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Kali Suggestion no. 137: Pardons.

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Infinity Ziona The First Noble Truth	Posted - 2006.07.18 03:32:00 - [31] Originally by: nahtoh Originally by: xeom Edited by: xeom on 18/07/2006 02:21:14 Wow thats a really good rebutal...No wait I was reading one of my posts.You seem stuck on this idea that punishing the player is anything smart to do.First of,me blowing you up is part of the game.CCP love's that part hell read some of ovuers blogs.Here's the problem they can't hurt my gameplay because i won't be getting any.Plain simple nothing for me a whole Expansion pack zoomed passed like nothing. Im all for penalising me.Hell you can attack and pod me at any given time.But to tell me,O sorry you can't play that part of the game.Is just plain silly. Cool i poped some players so mabye i get less rewards or something.Mabye any of the other factions can attack me at any time whatever it my be!But to not give me gameplay at all is unbalanced.And i highly doubt there will be low-sec empire agents sence it seems to be PVP oriented.Also they are fighting for empire land. Overall people think we are not a real part of the game.And need to be punished.This is not true,sure penalise my CHARACTER,but not me the paying customer. Hell use a trained up ALT to take part in it, thats not punishing the player. It may stop one of the players characters from taking part. ... You wanted to be a in game criminal? fine knock yourself out, but don't expect the lawgivers to give you a free access pass into highsec. And here we have the very quintessential stupidity. CPP punishes the pirate who uses his main. Meanwhile Mr. Carebear Roid Hugger who hangs out in high sec and Mr. Carebear Herd Lover who hangs out in 0.0 both have 'Piwate Alts' that they use without any consequence to gank whoever they like. After all they can log off anytime and go play High Sec Roid Hugging or 0.0 Herd Burgling in perfect safety. Yeah thats the solution. If your a complete idiot it is.
Allaina Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.18 03:34:00 - [32] Originally by: xeom You're right nobody is forced to grind,and i never plan to.The problem is not going into high-sec for easy kills. I want a Caldari Navy Raven but I don't want to have to grind Caldari Navy Missions. Quote: I wan't to be able to do the new kali warfare(PVP).And fight for a faction! Unless i can sign up for a pirate faction or something ,gameplay is simply not accessable to me. I want to fight with this char, but this char is a hauler/scientist. PvP gameplay is simply not accessable to this char. Did CCP cut off this game content or did I? Did CCP cut off your factional warfare content or did you? Quote: Again why a alt? See above, thats why an alt. Xeom can be your pirate char and you can make a factional alt. Do want xeom to be able to build Tech 2 ships? Did CCP cut you off from that game play too? Quote: You guys just keep coming up with the same thing. "STOP CRYING YOU KILLED PEOPLE LIVE WITH IT YOU DONT GET THE NEW GAMEPLAY!" Again why? Pretty much because every other person has to live with their ingame actions on their characters yet you want to be exempt. Again, did CCP cut off from gameplay or did you?
