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Master Jimrod
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Posted - 2006.07.24 11:37:00 -
[1]
Hi, I am fairly new to the game (5 weeks, 1.1mil SP) and am wondering if I have made a wise choice going Amarr.
It seems to me from other posts that everyone else does things better than Amarr (except maybe Minmatar, though they have speed).
The main advantages of Amarr seem to be armour tanking and laser weapons. From what I gather shield tanking is both more efficient that armour tanking and more effective (you have the extra buffer of armour after the shield goes after all!). Laser weapons also seem to be much less use than missiles, shorter range and optimal distances, only 2 damage types compared to longer range and no minumum with choice of damage for missiles. Also Missiles are cap free while Lasers are cap heavy.
So why choose Amarr over Caldari for example? Caldari ships have more mid slots which seem better geared for PVP too. I am not trying to bash Amarr and I realise anyone can fly any ship etc. it's just that I want to know what is the selling point of Amarr over the other races? After watching a lot of the PVP tournament Amarr seemed to have a fairly low presence which I presume will lower even further if they allow electronic warfare next time, gimping Amarr further...
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Great Artista
Thunderbolts
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Posted - 2006.07.24 11:39:00 -
[2]
Amarr have arbitrator, curse and pilgrim... Rest are broken; RIP amarr.
Ok, zealot does good job sometimes, yet amarr is broken.
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½Artista - One name. One legend.+
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.24 11:39:00 -
[3]
Honestly? Amarr T2 ships are good. BS are OK. T1 cruisers needs fixing because I dont find it funny/inefficient to use autocannons on Mallers. 
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.07.24 11:43:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Honestly? Amarr T2 ships are good. BS are OK. T1 cruisers needs fixing because I dont find it funny/inefficient to use autocannons on Mallers.
Well, most Khanid ships exept the curse have also issues, TBH. And the t2 frigates, while doing ok damage, lack too much in the flexibility department to make up for that.
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Biotide
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Posted - 2006.07.24 11:43:00 -
[5]
As with all races they have their advantages and their disadvantages. Amarr can be tough in the right hands...although they do need to be beefed up a bit, maybe reduce cap useage of lasers. Or fix it all by nerfing missiles :)
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Toy
The Scope
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Posted - 2006.07.24 11:56:00 -
[6]
Amarr have the ability to do deep space ratting with no support as lasers don't use ammo.
That means no need for a POS, blue prints to make ammo, or jumps back to a base.
Also shield tankers, if something goes wrong, will go into armor damage, so they need to dock, fit an armor repairer, and undock, and repair... An armor repairer ship is always ready to fight.
Amarr still has problems, but if you take 2 people ratting, and one runs out of ammo and then needs 20-30 minutes to dock/find ammo, the amarr always comes out on top over time... |
inSpirAcy
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.24 11:57:00 -
[7]
The only Amarrian ships I fly regularly (in PvP) are the Vengeance and Arbitrator; Geddon on the occasion I need a bit more firepower. They're not bad ships by any means. Not top of their classes against other races, perhaps, but they can more than hold their own.
The current issues with laser damage types versus regularly tanked damage types are their thorn - albeit to a much lesser degree for the Arby - but I think we'll see that fixed over time. Every race goes through a cycle of having the advantage and then the disadvantage, it's the nature of balancing a complex game. 
I would love to see something done about the Omen and Maller because, as they are, there aren't many reasons to fly them. My Arbitrator, on the other hand, kicks ass. 
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Master Jimrod
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Posted - 2006.07.24 11:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Biotide
As with all races they have their advantages and their disadvantages. Amarr can be tough in the right hands...although they do need to be beefed up a bit, maybe reduce cap useage of lasers. Or fix it all by nerfing missiles :)
Thanks for input everyone, this is what I mean though, what are the advantages? If I took an Amarr Frigate/Cruiser/Battleship etc up against the Caldari equivalent in the hands of an equally skilled (and skillpointed) player what chance would I have? I am talking one on one in a fair fight. Also against Minmantar and Gallente? I know Min can outrun my guns with the right ships from fighting Stabber NPC's. I also want to know what chance I would have of actually winning and killing them. I would have to use most of my mids on trapping equipment just to stop them getting away even if I could out-tank them.
I realise every situation is based on unmeasureable chances/fittings and outcomes but from what I can tell the Amarr seem to have things stacked against them more than the rest (Min need more skills admittedly to be effective too). Are things likely to change or am I better off aiming my skills at other races gear?
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Master Jimrod
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Posted - 2006.07.24 12:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Toy
Amarr have the ability to do deep space ratting with no support as lasers don't use ammo.
That means no need for a POS, blue prints to make ammo, or jumps back to a base.
Also shield tankers, if something goes wrong, will go into armor damage, so they need to dock, fit an armor repairer, and undock, and repair... An armor repairer ship is always ready to fight.
Amarr still has problems, but if you take 2 people ratting, and one runs out of ammo and then needs 20-30 minutes to dock/find ammo, the amarr always comes out on top over time...
Thank you :) sort of answers to my question I am looking for...
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Waut
Elite Storm Enterprises
Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.07.24 12:02:00 -
[10]
The Apoc is an excellent mining battleship 
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Franky B
Mentally Unstable Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.07.24 12:05:00 -
[11]
which I believe can be outmined by a dominix with a rack of harvesters and mining lasers :P
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Ryoka
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Posted - 2006.07.24 12:07:00 -
[12]
hmm, though i agree that marr need a little boost atm they do have advantages now.
pro:
the best tank (crystal set is nice too, but imo slave > crystal )
the most cap
2nd best damage output
flexible when it comes to ranges
2nd best with drones
cons:
quite slow (mostly)
lack of mid slots for EW (so they are susceptible to EW on their own)
and that about sums it up, in general i still think amarr are ok, they dont rock, but theyre very ok (though they still need alittle boost :P)
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.07.24 12:09:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Aramendel on 24/07/2006 12:09:29
Originally by: Toy
Amarr have the ability to do deep space ratting with no support as lasers don't use ammo.
So can gallente droneships.
And have on top the bonus that they can effeciently rat every NPC. The problem with Amarr NPCing is that Bloods and Sanshas are very easy, but Angles and Guristas are rather hard with lasers. This is not exactly a problem of the fixed damagetypes, but that the EM resistances of NPCs vary a *lot* more than the other resistances, making amarr either the by far best or the by far worst choice.
Quote:
Also shield tankers, if something goes wrong, will go into armor damage, so they need to dock, fit an armor repairer, and undock, and repair... An armor repairer ship is always ready to fight.
Thats no argument. When something goes wrong with an armor tank you get structure damage, so you need to dock, fit... Assuming you get as far. Loosing all your structure happens a lot faster than loosing all your (untanked) armor and structure.
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Andreask14
Sensus Numinis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.07.24 12:10:00 -
[14]
marr lack flexiily, not only per ship, but as a race.
Additionally to that, recent changes to game mechanics (stacking penalty, ECM) have chopped of a good chunk of their relative strength.
Amarr is easily the weakest race atm, but that might change in time.
________________________________________________
Just a quick reminder that "Local" and "Instas" will always be what they are. |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.24 12:10:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/07/2006 12:11:22
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.24 12:11:00 -
[16]
Both amarr and minmatar needs a boost in this game. People usually isnt even mentioning these two races... its all about gallente and caldari.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Brother Tycho
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.24 12:44:00 -
[17]
lasers use lots of cap have high fittings and only realy effective vs Sanshas and Bloods.
Amarr have alot of weakness to many things NOS,tracking disrupters and Ecm will put you out of a fight quickly.
Gank Geddons are paper thin and go down fast.
Apoc has poor damage for a BS unless its setup to snipe and then its paper thin again.
Who needs a Uber tanked ship floating around if it does nothing usefull all the tank in world wont save you vs 2 or more enemie BS and EW makes you a favorite for a easy take down if you setup to gank.
our t1 line up bar the Arbi is poor, maller works best with blasters.. go figure.. everything else is a waste of time.
conclusion is amarr have boring fleet only BS's and will get another one in Teir 3.
on the flip side our Recon ships are good and the Zelots ok just so long as you dont face any armour tankers.
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EreB
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Posted - 2006.07.24 12:50:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Brother Tycho
lasers use lots of cap have high fittings and only realy effective vs Sanshas and Bloods.
Amarr have alot of weakness to many things NOS,tracking disrupters and Ecm will put you out of a fight quickly.
Gank Geddons are paper thin and go down fast.
Apoc has poor damage for a BS unless its setup to snipe and then its paper thin again.
Who needs a Uber tanked ship floating around if it does nothing usefull all the tank in world wont save you vs 2 or more enemie BS and EW makes you a favorite for a easy take down if you setup to gank.
our t1 line up bar the Arbi is poor, maller works best with blasters.. go figure.. everything else is a waste of time.
conclusion is amarr have boring fleet only BS's and will get another one in Teir 3.
on the flip side our Recon ships are good and the Zelots ok just so long as you dont face any armour tankers.
Good for us? So ? what u propose?
I can propose to u " GO caldari/minnie/gallente" its that simple :-)
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.24 13:31:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Franky B
which I believe can be outmined by a dominix with a rack of harvesters and mining lasers :P
According to my calculations, not so.... and this is factoring in mining upgrades.
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Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour
FREE |
Brother Tycho
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.24 13:50:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Brother Tycho on 24/07/2006 13:51:56
Originally by: EreB
Originally by: Brother Tycho
lasers use lots of cap have high fittings and only realy effective vs Sanshas and Bloods.
Amarr have alot of weakness to many things NOS,tracking disrupters and Ecm will put you out of a fight quickly.
Gank Geddons are paper thin and go down fast.
Apoc has poor damage for a BS unless its setup to snipe and then its paper thin again.
Who needs a Uber tanked ship floating around if it does nothing usefull all the tank in world wont save you vs 2 or more enemie BS and EW makes you a favorite for a easy take down if you setup to gank.
our t1 line up bar the Arbi is poor, maller works best with blasters.. go figure.. everything else is a waste of time.
conclusion is amarr have boring fleet only BS's and will get another one in Teir 3.
on the flip side our Recon ships are good and the Zelots ok just so long as you dont face any armour tankers.
Good for us? So ? what u propose?
I can propose to u " GO caldari/minnie/gallente" its that simple :-)
I fly a Pilgrim for pvp so i get round fiting lasers, for NPC i sold my soul and fly a Raven its the smart thing to do.
Amarr Dread is a good ship though its got a good tank for poping POS's.
best option i can offer a new player is train caldari.
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DarkElf
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.24 14:27:00 -
[21]
Ok Apoc is a great complexing ship if you do drone complexes. geddon is one of the best fleet ships for short range that there is and almost always grabs top of the killmails. curse and pilgrim are questionably the best recon ships and i'd say pilgrim is best solo pirating ship in game. the af's are ok. arbitrator is a decent cruiser for ecm/nos/drones setups. Oh and the zealot is not the best hac but is a huge damage dealer.
They also get great advantages like no ammo (unless u use t2 crystals like me but they last ages). and u can change ur crystals in an instant altering range/damage.
Yeah amarr have there problems bu i think i've pointed out why amarr is still not a bad choice.
DE
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Brother Tycho
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.24 14:50:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Brother Tycho on 24/07/2006 14:53:05
Geddons usualy get called primary first unless theres a scorp in the mix.
a raven with a mix of cruise and torps is more effective for any kinda of complex as you can use any dmg type from any range and never miss.
running missions and complexes in Apoc takes forever a phoon or domi are better anyway.
t2 ammo costs more for lasers, compair the price of 1000 shots of other t2 ammo and the cost of a t2 crystal as t2 crystals last for a max of about 1000 shots.
loseing a geddon with 100mill fittings and 70 mill of ammo is priceless.
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Benglada
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.07.24 15:00:00 -
[23]
Your not comparing amarr to the rest of the races, your comparing amarr to caldari..... which everyone loses (except gal in some cases)
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Originally by: Wrangler
Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote.. 
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.24 15:14:00 -
[24]
I find amarr ships more than efficient. Only amarr ships I can't fly on my alt is the logistics, hacs ( 1 week away ), Command ships, and combat oriented capital ships. All of which I am skilling for.
Not only are the ships satisfactory, but the Ni Kunni and Khanid bloodlines are really well balanced.
Team Minmatar
Carriers need Clone Vats
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Stephar
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.24 15:36:00 -
[25]
The main issue with Amarr is EM/thermal resists. You can basically forget about NPC'ing against Angels & Guristas (unless you are into the whole self-torture thing), and your damage will struggle against any sort of armor tanking setup (which most ships tend to use). It's possible that Amarr will get reevaluated... but who knows.
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Lenaria
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Posted - 2006.07.24 15:47:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Lenaria on 24/07/2006 15:47:56
Ok, you all complain about Amarr lacking in EW department... of course, compared to Caldari they are lacking. But if you compare it to Gallente... Apoc vs Mega ... same slot layout, close damage where Megathron is somethat better at extremely close ranges and Apoc have better flexebility other range. In average gate camp where you need to shot from 15-20 km Apoc actually do higher damage than Megathron or Tempest.
And, while Ammar lacking EW versus Caldari, Ammar ships are still vastly better in fleet battles. Even Scorps are not so great once you routinely starts to use ECCM and backaup arrays.
So, i'd say: if you want PvP - Ammar will do just as good as other races. May be slightly worse if you want to do it solo, but i dont know many ppls who succesfully PvP solo, espeaceally in BS's. But if you want mainly PvE, then go Caldari no questions. Nothing can be compared to Raven.
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.24 15:51:00 -
[27]
We are the only race that flies Cylon Raiders.
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Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
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Miri Tirzan
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.24 15:57:00 -
[28]
Look anyone that has been playing this game for a while will tell you that all races are good for a while, get nerfed, and then later on get unnerfed and are good again. It cycles and that is just the way it is.
Now, I fly Apoc for missions. There is not much I cannot kill but then I also have T2 fittings and weapons and while I cannot carry much for drones, my 6+ million SP in them means that they hit hard too. I have not found much that I cannot kill though I will admit, some Gurstas are a pain... 20 minutes to break a tank sucks, but then I am in no danger of losing my ship either. The armor tank on an Apoc is a joy to behold.
So while Amarr is not the flavor of the week now... they have been and will be again. (before they are nerfed, again)
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Murukan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.24 16:02:00 -
[29]
They are amazing at whining, almost up there with caldari
In rust we trust!!! |
Brother Tycho
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.24 16:17:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Brother Tycho on 24/07/2006 16:20:02
Originally by: Lenaria
Edited by: Lenaria on 24/07/2006 15:47:56
Ok, you all complain about Amarr lacking in EW department... of course, compared to Caldari they are lacking. But if you compare it to Gallente... Apoc vs Mega ... same slot layout, close damage where Megathron is somethat better at extremely close ranges and Apoc have better flexebility other range. In average gate camp where you need to shot from 15-20 km Apoc actually do higher damage than Megathron or Tempest.
And, while Ammar lacking EW versus Caldari, Ammar ships are still vastly better in fleet battles. Even Scorps are not so great once you routinely starts to use ECCM and backaup arrays.
So, i'd say: if you want PvP - Ammar will do just as good as other races. May be slightly worse if you want to do it solo, but i dont know many ppls who succesfully PvP solo, espeaceally in BS's. But if you want mainly PvE, then go Caldari no questions. Nothing can be compared to Raven.
Blasterthron will pwn a Apoc if the fight starts under 30 km
it will get under the tracking to fast and lasers bounce of armour tanks if the fights starts long range the Apoc pilots a fool not to warp off.
Not to mention the Megathrons huge drone bay so web drones will only buy you a few moments.
Blaster dmg out put will rip through any tank close range.
Geddon has a better chance imo and then its a ***** fight over who has the highest DPS.
Apoc has one role in pvp long range fleet Sniper with t2s.
Its great for mining though thats were its slight edge over other BS tanks is most usefull.
Not to mention our low sensor strenth.
The fact Gal get the Domi more than makes up for the Megathrons Apoc clone slots layout.
Anyone who says a tracking bonus sucks needs to be shot
Heres how i would fix Lasers Drop there rate of Fire 50% and change the 10% Cap use per lvl to 10% Dmg per lvl.
if lasers are fireing 50% slower there useing 50% less cap per second so the stupid Bonus can be changed and yes this would also go some way towards t2 crystal balance as each shot fired is more bang for your buck, 1600mm users likely use half the t2 ammo of other turret ships.
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