| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |

Qmamoto Kansuke
Killing with pink power
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 17:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Yes ladies and gents anyone who follows recent trend would notice the amount of threads about dying margins, this has been in motion ever since crius hit.Ccp refuses to acknowledge this despite the large count of times this has been brought to them at current rate they stand to lose more subs because its inevitable when someone has no profit doing what he has done for ages he is most likely to quit than find another item to build, bu wait there's more!Some might say well yer lazy yada there's still a lot items you can build for profit and i say to you for how long?Eventually we will be left with few profitable items and its going to be like jita 0.001 isk fights all day long over those few good items.For casual players that's a game killer.
So there's only one solution me and few mates have already been doing this(one my friends has 35 accounts ) we decided to show CCP what they refuse to see the margins on 90% of the ingame items will die until 2015 is over.What we do is pick an X item and we burn its margin and after that make just enough to keep the margin from ever raising back again.So join me in our quest for to open CCPs eyes that they need to UP the production times again to their old values else this game goes in the trash bin.
Bring up MARGINGEDON!  DEATH TO ALL MARGINS!!! |

Fango Mango
University of Caille Gallente Federation
130
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 17:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't know what you're building but my production lines are turning a daily profit of over 10 million per slot. Just added a 5th production char and am thinking about expanding even more.
-FM
|

Qmamoto Kansuke
Killing with pink power
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 17:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fango Mango wrote:I don't know what you're building but my production lines are turning a daily profit of over 10 million per slot. Just added a 5th production char and am thinking about expanding even more.
-FM
Never said I'm not making profit but that profit is getting smaller everyday. |

Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
801
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 18:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Perhaps you should give the market more time to adjust. Let me give you an example...
I make T2 damage controls. Prepatch, it took 1.25 hours to invent in a POS, 18+ hours to make. Based on my sleep pattern, thst 18 hours meant it was actually a day. So basically, each day I could make 100 DC 2s, limited more by invention.
Now invention was always the bottle neck time wise. So to save my sanity and avoid trips to trade hubs, I would invent in large batches. once I had enough BPCs ready, i would make them. I had a stockpike right before patch. I knew material change were coming, so the wait was planned. The patch hit... Now, instead of 100 mods a day, it takes 4 hours to make 100 mods, and well... Work and sleep hinder Eve life, but still... I can make 300 mods a day now. What would have taken me 12 days is now 4 days.
Guess what, I, like many proceed to mass produce, thinking more mods equals more money. Well... The demand didn't change, but supply sure did. I, and many others, rapidly flood the market (especially since a lot if us held off, drying up the supply, this was why t2 280mm Howie prices rose a ton prepatch). Our flood lowers the market as we compete to sell and get some if thst higher profit. However supply is huge and the market drops.
Also, my bpcs went from -4 ME to much better, meaning more profit per unit if sold at old prices or i can take less profit per and still be good. So more reason for prices to drop.
But wait... Invention times changed. What use to be once every 1.25 hours in a pos is now 4 in a station. This slows me down actually. I could get 4+ invention cycles in a day. Now I get 3 or less. So, once I burn through my existing stock, I (like many others) will actually produce at a slower rate. Prices will bounce back as the demand matches the lower supply. Also, the New bpcs have a lower ME, meaning they cost more.
So basically, you are reacting too soon. We are still in the correction phases. Give it a few months, then see what's happening. My guess, things will balance out and the profits will be about the same. |

Notorious Fellon
Republic University Minmatar Republic
330
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 18:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Your margins are shrinking because the market is adjusting. It takes time.
Are you seriously so confused that you think market prices will remain steady forever and all industrialists will just accept a loss?
Or do you think once demand reduces current stock that prices will slowly rise to place margins right back where they were?
Seriously, think further into the future than your current production run. Then plan for that future. |

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4039
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 18:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Notorious Fellon wrote:Your margins are shrinking because the market is adjusting. It takes time. Haven't been manufacturing for at least two months now. Just sitting here dumping my ISK into my BPO now.
I'm still trying to sell my pre-Crius stockpiles. That will probably take me another month, and compared to some, my stockpiles were tiny.
Yup, gonna take a while. |

Team Bidders
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 20:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
I don't care about margins; I care only about ISK per hour.
Before Crius, I set my minimal requried return to be 400,000 per hour and I have 11 manufacturing slots. I thougth that's good enough, because I can make 4.4 million per hour, which is equal to over 3.1 billion per month.
Now I have 20 manufacturing slots (21th is coming soon) and my minimal required return is 500,000 per hour. I am looking at 7-9 billions' profit this month (before fuels or BPO purchases).
My advice: do more market research.
|

Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
668
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 20:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
my margins are so obscenely high i can't even calculate them |

Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers
213
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 21:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hint:
You are doing it wrong.  |

SJ Astralana
Syncore
61
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 21:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Other than responding as quickly as possible to cost changes, my model and portfolio are unchanged in Crius. Comparing my operation for the 22 days of Crius vs the 22 days prior, my GP% has risen by about 10%. Profits are down about 10%, due primarily to getting spanked by a team I can't for the moment match, but that frees up a good chunk of capital and I'm starting just today to add to my portfolio. Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager |

Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
28
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 08:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:my margins are so obscenely high i can't even calculate them
Mine are so high i dont even bother calculating them |

Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1489
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 10:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
i mine my own minerals, my margin is always 100% Build your empire ! Start today ! Rent Space in Perrigen Falls and Feythabolis Contact me for details :)
|

Nalha Saldana
Saldana Hardware Corporation
808
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 11:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:i mine my own minerals, my margin is always 100%
You still have the difference between selling the ore / minerals and the product, there is no free production. |

Maekchu
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
68
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 11:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Qmamoto Kansuke wrote:Yes ladies and gents anyone who follows recent trend would notice the amount of threads about dying margins, this has been in motion ever since crius hit.Ccp refuses to acknowledge this despite the large count of times this has been brought to them at current rate they stand to lose more subs because its inevitable when someone has no profit doing what he has done for ages he is most likely to quit than find another item to build, bu wait there's more!Some might say well yer lazy yada there's still a lot items you can build for profit and i say to you for how long?Eventually we will be left with few profitable items and its going to be like jita 0.001 isk fights all day long over those few good items.For casual players that's a game killer. So there's only one solution me and few mates have already been doing this(one my friends has 35 accounts  ) we decided to show CCP what they refuse to see the margins on 90% of the ingame items will die until 2015 is over.What we do is pick an X item and we burn its margin and after that make just enough to keep the margin from ever raising back again.So join me in our quest to open CCPs eyes that they need to UP the production times again to their old values else this game goes in the trash bin. Bring up MARGINGEDON!   DEATH TO ALL MARGINS!!! Instead of manufacturing for a loss, how about you just send me the ISK?
I will totally make sure the ISK is spent in promoting, increased margins for industrialists. |

MonkeyBusiness Thiesant
randomly named no tax corp v2
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 12:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Guess it depends what you're selling. If build cost went up in a market with large stockpiles.......
For me, margins are higher than ever. I won't pretend that's because of genius-level foresight, it was just luck. |

Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
753
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 13:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm still netting about 2.5B/mo running a single POS. Don't know what you're doing. But clearly you're doing it wrong. GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥ -Grath Telkin, 2014.
Free PASTA! |

Korsiri
Epilogue Enterprises
110
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 00:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
It is harder for some smaller industrialists* because the margins are so slight that changes in the market affect them much more rapidly and it's harder to sit out market corrections - or predict them accurately, I find. Mind you, I'm not saying manufacture at a loss - you should never do that. I'm speaking in terms of manufacturing things such as ammo and other basic first items industrialists tend to start with. So, now that you've recognized your margins are too low, or you can't/don't want to wait out the market correction: it's time to move to a more lucrative item to manufacture, something with better margins. I'll leave it to you to find said item(s).
Anyway just my two isk.
*smaller to me, is as regards number of production lines running, number of BPO/BPCs - not so much what you're making per se. Just a personal description I tend to use, I'm sure others most likely have their own. |

brinelan
The Flying Dead
154
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 00:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Why is it ccp's job to mess with profits and the market? it isnt. theres too many people doing industry and the markets are still not settled.
Go do something else and come back once the markets settle down to the new normal. |

Lewis Ranieri
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 01:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Capitalism is all about creative destruction. Progress in one industry always destroys another, at the expense of the overall wealth increasing. You are BlockBuster. Meet Netflix. |

Qmamoto Kansuke
Killing with pink power
18
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 10:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lol like i said im not producing at loss, but I see more and more things that goes absurdly low since crius I will give you just one example that I used to build long time ago Adaptive invul t2s pre-crius these things were in the 2.2m range and were super profitable to build right now no matter how tight you squeeze that index you're going to be building them at loss unless you're t2 bpo owner i suppose.I will find those items you still build at profit and i will crush their margins. |

Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4075
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 11:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
If you believe all the hype from "the usual crowd", half of the highsec industry community quit the game when Crius came out, so the margins should be increasing!
Realistically the margins are just moving about a bit while people swap and change what they are building trying to find a new comfort zone. T2s are going to be a bit funny until people run out of the buffed BPCs that got put out with the expansion. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|

Qmamoto Kansuke
Killing with pink power
18
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 12:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:If you believe all the hype from "the usual crowd", half of the highsec industry community quit the game when Crius came out, so the margins should be increasing!
Realistically the margins are just moving about a bit while people swap and change what they are building trying to find a new comfort zone. T2s are going to be a bit funny until people run out of the buffed BPCs that got put out with the expansion.
I hear ya mate, however you just nailed it "until people run out of the buffed BPCs", that's one of the issues, I alone have around 35000 bpcs, and one of my friends has about 98000...yea they are going to run out of bpcs when they are old enough not to be able to lift. |

Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4075
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 13:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
Qmamoto Kansuke wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:If you believe all the hype from "the usual crowd", half of the highsec industry community quit the game when Crius came out, so the margins should be increasing!
Realistically the margins are just moving about a bit while people swap and change what they are building trying to find a new comfort zone. T2s are going to be a bit funny until people run out of the buffed BPCs that got put out with the expansion. I hear ya mate, however you just nailed it "until people run out of the buffed BPCs", that's one of the issues, I alone have around 35000 bpcs, and one of my friends has about 98000...yea they are going to run out of bpcs when they are old enough not to be able to lift.  Since that's restricted to T2 BPCs, the difference is quite small (unbuffed get like 4% buffed go up to 9% at most) and because T2 BPCs are now much closer to T2 BPOs, I don't think it will be a huge issue. At most it will stop new entrants into certain overly populated T2 markets, but the primary market margins will be unaffected. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|

Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
78
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 15:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
I am not exactly a trader and can't claim to be well attuned to the pulse of the entire market. However, as a manufacturer I run a spreadsheet that calculates margins on 251 non-capital ship hull T1 items calculated based on the current low sell order at Jita and calculating build cost off of the mineral value of the current low sell prices of the minerals (and other materials) that make them, plus the install costs based on the system cost index of the high sec system I was at before I moved to null sec, and adjustable for whether the items were made in POS arrays or in stations. Basically it reflects my high sec T1 manufacturing operation before I moved to null sec which was entirely based around buying components and materials at Jita and selling manufactured items at Jita. The sheet color codes every item with more than a 20% margin as green. There are currently 92 of 251 items that are selling at Jita at or above 20% above the production cost as described above. Cursorily looking down the margin column I see multiple items selling above 30% and above 40%. Yes, certain things have changed, such as RAM Techs (no surprise, they were always over inflated). But in general, Battleships seem to be selling at slightly negative up to about 10% margin on the Apocalypse right now. The Caracal is 12% and the Moa is 17% (Thank you HERO!), and well I could go on, but basically my little sample of the T1 market is showing a lot of health and opportunity. You're doing something wrong, OP. |

Team Bidders
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 16:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Qmamoto Kansuke wrote:Lol like i said im not producing at loss, but I see more and more things that goes absurdly low since crius I will give you just one example that I used to build long time ago Adaptive invul t2s pre-crius these things were in the 2.2m range and were super profitable to build right now no matter how tight you squeeze that index you're going to be building them at loss unless you're t2 bpo owner i suppose.I will find those items you still build at profit and i will crush their margins. 
I researched T2 Adaptive Invul roughly 2 years ago. This was a market over-supplied by T2 BPO manufacturers.
Since then it was removed from my watchlist. Therefore, I didn't know what happened since then. Maybe a T2 BPO owner stopped producing them and let the price go up so that he could sell hsi T2 BPO at better price.
I advice: Don't be a one-trick pony.Watch over more markets.
|

Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
140
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 20:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
Pass that tax onto the consumer. **** that guy. |

Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
676
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 21:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Qmamoto Kansuke wrote:Lol like i said im not producing at loss, but I see more and more things that goes absurdly low since crius I will give you just one example that I used to build long time ago Adaptive invul t2s pre-crius these things were in the 2.2m range and were super profitable to build right now no matter how tight you squeeze that index you're going to be building them at loss unless you're t2 bpo owner i suppose.I will find those items you still build at profit and i will crush their margins.  you try that, i'm going to go build a third t3 amarr factory for our delicious 5% ME but with lower fees |

Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
308
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 06:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:my margins are so obscenely high i can't even calculate them
I'm so high... I dont even know whats going on... 
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|

Bydlo Moneymaker
Celestial Machines
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.17 17:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
I for one won't extend my subscription for a few months ... maybe the prices will be back up again around christmas. As it is now I can't be really bothered to start the EVE client for the **** poor margins. Too much effort ... |

Erik Sokarad
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.17 22:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
the first trick, is that manufacturing has several margins in the process. ore refines to minerals, minerals craft into things (which may be sub-components themselves). so there is a margin when the miner sells ore, a miner when someone buys the ore, refines it, and sells the minerals, and a margin when manufacturing occurs. some people increase their profit margin by doing several steps of this process on their own.
margins are changing for two reasons- changes to refining and thus supply of minerals (actual ore mining is unaffected), and changes to manufacturing processes (change in minerals required).
because the patch changes multiple margins at once, it is taking longer to stabilize the cost of minerals, and thus the cost of manufacturing, because both supply and demand of those minerals has shifted at the same time. and to make matters worse, a lot of industrialists are simply bad at math resulting in strange prices.
the second trick, is that there is a lot of money to be had if you can just patiently read and understand the market data. the market is currently under pressure to decentralize away from hubs, which means demand for minerals will de-centralize as well. and that means the real money is in hauling product to market in the short run, as more demands shift away from supplies.
|

Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
151
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 01:52:00 -
[31] - Quote
Qmamoto Kansuke wrote:I used to build long time ago Adaptive invul t2s pre-crius these things were in the 2.2m range and were super profitable to build right now no matter how tight you squeeze that index you're going to be building them at loss unless you're t2 bpo owner i suppose.  It will be interesting to see if the price drop is due to conversion T2 BPC's, faster throughput on production -- or competition from new manufacturers.
The barrier to entry to the most common T2 items has been so greatly reduced that I wonder if the market isn't impacted from extra supply from new manufacturers then it will at least be impacted by reduced demand because people start building the T2 modules they use.
|

