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Why is the crow so much better than other intys?

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Kyria Timeyu	Posted - 2006.07.19 17:42:00 - [1] You just have to take a look the market and you can see that the crow is a lot more popular than any other inty. It costs 3 times as much as them. And why not, it's a frigate that can move at 3km+ per second while shooting for 100-200dps at 50km. But what I'm wondering is why CCP is allowing this unbalance to develop. Right now this isn't a big problem because its higher power is balanced by its higher price, but when reverse engineering and BPC research comes out you can bet everyone and his grandmother is going to be building crows, and then we'll have people flying nothing but crows as interceptors
Laboratus Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 17:43:00 - [2] Because it uses missiles. Mind control and tin hats
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 17:45:00 - [3] I am a Caldari spec. pilot but I am already migrating to Gallente. Taranis is better. Raptor is also good. Crow is not that wonderful. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 17:45:00 - [4] Its not so much better, but not having to track (particularly given inty speeds) is a huge advantage. Remember also, there are vastly more caldari than anything else, and the raptor sucks hard.
Jim Raynor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 17:45:00 - [5] wtb 200dps crow i dont know why crow prices shot up, maybe because caldari are popular and have more demand, maybe the bpo owners got together and decided they could get more by all increasing prices, who knows ------ I'll make a sig later.
Shintoko Akahoshi Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.19 17:48:00 - [6] It's easy to fly with relatively low skill points, and Crow tactics are pretty safe (i.e. you can fight from outside web range). It's also pretty fast, compared to most of the other 3+ midslot interceptors, which means that it can pick and choose its fights. On the downside, it's costly and doesn't do a tremendous amount of damage. It's also fairly fragile, so it goes down quickly if things go wrong. Oh, and please tell me how you can shoot for 200 dps from 50km in a Crow. Light missile Crows do laughable little damage, while rocket Crows can't fight from 50km. 15km (for a moderately skilled pilot firing light missiles, or an uber pilot with the right fitting firing rockets in the right tactical situation) is more like it. The Red Mom of WarÖ
Master OlavPancrazio	Posted - 2006.07.19 17:48:00 - [7] They aren't the best.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.19 17:52:00 - [8] Originally by: Jim Raynor wtb 200dps crow i dont know why crow prices shot up, maybe because caldari are popular and have more demand, maybe the bpo owners got together and decided they could get more by all increasing prices, who knows You are selling fog there and you know it. Blastertaranis vs crow with a little brains results in very dead taranis. (and it must be very stupid crow pilot to get killed by blastertaranis, luckily crow is caldari ship so... we know who is flying them in 75% cases) Why is crow popular: 1. always hit (hitting with 125mm rail or dl beam while orbiting with mwd... yeah carrier maybe) 2. good burst damage 3. good locking range(much more important than it seems. At least to inty vets) Oh and i hug caldari alt with inty 5 :) --------- Boost caldari. It will reduce whining on forums due to the fact: 45% chars are mostly caldari specialized.
Master OlavPancrazio	Posted - 2006.07.19 18:01:00 - [9] Who cares, the point you are arguing is retarded. Intercepters aren't supposed to be rated at how good they can fight other intercepters, but how well they can tackle ships. Other ships do way better dps, tank better, all while tackling just as well as the crow.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 18:11:00 - [10] Originally by: LUKEC Boost caldari. It will reduce whining on forums due to the fact: 45% chars are mostly caldari specialized. Your sig says it all. That alone makes the Crow expensive. It is very balanced though because ppl who lose them keep buying at a stage where they think it is too expensive and move on to different ships. Adapt or cry is the theme of this thread. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.19 18:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: LUKEC Boost caldari. It will reduce whining on forums due to the fact: 45% chars are mostly caldari specialized. Your sig says it all. That alone makes the Crow expensive. It is very balanced though because ppl who lose them keep buying at a stage where they think it is too expensive and move on to different ships. Adapt or cry is the theme of this thread. Sorry i have caldari alt.. very specialized :) And it is 1w1n ship for people with no skills. Like raven. --------- Boost caldari. It will reduce whining on forums due to the fact: 45% chars are mostly caldari specialized.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 18:16:00 - [12] Originally by: LUKEC Sorry i have caldari alt.. very specialized :) And it is 1w1n ship for people with no skills. Like raven. I must be crap. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Dark Shikari Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 18:17:00 - [13] Solution: Lower crow speed. --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTS Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II, Medium Warp Bubbles-
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 18:18:00 - [14] Originally by: Dark Shikari Solution: Lower crow speed. Please don't
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 18:23:00 - [15] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I am a Caldari spec. pilot but I am already migrating to Gallente. Taranis is better. Raptor is also good. Crow is not that wonderful. I thought you said you were going minmatar. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 18:24:00 - [16] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I am a Caldari spec. pilot but I am already migrating to Gallente. Taranis is better. Raptor is also good. Crow is not that wonderful. I thought you said you were going minmatar. My secret alt. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 18:31:00 - [17] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I am a Caldari spec. pilot but I am already migrating to Gallente. Taranis is better. Raptor is also good. Crow is not that wonderful. I thought you said you were going minmatar. My secret alt. Sometimes i feel everybody has alts but me in this game. Getting paranoid. I dont want to have a second account, and i dont want to waste skill training time on this account on several chars. So im stuck with the choices I make... minnie is going to rule my world for the next few years. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Arkanor Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 18:45:00 - [18] Originally by: Dark Shikari Solution: Lower crow speed. Oh god no, can they have ONE fast ship (that I happen to own?) Balance the Gun/Missile skilltrees! Originally by: kieron rabble, Rabble, RABBLE,
Weirda Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.19 18:51:00 - [19] Originally by: Kyria Timeyu Why is the crow so much better than other intys? it isn't. Originally by: Kyria Timeyu You just have to take a look the market and you can see that the crow is a lot more popular than any other inty. It costs 3 times as much as them. the market is driven by sheep - not reality. it is an indication of nothing but supply vs demand... the most 'popular' race have always had some of the most pricy ship. Quote: And why not, it's a frigate that can move at 3km+ per second while shooting for 100-200dps at 50km. But what I'm wondering is why CCP is allowing this unbalance to develop. this utterly false. crow have (maybe) lowest dps of all interceptor with exception of maybe the malediction or stiletto. Quote: Right now this isn't a big problem because its higher power is balanced by its higher price that never balances anything so... Quote: but when reverse engineering and BPC research comes out you can bet everyone and his grandmother is going to be building crows, and then we'll have people flying nothing but crows as interceptors this is utter crap... an invalid argument, and a slippery slope based on assumption. 1) Weirda does not fly crows 2) Weirda does not WANT to fly crows 3) The grass is always greener, especially to people who don't know what they are talking about 4) Crows are easy to kill (with other interceptors), or simply ignore due to their abysmal damage and lack of ability to keep you from going anywhere in another inty. There is no cruiser that couldn't tank one indefinatley... and there is no AF that couldn't pop one if it was set up for range as well. 5) there is no problem. are they annoying? yes. are FOTM setups annoying? Yes. Effective, sure, but very predictable. obviously these are all OPINION of weirda, but they are based on actual experience rather then assumptions made off of irrelevant data (or for the wrong reasons against that data). stiletto is (and probably always has been) the cheapest interceptor... does it suck? no. what did you actually lose to a crow (honestly) - and did it have anything to do with the fact that it was a crow? or would any fast long range ship have killed you the same? __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now
Arbenowskee Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.19 19:03:00 - [20] Originally by: Kyria Timeyu You just have to take a look the market and you can see that the crow is a lot more popular than any other inty. It costs 3 times as much as them. And why not, it's a frigate that can move at 3km+ per second while shooting for 100-200dps at 50km. But what I'm wondering is why CCP is allowing this unbalance to develop. Right now this isn't a big problem because its higher power is balanced by its higher price, but when reverse engineering and BPC research comes out you can bet everyone and his grandmother is going to be building crows, and then we'll have people flying nothing but crows as interceptors crow does maybe 70 DPS with lights. and that's whith good skills. so it has low dmg, one of the lowest HP of all inties and it's the third slowest inty with 425 m/s (taranis - 420 and raptor doing 415). so it's basicly pretty crappy ship, all it has is range and the fact it does not need to track. range is a nice thing to exploit against other inties if their pilot is stupid enough to stay around and get hit by missiles from more than 20km. best inty imo? railranis. by far. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sig too large. Maximum size 400x120 and 24000 bytes. -Oiri Yusko
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.19 19:09:00 - [21] Edited by: LUKEC on 19/07/2006 19:11:08 Edited by: LUKEC on 19/07/2006 19:09:16 Originally by: Arbenowskee Originally by: Kyria Timeyu You just have to take a look the market and you can see that the crow is a lot more popular than any other inty. It costs 3 times as much as them. And why not, it's a frigate that can move at 3km+ per second while shooting for 100-200dps at 50km. But what I'm wondering is why CCP is allowing this unbalance to develop. Right now this isn't a big problem because its higher power is balanced by its higher price, but when reverse engineering and BPC research comes out you can bet everyone and his grandmother is going to be building crows, and then we'll have people flying nothing but crows as interceptors crow does maybe 70 DPS with lights. and that's whith good skills. so it has low dmg, one of the lowest HP of all inties and it's the third slowest inty with 425 m/s (taranis - 420 and raptor doing 415). so it's basicly pretty crappy ship, all it has is range and the fact it does not need to track. range is a nice thing to exploit against other inties if their pilot is stupid enough to stay around and get hit by missiles from more than 20km. best inty imo? railranis. by far. well... no, it is not. Reason: frigs have like 1k hp, that's 2 volleys from crow. Also i've done enough taranis flying and it is not THAT good. Actually best inty atm is crusader with web and pulses, only problem is that... it CANNOT scramble. --------- Boost caldari. It will reduce whining on forums due to the fact: 45% chars are mostly caldari specialized.
Vladimir Norkoff	Posted - 2006.07.19 19:34:00 - [22] Yeah, never quite understood that whole dps fantacism.. DPS doesn't mean doo-doo if a) you're not in range, b) you can't hit your target, and c) you're dead before you can correct either of the above..
Isonkon Serikain Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 20:46:00 - [23] crow definitely is easiest to fly and engage other inties with... The reasons have been given already... -good enough damage -good speed and ability to dictate range (the other 2 3-midslot inties that are FASTER than the crow have less firepower) - no need to track with missiles 4tw come to think of it, crow is not really fitting as a caldari ship... I could be a tad slower/heavier... Ison's notches more notches
Isonkon Serikain Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 20:47:00 - [24] crow definitely is easiest to fly and engage other inties with... The reasons have been given already... -good enough damage -good speed and ability to dictate range (the other 2 3-midslot inties that are FASTER than the crow have less firepower) - no need to track with missiles 4tw come to think of it, crow is not really fitting as a caldari ship... I could be a tad slower/heavier... Ison's notches more notches
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.19 20:55:00 - [25] I'm not convinced the crow is the best inty. I fly one, because it sucks less than the raptor, but... Well, price isn't an indicator or 'best' just 'most in demand'. There's a lot of caldari specced people out there, and raptors ... well, maybe don't suck, but in the main split weapon systems are unpopular.
steveid Penetrate	Posted - 2006.07.19 20:58:00 - [26] long range weaponry guaranteed damage better speed (and if your opponent uses mwd your damage goes up)
Merin Ryskin Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 21:09:00 - [27] Or a couple other reasons to consider... 1) It's Caldari. There are a lot of pilots with Caldari Frigate V and good missile skills, so the Crow is the easiest interceptor for those pilots to fly. But the number of BPOs is the same as the other interceptors, making it a simple supply/demand situation. 2) It's "good enough" and easy to fly (player skill), making it a good default choice for a first interceptor. So it picks up a lot of the "which interceptor should I fly?????" crowd, making even more demand for the same supply.
Dethis Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 21:35:00 - [28] Originally by: Isonkon Serikain crow definitely is easiest to fly and engage other inties with... The reasons have been given already... -good enough damage -good speed and ability to dictate range (the other 2 3-midslot inties that are FASTER than the crow have less firepower) - no need to track with missiles 4tw come to think of it, crow is not really fitting as a caldari ship... I could be a tad slower/heavier... It really should be heaviest and slowest of the inties. /me ducks -------- Kill em all and let god sort em out
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 21:36:00 - [29] Originally by: Toy Here is a reason for you... I met someone 2 days ago. She is coming back to EVE for the KALI patch later this year. So she said to me, "I'm trying to sort through my hangers after this year or two off, and I found a crow BPO. Are crows any good now? What is production like now?" I almost fell out of my chair!!!! I was honest and told her to NEVER trade or sell that BPO, and now my theory is that there are several crow BPOs out of circulation. Hense the high prices. Means there are more Crow BPOs now. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 21:38:00 - [30] Originally by: Dethis Originally by: Isonkon Serikain crow definitely is easiest to fly and engage other inties with... The reasons have been given already... -good enough damage -good speed and ability to dictate range (the other 2 3-midslot inties that are FASTER than the crow have less firepower) - no need to track with missiles 4tw come to think of it, crow is not really fitting as a caldari ship... I could be a tad slower/heavier... It really should be heaviest and slowest of the inties. /me ducks /fistshake Crow is not thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat fast. Caldari is already well balanced. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Shamis Orzoz SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.07.19 21:48:00 - [31] The reason the crow is the best is because any serious inty pilot is going to go get some snake implants and a long range warp disruptor. Very few inties can hit well outside of 20km, and none of them can track well while going 7-8km/s except the crow...missles 4tw.
Dethis Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 21:52:00 - [32] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz The reason the crow is the best is because any serious inty pilot is going to go get some snake implants and a long range warp disruptor. Very few inties can hit well outside of 20km, and none of them can track well while going 7-8km/s except the crow...missles 4tw. Coincidentally enough the one place missiles are better in pvp is on the most flown class of ship in pvp Ill just sit in my taranis and pout until i get up the time to train cald frig 5 -------- Kill em all and let god sort em out
Crellion	Posted - 2006.07.19 22:09:00 - [33] Lukec: Please refrain from posting "I know all about Crow". Other posts in this forum show that this is perhaps not entirely accurate. I am a bit surprised tbh because my general opinion is that you rarely if ever at all post crap. I guess this is an exception? Low SP and flying skill Crows are worse than low SP and flying skills other ceptors. Using tech II rocket launchers and 125 rails on an Ared you kill a low skill rocket Crow at straight gank v tank deathmatch. Afaik its the only "high tier" ceptor that the Ares can outdps. Crows do not kill intys in two volleys. (a) Because you are talking about damge from tech II precision lights and if you use them on a Crow every respectable blaster ranis will munch you. (b) Because no inty (1v1 fitted) has 1000hp LOL. Most have 1000+ in armor alone. Ranis has 300ish shield 500ish armor, a reper and 800-ish super hardened structure on the high gank low tank set up LOL. Still you stand a very good chance winning 1v1s in a Crow yes. If* you are faster and with low skills a Crow pilot is slower than at least half of the other intys out there. All in all its equal to Taranis ans perhaps fractionally better than other intys as a "1v1" inty if* you have enough SP AND good skills. If there is one thing it excells at is as bait for noob cruisers simply because it tends to tackle with a 20 km morethan other intys. There is nothing however stopping a blasterranis from doing the same. As for the "uberCrow of Doom" that does 8km/s I am fairly certain you are not referring to that (as you are talking about low skills and not perfect skills). Anyway I guess uberness is in the eye of the beholder.
OrangeAfroMan Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.07.19 22:09:00 - [34] Originally by: LUKEC Give crusader and claw 3 medslots ... it will solve many inty problems. <3 LUKEC hehe Dont forget the Ares tho =p Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
Crellion	Posted - 2006.07.19 22:14:00 - [35] Edited by: Crellion on 19/07/2006 22:14:43 Originally by: Shamis Orzoz The reason the crow is the best is because any serious inty pilot is going to go get some snake implants and a long range warp disruptor. Very few inties can hit well outside of 20km, and none of them can track well while going 7-8km/s except the crow...missles 4tw. Thats a 700 mill set up on an inty. Set up a Claw-Crusader with snake and you are faster than him. use your skills to catch him web him and pop him. Guess how much damage you will get per volley from standard tech I missles if you go at 9km/s yourself: ...... (if you said "virtually 0" you win)
Benglada Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.07.19 22:17:00 - [36] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: LUKEC Sorry i have caldari alt.. very specialized :) And it is 1w1n ship for people with no skills. Like raven. I must be crap. I thought you were migrating to minm? Now gal? Make up your damned mind. --------------------------- Originally by: Wrangler Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote..
Crellion	Posted - 2006.07.19 22:28:00 - [37] Originally by: Benglada Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: LUKEC Sorry i have caldari alt.. very specialized :) And it is 1w1n ship for people with no skills. Like raven. I must be crap. I thought you were migrating to minm? Now gal? Make up your damned mind. Gallente Crows 4tw?
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.07.19 22:48:00 - [38] 3 mid slots + longest locking range of any inty (66% more than the claw) + no tracking = best inty.
Christopher Scott Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 22:55:00 - [39] Crows do not have: a)Massive DPS. They have comparible DPS with rockets and close range skills/setup. Light missiles only really compare against larger targerts. b)Killer range. Their only range is light missiles, which does not do killer damage, or even competable damage. Tech II rockets, even with their inherit negative impact, also have a signature increase that reduces their damage. Regular thorn rockets do more damage to an interceptor than rage rockets, FYI. c)Better hitpoints. Their best resistances is with their weakest hitpoints, the armor. The crow has beefier shields, but shields are naturally unforgiving. Despite the math equations, armor tends to be more resillient. Crows DO have: a)Better speed and maneuverability, which is a necessity for the crow. Dishing out long-ranged weapons is pointless when you have no range superiority, especially in a fast-paced inty fight. b)More balanced slot loadout. Other races either have emphasis on midslots or lowslots, while the crow has an even mixture of both, plus a more forgiving CPU. c)Better tracking. One of the upsides of missiles. Any questions?
madaluap Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.20 00:00:00 - [40] ares can kill crows, hell yeh ares can kill anything (no sarcasm) _________________________________________________
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.07.20 00:27:00 - [41] I think crow is one of the best for 1-on-1 between ceptors. You dont even need to use light missiles and stay out of web range, rockets and a good webber is enough if you know what you are doing. But crow also has one of the lowest DPS for all ceptors (only stiletto has worse), which means in smaller gangs a 200 DPS turret ceptor is far better. And the ceptor with lowest DPS, stiletto, is the best tackler. All in all, pretty balanced I would say.
Cohkka	Posted - 2006.07.20 00:52:00 - [42] Originally by: Dark Shikari Solution: Lower crow speed. Yes, or increase mass. I never quite understood why Minmatar had the heaviest Intys while Caldari have the lightest followed by Amarr Intys. Crow doesn't need better agility, certainly not better than Taranis and Claw that either have to get close pretty fast or be able to somewhat controll the range. That's why the Crow is the ship that used plates since it was introduced about 2 years ago, It doesn't need that speed, nor does it need to be agil... To be on topic: The Crow is incredibly easy to use, I know it I've flown them myself; and met some very skilled Crowpilots who tought me one or the other trick. It's like the torp Raven/Blasterthron issue. Looking at the tank and DPS Megathron should be able to take the Raven but in most cases it won't (if the pilots have about the same skill) since the Mega has to get into range and the Raven doesn't care if the Mega is 0 or 20km away... Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5...
Cohkka	Posted - 2006.07.20 00:56:00 - [43] Originally by: madaluap ares can kill crows, hell yeh ares can kill anything (no sarcasm) So can the Raptor and the Stiletto. What's your point? :s Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5...
MrFu Turanic Raiders	Posted - 2006.07.20 01:53:00 - [44] Originally by: LUKEC Give crusader and claw 3 medslots ... it will solve many inty problems. Yes plz
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.20 01:57:00 - [45] The only reason to use a crow is if you want to fly an interceptor and be almost completely safe. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Famine Aligher'ri V i L e	Posted - 2006.07.20 02:07:00 - [46] Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 20/07/2006 02:08:53 Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Jim Raynor wtb 200dps crow i dont know why crow prices shot up, maybe because caldari are popular and have more demand, maybe the bpo owners got together and decided they could get more by all increasing prices, who knows You are selling fog there and you know it. Blastertaranis vs crow with a little brains results in very dead taranis. (and it must be very stupid crow pilot to get killed by blastertaranis, luckily crow is caldari ship so... we know who is flying them in 75% cases) Why is crow popular: 1. always hit (hitting with 125mm rail or dl beam while orbiting with mwd... yeah carrier maybe) 2. good burst damage 3. good locking range(much more important than it seems. At least to inty vets) Oh and i hug caldari alt with inty 5 :) Can I join BoB and replace this new pilot? --------------- Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates
Nooey Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.20 03:01:00 - [47] Edited by: Nooey on 20/07/2006 03:02:26 Originally by: Crellion Whole lotta stuff that made sense. Couldn't agree more man. As a friend once remarked, the Missile Crow (by far the most common variant) has the DPS of a rolled up newspaper. A soggy one. I only know about Caldari and Gallente Interceptors, almost exclusively within the context of Inty 1v1's. Basically a Railranis Versus a Missile Crow will end up in a Stalemate 95% of the time if both pilots are equally skilled and competent. Any half decent Railranis pilot will load his Iridium (Or faction Iridium even, it's dirt cheap) and force the Crow to back off. Sure, if the Crow pilot is good he will never, ever, die. But if the Railranis pilot is good he will never die either, since he forces the crow outside 20km with Iridium, due to dishing out way more damage than he's taking, whilst at the same time, being able to take a whole deal more damage than the Crow can. Once he forces the Crow to retreat outside 20km, that is the point at which he is free to warp off. There is one exception to this rule. It's not an all out exception, but something that happens sometimes, not all the time. Extremely good Crow pilots can manage their transversal whilst doing flybys, which makes them a lot harder to track, even against a pilot with good gunnery skills, the Taranis tracking bonuses and the inherently good tracking of 125mm II's all put together. The Ranis pilot will miss a lot if the Crow does it right. Whilst they are doing flybys, the very best Crow pilots can sometimes manage to keep the scramble on the Ranis pilot before they slip out of the scramble and enter warp. It's by no means easy, and depends on a whole lot of factors, like how many warpable entities around around both fighting inty's. If there's warpable entities in all directions, it favours the escapee Ranis, if there's only a few angles at which the Ranis under fire can warp to, the best of Crow pilots will be watching for him to align towards them and will close to make sure of the scramble in those moments his enemy starts aligning (It takes a good deal of time to align when mwd'ing) It's a very tricky process for the Crow pilot, just the slightest misjudgement and an equally good ranis pilot will be able to warp out. In terms of Rocket Crow Vs Railranis, the Rocket Crow only has a good chance if it packs a Nosferatu and manages to close range early in the fight. They can utterly shut down the Ranis which is very cap-dependant, but closing early is vital, or the Ranis will microwarp off (As early on in the fight it will still have the cap to do so). The only hope in that situation is for the Ranis pilot to maintain 8km or so and go nuts with Antimatter, staying outside Nos range. Usually isn't too hard to do that, and I'd always prefer to be the Railranis in that situation as opposed to the crow. That's my 2c. Edited for Stoner Grammar. ____
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.20 06:38:00 - [48] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 20/07/2006 06:38:37 ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.20 06:38:00 - [49] Originally by: Benglada Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: LUKEC Sorry i have caldari alt.. very specialized :) And it is 1w1n ship for people with no skills. Like raven. I must be crap. I thought you were migrating to minm? Now gal? Make up your damned mind. Jenny has hybrids. Alt Minitar. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.20 06:40:00 - [50] Originally by: Crellion Originally by: Benglada Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: LUKEC Sorry i have caldari alt.. very specialized :) And it is 1w1n ship for people with no skills. Like raven. I must be crap. I thought you were migrating to minm? Now gal? Make up your damned mind. Gallente Crows 4tw? Domi, Ishtar, Taranis. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
OrangeAfroMan Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.07.20 07:40:00 - [51] Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 19/07/2006 22:14:43 Originally by: Shamis Orzoz The reason the crow is the best is because any serious inty pilot is going to go get some snake implants and a long range warp disruptor. Very few inties can hit well outside of 20km, and none of them can track well while going 7-8km/s except the crow...missles 4tw. Thats a 700 mill set up on an inty. Set up a Claw-Crusader with snake and you are faster than him. use your skills to catch him web him and pop him. Guess how much damage you will get per volley from standard tech I missles if you go at 9km/s yourself: ...... (if you said "virtually 0" you win) Yes 700mil to set up an inty for a serious pilot is normal. Sadly that same claw that just wtfpwned the crow will rather quickly die to any cruiser, a flaw that that crow does not have. Originally by: "crellion" c)Better hitpoints. Their best resistances is with their weakest hitpoints, the armor. The crow has beefier shields, but shields are naturally unforgiving. Despite the math equations, armor tends to be more resillient. Hm.. Well firstly their resists are about even shield vs armor, and I have no idea where you come up with armor being more forgiving, when shields have passive recharge and the crow has 2.14x more shield than armor... "despite maths" ... so... we're throwing the only true factual medium out the window? Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
Johnny Bravo	Posted - 2006.07.20 07:55:00 - [52] Edited by: Johnny Bravo on 20/07/2006 07:59:10 Originally by: Jim Raynor i dont know why crow prices shot up, maybe because caldari are popular and have more demand, maybe the bpo owners got together and decided they could get more by all increasing prices, who knows I know. Go to Jita and look for volume orders. You will notice what Crow sells hardly more than Claw and Taranis. Ergo, its syndicate price. The bane of Eve T2 market. When 100k in minerals BCU II (8 mil. atm) costs 4 times more than 1 mil XLarge SB II - you understand something is very wrong with Eve T2 market.
OrangeAfroMan Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.07.20 08:04:00 - [53] Edited by: OrangeAfroMan on 20/07/2006 08:05:34 Edited by: OrangeAfroMan on 20/07/2006 08:05:00 Originally by: Double TaP Originally by: OrangeAfroMan Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK I had always hoped missiles would be the niche weapon that, while not being as powerful as turrets, had the advantage of doing any damage type. I wish launchers would have a faster ammo load time and kinetic damage bonuses would apply to all missile types. Then perhaps missiles could find a unique niche in versatility. No tracking and range worries = as much or more actual DPS than turrets. riiiight... have you ever pvp'd before? I have. Perhaps you should look me up in game? Oh goodness where to begin.. Turrets need to be within optimal + falloff. At that range you get 50% hit percentage and 50% damage if you DO hit. It is also varied by what KIND of hit you get, even if the two have 0 transversal, you'll get glancing and other low damage hits, while missiles do the same damage at any range (typically greater than or equal to the comprable turret's optimal + falloff, farther if they are chasing you). So missiles can start firing as soon as they get lock, while turrets need to wait until they're in range, hope that transversal allows them to even HIT, and even in optimal with zero transversal they dont get consistant hits. Here's a scinario. Missile user lands 30km from turret user. Both are confident. Missile user starts firing instantly while keeping range of 20 km. Turret user has not fired yet because the target is not within range. Assuming the turret user can get decent hits at 20km, he starts firing then, missing some, hitting some weakly, some well, while the missile user is still getting consistant hits on the turret user. The missile user then decides to increase transversal, further reducing the quality of the turret user's hits. Who do you think has done and is doing more damage? Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
Velaine Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.20 10:22:00 - [54] Ok, i¦m a relatively dedicated minmatar/ Caldari Interceptor pilot and i have to admit that i mostly fly the Crow. Why? Not because the Crow is so uber, but because the other Interceptors have some serious flaws. here are a few points : Claw: Nice dmg output but way too low locking range (very bad at 4,5km/s+), only 2 medslots--> useless for tackling. Actually there¦s not much the Claw can do, that a Jaguar can¦t do better --> at least give it 10 km more locking range PLZ Stiletto: Hands down the best tackler and on paper the most versatile Interceptor, but the Dmg is so pathetic it takes Hours to kill anything by yourself. It also is too slow. --> Improve the Stilettos Speed and it¦s fine Crow: quite fast because of the low mass, great locking range and 3 medslots. still low dmg but enough to kill small stuff by yourself. Raptor: everytime i meet one the result is a dead Raptor ... need i say more ? --> Split weapons layout is bad mkay ? I won¦t comment on Amarr and Gallente Interceptors as i don¦t fly them myself.
Matsuo Masato Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.20 10:32:00 - [55] then which inty is the best anti-cruiser inty? dont nerf this one its only 20kb
DarkElf Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.20 10:37:00 - [56] tbh the crow is the best inty for taking on other inties and frigs but the taranis is way better dps for hitting cruisers and upwards. It's not the best ceptor as they all have different strengths and weaknesses. I personally fly both. ranis for solo work and crow for tackling or specifically for taking out ceptors. DE
Eximius Josari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.07.20 10:48:00 - [57] Originally by: Jim McGregor Sometimes i feel everybody has alts but me in this game. Getting paranoid. My alts have alts... Click Above
Talos Darkhart	Posted - 2006.07.20 10:53:00 - [58] I can fly all 4 races ceptors and I tend to find myself in a claw. mostly this because i'm in small gangs rather than solo but I lub my claw. crow is nice but you get all overconfident and start believing your imortal if you fly one for too long. Just the other month I popped a crow in a t1 fitted catalyst not sure what he was trying to do but he pretty much flew straight at me.
Dupac Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.07.20 11:06:00 - [59] Edited by: **c on 20/07/2006 11:10:43 Already been said - but Primary advantage of the crow is the ability to stay alive - you're outside web and on the edge of scram range so it's pretty safe, certainly safer than the amarr inties (I have flown those too) that need to get a bit closer. Missiles are fire and forget ofc which is useful but.... The dps of a crow is poor - solo it's good for industrials / frigs and the odd cruiser and even then you need a bit of luck as most cruisers can tank you to the gate or just tank you all day. In gangs I mostly use something else as I'm just there to tackle so might as well use a cheaper inty. edit: meant to say - maybe I'm just odd but I normally fight in empire wars and I don't see the fascination with inty vs inty discussions - I doubt if more than 1 fight in 50 that I have is with another inty. I'm aware that 0.0 is different and inty combat is much more the norm. To the OP - if you ever find a 200dps crow that can shoot you from 50km please convo me as I'd love to see it. If you want to survive this uber crow of doom - feel free to warp out - he'd be doing well to scram you from that range...........
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.20 11:40:00 - [60] The crow is like a mini-vagabond with that speed. Imagine the Vagabond with missiles. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
madaluap Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.20 22:52:00 - [61] Originally by: Cohkka Originally by: madaluap ares can kill crows, hell yeh ares can kill anything (no sarcasm) So can the Raptor and the Stiletto. What's your point? :s No whey! _________________________________________________
xEntriq	Posted - 2006.07.23 08:10:00 - [62] The Crow isn't the best, because it can range pretty much anything with it's agility and speed. It could be the best tackler, but definately not the best dps wise.

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