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Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.07.27 01:52:00 - [31] Jaabaa Prime, Again, right now it burns the strontium then comes out. The attack has been at the attackers prime time. Now, it comes out at the DEFENDERS prime time, and they have a fixed window of 6 hours to attack it, after which it can enter reinforced again. "The same amount of time" can't work, because that leaves the POS vulnrable when they have nobody online and is basically a guaranteed loss of the POS.
Jaabaa Prime Dental Drilling Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.07.27 08:47:00 - [32] I see where you are coming from now. "The defenders adjust the stront levels for it to come out when they want it to but then it can't re-enter reinforced for a fixed period of 6 hours after leaving reinforced mode." It very similar to what I'm suggesting but with the difference that the time is fixed at 6 hours. As I see it, reinforced should only be a stop gap measure allowing the owners to get a fleet together to defend the POS. The beauty of the "same time" solution is that the owners can still decide when the POS comes out of reinforced mode but have to defend the POS without the reinforced option for an equal duration of time. A few examples: a) POS is attacked on a Saturday evening and the owners set it up to come out of reinforced mode on the Monday morning before DT (~34 hours). The POS will be without strontium until Tuesday afternoon. The attackers have the whole of Monday evening to take out the POS and the defenders have to be there to stop it. b) POS is attacked on a Tuesday evening and the owners set it up to come out of reinforced mode on the Wednesday morning before DT (~10 hours). The attackers only have a very small window of opertunity before the POS can be refilled with strontium and have to destroy it in that time, which may or may not be in the aggressors prime time. The owners only have to be there 10 hours defending the POS (9 if you take off the 1 hour DT). -- Mini Skill Planner
Laboratus Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 08:58:00 - [33] The system as it is today makes playing the game possible, while still having a Real Life. If the system was changed according to the OP s proposal, you really would have to put 8h days into eve just to get anything done. While it would be nice to see more dedication, this borders the lines of game addiction. Mind control and tin hats
Jaabaa Prime Dental Drilling Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.07.27 11:12:00 - [34] Originally by: Laboratus The system as it is today makes playing the game possible, while still having a Real Life. If the system was changed according to the OP s proposal, you really would have to put 8h days into eve just to get anything done. While it would be nice to see more dedication, this borders the lines of game addiction. It would only require dedication from combat pilots if you are serious about keeping a POS and/or sovereignty, and not just require a remote shield booster and fuel. -- Mini Skill Planner
Anara Serraph UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:03:00 - [35] Originally by: Laboratus The system as it is today makes playing the game possible, while still having a Real Life. That depends entirely on your point of view lets say I have a POS you wish to destroy and you attack it in your prime time lets say 22:00 eve time and you are in the same timezone as the server so you are going to be going to bed soon as you have work tomorrow at 09:00 eve time, but as you entered the system to take the POS I put enough strontium in it to bring it out of reinfored mode at 04:00 eve time, at which point im more than prepered to log on and boost the POS's shield and refuel it negating your hard work. this leaves you with the choice do you stay up/wake up early so as to be there to finish the POS off and be tired all day tomorrow at work, or do you waste a Rest Day/Sick Day on a Computer Game, or do you just forget it go to bed and go to work the next day thinking how boring POS wars really are? As im sure you see the problem with the current system is that the defender can exploit the fact that you have to go to work tomorrow and while thats ok for the people who dont have to go to work for those of us who do there has to be a solution (other than syaing up all night and going to wotk tired)
UAxDEATH The xDEATHx Squadron	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:22:00 - [36] CCP how about to change whole f game for -lv-???? than for bob??? Why not ??? How they saying ??? they have no fun ??? But i`m wonder, how often you`ll have to change this game ??
Evil Thug Rage and Terror	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:23:00 - [37] RA = 900 pilots. 50 real people. Coalition = 8000 pilots. How many people you have ? You are unable to destroy red alliance using in-game methods, despite outnumbering them 9 : 1. Ofc, you decided to WHINE. Whining > everything in eve. Amarr whined and received Abaddon, for example. RA ppl using alarm clock to get up in 4 a.m. You want to stay casual, and still win in this game. NO. Rage and Terror - making people quit EVE.
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:33:00 - [38] Originally by: Jaabaa Prime I see where you are coming from now. "The defenders adjust the stront levels for it to come out when they want it to but then it can't re-enter reinforced for a fixed period of 6 hours after leaving reinforced mode." It very similar to what I'm suggesting but with the difference that the time is fixed at 6 hours. Yes. Heck, 6 for large towers, 8 for med and 10 for small, making it FAR easier to defend over time the larger tower, as well as it being tougher. Yes, it could be used to dump the vulnrability window into an obscure timezone area, but then that makes say a corp of Aussies ideal for POSbusting that alliance's POS and they WON'T be able to deal with them...
Metara Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 13:25:00 - [39] Edited by: Metara on 27/07/2006 13:25:02 LOL Lotka Volterra & Co can't beat "dead" Red Alliance in fair POS wars... So they've decided to change the rules... LOL
Minevra	Posted - 2006.07.27 13:45:00 - [40] We have not so many pilots thats why: 1. No more then 50 pilots of each side can be in the system while the pos/station is under siedge. 2. We can control POS firing so it can consantrate fire on 1-2 targets. 3. Blobs of 70+ pilots are forbiden. 4. If 2+ stationary/interdictor warp distruptor bubbles in a grid they don't work. 5. Gate camping with 20+ people is illigal. P.S. I want a GOD mode
Zarch AlDain The Blackwater Brigade HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2006.07.27 13:57:00 - [41] POS weapons should go offline while it is in reinforced. That way if the carrier tries that trick it is vulnerable to attack from the people who put the POS in reinforced. Zarch AlDain The Blackwater Brigade Huzzah Federation
BrerLapin Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 14:33:00 - [42] Yeah it kinda riles me that the POS is not only invulnerable in re-inforced but it can blat you out the sky. At least make the guns tragettable so they can be picked off byt eh dreads, whilst teh pos is in reinforced. Originally by: Market Scanner Maybe CCP needs to remove all 3D models of NPC's and replace them with white 2D squares with the NPC's name typed in the square. I miss pong.
Papa Digger REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:18:00 - [43] I can say only one.. LOL. "If we can beat them using rules, we change rules". (c) LV. From feature list Exodus. "With the introduction of player owned Starbases, EVE will become a game of true territorial conquest, even more so than the introduction of Player Conquerable Stations. Not expensive to build, but costly to operate " Territory cost money! If u want to own territory, PAY for it.. if u want to claim sov, you need very much money and hard work to support towers. If you don't want to support your POSes it is YOUR problem! Not game mechanic. Wanna claim? Set up L POSes, and keep it online! If you don't want expences, then you don't need this territory. And stop crying. ---- CEO.
Atlus Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:56:00 - [44] wooohooo! dear CCP, I want a bycicle, a box of cookies and some **** movies :D
SephiriotH REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.27 17:34:00 - [45] instead of making some POS adjustments , I would like to see an improvement of dreads a lot , at least against battleships , as they are now nothing more than actually big **tty mobile sentry guns . Remember : with a good torpedo and bad word You can hurt much more than with bad word alone.
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.07.27 17:37:00 - [46] Yes, because boring people out of 0.0 is a good strategy at present. Literally.
Kha1n Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 18:39:00 - [47] Originally by: Minevra We have not so many pilots thats why: 1. No more then 50 pilots of each side can be in the system while the pos/station is under siedge. 2. We can control POS firing so it can consantrate fire on 1-2 targets. 3. Blobs of 70+ pilots are forbiden. 4. If 2+ stationary/interdictor warp distruptor bubbles in a grid they don't work. 5. Gate camping with 20+ people is illigal. P.S. I want a GOD mode +1 Agree P.S. LoLka Coalition just ROFL
Obivan Efa The Machines	Posted - 2006.07.27 18:53:00 - [48] LOLKA Coalition Funny name and to a T! Why u ask so complicated things? Ask for urself at once a big round red "I WIN" button in game menu. Clicking on it will make u instant winner. Ahahahahahaha kiddy coalition! Suck more lollipops with sugar - sugar will help ur brain work better. ____________________________ Die, but croak! - viking's war-cry
Ellaine TashMurkon Em Pack HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2006.07.27 19:19:00 - [49] Edited by: Ellaine TashMurkon on 27/07/2006 19:19:03 Vodka LOLterra is a nice abbreviation. But outside of that, LV is the coolest alliance name I know :) (But we are more exciting, barely surviving all the time is so much fun, like in heroic movies ;)

Santiago Cortes	Posted - 2006.07.27 20:23:00 - [50] Thread Cleaned This is a discussion forum, kindly take the sabre rattling elsewhere. forum rules \| mailto:mods@

BrerLapin Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 22:45:00 - [51] I also find it odd a POS cant be dropped in re-inforced mode. Why cant a POS buster be deployed that uses stontium to drain the shield out. Speeding up the decay of the reinforced mode. Originally by: Market Scanner Maybe CCP needs to remove all 3D models of NPC's and replace them with white 2D squares with the NPC's name typed in the square. I miss pong.
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.07.27 22:49:00 - [52] Becsuse then you get to drop it at YOUR primetime, not theirs, and they've automagically lost it. That's not good.
Jaabaa Prime Dental Drilling Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:00:00 - [53] The idea behind reinforced mode is to give the POS owners a chance to assemble a fleet to defend it. Something that you don't have to do if you time it so that a POS come out of reinforced just before downtime and then refill it with strontium. -- Mini Skill Planner
Pastora Russian SOBR Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:41:00 - [54] The better system would be if the attacker gets his friends on all his 20 alts in the system in question and types word CLAIM more times than the opponent, then he automatically claims the station, and adjusting systems. _______________________________________________ If ifs and ands were pots and pans, I would grow mushrooms in my pants.
Kenichi	Posted - 2006.07.28 01:46:00 - [55] Originally by: Jaabaa Prime Edited by: Jaabaa Prime on 25/07/2006 00:19:40 Because of what I've been seeing while the southern coalition have been combating RA in Insmother I am left sitting here with a bitter taste in my mouth. The issue that I have with the current system is that the owners of POSs can micro-manage the strontium in the POS while it is being sieged so that comes out of reinforced mode at a time of their choosing, basically making a mockery of a far larger force. They are capable of doing this by jumping in dreads and carriers when most people aren't online and sleeping and boosting the shields of the POSs above 50% allowing them to be refueled. It is my understanding that the reason for a POS having a reinforced mode was to allow the owners to assemble a defensive force to deal with any aggressors, not to make sure that the aggressors are not online when the POS comes out of reinforced mode, and then doing that every day for a week. Now having explained the situation, I would like to propose a simple change that IMHO would be good a good all round and balanced solution. When a POS enters reinforced mode it can't be refueled with strontium for twice that period of time. So if you have enough strontium for 5 hours it will be 10 hours before you can load strontium into the POS (i.e. a further 5 hours after it comes out of reinforced mode). The longer it's in reinforced mode, the longer its vulnerable to an attack after it leaves reinforced mode. During the POS recovery period the owners would have to have a fleet there to defend it if they want to keep it. From the point of the RP aspect of the game, this could be put down to a structure regeneration duration which is equal to the time that the strontium was being used to harden the structure, molecular regeneration or something. lol Attackers choose time when to attack POS and can remove 75% of shield without any resistance from defenders. Defenders can choose time to protect, but begins only with 25% of shield. All is balanced. About what you crying?
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.07.28 02:02:00 - [56] Originally by: Jaabaa Prime The idea behind reinforced mode is to give the POS owners a chance to assemble a fleet to defend it. Something that you don't have to do if you time it so that a POS come out of reinforced just before downtime and then refill it with strontium. DT would be a "null time" within that period in which nothing happened, of course. Even make it add an hour to the timer. And if you do that, then say mercenaries in the right timezone will have a field day popping the POS which your fleet put into reinforced last night. After a few of THOSE, they'll try and make the window reasonable and defensible.
Obivan Efa The Machines	Posted - 2006.07.28 05:26:00 - [57] I think that defenders should have more possibilities in diverse defence tactics that they have now... New POS defencive mode - bonus to resists, recharge rate, POS's turrets DMG and so on, but much wasteful in resource use. POS normal mode - no bonuses and no penalties POS economic mode - less recharge rate, less resists, less DMG, but less resources use to operate New defencive structures available for construction in ur calim system. Near gate/station/free space turrets, warp traps, mine fields and so on. Even players owned (hired) NPC defenders. If attackers uses capitals in defender cliamed space then their capital ships should get some penalty - extra resource spendings. ____________________________ Die, but perish! - viking's war-cry
Cail Fortestan M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.07.28 09:33:00 - [58] Originally by: Roddic the attacker should have absolutly no idea how long reinforced mode will last. unless they have a spy in defending corp. the pos could have 200 or 200000+ strontium clathrates left, and the ability to use them as it sees fit (survival mode). You have fallen into the trap here (and below) that is the specific prbolme with POS warfare. The ATTACKER in the case of POS wars is the alliance putting up new POSs to try and take sovreignty. The DEFENDER is the alliance with the current sovreignty and the station. It should be possible for the DEFENDER who has sovreignty and owns the station to protect itself better against a timezone tactic. Originally by: Roddic if you really want to reduce the number of pos's increase there price by a factor of 10 or more. geeze if they where really expensive people might even decide to put in an effort for a defensive force. Er, they have tried this already. Of course some alliances bought large numbers of Large POSs as a stockpile before the price went up, giving them an unfair advantage. Originally by: Roddic the defender has the right to defend as they see fit, no matter how much it upsets the attacker, a bit like the attacker has the right to shoot at what ever they want. Agreed, but again, you have the roles reversed. The DEFENDER is the Station owner, not the guy in the indy sneaking in and popping up some POSs just before dt or micromanaging the POS strontium so that it suits his timezone. My understanding is that the reinforced mode was intended to give the POS owner time to defend the POS. That is not what it does now, so the game mechanics need to be fixed. -- M. Corp.
Obivan Efa The Machines	Posted - 2006.07.28 10:03:00 - [59] I can't understand Lolka Volterra's demands? TimeZone is equal advantage and disadvantage for both sides. But if Coalition with 5000+ members from different countries can't cover 800 member Allaince of players from 1 country (most all of them from one time zone) then I don't know... Maybe u should play counter strike with 5 min rounds? I don't see the point in this demands in solving POS war conditions. POS war is a strategic positional war that brings a lot of diversity in combat operation types.. Convoying, escorts, logistical strikes, blockades, guarella, siege, counterattacks, assaults.... various fleet operations. Diversity is always good... Suggestions of Lolka Volterra will decrease the diversity of possible combat operations thats not good. ____________________________ Die, but perish! - viking's war-cry
Karl Shade FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.07.28 12:25:00 - [60] Originally by: Obivan Efa I can't understand Lolka Volterra's demands? TimeZone is equal advantage and disadvantage for both sides. But if Coalition with 5000+ members from different countries can't cover 800 member Allaince of players from 1 country (most all of them from one time zone) then I don't know... Maybe u should play counter strike with 5 min rounds? I don't see the point in this demands in solving POS war conditions. POS war is a strategic positional war that brings a lot of diversity in combat operation types.. Convoying, escorts, logistical strikes, blockades, guarella, siege, counterattacks, assaults.... various fleet operations. Diversity is always good... Suggestions of Lolka Volterra will decrease the diversity of possible combat operations thats not good. Don¦t try to make this an LV thing. Our war with RA has given us an intensive lesson in the intricacies of POS warfare. The micromanagement allows a small number of players with sufficient supplies to lock sov in a system nearly indefenately. POS warfare atm is static and constricting. Not attributes generally conductive to diversity. -

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