Dan Seavey Allier
Seavy Acquisitions
10
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
I love it.
The lazy like industrialists who are too reluctant to change, research, and analyze are the ones who will be unsubbing and rage quitting.
This starts freeing up market opertunities for newer less experienced and established players just getting into it.
Working as intended, o.p.
Dan
"I've seen a more logical and grounded opinion expressed with **** smeared on the inside of a crib, than what I just read in your post." -á --J.R.-á |

Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3422
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 23:46:00 -
[33] - Quote
I took some losses on Light Neutron Blaster IIs coming into Crius, had not expected them to tank so hard. Underestimated the BPO impact.
But it's all good, I just set 9 jobs that are expected to make 1.3 million ISK per hour, per production line. Would be almost 3m if I had a POS operating at the moment. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346564 - a proposal to overhaul the Logistics skill https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |

adriaans
Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
11
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:21:00 -
[34] - Quote
Qmamoto Kansuke wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:If you believe all the hype from "the usual crowd", half of the highsec industry community quit the game when Crius came out, so the margins should be increasing!
Realistically the margins are just moving about a bit while people swap and change what they are building trying to find a new comfort zone. T2s are going to be a bit funny until people run out of the buffed BPCs that got put out with the expansion. I hear ya mate, however you just nailed it "until people run out of the buffed BPCs", that's one of the issues, I alone have around 35000 bpcs, and one of my friends has about 98000...yea they are going to run out of bpcs when they are old enough not to be able to lift. 
As I recently tested, turns out selling these massive BPC stacks is actually better profit than manufacturing, though even that is going to take me many years to run out... ----True oldschool solo pvp'er---- My latest vid: Insanity IV |

pug lei
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:57:00 -
[35] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Perhaps you should give the market more time to adjust. Let me give you an example...
I make T2 damage controls. Prepatch, it took 1.25 hours to invent in a POS, 18+ hours to make. Based on my sleep pattern, thst 18 hours meant it was actually a day. So basically, each day I could make 100 DC 2s, limited more by invention.
Now invention was always the bottle neck time wise. So to save my sanity and avoid trips to trade hubs, I would invent in large batches. once I had enough BPCs ready, i would make them. I had a stockpike right before patch. I knew material change were coming, so the wait was planned. The patch hit... Now, instead of 100 mods a day, it takes 4 hours to make 100 mods, and well... Work and sleep hinder Eve life, but still... I can make 300 mods a day now. What would have taken me 12 days is now 4 days.
Guess what, I, like many proceed to mass produce, thinking more mods equals more money. Well... The demand didn't change, but supply sure did. I, and many others, rapidly flood the market (especially since a lot if us held off, drying up the supply, this was why t2 280mm Howie prices rose a ton prepatch). Our flood lowers the market as we compete to sell and get some if thst higher profit. However supply is huge and the market drops.
Also, my bpcs went from -4 ME to much better, meaning more profit per unit if sold at old prices or i can take less profit per and still be good. So more reason for prices to drop.
But wait... Invention times changed. What use to be once every 1.25 hours in a pos is now 4 in a station. This slows me down actually. I could get 4+ invention cycles in a day. Now I get 3 or less. So, once I burn through my existing stock, I (like many others) will actually produce at a slower rate. Prices will bounce back as the demand matches the lower supply. Also, the New bpcs have a lower ME, meaning they cost more.
So basically, you are reacting too soon. We are still in the correction phases. Give it a few months, then see what's happening. My guess, things will balance out and the profits will be about the same.
It depends on how long it takes. there are literally still Battleships on the market from the insurance scam days.
|

Julius Cabeki
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:44:00 -
[36] - Quote
Do people use t2 module production in deep null sec as a way to compress pi and moon materials, and does it have a noticeable impact on market? |

Zappity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1296
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 09:55:00 -
[37] - Quote
So your plan is to prove to CCP that margins are reducing by reducing margins yourself? Not quite sure that counts as a true consequence of mechanics. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |