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Wendrika Hydreiga
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 17:32:00 -
[91] - Quote
Mining is at an odd place in EVE. Even as a six month old player, mining is only of use to me as a safe-ish way to translate time invested into ISK at a steady rate.
I once thought of getting the necessary BPCs to make Tech 1 fitted Procurers and just move to the Outer Ring and see if I could survive there on my own means. I'd need to mine my own ore, reprocess it, and build replacement ships for my all but inevitable ship losses, and see how long I could last before running out of ships or BPCs. It would sure be an adventure. If not a short one if I even managed to reach the Outer Ring. Maybe with an interceptor...
Anyways, I often sigh on how an entire ore hold filled with high end ore is barely more profitable than if I just stayed in Highsec munching on Pyroxeres. This is terrible. I'm willing to make the risks necessary to step up my quality as a player, but my math keeps telling me to give up on this idea. High end ores are just too heavy to cover the costs of even the cheapest Procurer and surviving the four to five trips to Low sec to pay to break even for the ship.
Even materials like Zydrine and Megacyte, which should be all but unavailable to me for staying around in Highsec can easily be obtained by reprocessing the loot I get for doing Missions. Just by doing SOE Missions alone covered all my mineral needs to craft not only several Probes and Launchers with well researched blueprints and LP, but also a couple of Asteros and a Stratios, all straight from BPCs. That without needing to shoot a single rock. One has to wonder why is Mining even needed when we could just educate new players to sell/reprocess their loot wisely and back it up with industry training.
I'd say that Highsec ores should be heavier and take a lot more space than Lowsec and Nullsec ores, as opposed to the other way around. If the best ores took half as much space compared to Veldspar or Pyroxeres, this would make trips to Lowsec and Nullsec more enticing. And that's without adressing the glaring problems of how mindless and uninvested Mining can be. |

Hengle Teron
Mew Age Outpaws
26
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 20:23:00 -
[92] - Quote
Yes massive rouge asteroids... give them even less reason to alt tab into the game |

Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1452
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 21:34:00 -
[93] - Quote
Hengle Teron wrote:Yes massive rouge asteroids... give them even less reason to alt tab into the game
Yeah, it's like a reward for exploring and engaging with the game more. "Okay... now you can relax while you mine this roid."
Also it's cool. Epic Space Cat |

Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2491
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 09:32:00 -
[94] - Quote
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote: (stuff)
You reprocessed the modules pre-crius, didn't you?
The other side of that is your (and well, nearly everyone's) use of "ISK/hour" as the main driving factor for why you're doing something.
Yeah, ISK/Hour is "important" if you're trying to make ISK for a reason (PLEX, that new ship you want, etc.) ... but really, if you're maximizing your ISK/hr and not having fun while doing it -- you're playing eve wrong.
(note, this does not mean that you can or should actively shoot yourself in the foot and do "extra work" because "it's fun" and end up with negative ISK/hr. There's a balance in there somewhere). One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |

Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2612
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 09:47:00 -
[95] - Quote
Nothing beats ISK/hr of selling PLEX so I do that for money and anything else I do in game is just out of love, curiosity, boredom, sudden interest, lolz and :reasons:
Now, how about them bigger rocks? Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
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Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2491
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 10:11:00 -
[96] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Nothing beats ISK/hr of selling PLEX so I do that for money and anything else I do in game is just out of love, curiosity, boredom, sudden interest, lolz and :reasons:
Now, how about them bigger rocks?
well, this too ... but buying PLEX to sell for ISK just to buy PLEX for another 30d gametime is a bit daft now, isn't it  One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |

Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2612
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 10:18:00 -
[97] - Quote
Yes it is that's why I pay my subs with RL money :)
I find it really funny that every activity in game is validated first by ISK/hr. Like you are not allowed to have fun with something unless it brings you "proper" amount of ISK. God forbid you would spent even a second on anything just because you want to do it not because it's profitable. Invalid signature format |

Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope Gallente Federation
261
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 14:06:00 -
[98] - Quote
OP, I enjoyed your article and think if your proposed changes would introduce new gameplay elements and would increase group interactions. The idea of rogue mining sites actually sounds interesting. I would propose restricting them to Low sec only. This would inspire groups to get together mine, fight for and support the site until the asteroid is depleted.
My one concern, and understand this is coming from the context of someone who is a casual player, pays for his sub and is epicly cheap... My one concern is that these changes may drive up the costs of hulls in the market. Then again, I have read that the recent changes in Hyperion have promoted increased production in lowsec markets, so maybe my concern isn't warranted.
Anyone else share the same concern? I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses .............. |

Sunrise Aigele
Pemberley Enterprises BadWrongFun
32
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 14:38:00 -
[99] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:How about this: new modules allowing to "expose" ore better for lasers to gather.
Why new ones? There are plenty of modules in the game that expose interiors. You could even have different weapon systems have different effects on asteroids if you wanted to: lasers and railguns drill, blasters... blast, artillery fractures, autocannons stripmine. Mining lasers could become similar to the way salvagers are now.
It would have the side effect of giving turrets to mining barges, but where is the harm? They would not need a full rack of weapons.
Schmata Bastanold wrote:And since ore would be only discoverable (sites) and scarce (no more than x simultaneous per system or sth) and elusive (signatures fading away with time) cycles of actual mining lazors could be make faster without worrying about saturation of market with instant ore fountains.
I like this idea. The barges would have to get on exercise bicycles first. Of all the dedicated mining ships, only Venture hulls are capable of consistently warping across systems without gassing. As a bonus, they don't take half an age to align. |

Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
268
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 19:07:00 -
[100] - Quote
- Remove all static belts, including ice belts. Make them spawn randomly in all areas of space and not appear on system scanner.
- Give the survey scanner selectable "scripts". Not scripts that you actually have to buy and store in cargo, but they are built into the actual module. Right click and select the ore type you want to find.
- Run the survey scanner while looking at the map overview to get a bunch of little colored dots to warp to. Color of dot tells you how concentrated the ore you are looking for is in that area. So set survey scanner to veldspar, run module, see dots. Set to plagioclase, run module, see different dots. Some dots will be small pockets of roids in the middle of nowhere, most will be parts of the rings around planets or solarsystem. Warp to your chosen dot.
- Run survey scanner while looking at all the pretty roids to get a graphical sweep in space, like the probe scanner when you enter a system. It will show a heatmap overlaid on the roid models that will dissipate after some time. So if you have survey scanner set to veldspar, it will highlight the rocks containing large amounts of veldspar. Load plagioclase script to see plagioclase. etc. The roids themselves are not named by ore type, and can not be visually identified either. You could use the cloven asteroid model from missions, and it may or may not contain any of the ores. Survey scanner will help you identify whats in there.
-Roids can contain several ores. Running lasers without crystals, you may get an assortment of ores from some roids. Usually mostly one ore, with trace amounts of others. Using crystals you can pinpoint and only receive the ore you want in addition to the higher yield rate.
- Roids don't pop but the ore you want depletes quickly and doesn't give huge amounts. So you have to move around more from roid to roid, leaving barren roids behind.
- Make mining ships align faster, move faster, can fit prop mod, can warp a lot without cap depletion, etc.
So miners have to search for their ore and be more active. Likewise gankers will have to search for the miners. Bots will have a more difficult time probably and end up mining crap roids for trace amounts of minerals. Survey scanner is now a more useful module. Tiers of survey scanner can have different effects. Maybe the T2 version is more accurate than the T1. |
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Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope Gallente Federation
267
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 19:18:00 -
[101] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Many interesting and radical ideas
Could you imagine the Forums Really. I Mean REALLY imagine them, if even two of your interesting ideas were implemented. Forget cups. Forget buckets. Tankers would be needed to contain the tears and the rage, and still some would spill over. My "H,T,F & U" keys would be worn down to the circuits.....
Glorious! If only I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses .............. |

DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite CODE.
773
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 00:30:00 -
[102] - Quote
Great read, OP!
I could not agree with you more - the balance of risk vs. reward when it comes to mining is way out of whack and needs to be addressed. I'd love to see low/null/wormhole mining profit get a extreme boost, all while seeing high-sec mining being smacked around a bit with a hammer made of nerf. I won't even go into how I feel about high-sec ore sites :) |

Dave Stark
6754
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 06:09:00 -
[103] - Quote
I still stand by what i said to you on reddit the other day when you posted it there. |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
1880
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 06:33:00 -
[104] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:- Remove all static belts, including ice belts. Make them spawn randomly in all areas of space and not appear on system scanner.
- Give the survey scanner selectable "scripts". Not scripts that you actually have to buy and store in cargo, but they are built into the actual module. Right click and select the ore type you want to find.
- Run the survey scanner while looking at the map overview to get a bunch of little colored dots to warp to. Color of dot tells you how concentrated the ore you are looking for is in that area. So set survey scanner to veldspar, run module, see dots. Set to plagioclase, run module, see different dots. Some dots will be small pockets of roids in the middle of nowhere, most will be parts of the rings around planets or solarsystem. Warp to your chosen dot.
- Run survey scanner while looking at all the pretty roids to get a graphical sweep in space, like the probe scanner when you enter a system. It will show a heatmap overlaid on the roid models that will dissipate after some time. So if you have survey scanner set to veldspar, it will highlight the rocks containing large amounts of veldspar. Load plagioclase script to see plagioclase. etc. The roids themselves are not named by ore type, and can not be visually identified either. You could use the cloven asteroid model from missions, and it may or may not contain any of the ores. Survey scanner will help you identify whats in there.
-Roids can contain several ores. Running lasers without crystals, you may get an assortment of ores from some roids. Usually mostly one ore, with trace amounts of others. Using crystals you can pinpoint and only receive the ore you want in addition to the higher yield rate.
- Roids don't pop but the ore you want depletes quickly and doesn't give huge amounts. So you have to move around more from roid to roid, leaving barren roids behind.
- Make mining ships align faster, move faster, can fit prop mod, can warp a lot without cap depletion, etc.
So miners have to search for their ore and be more active. Likewise gankers will have to search for the miners. Bots will have a more difficult time probably and end up mining crap roids for trace amounts of ore. Survey scanner is now a more useful module. Tiers of survey scanner can have different effects. Maybe the T2 version is more accurate than the T1. I really like these ideas, for a number of reasons. First, it increases the activity level of mining and makes it much more engaging. It also makes the mining ships themselves go from the slow, plodding workhorses they are now into something that's at least a bit more agile and exciting to fly. The randomness of the spawning ores is a huge deal as well, I think that would have the most impact in the mining profession. Large operations, fleets with Orca support for example, could run through a system quickly, but wouldn't bother to stay and clear out every small pocket if they could find systems with larger pockets elsewhere. Meanwhile, individual miners can hunt down these smaller pockets to find sources of ore that aren't completely strip-mined by the fleets. The scanner sounds interesting too, but I'm not sure how the implementation of that one would work. |

Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2628
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 06:51:00 -
[105] - Quote
Yep, Unezka's ideas sound interesting and are basically in line of what I would like to see implemented.
To be honest when they announced incoming industry changes for Kronos I was hoping to see some breath of fresh air for mining but it quickly became obvious mining is not a part of industry they intended to change. At least not then and not in nearest future. Invalid signature format |

epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
1029
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 08:58:00 -
[106] - Quote
I like the writing, a pleasurable read, the ideas of a deeper involvement in the task of mining with more immersion is a laudable goal.
I am less certain with some of the Ideas, however?
Mining anomolies is the first, Hisec, fine no problem.
Dangerous space? Particuarly wormholes, pretty much the only miners we see in wormhole space are bait nowadays. Mining here is pretty much suicide unless the system is closed off and actively scanned. And that's well down the list of profitable activities here. Not counting the PIA shipping it out, but Crius has helped that some.
Personally I would rather dip parts of my body in battery acid than mine, but It was important in my younger days.
Large rocks? Makes things easier, lock and mine leave when full. Downside is Bot activity would hug them like a leech.
Moving the good stuff to Null? Please. No more feed the blue Blob and the Mining bots there.
Hisec safest place? you really must be joking, quite the opposite applies. Null in the blue blob is a thousand times safer.
Ganking is a significant issue with HS Mining.
Humor follows :- don't get the Mining gankers all upset.
There is an argument however that successful mining gankers in their eternal war against Bots, (lets forget the collateral damage) Should have the opportunity for promotion !
Why should they have to suffer for doing their work!?
Once they achieve a good number of kills against the Evil bots, showing themselves to be amongst the elite, they should be promoted to carry on the fight in the Botlands of deepest null!
And to prevent them having their work disturbed by naughty wormholers and the like, should have all their clones moved nice and close to make it convenient to carry on the good fight.
I am sure they will welcome the rewards for being such loyal and hard working soldiers in the war against Bots.
I am also Certain that all the Major Null alliances will be delighted to pay for mining permits in order to be allowed to mine, and nothing could possibly go wrong.
After all isn't that what the code says?
(In case anyone does not realise, this is not a serious suggestion, but is satire or Humor) There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |

Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2630
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 09:04:00 -
[107] - Quote
First thing game should have implemented and provide is interesting and engaging gameplay for players not anti-bot safeties :) Invalid signature format |

Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1479
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 10:14:00 -
[108] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:I still stand by what i said to you on reddit the other day when you posted it there.
I don't know your reddit name! Epic Space Cat |

Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1479
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 10:16:00 -
[109] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:First thing game should have implemented and provide is interesting and engaging gameplay for players not anti-bot safeties :)
Yes. I've always been on the view that you should not punish legitimate players just to go after botters. Epic Space Cat |
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