| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
   |
Posted - 2006.07.22 08:58:00 -
[1]
How is the 1400mm artillery dps compared to torpedoes with maxed skills? Note that im not talking alpha strike here...
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Vishnej
Demonic Retribution
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 09:12:00 -
[2]
As matari have several double-bonus ships, will need to know which ship you're talking about.
|
Xendie
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 09:15:00 -
[3]
take the ship wich can carry most 1400's as in the tempest and the one that can carry most siege launcers as in the CNR.
sadly there isnt any "navy Tempest" with 7 guns but there is a raven one.
isnt that kinda unbalanced on the part of "navy" ships to start with?
 Originally by: F'nog
This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 09:15:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Vishnej
As matari have several double-bonus ships, will need to know which ship you're talking about.
Pick the Tempest and see how the 1400's stand up vs Raven spewing torpedoes. Im hoping for artillery to do more damage here, but I dont think it will.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 09:17:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 22/07/2006 09:17:23
Originally by: Xendie
take the ship wich can carry most 1400's as in the tempest and the one that can carry most siege launcers as in the CNR.
sadly there isnt any "navy Tempest" with 7 guns but there is a raven one.
isnt that kinda unbalanced on the part of "navy" ships to start with?
I actually did check out the Tempest Fleet Issue and found out that it only has a extra medium slot, yeah. And the same powergrid/cpu as a normal tempest. 
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Nafri
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 09:34:00 -
[6]
DPS will be in favour of the raven, same for tanking
basicly, dont expect to kill much ships in artipest alone, most ships either outgank or outtank you.
From Dusk till Dawn
Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Sarmaul
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 09:39:00 -
[7]
Linkage
Just so you know, you really should be comparing the damage against a cruise missile Raven so I included that in the graph as well.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 09:40:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 22/07/2006 09:41:03
Originally by: Nafri
DPS will be in favour of the raven, same for tanking
basicly, dont expect to kill much ships in artipest alone, most ships either outgank or outtank you.
Help me understand the reasons for the Raven having both best ranged dps and tanking.
Edit: Hello Sarm, just the guy i need for this thread. 
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 09:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Linkage
Just so you know, you really should be comparing the damage against a cruise missile Raven so I included that in the graph as well.
Looking at that chart, i cant see a reason to ever use a Tempest over a Raven except for maybe alpha strikes. Help me out here.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
CaptainButts
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 09:48:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 22/07/2006 09:41:03
Originally by: Nafri
DPS will be in favour of the raven, same for tanking
basicly, dont expect to kill much ships in artipest alone, most ships either outgank or outtank you.
Help me understand the reasons for the Raven having both best ranged dps and tanking.
Edit: Hello Sarm, just the guy i need for this thread.
Because CCP has a history of furiously whacking it to the Caldari logo?
___________________________________________
if you think what a lil old bee like me posts is any official manifestation of corporate or director policies you're pretty dumb or something |
Sarmaul
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 09:54:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Sarmaul on 22/07/2006 09:55:22
Raven doesn't insta-hit, which is pretty useless in fleets.
Edit: and the only good thing about top-tier artillery is their alpha strike.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 09:57:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 22/07/2006 10:00:14
Originally by: Sarmaul
Edited by: Sarmaul on 22/07/2006 09:55:22
Raven doesn't insta-hit, which is pretty useless in fleets.
Edit: and the only good thing about top-tier artillery is their alpha strike.
I think its kind of depressing tbh. But i wont whine about it. Ill just train something else.
Edit: By the way, is there ANY weapon that can stand up to torpedo/cruise dps, long range?
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 10:03:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 22/07/2006 10:00:14
Originally by: Sarmaul
Edited by: Sarmaul on 22/07/2006 09:55:22
Raven doesn't insta-hit, which is pretty useless in fleets.
Edit: and the only good thing about top-tier artillery is their alpha strike.
I think its kind of depressing tbh. But i wont whine about it. Ill just train something else.
Edit: By the way, is there ANY weapon that can stand up to torpedo/cruise dps, long range?
No, each to their own use.
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT!
|
Matsuo Masato
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 10:03:00 -
[14]
ok who does the most damage in a 30 sec fight then?
|
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 10:05:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 22/07/2006 10:04:58
Originally by: Matsuo Masato
ok who does the most damage in a 30 sec fight then?
Cant remember. The answer you seek is who is at who's optimal. Cant remember but it might be tachyons/neutrons.
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT!
|
Achura Female
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 10:22:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Edited by: Sarmaul on 22/07/2006 09:55:22
Raven doesn't insta-hit, which is pretty useless in fleets.
Edit: and the only good thing about top-tier artillery is their alpha strike.
Useless in 200km + sniping fleets. Close to mid range fleet combat still happens, and besides, IIRC hasn't CCP stated they want to try to reduce sniperfests in upcoming patches/Kali?
|
Sarmaul
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 10:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Achura Female
Originally by: Sarmaul
Edited by: Sarmaul on 22/07/2006 09:55:22
Raven doesn't insta-hit, which is pretty useless in fleets.
Edit: and the only good thing about top-tier artillery is their alpha strike.
Useless in 200km + sniping fleets. Close to mid range fleet combat still happens, and besides, IIRC hasn't CCP stated they want to try to reduce sniperfests in upcoming patches/Kali?
In which case they damn well better give artillery a boost
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Agnar Koladrov
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 10:26:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sarmaul
In which case they damn well better give artillery a boost
QFT, atleast a capacity increase/reload decrease as a minimun
________________________________________________
Bring The Stabber in line with the other two versions. Add a fourth low. |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 10:29:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 22/07/2006 10:30:30
Originally by: Sarmaul
In which case they damn well better give artillery a boost
What if they made the rof higher so it would match the dps of missiles? Im not going to train for large projectiles if their only advantage is having a good first hit, then do lower damage than missiles for the rest of the fight. What would be the point?
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Achura Female
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 10:30:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Achura Female on 22/07/2006 10:29:57
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Achura Female
Originally by: Sarmaul
Edited by: Sarmaul on 22/07/2006 09:55:22
Raven doesn't insta-hit, which is pretty useless in fleets.
Edit: and the only good thing about top-tier artillery is their alpha strike.
Useless in 200km + sniping fleets. Close to mid range fleet combat still happens, and besides, IIRC hasn't CCP stated they want to try to reduce sniperfests in upcoming patches/Kali?
In which case they damn well better give artillery a boost
Yeah that too but I'm also concerned about the fact Caldari will be even more insane. I mean they already have the UNCONTESTED best PvE ship, why let them have a similar thing going with PvP (there shouldn't be an uncontested overall best anyway)
|
Testy Mctest
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 11:09:00 -
[21]
This is a very generalistic quote, but artillery tends to out-DPS most other weapons for the first 20-30-40 seconds of a fight, due to the alpha strike effect. Of course, that's very general, as it highly depends on what gun you're comparing it to, range, and all the rest.
To explain the alpha strike effect in simple terms:
Artillery hits for 600 dmg and fires every 10 seconds. Tempest has 6 of these.
Laser hits for 200 dmg and fires every 4 seconds. Geddon has 8 of these.
At 0 seconds : Tempest-3600dmg Geddon-1600dmg
At 10 seconds: Tempest-7200dmg Geddon-4800dmg
At 20 seconds: Tempest-10800dmg Geddon-9600dmg
At 30 seconds: Tempest-14400dmg Geddon-12800dmg
At 40 seconds: Tempest-18000dmg Geddon-19200dmg
At 50 seconds: Tempest-21600dmg Geddon-22400dmg
They're crappy numbers and totally off, but you can see how it works. Early on, the Tempest's initial shots are giving it a higher damage total; as the fight progresses, the better DPS of the lasers are starting to pull away from the artillery's poor DPS.
Missiles suffer from the reverse of this; they're out-DPSd by everything for a time until their first missiles hit, but then the superior damage and DPS of missiles kick in and stay almost constant (this is what gives the missiles their straight line effect on a DPS graph).
