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clearly lasers are a dying weapon.......

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Alextras Tesla	Posted - 2006.07.26 05:18:00 - [1] with the new bonuses released for the the tier 3 amarr bs it clear that if you fit lasers, your cap is going to pay and therefor your tank is not going to be any good. i understand that this is probably the piont, forcing you to choose between damage or tank. however by fitting weapons that do not use cap (projectiles) it is posible to fit a ship with both good damage and a great tank. so whats the piont in fitting lasers anymore? what would you fit? lasers with a fast rate of fire but no tank at all? or projectiles that do considerable damage and a tank to be reconed with?
Kyguard LFC 3rd Front Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.26 05:23:00 - [2] The way lasers were made in that they require the cap reduction bonus seems to be backfiring since it severely limits the versatility of their ships. And the Abbadon will prove after becoming cap dry in 1-2 minutes of firing on a ganksetup that lasers simply can't function without their cap reduction bonus. However, add the cap reduction bonus instead of the other boni and the ships becomes either useless or makes one of the other tiers completely useless. === God is on the side with the best arti
Alextras Tesla	Posted - 2006.07.26 05:28:00 - [3] so you agree? confused....
Kyguard LFC 3rd Front Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.26 05:32:00 - [4] Not a dying weapon, but the Abbadon clearly isn't helping with the situation. === God is on the side with the best arti
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.26 05:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Kyguard Not a dying weapon, but the Abbadon clearly isn't helping with the situation. It's already been shown that even under dificult conditions, an Abaddon has at least 340 seconds (5x58) of sustained fire in it. If it has a sizeable cargo hold, that'll easily become 400 seconds. No single fight lasts that long, and the resupply problem is the exact same as every other injector-based ship - and not a really big deal. The lack of a cap reduction bonus only really makes Tachyons difficult to use - but if you think 8 Tachs with cap reduction and a damage bonus are a brilliant idea, you might want to get your head checked :)
Alextras Tesla	Posted - 2006.07.26 05:43:00 - [6] not asking for a change.....i think the bonuses are good. just pionting out the fact that lasers need a boost (more damage types) if they are going to be used at all. in pvp anyway.
Sonic Buddha	Posted - 2006.07.26 05:52:00 - [7] And there usefullness is even worse when nos comes into play.
Apertotes Nuevos Horizontes	Posted - 2006.07.26 05:53:00 - [8] well, have you seen the dps graphics? abbadon outshines any other BS by a long shot on almost any range until 130 km. and second best is... Armaggeddon. i guess that for that kind of damage lasers need to give something on exchange. also, amarr BS have more low slots than any minmatar, so even if projectiles use no cap, they have less slots to tank. and dont get me started on projectile's tracking... in the end, we'll have to wait and see how the new BS turn out, but it seems to me quite balanced. Apertotes, the Guybrush Threepwood of New Eve
Lygos ISS Navy Task Force	Posted - 2006.07.26 05:53:00 - [9] Give it a cap booster efficiency bonus along with RoF bonus, and it can still do one or the other roles very well. God told me you should do this.
Shugo Kazuma	Posted - 2006.07.26 06:45:00 - [10] Lasers need to be looked over really, at least somewhat. It's one thing to use bonuses, cap and fitting requirements to help limit the usefulness of another race's weapons on a ship. But it's really something else to have one so lopsided that other races are unable to even make use of the weapons altogether.
Stanis Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.26 06:53:00 - [11] Oh no they dont. They need maybe a 5-10% dmg mod increse otherwise they are fine. Learn to use the damn boosters you have enough slots. There will be old school ammar Battlships Pilots pwning hard with this ship. I am scared .
Xendie	Posted - 2006.07.26 06:56:00 - [12] Originally by: Kyguard Not a dying weapon, but the Abbadon clearly isn't helping with the situation. precisely. i do fear that our esteemed dev in charge of fixing the ships in eve has expended his best efforts. Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Grimpak Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.26 07:46:00 - [13] Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Originally by: Kyguard Not a dying weapon, but the Abbadon clearly isn't helping with the situation. It's already been shown that even under dificult conditions, an Abaddon has at least 340 seconds (5x58) of sustained fire in it. If it has a sizeable cargo hold, that'll easily become 400 seconds. ok let's make this clear: How the hell you know it will only last for at least 340 seconds if you haven't seen the cap of the ship yet? ...maybe the ship will have one of those gigantic cap that will shadow anything bar a capital ship's cap, and able to sustain a mega tank setup or a mega gank setup, but not both. geez... these "OMG ABBADON CAN'T HOLD HIS GUNZ FIRING CUZ THE GUNS CONSUME TOO MUCH CAP!!!!111omgeleven" posts are unfounded atm with the information that was released. it's like saying that that lemon tree will give turnips, while in fact it is an orange tree that will give out oranges. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
TuRtLe HeAd Apocalypse Enterprises	Posted - 2006.07.26 07:53:00 - [14] Its great, The ships aren't even on the TEST server and people are whinging.
Grimpak Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.26 07:55:00 - [15] Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd Its great, The ships aren't even on the TEST server and people are whinging. now you do understand why Tux doesn't post here as much as before.... ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Rodj Blake Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.26 09:43:00 - [16] Originally by: Stanis Learn to use the damn boosters you have enough slots. Amarr ships have the lowest number of mid slots of all the the races. The Abaddon may end up with just three of them. With one of those being forced to be used on a booster, it will be left with two. Would you fly a 150m ISK battleship with just two mid slots? Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
TuRtLe HeAd Apocalypse Enterprises	Posted - 2006.07.26 09:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Rodj Blake Would you fly a 150m ISK battleship with just two mid slots? If it had 8 Turret or missile highs and 8 Lows , Yes in a shot.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 09:47:00 - [18] Originally by: Apertotes well, have you seen the dps graphics? abbadon outshines any other BS by a long shot on almost any range until 130 km. and second best is... Armaggeddon. i guess that for that kind of damage lasers need to give something on exchange. also, amarr BS have more low slots than any minmatar, so even if projectiles use no cap, they have less slots to tank. and dont get me started on projectile's tracking... in the end, we'll have to wait and see how the new BS turn out, but it seems to me quite balanced. Exacly. And if that kind of dps came with a good tank as well, it would be overpowered. People will fit projectiles on this ship to be able to tank as well, and i expect this one to become quite common at the gates. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Emeline Cabernet Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.26 09:48:00 - [19] Originally by: Apertotes well, have you seen the dps graphics? abbadon outshines any other BS by a long shot on almost any range until 130 km. and second best is... Armaggeddon. i guess that for that kind of damage lasers need to give something on exchange. also, amarr BS have more low slots than any minmatar, so even if projectiles use no cap, they have less slots to tank. and dont get me started on projectile's tracking... in the end, we'll have to wait and see how the new BS turn out, but it seems to me quite balanced. would that be the graphs with tachyon vs 1400 and 425? or the ones with mega beam?
Etherios Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.26 09:52:00 - [20] PLZ dont use Lasers PLZZZZZZZZZ its a dead weapon its USELESS its its DEAD PLZZZZZZZZZ Stay away from the dead let CCP keep lasers DEAD we dont need u to use them .... Let us peons use it so u can kill us faster .... BTW to the OP, the end is not here u can still survive this trust me all u have to do is stay AWAY from lasers Trust me they are not good for u... but after the ships gets in game ... PLZ i dont want to see u WHINE omg nerf it ... True sight isn't given to all that look for it.
Deja Thoris Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.26 10:35:00 - [21] Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd Its great, The ships aren't even on the TEST server and people are whinging. QFT. Although if anything can be commented on validly its the number of midslots on the amarr bs. It's my biggest gripe. It makes for very uninspiring fitting choices.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.07.26 10:49:00 - [22] You people.... lasers have: the best tracking the best raw DPS the ability to instaswitch optimal you get high cap use, but your ships get cap use bonuses. Much the same way as Minmatar DPS sucks, we use no cap, and we get damage bonuses. See the pattern? Ships tend to compensate weaknesses. Now you have a ship that can do awesome armageddon-style DPS except better, AND have higher resists so it's a tough nut to ***** in fleet fights. A passively tanked one of these with gankafittings is pretty strong. And that's just off the top of my head. Really, you complain about your race being a one trick pony for so long, now you get something different and you complain. Scrapheap Challenge Forums!
tookar	Posted - 2006.07.26 11:09:00 - [23] Ever tried fitting small and medium sized beam lasers? The ability to instswitch optimals isnt much good if you can still only fire 1/3 of every other guns optimal cos your using crappy pulse lasers . Oh and pulse lasers get you in nos range and nos = no lasers :/ yeah i know i can nos too but basically this means amarr cruisers/frigs have absolutely no chance vs any drone boat out there and any one who can fit more nos than then . Hell when factional warfare comes out it wouldnt surprise me to see ac boats using neyts instead of nos and totally owning amarr . Amarr bs = good for sniping with no tank - gee thanks . Suppose i better go and fit another uber geddon for bait which will get jammed first and can do no jamming of its own .
Electric Cucumber Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.26 11:19:00 - [24] noobs
Shaemell Buttleson Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.26 11:26:00 - [25] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Originally by: Kyguard Not a dying weapon, but the Abbadon clearly isn't helping with the situation. It's already been shown that even under dificult conditions, an Abaddon has at least 340 seconds (5x58) of sustained fire in it. If it has a sizeable cargo hold, that'll easily become 400 seconds. ok let's make this clear: How the hell you know it will only last for at least 340 seconds if you haven't seen the cap of the ship yet? ...maybe the ship will have one of those gigantic cap that will shadow anything bar a capital ship's cap, and able to sustain a mega tank setup or a mega gank setup, but not both. geez... these "OMG ABBADON CAN'T HOLD HIS GUNZ FIRING CUZ THE GUNS CONSUME TOO MUCH CAP!!!!111omgeleven" posts are unfounded atm with the information that was released. it's like saying that that lemon tree will give turnips, while in fact it is an orange tree that will give out oranges. This is the most spot on post in the whole thread so far! STFU allready about what the ships may or may not be!
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.07.26 11:54:00 - [26] Not saying that "lasers are a dying weapon" (although at a disadvantage vs EAN2 tanks) or that the abaddon is crap, but... Originally by: Testy Mctest You people.... lasers have: the best tracking the best raw DPS the ability to instaswitch optimal - best longrange tracking, worst shortrange tracking - best longrange raw dps, but on the BS lvl the highest resistances vs our damage types - instaswitch optimal, but also low falloffs, so we have to switch often. Also, the only race which does only deal one damagetype at long range. Quote: you get high cap use, but your ships get cap use bonuses. Slightly more max cap. But about the same cap recharge values. Quote: Really, you complain about your race being a one trick pony for so long, now you get something different and you complain. The only "different" thing of the Abaddon is that it is the first BS which will need to use cap charges as "ammo". A blasterthron also needs this to some extend, but nowhere near what the aba will need. Yes, abas stats are not known, but I kinda doubt it will have that a massive cap & recharge rate compared to the arma/apoc that it will make a difference. It's really easy just to look at the side which suits one instead on the whole picture, isn't it?
Grimpak Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.26 11:57:00 - [27] Originally by: Aramendel The only "different" thing of the Abaddon is that it is the first BS which will need to use cap charges as "ammo". A blasterthron also needs this to some extend, but nowhere near what the aba will need. Yes, abas stats are not known, but I kinda doubt it will have that a massive cap & recharge rate compared to the arma/apoc that it will make a difference. ...how do you know that? ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:13:00 - [28] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Aramendel The only "different" thing of the Abaddon is that it is the first BS which will need to use cap charges as "ammo". A blasterthron also needs this to some extend, but nowhere near what the aba will need. Yes, abas stats are not known, but I kinda doubt it will have that a massive cap & recharge rate compared to the arma/apoc that it will make a difference. ...how do you know that? ...read my last sentence.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:31:00 - [29] Originally by: Aramendel It's really easy just to look at the side which suits one instead on the whole picture, isn't it? Im really not for or against Amarr; I'm for game balance. I spend and have spent a lot of time both looking at and running numbers, and testing ships in real situations, from Bombers to Battleships. I've never found lasers to be in need of a buff or a nerf as far as battleships go. As far as Amarr as a whole go, some of their smaller ships need changing to accomodate some lasers and their dodgy fittings - but lasers themselves are fine. Also, why are people talking about the Abaddon as if it's a fully tank, full guns ship? It's not. It can do so much more than that. It can fit an uber tank, or it can fit an uber amount of guns. Or it can fit a lot of guns, with damage mods, and gain a ton from it's passive resist bonuses by using plates. It has a lot of versatility, despite what some of you 'experts' may think. Really, if what's in the blog is right, I think you need to stop worrying. [center] Originally by: Lord Violent EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid being catered to by devs, as they lack ability to kill/survive anything. http://tinyurl.com/lgpnsScraphe
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:41:00 - [30] Originally by: Testy Mctest Im really not for or against Amarr; I'm for game balance. Then stop listening only the advantages or make it seem that an advantage in one area effects all areas. That is not showing balance and is in case of incorrect blanket statements like "lasers have the best tracking" plain out manipulating. Either that or you have a far more incomplete view of the situation as you think you have.

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