xeom Obsidian Sins	Posted - 2006.07.18 03:44:00 - [33] Acctualy you can go ahead and just buy the cald navy raven,but i fail to see the point of that line.As thats not cutting you off from gameplay. TBH i hate alts and thats why i don't plan to get one.I wan't to play as xeom. Hmm what?you're science building char can't PVP? Well quick fix matey,train any frigate skill to lvl 4 and small guns too.And boom you can pvp!(i only say lvl 4 because they are really to crapy to fly before). alt alt alt,why why why?Everyone has to live with there in-game actions? Please show me how johny 0.0 or bob roid hugger have to worry about anything.As long as they avoid becoming me their fine.They may have to deal with ****ing of other corps and such but not with a npc god faction. CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? \| Join[..SIN]
Carch	Posted - 2006.07.18 03:46:00 - [34] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: nahtoh Originally by: xeom Edited by: xeom on 18/07/2006 02:21:14 Wow thats a really good rebutal...No wait I was reading one of my posts.You seem stuck on this idea that punishing the player is anything smart to do.First of,me blowing you up is part of the game.CCP love's that part hell read some of ovuers blogs.Here's the problem they can't hurt my gameplay because i won't be getting any.Plain simple nothing for me a whole Expansion pack zoomed passed like nothing. Im all for penalising me.Hell you can attack and pod me at any given time.But to tell me,O sorry you can't play that part of the game.Is just plain silly. Cool i poped some players so mabye i get less rewards or something.Mabye any of the other factions can attack me at any time whatever it my be!But to not give me gameplay at all is unbalanced.And i highly doubt there will be low-sec empire agents sence it seems to be PVP oriented.Also they are fighting for empire land. Overall people think we are not a real part of the game.And need to be punished.This is not true,sure penalise my CHARACTER,but not me the paying customer. Hell use a trained up ALT to take part in it, thats not punishing the player. It may stop one of the players characters from taking part. ... You wanted to be a in game criminal? fine knock yourself out, but don't expect the lawgivers to give you a free access pass into highsec. And here we have the very quintessential stupidity. CPP punishes the pirate who uses his main. Meanwhile Mr. Carebear Roid Hugger who hangs out in high sec and Mr. Carebear Herd Lover who hangs out in 0.0 both have 'Piwate Alts' that they use without any consequence to gank whoever they like. After all they can log off anytime and go play High Sec Roid Hugging or 0.0 Herd Burgling in perfect safety. Yeah thats the solution. If your a complete idiot it is. hey im all for getting rid of alts, instas, chokepoints, but this is what ccp allows and is what we all have to deal with
Infinity Ziona The First Noble Truth	Posted - 2006.07.18 04:04:00 - [35] Originally by: Allaina Originally by: xeom You're right nobody is forced to grind,and i never plan to.The problem is not going into high-sec for easy kills. I want a Caldari Navy Raven but I don't want to have to grind Caldari Navy Missions. Quote: I wan't to be able to do the new kali warfare(PVP).And fight for a faction! Unless i can sign up for a pirate faction or something ,gameplay is simply not accessable to me. I want to fight with this char, but this char is a hauler/scientist. PvP gameplay is simply not accessable to this char. Did CCP cut off this game content or did I? Did CCP cut off your factional warfare content or did you? Quote: Again why a alt? See above, thats why an alt. Xeom can be your pirate char and you can make a factional alt. Do want xeom to be able to build Tech 2 ships? Did CCP cut you off from that game play too? Quote: You guys just keep coming up with the same thing. "STOP CRYING YOU KILLED PEOPLE LIVE WITH IT YOU DONT GET THE NEW GAMEPLAY!" Again why? Pretty much because every other person has to live with their ingame actions on their characters yet you want to be exempt. Again, did CCP cut off from gameplay or did you? Having to use alts to experience EvE is retarded. Many think its fine to meta-game by using alt scouts, and alt marketers, and alt scientists, alt forum *****s and alt researchers. I disagree. You tell this guy to 'live with the consequences' but then you suggest he 'use an alt' to bypass them? This meta-gaming is unnecessary. If the guy is playing by the rules and paying CCP as much money as you and I then he deserves as a customer to experience the full content. Low sec Pirates are a prime example of how CCP shat on part of its playerbase. As are people who dont like to sit in alliances like herd animals. Your alt solution is not a solution at all, its most probably the cause of the problem in the first place - the use of alts to gank and camp without consequence causing CCP to nerf the game and geniune pirates in the process.
xeom Obsidian Sins	Posted - 2006.07.18 04:04:00 - [36] I wana state again the current system is FINE!!! Theres nothing in high-sec right now that is not offered in low-sec.Well at least anything CCP controls(not like the player driven crappy market in low-sec). The problem comes with the factional warfare.You make it unbalanced,and simply giving everyone else more gameplay options. CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? \| Join[..SIN]
Lorth Synchro.	Posted - 2006.07.18 04:13:00 - [37] Did any one read my post on the last page? You all seem to be ignoring it. ------------- Recruit me
xeom Obsidian Sins	Posted - 2006.07.18 04:28:00 - [38] Yea lorth i agree a new way to raise the sec status should happen.But also a way to mabye not have to raise it and still fight for the faction of my choosing. The question is how?Personaly i think the upcoming changes would work fine with removing concord.And giving the navys more power.So i could be -9 to all races except minmatar and be fine in there space. We can't simply make it bribing concord or something.Because then the richest get of easy.while most of us real poor pirate's(well not that poor 0.o) non-alts,struggle. CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? \| Join[..SIN]
Lorth Synchro.	Posted - 2006.07.18 04:34:00 - [39] TBH in the short time that I've been thinking of it, I can't think of an unbiased fair way to raise sec status. Maybe someone smarter then me can. But what will forever bother me is the endless swarm of people who wish to punish the player, and not the charactor, for actions inside the game. No, someone should not be forced into doing an activity that they find dull, because of activitys that are perfectly within the rules of the game. Further, since the activity, while it punishes the player, at the same time it benifits the charactor. Which in and of it self it just tottaly out of wack. What kind of in game punishment, is it, if the only one feeling the strain is the out of game, guy behind the keyboard? ------------- Recruit me
Carch	Posted - 2006.07.18 04:42:00 - [40] Edited by: Carch on 18/07/2006 04:44:36 Originally by: Lorth Did any one read my post on the last page? You all seem to be ignoring it. not ignoring you lorth, i just dont know that much about factional warfare yet. seems your saying its a "catch 22" ie you want factional warfare but your gonna have to go to high sec space to do it, but as soon as you do youll be shot by concord. my question would be is factional warfare confind to high sec space or will it also be in low sec space, is it caused by the way the highway is set up? whats causing the problem? how could you get what you want without going to high sec space? low sec space highway loop? agents? what? im really gonna have to go read about factional warfare but i dont think ya should be allowed back into high sec space with your security status as it is. edit: sorry there lorth, thought it was xenon that posted that, im tired
Montague Zooma Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.18 05:14:00 - [41] Originally by: xeom Except this isn't real-life and its just a game for fun. That's what all the despised "carebears" say, though. "Boohoo, all the good minerals are in low sec or 0.0, why can't I mine there just as safely as I do in high sec? It's just a game, I'm trying to have fun." Just because it's a game doesn't mean it shouldn't have rules. Rules define a game. Piracy has negative consequences...it's how the game is designed. Low sec piracy has negative consequences that are made quite plain. It's not like you pod one player in Empire and are forever damned. You see your sec status drop and know if you continue to initiate aggression in low sec that you will lose access to higher security systems. Yet you still continue to hit yourself in the head with that hammer. Quote: Tell ya what show me 1 other class of player that has such limits inposed on him as we do and ill be quite. No body else has gameplay cut from them cut dry and simple. I know aggressive anti-pirates who suffer the same limitations that you do. They knew the job was dangerous when they took it. Mission runners also find things closed off to them because of the faction hits they take. Quote: Also 0.0 combat is nothing like low-sec piracy k? That's true. You can generally find easier targets in low sec than in 0.0. The sec hits and gate guns are there to offset that.
rodgerd Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 05:18:00 - [42] Originally by: Montague Zooma Originally by: xeom Except this isn't real-life and its just a game for fun. That's what all the despised "carebears" say, though. "Boohoo, all the good minerals are in low sec or 0.0, why can't I mine there just as safely as I do in high sec? It's just a game, I'm trying to have fun." [...] Low sec piracy has negative consequences that are made quite plain. [...] Yet you still continue to hit yourself in the head with that hammer. /signed What a pack of whiners.
Pax Uranus Protoculture Club	Posted - 2006.07.18 06:24:00 - [43] Originally by: xeom Also 0.0 combat is nothing like low-sec piracy k? OMG! Must be hacks or exploits. People in 0.0 are probably much more likely to fight back? (Isn't it sort of funny when the average lowsec pirate's sack seems to shrivel up when they encounter actual PvPers instead of the random oblivious soft-target player wandering through lowsec?) Anywaays, as much as I can agree with Lorth pointing out that there's something intuitively off about the system, it still does adheres to a basic tenet of player choice. Every player for the most part, based on what paths they choose to walk down in Eve, are constrained in one form or other by any of a number of systems or situations - PC and/or NPC. This is the same basic rant that we're seeing elsewhere for other topics, just worded differently and aimed at a new topic. Aka: What? There are consequences to my actions? WTF? The game's broken!
Infinity Ziona The First Noble Truth	Posted - 2006.07.18 06:35:00 - [44] Originally by: Pax Uranus This is the same basic rant that we're seeing elsewhere for other topics, just worded differently and aimed at a new topic. Aka: What? There are consequences to my actions? WTF? The game's broken! The same could be said of the anti-pirates here. Somebody killed me. Punish him CCP because I afraid to or I cant. Player is > then NPC and should be the ones to punish the pirate. Let him into high sec so he can be punished.
Pax Uranus Protoculture Club	Posted - 2006.07.18 07:10:00 - [45] That's an interesting part of my post to quote, since it doesn't roll with your attempted point at all (depending on timezones, it could be really late or early so it's understandable if the logic centers aren't working). The point of what you quoted of mine goes something like this, and it's made generic for easier comprehension and to show how it can and does apply to a whole lot of things in Eve: 1) Action X leads to Result Y 2a) If you don't want Result Y, don't do Action X 2b) If you don't particularly care about Result Y, go ahead and do Action X It's a really basic concept to grasp, and it applies to just about everything in- and out-of-game. Strangely enough, it still seems to elude people.
Ky'var Traven	Posted - 2006.07.18 07:46:00 - [46] I love these posts, pirate whining because they can't get into high sec and gank whom ever they please with impunity. All I see here is someone trying to justify why they should not be punished for their in game actions.
Infinity Ziona The First Noble Truth	Posted - 2006.07.18 08:22:00 - [47] Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 18/07/2006 08:23:03 Originally by: Pax Uranus That's an interesting part of my post to quote, since it doesn't roll with your attempted point at all (depending on timezones, it could be really late or early so it's understandable if the logic centers aren't working). The point of what you quoted of mine goes something like this, and it's made generic for easier comprehension and to show how it can and does apply to a whole lot of things in Eve: 1) Action X leads to Result Y 2a) If you don't want Result Y, don't do Action X 2b) If you don't particularly care about Result Y, go ahead and do Action X It's a really basic concept to grasp, and it applies to just about everything in- and out-of-game. Strangely enough, it still seems to elude people. I agree. 1) Action X leads to Result Y - Going into low sec may get you killed. 2a) If you dont want Result Y, Dont do Action X 2b) If you dont particularly care about result Y, go ahead and do Action X Added 3) If you do Action X and Result Y happens, dont expect CCP and NPCs to help by ruining someone elses gameplay. It was your choice. Yep. Quite simple really.
Nicholai Pestot Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 08:36:00 - [48] A single weekend of ratting in syndicate in my trusty taranis of NPC farmage netted me a 2.3 gain in sec status (not to mention 50 million in npc bounty and another 150 million in faction loot). I honestly cant see the problem. If you want an 'RP' method of hi-sec access, the ability to apply to be a privateer could be introduced. You would need to have a standing of greater than 5 with one of the Empires to apply for this, and would be allowed to enter their hi-sec space only.There would be an initial price for applying for this (50 million say) and a 15 million a week charge.You would still be an outlaw so would still be a viable target to all, and would still suffer the attentions of concord/gate turrets for attacking people. You would immediatly loose your rights as a privateer if you aggress anyone of greater than +1 standing with that empire, immediatly suffering a large finacial penaulty as your assets are frozen by your home empire...say another immediate loss of 50 million. Could be a prelude to Kali factional warfare, and would fit the current 'heating up' of the cold war quite well ________________ What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete
Avon Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 08:50:00 - [49] They should bring back Concord agents to help with sec, but with a twist. The 'pirate' goes to the Concord agent to fix his sec. The agent gives him a mission. This mission involves an iteron mk V, a hold full of zydrine, a huge amount of collateral, and a trip across empire space with Concord immunity. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.18 09:05:00 - [50] lol, whining pirates.
Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 09:10:00 - [51] Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 18/07/2006 09:11:01 Originally by: Haks'he Lirky You used to be able to bribe concord agents and boost your sec rating, but pirates just got in pods and flown to the agents and paid to have there sec increased again. Simple solution: Make agents not talk to someone with a status lower than x. Eve is prolly the only game where one can tank his way through an Empire that is p***ed off beyond belief, evade the geese and arrows and finally arrive at a station to have a friendly chat with some NPC who offers them a cup of tea and a mission. But thats just my understanding, I never had that bad sec status but I understand that even with -10 you can still talk to a faction's agents and that officially blows. ----------------------------------------------------- "At least freelancer keeps the physics realistic." -- SINKFIST
Blighter	Posted - 2006.07.18 10:18:00 - [52] I always though there should be a reperations system in place, where if you kill someone, you can pay them isk to have the sec hit wiped. How much isk, though, is up to the victim. He gets his isk, and repreives you, and you lose the sec hit.
nahtoh Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 10:47:00 - [53] Originally by: Lorth TBH in the short time that I've been thinking of it, I can't think of an unbiased fair way to raise sec status. Maybe someone smarter then me can. But what will forever bother me is the endless swarm of people who wish to punish the player, and not the charactor, for actions inside the game. No, someone should not be forced into doing an activity that they find dull, because of activitys that are perfectly within the rules of the game. Further, since the activity, while it punishes the player, at the same time it benifits the charactor. Which in and of it self it just tottaly out of wack. What kind of in game punishment, is it, if the only one feeling the strain is the out of game, guy behind the keyboard? And how can you punish the character but not the player unless Alts are used? Persoanlly I only use one character so thats not my prefered way of dealing with it. But it is a way of dealing with it. Yes and while the pirating is allowed by the game mechanics it has blance points...ie do it in range of sentry guns you get shot, you lose sec rating... Sorry but not everything in eve is fixed by 15 mins of warping between Safe Spots... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
D'Mur Pilru	Posted - 2006.07.18 11:09:00 - [54] Originally by: xeom But the question is why do i have to work,NOT PLAY to raise it.further more why not create a system where i can only use the new content with restraints. Why do i have to stop my gameplay of choice to enjoy another part of eve?Who else has to do that? Someone give me a reason besides "uhhmmmmm because you killed pplz!" Actually, that's quite a good reason. You don't like to grind you say. Boohoo, sorry little you. I can't count the hours spend grinding and mining early in my Eve life, because some a-hole pirate decided it would be fun to shoot a frigate or cruiser. You shoot people, destroy all they have, set them back in the game, but if you then have to spend some time to achieve something, you want it handed to you. Very sound reasoning indeed. Kudos to you. Pirates in Eve...they're like bankrobbers complaining they can't open a savings account
Melkor Bloodaxe Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.18 11:48:00 - [55] The point is: Why should a pirate have to grind his way to a higher sec-stat? Example (not true atm): I'm a pirate (this one is true though...), sec-stat=-10 my wallet contains 1Billion ISK. Why then is the only way to raise my sec-stat to grind NPC's??? Why can't I just pay to raise my sec-stat? Why can't I just buy a safetypass through high-sec? I hear carebears say: "But I can't go safely to 0.0 either, cos I will get shot..." Remember: You can ALWAYS go to 0.0, cos the only one who will kill you is a real-player pirate (pay attention and you survive). However, with -10 you will instantly lose your ship by CONCORD in high-sec space. --- Originally by: HippoKing Since when is justified killing more fun than random killing?
Brannor McThife Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 12:56:00 - [56] Originally by: D'Mur Pilru Pirates in Eve...they're like bankrobbers complaining they can't open a savings account QFT. My word. What a lot of whiners. You chose to become a criminal...live with it. The fact that you can actually redeem yourself AT ALL (grinding NPCs) is a blessing. I'd be willing to campaign that your sec status slowly improve towards -3.0. Not 0.0, as you need to do some work before being allowed back into 0.9/1.0 space, after all, you have a criminal record, and they (Concord) want to keep newbie pilots safe. This improving will be based on you "doing time" by NOT attacking/destroying any other positive standing pilots - call it a probation period. During this time, any aggressive (not defensive) action taken on your behalf in any space other than 0.0, will result in massive negative hits. If you want your sec rating back, you have to show that you MEAN IT. Otherwise, go cry on your fellow gankers' shoulders. -G Absolution: 150% damage of Zealot Astarte: 140% damage of Deimos Sleipnir: 140% damage of Vagabond Nighthawk: 90% damage of Cerberus
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.18 13:03:00 - [57] Originally by: Melkor Bloodaxe The point is: Why should a pirate have to grind his way to a higher sec-stat? Example (not true atm): I'm a pirate (this one is true though...), sec-stat=-10 my wallet contains 1Billion ISK. Why then is the only way to raise my sec-stat to grind NPC's??? Why can't I just pay to raise my sec-stat? Why can't I just buy a safetypass through high-sec? I hear carebears say: "But I can't go safely to 0.0 either, cos I will get shot..." Remember: You can ALWAYS go to 0.0, cos the only one who will kill you is a real-player pirate (pay attention and you survive). However, with -10 you will instantly lose your ship by CONCORD in high-sec space. Do you think the likes of Pablo Escobar could just have given the US government a billion dollars to buy off any criminal charges? You should be happy you actually have a way to redeem your character, CCP is even so nice as to make it a very profitable way. Grinding rats might be boring, but it makes you cash and it improves sec rating. CCP is too friendly!
Jimmycs83 The Exiles	Posted - 2006.07.18 13:43:00 - [58] yeah the system is ok atm ... apart from the fact that you can completely avoid any punishment by the use of an alt tbh just let pirates into high-sec where they can be shot at by everyone... then maybe some of the carebears might actually find a reason to do some real anti-pirate stuff which is the only way a pirate should really be getting punished. And as for high sec ganking .. well it happens anyway and imo is the fault of the noob who puts billions of isk into a T1 hauler and expects not to die ... someday they will learn
xeom Obsidian Sins	Posted - 2006.07.18 14:29:00 - [59] Ok,i want you guys to say it to yourselfs 10 times,its just a game.Then if you still don't get it go outside and keep repeating it till you do. Trust me i have no desire in high-sec,NON what so ever.The only thing i wan't is factional warfare.Everyone else gets to get but pirates?!?! wha? Again i can do anything else i wan't with out problems with enough teamwork and play.My problem is just because i decide to do something a certian way doesn't mean a whole expansion should be without access to me. "But but..what about outposts and motherships an.." NO LISTEN LISTEN,Anyone can go out and do those things and still continue on with their gameplay.I can't do factional warfare and still play the way i want to. Agian current system is fine.Problem is a whole expansion worth of stuff is gone.I mean if i can fight with the pirate factions instead or something great.I just wan't want to be treated LIKE THE REST OF THE PAYING COSTUMERS! and get the same ammount of gameplay everyone else gets. Please get over the caracal you lost back when you were a noob ok.Its a game and everyone deserves the same gameplay chances. CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? \| Join[..SIN]
nahtoh Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 14:32:00 - [60] Originally by: xeom Trust me i have no desire in high-sec,NON what so ever.The only thing i wan't is factional warfare.Everyone else gets to get but pirates?!?! Agian current system is fine.Problem is a whole expansion worth of stuff is gone.I mean if i can fight with the pirate factions instead or something great.I just wan't want to be treated LIKE THE REST OF THE PAYING COSTUMERS! and get the same ammount of gameplay everyone else gets. Please get over the caracal you lost back when you were a noob ok.Its a game and everyone deserves the same gameplay chances. Till you can prove you can't do factional warfare in lowsec your prefred area to operate in stop whinning... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self

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