As a C6 wormholler, and PvP FC, I say Nestor is still Trash, with a capital T. Not worth flying even it costed 100mil.

What is it supposed to do?

Logi PvP?
2 guardians are better then 2 nestors in ALL categories. Tankier, faster, better reps and range, less mass, less sig, more sensor strength, cheaper... Show me an idiot who will drop 2 nestors with max rep range of 20km over 2 guardians with 25% better reps and range of 70km.

DPS PvP with refit ability?
In Wormhole fights arent Tidi fests where huge fleets have all the time in the world to refit. Engagements happen in 2-5 minute spans. Refitting in fast-paced combat for smaller gangs is not feasible, nor desirable. Im not going to mess up my fleet by telling people to refit guns or tank in the middle of fast-flowing T3 combat. Every other situation is covered by mobile depots or correct fits prior to departure.

Wormhole PvE?
In a C6-C5 marauders and T3s outperform Nestor in all categories - dps and hacking/scanning.
In a C4 - and below, regular Dominixes and battlecruisers are sufficient, and better.

Roams from WH to null?
Battleships on roams? Seriously? Good luck with that, I will stick to HACs and Logi, thanks.

Solo Daytriping into C3-C4 WH space from K-space?
Repping your sentry drones with small reppers and ninjaing loot? Trying to rep geckos and failing cause small rep range is like 10km? Horrible capacitor comes in for the win! No spider cap chain - no repping on this ship, plain and simple. So this is out too.

The ONLY use for this ship is a brick-tanked instant mobile depot/cyno/bait for dread/super-capital fleets in null-sec.

Which is ABSOLUTELY USELESS in wormholes, and everywhere else.

Sorry Fozzie, much as you like this ship, its garbage. Absolute, horrible, garbage. Visually, and role-wise.

Stop trying to fix what cant be fixed; take it out of the game, redesign the whole thing from scratch - start with graphics redesign, then pick a combat or PvE role, and flesh it out.

Yeah, for your dreadnaught / super-capital fleets maybe.

For everyone else, its useless because guardian/dominix does it better.

Serious question: Do you really see yourself using one of these if the price goes down to 1 bil (before fittings)? Why wouldn't you just use an archon?

Also keep in mind, it won't go below a billion anytime soon. Even going down to a bil is rather extreme as both the astero and the stratios would need to fall in price by about 25-30% as well to make billion isk nestors a viable option for LP/nexus chip conversion.

I'm sure your frig pilots will enjoy waiting an extra minute on each gate, every gate for your nestor to catch up.

With 20km rep range? And alignment time of 10s? And warp speed of 2.5 AU? Thats funny, especially in frigate roams. I will always take guardians/scimis over this.

Two things:
1) I can't remember the last time I saw a vindi in null. I'm sure it happens somewhere, but I haven't seen it. Doesn't exactly bode well for the nestor, does it?

2) A vindi is currently 854 mil in jita. In order for a nestor to go down to 854 mil from 1.4 bil, you would need to depress SoE LP/Isk conversion and Nexus Chip/isk conversion by 39%. This would imply a Stratios goes from 289 mil --> 176 mil and an Astero goes from 78 mil --> 47 mil.

While I would love to see a stratios that is cheaper than an ishtar, it ain't gonna happen.

Care to make a wager?

Two months, if the nestor is down to 854 mil or less, I'll buy you one. If the Nestor is above 854 mil, you buy me one. Sound good?

OK, so, looking over community feedback, we have one or two die-hard supporters of the nestor, and everyone else disproves of the change, and the ship in general.

CCP, back to you

Correct, while freighter, jf and orca use capital components to be build, the orca has been battleship sized in rigs, EHP and powergrid since day one, and her massive amount of EHP (my top fit was 427k) are part of her features due to the large pool of structure. If you check orca's shield and armor are the ones of a BS.

I'm not saying to turn the nestor into an orca, i'm just saying to add a zero to that ship maintnance bay.

Lowered activation cost for 100MN Micro Warp Drives
Capacitor activation cost is cut in half for all 100MN Micro Warp Drives.

I appreciate that the Nestor is still getting changes, but I still won't fly mine in it's current state.

I actually think adding a ship maintenance bay makes the problem worse, not better. One of the main problems the Nestor has right now is that it really doesn't have a role, or the focus, to give it purpose. Ever since the stats were finalized players have asked the same question: 'Why?'

Adding a maintenance bay just takes the ship one step closer to a carrier, and at since the cost is the same most people would rather USE a carrier for the same function. I know the Nestor is supposed to be a wormhole vessel, but without a cloak it's really a sitting duck in there anyways. If a carrier is unavailable then logistics ships are cheaper and easier to replace.

I'd go as far as saying the maintenance bay is a step in the wrong direction. It really doesn't give the Nestor a purpose, it just makes it more like a carrier, for the same price point.

If you want to make the Nestor more useful, give the Nestor more of a wormhole focus. I know a covert ops cloak is out of the picture but for me the ideal change would be losing the probe strength and encryption bonuses, which don't work as well on a BS sized hull, in exchange for the Nestor to be invisible, or highly resistant, to probe scans. It wouldn't do anything when the enemy was on top of you, but it would be ALMOST as good as a cloak when trying to hide or setting up ambushes.

That may be the purpose, but I don't know many people that would dedicate that much ISK on a roam when they could take a logistics, and still outfit 3-4 other people for the same price as a single Nestor. The benefit just isn't worth it.

If the group DID have that much ISK to commit, most groups usually go with a hot drop carrier. It's the same price, and does the job better in most regards.

Maybe extra 0.5 au/s warp speed coudl be the buff needed to make it excel on that role...

Yet most people seems to not think its worth. Maybe the nestor just need a different metagame to shine. .. maybe after sov is completely changed upside down.. maybe.

A T2 hyperspace rig and a 15% warp speed implant still doesn't get a 2AU to 3AU. What do you think "not hard" qualifies as?

Yes you can. its called a cyno loki/proteus/absolution.

baltec, there hasnt been a single nestor-based roam in EVE since the ship came out. That tells you something.

He means you need to put 2bil of implants in your head to make the ship marginally useful in warp speed alone.

I think he defends Nestor too much, as quick glance doesnt show a single kill in a nestor on his profile.

baltec1, show us you actually used the nestor in a roam, and we will tip our hats to you. Otherwise, stop defending something you yourself dont use.

I run into vindicators with cynos fairly often; we use bhaalgorns almost every day; machariels are seen here and there on occasion - killed one on a roam a few months back.

it happens.

Not so with nestor.

Bonuses are still meaningless as they don't fit to a theme.
Meaning it has no clear role and will continue to be outplayed in almost every role.

Sigh...you keep telling everyone that, and not a single roam supported by a nestor ever happened. EVER. Nor will it, even if nestor costs 500mil.

I thought it was because he only flew megas and when cfc made a mega fleet he got the honour of having the concept named after him. Unless he has alts that fly other ships... his exeriance on everything else would be limited.

Though tbh when was the last time one saw a roaming battleship gang? Unless you're talking about titan bridge hot drops... but at that point just use triage carriers as they cost less.

Personally the nestor would gain utility if it could traverse threw a covert ops cyno as thats a thing carriers cant do.

Imo I would design the nestor around "assistance" and drop all damage based rolls. Give it the ability to fit a triage mod... that would give it great utility in areas one does not have a carrier to use. Such as low level wh space high sec and covert drops.

Stop trying to make the nestor a thing, it's never gonna happen in its current role design.

Don't understand why dev are so stubborn ..

put the covert ops cloak on the ship already , give the ship the jump drive for god sake and give the remote rep some serious bonus

Anyway you 'll see with the carppy tweaks no one will use this ships like these days

This thing needs to be killed with fire.
Go back to the drawing board and start from scratch.

And then several months later CCP will see that it's not as OP as the underpants market brigade claimed it would be in order to sell more underpants, and will give all that tank & DPS back, and we will have finally gotten over the outright fear of Cov Cloaks on a BS.

That's the rumour, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Time will tell. But if the Ishtar is any indication, it's going to be death of 1000 cutsGǪ
That is unless they give it to CCP Rise.

You're truly evil. You know that, right?

The T3 overheating bonus needs to be strengthened a bit. But yes, I would anticipate the popular subsystems to get a kick in the 'nads

I like this idea alot

Good idea of logistic BS.
Drop scanning/hacking bonuses and make this logi/drones BS with hangar. SoE mothership.



Never going to happen, nullifier would be useless. Also making T3 somewhere beetwen T1 and T2 wouldn't be wise (what T1,5?). Everybody wants to fly best ships in current class, T3 is best. If you nerf them so much why the hell anybody would want to fly this things? Because you can build your own ship with subsystems? Skill points loss? It should be best among cruisers but worse than BS. I'm really curious what they will do to T3, there will be oceans of tears, all those rage quits.
I'm tired of "we will nerf module but it will be better if you overheat it". Try it with painter on PvE BS...Everytime i see Fozzieman post i expect he will took some fun and gave nothing in return. Sometimes i have no idea what is the idea behind ship balancing.

Focused Warp Disruption Script and no point of bringing this subsystem. Am i right?



I was wrong. Riots not tears, bloody riots, and useless hulls. Whole swiss army knife idea. Sooo wrong, but it's not my circus, not my monkeys.

IMO, the Ship Maintenance Bay is fine.... it's just to be used to refit your own ship. However, it would be MUCH more useful with a 5k m3 Corp Hangar too, to actually keep modules in to BE refit.

Well that refitting bay is a welcome change. I would like to propose another change as well. Currently, this ship favors armor fleets almost exclusively.

Please make repair bonuses to shields and armor or introduce a new ship that mirrors the Nestor with shield repair bonuses.

What are/were the arguments against this type of change?

Hey guys, after some more feedback from you guys we have a couple more additions to the changes to announce.

We're going to increase the sensor strength of the Nestor a bit to better reflect its role as a high-tech support vessel.

We're also going to be decreasing the mass of the ship quite a bit, down to 20m kg. This will help keep the Nestor balanced for use in highsec wars as it will be easier to bump away from the safety of stations, and has the added benefit of making the Nestor the first battleship that can jump into C1 wormholes. We'll be decreasing the base speed and inertia modifier at the same time, but the end result is that the Nestor will be a bit more agile and will be a bit faster than before with its prop mod running.

The new changes are:

Mass: 20,000,000 (-36,000,000)
Inertia: 0.5 (+0.32)
Velocity: 65 (-27)
Magnetometric Sensor Strength: 30 (+6)

Just to illustrate my earlier concerns about prop mod align time, here's a table showing the align times and max. velocities of various [Hyperion] Nestor fits with and without skills. Align time for a double-plated, 100MN MWD Nestor will be somewhere in the 35.38 - 53.72 second range. Replace those plates with nanos and you get down to a low of 23.79s. Obviously, this impacts not only time to warp (since that's easily solved by turning off the MWD, and doesn't factor in terribly much on jump-in), but also maneuverability in combat. Note that even with these changes (and assuming no prop mod), the Nestor's agility is only middle-of-the-road for pirate battleships; the Vindicator, Machariel, and Barghest all align more quickly.

Basically, I'm worried that you get a ship that either tops out slower than an Archon, or turns slower than an Archon.

If your Megathron should align slower than a Tengu "on paper," but actually aligns faster "in practice," your paper is probably wrong. The tables aren't misleading. It's just math. If you're misled, don't blame the tables.

In any case, we're not talking a margin of error of a fraction of a second, or even a few seconds. We're talking about a Nestor that takes 82.9% longer to align than a Rattlesnake if both are under MWDGÇöor "merely" 32.9% longer, if you give the Nestor the advantage of double nanos. Yes, obviously actual performance is affected by pilot skill and reaction time. But a given pilot will have a much different experience trying to maneuver a microwarping Nestor than they will with any other battleship, and another pilot trying to outmaneuver the Nestor will have a much larger margin of error in their own reaction time because of the Nestor's slow handling.