
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Posted - 2014.08.25 23:31:00 -
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Alundil wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:corbexx wrote:ok so you know you dont roll wh's with 3 dreads? right cos one of the issues is you have people who say they do know stuff and comment when what they say leads towards them not knowing and making comments based on the wrong info see, was that so hard? it only took four pages for one of you to finally find a hole in my knowledge i swear i give you all the perfect amount of rope to hang me and you sit around going "huh what's the rope for" it was a fat finger unfortunately, and for that I do apologize a C5 hole typically has a maximum mass of 3b and a dread has 1.2-1.3 or so, you'd want to roll with 2 to avoid locking someone out On a 3b hole, if you jump two dreads out only one is making the return trip. 2 dreads/2jumps > 3b You want a 'do over'?
3rd times a charm. Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
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corbexx
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Posted - 2014.08.26 01:56:00 -
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Promiscuous Female wrote:it's still curious to me though
why did you wait so long to just say the thing I got wrong
you could have saved so much time on this by just pointing it out
consider it a token lesson for next time
with 12 hours on the clock I doubt it matters much now :sun:
Tbh I just wanted to post my main post but then I after the discussion, I went back to check some of your stuff. Frankly I couldn't careless about where you live in game or what you do. Your right, you are free to comment on stuff, that's fine. But the issue is you come on here you post all this stuff about what you think of the change, when you don't even understand the very basics of the change. Closing a c5 to c5 is literally one of the easiest wormholes in game to close. Now if you don't understand the very basic stuff and get that wrong how are any of us meant to take the rest of what you say seriously. How can you comment on the more complex things of how this will effect people when you don't know the basics?
This isn't even that much a issue, its just you posting on these forums and most the wormhole people will know its rubbish. what's much more of a issue is when you get so called wormhole "experts" on certain podcasts talking about this stuff and getting the basics wrong, like saying "ooh 2 dreads and a orca to roll a c5 c5" or "yeah with the change you'll be spawning 20 to 50km" thats much more of a issue cos there listeners just assume there correct when in fact its total ballshit. That leads to people making decisions based on stuff that's just not correct. Your much better posting from a educated position. Its one of the reasons i get so pissed off when people mention isk in wh space when they are literally pulling numbers out there arse with no facts or anything to back it up. Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
corbexx
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Posted - 2014.08.26 02:05:00 -
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OMEGA REDUX wrote:corbexx wrote:
Yes logging off and doing nothing is totally valid and denying me kills is fine but its defeating the point of this change, if people arent prepared to roll the wh cos its to risky why even change it. Having it so you can jump back attually gives smaller groups a chance to fight bigger groups by slamming the door in there face and limiting numbers to a level they can fight.
I didnt mention anything about unsubbing at all. I said people are leaving wh space several corps have already done this. one is also looking at leaving or merging.
but if you could please let me know the stuff about what wh's you have lived in and for how long.
people logging off is an EXTREME problem because if they arent having fun playing eve then they will stop playing it and eve is the worse for it.
Aye this is a cocern I actually had skype convo about this the other day. It was a smallish group who live in a c5. At the moment they have the chance to slam the wh shut in some ones face and take a fight on there terms or atleast close it so they can carry on doing what ever. But now if a big group connects they basically cant do anything till the bigger group closes it moves out of there tz. meaning they could well have a whole evening where they just have no chance to do anything. Its worth remembering people are normally more than happy to try something if they have a semi reasonable chance of it working but when you have literally no chance people wont attempt it.
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corbexx
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Posted - 2014.08.26 10:48:00 -
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Terrorfrodo wrote:This and the other changes look great to me and have in fact made me re-subcribe, even though I may not actually have much time to play for RL reasons.
This change in particular seems to be the change to kick farmers out of w-space. Closing of holes just to be safe is more work now and involves a little risk. Lazy farmers will either give up and leave or just leave their holes open and hope for the best.
Ragerolling shouldn't be too badly affected because the groups doing it can easily field caps + webbers to make a short warp and then warp back to the hole GÇô of course also adding some risk in the process which is good. And larger standoffs at holes should be less boring now, things might actually happen.
You do realise farmers will attually be safer with this change? longer to rage roll means less chance of finding them and ganking them. If its not safe for them to close there wh they just wont do it. that happens now already, has been happening for well over a year if they haven't left now I doubt this will change it.
as for the short warp and bounce back. Have you anynumbers on exact time for this, video showing just how long it takes woudl be really handy. as I still think just slow boating back will be quicker and certainly safer.
stand offs on the wormhole will be exactly the same or infact even more boring as bigger groups like the one i am in are alot less likely to go bhaals deep in to another wh. whats much more likely to happen is there will be a stand off and nothing happens for 5 miins then diplos will chat and the wh will be rolled safely so both sides can get on with doing **** thats more fun that staring at each other through a wh Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
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Posted - 2014.08.26 10:52:00 -
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Terrorfrodo wrote:This change in particular seems to be the change to kick farmers out of w-space.
Terrorfrodo wrote: I think this change is intentionally made to effectively kill rage-rolling.
Hell you know what you might be right here with a few more "I think" you could cover most things and then just say "I think this is designed to kill off wormholes" Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
corbexx
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Posted - 2014.08.27 12:18:00 -
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Oh goody discussion time again.
Adrie Atticus wrote: Personally this just reeks of personal gain and comfort instead of looking at the full picture. For first part, do you think that this was the intended mechanic just like WH's being fully habitable wasn't? It takes a big more effort to get a thing done and poses some more risk, isn't this what you want from wormholes or are you too stuck on "Safe grinding and random gudfites with other T3's" to take any change in?
Ok so the big picture I'd like you to look at this from different angles of w-space can you please look at it from the pov of. a big c5 or c6 group. a small 5 to 20 man low class wh who only have 2 to 4 people online and a farming group in c5 or c6 space. Then also take in to account how the frig wh's (which are literally everywhere) will affect these groups. Now there is risk and there is RISK for instance noho bhaals deep fleet is probably 40 to 50b that we put on the line and we often do if we think there a semi reasonable chance to win. thats acceptable risk. having caps spread all over the place move it from acceptable risk to unacceptable meaning we're alot less likely to risk it.
Adrie Atticus wrote:Second part is just risk aversion, don't use caps if you feel like they're at increased risk of getting popped. They're not really meant as the first response ships but geared more towards a tactical tool originally and are still used as such. Before the change a capital was immune to anything outside of "let's trade a capital for a capital by cross-jumping the hole" and that was never a good idea due to gaining nothing. Now you actually have to take care of your assets instead of just being blissfully safe with them unless your tower is getting touched in the wrong place.
I've already said about risk aversion. we arent flying hawks and hyena's here. could you explain why caps should not be a first response ship for us wormhole people maybe tell us exactly what should be a first response ship? and why? The trade a cap for a cap is also a very viable tactic if say... you trap there carrier and t3 in your wh where you have couple dreads and stop them bringing there dreads in you trade a potentially cheap are empty cap hull for a t3 fleet and expensive triage. if you go bhaals deep there is no blissfully safe its win big lose big (but great fun).
Adrie Atticus wrote: For third point, instead of using the normal argument of "you figure out why nullsec shouldn't have this and if you don't get it, you're stupid" I'll explain: bombers. They're one of the most versatile tool in null to cripple or take out an enemy fleet. If someone lights a cyno with 14 bombers in local and does not protect it with a bubble, they'll get bombed due to landing within the 5km radius of the cyno. If the force jumping in has BC's or BS's, they are big enough to get hit hard and will not be fast enough to warp away or initiate MJD due to warp tunnels. They also don't get a gate cloak to protect themselves from this unlike when using a gate. Getting those ships in a ball with a radius of up to 38km (max distance on WH?) would eliminate a big part of defending against a big fleet and let attackers to come to the system more easily.
wtf has this to do with wh's???
Adrie Atticus wrote: What about caps jumping in and getting spread to a large area? They'll land in a big nice ball and have at least one other cap in range to refit. If they're for triage, everyone is still in the range. What it would change is using cynos to travel as you wouldn't be able to light a cyno on more than 2 types of stations and dock immediately, this would be a good change.
Not sure wtf this has to do with wh mass and distance but hell rest of your stuff has been bs so what ever.
You seem to be focusingon caps which yes will be a issue here for wh space but what about the smaller groups in lower class wh's do you feel it will be safe for them? have you considered how rolling will be for them with these changes and the frig wh's?
Time to plagiarise again.
Here's the hard truth: If you don't live in W-space, and you've never lived there, your opinion about how W-space should or shouldn't be is worse than irrelevant: you are the virgin offering advice on how to get laid. Like a virgin, you probably genuinely believe that your opinion matters and that the mere fact that you have no personal experience on the topic shouldn't invalidate your opinion, while everyone else listening to you is quietly shaking their head. Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
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Posted - 2014.08.27 20:17:00 -
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Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Valenthe de Celine wrote: Instances where this wasn't done always resulted in significant losses and overwhelming odds that could not be overcome. The reason for this? If we logged in after other entities already scanned and mapped all the holes, our intel was outdated and our efforts to move were simply and easily observed by cloaked scouts. At that point our fleet would be at the mercy of the enemy entities, and slaughters were occur. Closing those holes either forces the fight on our terms, forces the scouts to flee, or results in a faster, less coordinated fight for our enemies. It also prevents enemy backup from arriving from unexpected directions. Again, the times we did not adhere to this, things went very badly.
As to the new changes, last night went something like this: "Did they just change something? We have 7 wormholes open." After scouting them, the scouts report activity in 2 of them that endangers anyone trying to roll under the new mechanics. Some members reship, follow a chain into lowsec, and go looking for small gang PVP. Rest of the corp (PVE and industry guys) logged out, bored, to go play something else.
I would like to second all of this. The idea that corps are going to risk multiple billions of isk trying to run any sort of PVE with a grand central station of wormholes open is ludicrous. The whole "risk vs. reward" thing is so heavily favored in the risk department it's not even an argument. Here is how our corp events went last night. Our scouts reported 5 wormholes 1 to a completely empty c5 one was our static ,1 to nullsec to (goonspace), one to lowsec and one to a c3. Since the c5 was completely empty of towers and scouted we decided to give the try mechanics first on that one. the orca took 20 seconds to get back and jump through. the dread took 50 seconds...... a minute sitting uncloaked in enemy space with a dread is a lifetime. After the streassful hole closer that took 3 times as long as normal we decided we had no way of rolling either the low sec or the null sec. A dread jump would be a guarantee death in either of those systems as it would only take a bat phone and a cyno to catch. Short of 30 battleship jumps which nobody was about to do we literally have no way of closing the WH now.. This all coupled with the increase in WH's in general so now we have wh's respawning at almost the rate we could even close them. End result: everyone cursed CCP starting thinking of ways to get out of the WH and logged off. I fail to see how any of these changes generated any content considering you just killed an entire game play mechanic for the majority of the people who utilize it.
this is it people are happy with a acceptable about of risk but this is way past what people find acceptable so just wont risk it at all. Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
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Posted - 2014.08.27 22:25:00 -
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Zappity wrote:Arya Regnar wrote:corbexx wrote:Here's the hard truth: If you don't live in W-space, and you've never lived there, your opinion about how W-space should or shouldn't be is worse than irrelevant: you are the virgin offering advice on how to get laid. Like a virgin, you probably genuinely believe that your opinion matters and that the mere fact that you have no personal experience on the topic shouldn't invalidate your opinion, while everyone else listening to you is quietly shaking their head. Word. It is not "word". It is utterly ridiculous reasoning. Limiting feedback to people who think the current model is worth investing in limits you to the status quo. You should all be ashamed for falling for it. Have you considered that one of the goals of change could be to get people who *don't* buy into the current model interested in the space?
you obviously don't understand irony . It was a quote from mittens used on some one from the cfc. Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
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Posted - 2014.08.28 04:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zappity wrote:corbexx wrote:Zappity wrote:Arya Regnar wrote:corbexx wrote:Here's the hard truth: If you don't live in W-space, and you've never lived there, your opinion about how W-space should or shouldn't be is worse than irrelevant: you are the virgin offering advice on how to get laid. Like a virgin, you probably genuinely believe that your opinion matters and that the mere fact that you have no personal experience on the topic shouldn't invalidate your opinion, while everyone else listening to you is quietly shaking their head. Word. It is not "word". It is utterly ridiculous reasoning. Limiting feedback to people who think the current model is worth investing in limits you to the status quo. You should all be ashamed for falling for it. Have you considered that one of the goals of change could be to get people who *don't* buy into the current model interested in the space? you obviously don't understand irony . It was a quote from mittens used on some one from the cfc. Are you saying that you do, or do not, agree with the concept that only people who live in a space should comment on it's future? I don't understand.
I'll happily listen to anyone, but at the same time i'll also call people out if they're talking **** about stuff they have no idea about, which sadly in this thread is often nullsec people.
Now if you want to let me know what you think of these changes i'm more than happy to discus it. Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
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Posted - 2014.08.31 12:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Faren Shalni wrote: And btw we WH's have already adapted to this change we still keep going because we can field the people needed to combat this change (I feel sorry to the smaller guys who cant and therfore have left). but that doesn't mean we like having a piece of **** shoved down our throats and then being expected to say can I have another one
CCP needs to stop changing what works and Fix what's broken.
This is pretty much it bigger groups are fine. This isnt really affecting noho at all expect to make rage rolling mroe time consuming. Small groups like my alt group in a c4 are ****** (and probably moving out)
We attually caught our first cap the other day doing the warp to bounce, while we got a bubble on the wormhole. Worst this wasn't even a wh in our main system it was some one trying to close a wh in our static. I'll have to go chat to them see if they will continue to do that or not after being caught.
I'm hoping to get numbers soon and then see what they seem to show but as has already been said it might not be enough time yet to see changes. Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
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Posted - 2014.09.01 17:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
holy **** bet this was to troll me for waiting 30 mins to publish my blog just as it reached 100 pages.
Not like people are upset and annoyed anyway Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
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Posted - 2014.09.03 18:35:00 -
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Dalron wrote:Here's my take on what these changes will happen with these changes.
Bigger corps will continue pretty much as they are now for PvE, some will get caught rolling wormholes slightly more than others but overall pvp probabily wont actually change that much.
Smaller corps will start losing out more and more. Longer times to roll wormholes, more risk rolling wormholes, and more incoming wormholes (not just the frig wormholes but the hundreds of new C4 wormholes that are appearing everywhere). They will start losing ISK income and getting fed up. They will start to move out, slowly at first but it will continue.
Bigger wormhole corps will look for pvp but the targets will start to become scarcer as corps move out. So they will start to target the smaller corps they would previously have overlooked just so they can get kills. Some of these corps will start to leave too.
Bigger PVP oriented WH corps will leave once they have nothing to do.
We might get a cyclic occupation as prices rise people move back in to take advantage and then the cycle repeats, or a simple lower occupational level might stabilize.
This is pretty much spot on to what i expect to happen.
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Posted - 2015.02.11 06:25:26 -
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Lady Rift wrote:KC Kamikaze wrote:That is completely useless information. Based on number of poses? Come on. If I had a dollar for every wormhole with or near full moon coverage with small towers that I've seen I'd probably have about 50 dollars ... and if I owned those towers about 900 towers. The number of towers is a completely useless metric in determining an increase or decrease in the number of wspace residents. I would love to see 7 day averages for the number of people logged off inside each class of wormhole pre and post each expansion. That would be a metric with value. Even that metric wouldn't be fully useful. I know I have 4 accounts worth of toons loged in a c2 cause its my PI wh. And ya do those tower stats include offline towers? I know there are a couple in a C2 that I cant be bothered to remove (corp has been inactive for 2+ years) . Sites run or holes closed prematurely (aka not end of natural life) would be a little more useful I think.
The next one is on NPC kills. But its having to be checked by a whole load of people.
Players logged off is something they can do how ever a break down in to 7 day cycles per class would more than likely have to be sorted through analytics.
The players logged along with pos numbers are a couple (very basic) ways of looking at growth in w space.
I'll have to ask about holes closed prematurely and see if I can get it broken down by class.
The other thing to remember is I don't always get what I ask for and even askingfor some of this stuff can take weeks (if not months).
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Posted - 2015.02.11 15:33:26 -
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Lady Rift wrote: I wasn't taking a shot at you and the fact you managed to get any data at all is nice. And really good to know that you are trying to get more.
I have more info the issue is I have to get it checked by a fair few people (couple in game design, CCP leeloo and then PR) for a couple reasons, firstly to make sure what i say is correct (CCP Fozzie was kind enough to not only check it but helped get me some more data to help clear some stuff up) and secondly to protect myself with the nda, once they ok it i'm totally fine to tell everyone. the down side is it takes a while and I didnt want to type everything up and them say no. hence its in small parts. Just waiting on PR to give the final go ahead for the next one.
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Posted - 2015.02.11 22:00:46 -
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NPC kills info http://corbexx.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/wormhole-report-2-npc-kills.html
yeah sucks I can't just post the graph. trust me would make my life way easier and sorry its probably hard to visualise and writing sucks.
tldr
NPC kill wise C1, C2, C4 and C5 doing really well C3 doing ok and C6 have dropped a bit. I don't have info on total data relic sites run in C1 to C3 but over all way more people are in space doing **** for others to come kill them.
Before people say all the NPC kill increase in C5 are farmers while some of the increase is from sleeper guardains (cap escalations) most is from other sleepers, so not just farmers.
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Posted - 2015.02.11 23:10:20 -
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Jack Miton wrote:Are those POS numbers online or all POSs? Cos there's a difference. I'm asking they haven't got back to me. as its analytic's i have to go through people I can't just message them on skype like everyone else.
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