And as it doesn't matter if the one side actual has a pilot at all (target) ... you can simply place a empty ship instead .... and with this it is NO PvP anymore.

IF you want to compare it with other activitys, then the one thing which comes closest is ..... Mining
Active tools against not defending and not moving target

Cant believe im responding...again...but PVP is player vs player. says nothing about if each player wants the combat, nothing about fairness, ect. just PLAYER VS PLAYER. i think ganking qualifies as that.

Just jung children and people without arguments try to TROLL about other peoples english.

BAD attampt. Get some arguments or shut up child.

Player vs Player REQUIRE that all involved partys (ganker AND victim) can do something at all.
As soon, as it is equal, if one side is a player or not, it is NO Player vs Player anymore.

"Jung children"? I'm betting you're a troll. 3/10 for seriousness.

Even trolls like you should know, that most posters don't have english as first (any many times not even as second) language.

So either you are very young, very intolerant, very ignorant, very s.... not so clever *g* .... OR (which I belive) you just have no arguments and try hardcore to troll me.

well, fail attamp for trolling

PVP = player vs player.
PVP=/= honourable fair player vs honourable fair player

While you can argue that players who seek to capitalise on an unbalanced mechanic are weak, you can not dispute the fact the ganking is a player vs player activity.

Can't belive I had to explain it the 3 time.

Player vs Player REQUIRE that all involved partys (ganker AND victim) can do something at all.
As soon, as it is equal, if one side is a player or not, it is NO Player vs Player anymore.

And as it is equal, if the target has a pilot or just an emtpy ship -> NO PvP

Simple fact.


PS: or just a MEGA FAIL balance ... the nifty thing YOU (PvP comunity) claim and cry for all day long at this forum!

You are wrong.
Player VS player requires nothing more than a character owned by a player attacks another character owned by another player. What skill level either player has, what actions either player does, what means to attack either player has, what means to defend either player has... ...all irrelevant. When a player activates an aggression module against another player PVP has occured.

You can try and explain it again if you like - it won't make you right.

Completely wrong. Arguing that ganking is PvP is what gankers use to comfort themselves. The premise of ganking is designed to preciesly NOT be pvp as it is exactly what the gankers are seaking to avoid.

Its pathetic because if any ganker even smells pvp they start running, and don't stop until they hit the docking point.

Edit: Just to qualify my post, I have flown with gankers, and I've listened to them on coms as they are "conducting their operations." I know when they are getting out of it, and I know how they think.

I agree gankers seek to avoid fair fights. Their actions are still against other players. Therefore it is player VS player (where the defender has no chance), it is still player versus player. You agree with me but refuse to see the crux.

No. A gank is not a fight. There is no fight. There is only gank.

Hence the name.

A fight is an altercation between two individuals. Doesn't mean they both engage in aggression.

And ganking is PvP. A player is shooting at a player.

no you see when you activate a module on an unwilling player he is instantly transmuted into a script

Because if it's stupid but works, it's not stupid.

GǪand it works.

Well loss of retriever isnt really such an down,

And no you cant counter ganking except staying docked all the time. Or just be alligned at 3/4 max speed all the time and hit warp every time you see something coming on grid, which will result more fun for "gankers" without sec. hit and destroyed ship. Just warping among the roids watching everyone warps off..

Chances that you get ganked however are 1:5000 if we take number of people engaged in suicide ganking vs "high sec dwellers"

Oh, I don't know about that. I've had Hulks send Hobgoblin I's at me before. Funny when they attack you like that, even though the Hulk was dead in the first volley. Kind of like a corpse attacking you with its last death spasms. Even cancelled his killrights and saved me a sec status penalty. Sweet.

If you're ganking, why on earth are you concerned about your security status ?

You don't outright say that you're concerned about it, but mentioning that is saved you a sec status penalty indicates some concern.
Saves you the time you need to get your sec status back up ? That's the only logical conclusion I can come to.

OUTLAW LIFE - THE PARTY IS NOT OVER WHEN YOU HIT -5
People think that once you're -5 (or -3.5 or whatever) you need to stop ganking and rebuild your sec status. This is not the case. All you need to do is change your MO slightly and you can continue to gank away forever. This is actually one of the most fun parts of ganking, as you throw brutix after brutix at miners and just don't give a ****.

Most people think you're done ganking once your sec status gets too low. This is not the case.

When you hit -5 (actually anywhere from -3.5 to -4.5 depending on what system you're in), things do change. About 6 seconds after you enter any grid when you are in a ship, faction police warp in to start shooting you. This includes when you're in a POS: faction police shoot through shields, just like CONCORD. This means you can no longer idle in space waiting to line up your gank. It doesn't mean you can't gank though: once you get the hang of it it's almost as easy (and more exciting: got to run from the po-po) than standard ganking.


Important things to keep in mind with the police:
1)Police jam. Weakly (5 strength) but it's there. If you get jammed during a gank, you flubbed it: fit and overheat appropriate ECCM IIs. However they're not like CONCORD: when they're on the field the gank is not over.
2)Police web, then scram. This means if they land on grid while you're aligning for warp, don't panic. However, this means you better have already started warp.
3)Police get there sooner than CONCORD. This means you need to fit a tank: you have to survive the police until CONCORD gets there. This means fit a DCII at a minimum.

The basic procedure for ganking while -5 is this:

First, you don't have the margin for error you usually do. You need a tank, and you can't set up your gank perfectly. That means you need some overkill: use a brutix instead of a thorax.

To begin, fit and insure the ship in station with your ganker. Then, TRADE (not contract: contracting voids insurance) the ship to an alt. This alt needs to either fly an Orca or be able to online all of the modules (at once - if your fit is tight on PG giving it to your alt may offline a gun). This alt flies the ship out to the pos, where it loads it into the SMA or leaves it floating in space. Undock your ganker in a pod, warp to the ship. DO NOT BOARD IT UNTIL YOU HAVE A GANK LINED UP.

Line up your gank as usual: find an oblivious mackinaw and sit next to it.

Now, board your ship and mash warp: this needs to be the FIRST thing you do. While in warp, set up your guns, tp, scram on the top row. Activate your sensor booster, overheat and activate your ECCM (just overheat both top and mid rows entirely) and then prime your guns/tp/scram. The instant you land, start locking and hit stop, launch drones. As soon as you lock, fire, then tell your drones to agress. If you're in a brutix, like you should be, you should crush them, as long as you don't get jammed (12% chance with an overheated ECCM II).

If you have an ECCM you'll still get jammed 12% of the time, nothing you can do about it (besides getting more ECCM or implants).

Also note: you're a pirate, people can pod you. They may: don't stick around after a gank. Your implants are worth more than the loot: tell your ganker to dock first then switch to your alt and scoop the loot. One idea we've batted around is set your atutopilot to one system over: when concord shows up, turn it on. Your pod should warp out as soon as your ship dies.

The best ship for -5 ganking is Mittani's Ragebrutix:
Highs: Anode neutrons/neutron IIs x7
Mids: 1 target painter, 1 warp disruptor, 2 ECCM II
Lows: 4x magstabs, 1x DCII.

This gives you a 6% chance of being jammed, and the DCII lets you finish a gank even when the faction police show up instantly.


Mittani's hard-won lessons from being -5 and getting chased around all day by the faction po-po
1. Don't **** around with Thoraxes below -5. The po-po can kill you before you get your shots off, even with a dcII. Using a Brutix (with a DCII) you can mostly ignore them.

2. Always have combat logging enabled and open during ganks so you can diagnose what went wrong - and something ~will~ go wrong as you adjust to the police.

3. Use a sensor booster with a locktime script on your brutix. You need to lock and fire on a barge quickly due to the police. This wasn't necessary before piracy.

4. Barge-only overview setting for your pirate. The less **** to misclick on during a gank attempt, the fewer flubbed ganks.

5. Some kind of Concord-clearing method - either hop into a stored velator from the GSF pos's SMA while you have a countdown aggro (very pro trick, thanks Kismeteer!) or have a throwaway alt in a velator zot an anchored GSC in one of the belts. Nothing is as frustrating as Concord guarding faggots in belts.

6. It doesn't matter much if the faction police are already in your target belt. They'll instawarp to you and begin shooting you, but you mostly don't care because you're in a Brutix now.

7. It's always better to spend the isk on t2 damage modules than deal with the shame of a flubbed gank because you tried to save a few million isk.
...more

8. Before piracy, I would lazily launch my drones before trying to lock prey. This is verrrry bad as a pirate, as seconds count. Activate ******* everything while in warp. While spamming lock and approach, launch your drones, click the concord butan, and mash your drone engage hotkey (you DO have a drone engage hotkey right? go make one). as a brutix most of your dps comes from blaster facefucking so drones are helpful but not key like with a thorax

9. drones engage hotkey ************