Scrapheap Challenge Forums! |
Brother Tycho
Shadows of the Dead
Knights Of the Southerncross
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 11:15:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Brother Tycho on 22/07/2006 11:16:37
Originally by: Testy Mctest
This is a very generalistic quote, but artillery tends to out-DPS most other weapons for the first 20-30-40 seconds of a fight, due to the alpha strike effect. Of course, that's very general, as it highly depends on what gun you're comparing it to, range, and all the rest.
To explain the alpha strike effect in simple terms:
Artillery hits for 600 dmg and fires every 10 seconds. Tempest has 6 of these.
Laser hits for 200 dmg and fires every 4 seconds. Geddon has 8 of these.
At 0 seconds : Tempest-3600dmg Geddon-1600dmg
At 10 seconds: Tempest-7200dmg Geddon-4800dmg
At 20 seconds: Tempest-10800dmg Geddon-9600dmg
At 30 seconds: Tempest-14400dmg Geddon-12800dmg
At 40 seconds: Tempest-18000dmg Geddon-19200dmg
At 50 seconds: Tempest-21600dmg Geddon-22400dmg
They're crappy numbers and totally off, but you can see how it works. Early on, the Tempest's initial shots are giving it a higher damage total; as the fight progresses, the better DPS of the lasers are starting to pull away from the artillery's poor DPS.
Missiles suffer from the reverse of this; they're out-DPSd by everything for a time until their first missiles hit, but then the superior damage and DPS of missiles kick in and stay almost constant (this is what gives the missiles their straight line effect on a DPS graph).
lol since when did the geddon have 8 turret slots. your numbers are way off anyway.
-------------[B«+tHd« T¦¦H+]-------------
åå Spreading the good word since beta åå |
Bigben
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 11:18:00 -
[23]
ok, yes the tempest is much better then the raven at around 40-50km.
reason :
tempest 6 x 1400mmt2
2 x defenders
mean sheild tank
4 gyrobs 1 rcu 1 damage control
|
Testy Mctest
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 11:20:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Brother Tycho
lol since when did the geddon have 8 turret slots. your numbers are way off anyway.
Mistyped for Apoc. It's early. Im hungover.
Read: numbers not important, demonstration of alpha strike effect is the point.
Scrapheap Challenge Forums! |
Reinala
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 11:23:00 -
[25]
Ummm... why everyone who look at that cool pictures with colorfull lines totaly forgeting that turrets have different hit quality?
Put some well aimed, excellent and perfects there...
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 11:25:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Reinala
Ummm... why everyone who look at that cool pictures with colorfull lines totaly forgeting that turrets have different hit quality?
Put some well aimed, excellent and perfects there...
You forgot misses.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Testy Mctest
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 11:26:00 -
[27]
Those graphs factor in everything to give average DPS. Read through the formulas if you ever have 6 months spare, they're quite intensive and thorough.
Scrapheap Challenge Forums! |
Reinala
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 13:09:00 -
[28]
Misses is for lazy  . But imagine that 1400mm can hit frigate up to hundreds or thousand of damage from one hit when one torpedo can what? And when?
It seems to me, that all hype about missles universality vs. turrets speciality is just a matter of knowing what you doing...
...or what you like to imagine 
to Testy: The author of that spreadsheet says: "Only hit chance is factored so far, as the formula for hit quality is not yet determined precisely;"
I tried once to count it myself, used Guristas War Installation as a target practice... roughly high quality hits was almost twice as often as low (plus the usual several percents of wrecks). It means, that real "average" DPS can be higher than normal for up to 50%... put the best alpha-stike for sauce?
|
Nafri
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 13:25:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Bigben
ok, yes the tempest is much better then the raven at around 40-50km.
reason :
tempest 6 x 1400mmt2
2 x defenders
mean sheild tank
4 gyrobs 1 rcu 1 damage control
no, totally wrong.
Tempest with 1400 II cant field a decent shield tank at all, nor are 4 damage mods usefull at all.
For a Tempest you need tracking comps or you start to miss BS around your optimal range.
Also a ravens tank is always better than a tempest tank 
From Dusk till Dawn
Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.22 13:34:00 -
[30]
I bet a fleet tempest with 1400's would lose to a vanilla raven. Thats just not funny.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |