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Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1074
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Posted - 2011.11.23 16:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Please discuss issues related to this session in this thread. We look forward to your comments and suggestions. CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism! CSM 6 Activities Summary | My CSM blog |
Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
95
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Posted - 2011.11.23 16:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Convenience MTs in Eve Online?
Never Ever without switching to Free To Play. |
Raid'En
Apprentice Innovations
124
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Posted - 2011.11.23 17:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
did they gave you examples, or do we have to discuss what we can accept and not... again ?
also having this on the last day is a bad idea ; it will for sure be a hard disucssion, and you'll need to talk again about it another day before leaving |
Orakkus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2011.11.23 17:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
No. Double No.
MT only for Vanity items... ever... if that. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
112
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Posted - 2011.11.23 17:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
with all due respect, anyone who advocates anything beyond sparkle-ponies (i.e. vanity items) for MT should be forced to answer to a salvo of quad 3500 mm artillery...
if they survive the first salvo, repeat. |
Tubrug1
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.23 17:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
i want hats The jihad bomb--áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=392090&#post392090 |
Kaeda Maxwell
Black Rebel Rifter Club
7
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Posted - 2011.11.23 17:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Anything that gets introduced that people had to previously invest time for will set of the **** storm all over again.
Don't even think about jump clones or standings for real world money CCP. Unless you enjoyed last summers thread-naughts ofc...
Just sayin. |
Drake Draconis
Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation
121
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Posted - 2011.11.23 17:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
In short
Microtransactions - **** no. |
Di Mulle
24
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Posted - 2011.11.23 18:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
2/3 of the Crucible would be sold as MT...
Just no. If anything else, would be too great an incentive to leave or even intentionally create "inconvenencies , which should be properly named just bad design and coding. And CCP has way too much proven record of making inconvenient stuff. CCP is unable to implement simpliest things. Like settting to hide signatures. So they sweep it under a rug . Children do that in their pre-shool years, CCP does it being adults. Probably because it is fearless enough. |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
241
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Posted - 2011.11.23 18:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Microtransactions could actually be beneficial to the economy as we know it. However, I don't mean by the creation of an iWin button, or several items that give a defined advantage over other players. What I suggest is that MTs continue, but do away with Aurum, and make the NeX the great ISK sink that it could be utilized as. It could help stabilize the failing economy, as with current NeX prices, and the addition of Aurum has driven the price of PLEX up to alarming levels, currently affecting numerous people and their ability to continue playing EVE.
Vanity items only. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
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Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
199
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Posted - 2011.11.23 18:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vanity items only. This is how it should remain. Support our boobies!-áLINKY! |
Solo Player
78
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Posted - 2011.11.23 20:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
No MT at all.
Vanity is a core gameplay mechanic in this game, as a quick look through these boards will show. So, no pay2win even for the vanity game. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
856
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 23:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
No cash store MT whatsoever for stuff in the eve online client as long as a subscription is charged.
Preferably remove NeX store and ceremonially throw the people who envisaged and championed it into the Harbour.
All ship customization, logos, exotic clothing and such should be introduced into the game by traditional means allowing players to research, develop, earn loyalty points from factions etc, and sell this stuff to other players on the market. Its an absolute no-brainer that npc corporate and faction ship skins should come from those factional loyalty stores.
Futhermore,
I'd like you to strongly remind CCP that they already got a form of MT additional income from the introduction of PLEX (which allows cash rich time poor players to spend rl currency on game advantage) and trying to impact the sandbox further is just being greedy.
Of course, you could argue that even additional accounts (which many many of us have) are another form of MT that makes gameplay easier (cyno alts anyone?)
Conclusion being.
Screw NeX!
Get that content flowing back into the sandbox by the traditional means and do not be tempted to nickel and dime subscription paying customers again in the future. The solution for CCP to increase its cash flow is to:
1. Improve the game so more people subscribe (and tell their friends to come subscribe too!) 2. Introduce expensive kit that people make ingame and sell for big isk (that some will trade plex/isk for) 3. Stop flushing money down the drain on half-assed projects that nobody really cares about.
It really isn't rocket science.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Drake Draconis
Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation
122
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Posted - 2011.11.23 23:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:No cash store MT whatsoever for stuff in the eve online client as long as a subscription is charged.
Preferably remove NeX store and ceremonially throw the people who envisaged and championed it into the Harbour.
All ship customization, logos, exotic clothing and such should be introduced into the game by traditional means allowing players to research, develop, earn loyalty points from factions etc, and sell this stuff to other players on the market. Its an absolute no-brainer that npc corporate and faction ship skins should come from those factional loyalty stores.
Futhermore,
I'd like you to strongly remind CCP that they already got a form of MT additional income from the introduction of PLEX (which allows cash rich time poor players to spend rl currency on game advantage) and trying to impact the sandbox further is just being greedy.
Of course, you could argue that even additional accounts (which many many of us have) are another form of MT that makes gameplay easier (cyno alts anyone?)
Conclusion being.
Screw NeX!
Get that content flowing back into the sandbox by the traditional means and do not be tempted to nickel and dime subscription paying customers again in the future. The solution for CCP to increase its cash flow is to:
1. Improve the game so more people subscribe (and tell their friends to come subscribe too!) 2. Introduce expensive kit that people make ingame and sell for big isk (that some will trade plex/isk for) 3. Stop flushing money down the drain on half-assed projects that nobody really cares about.
It really isn't rocket science.
QFE
Couldn't have said it better myself.
**** the Nex store and AUR crud...there's no reason or purpose to it....the economy should be unified under ISK anyway for DUST 514....why make it any harder than it is.
We can build/produce the stuff for the ground pounders anyway... we need the focus shfited back to the game...and as evidenced by recent events...its obvious that its the right thing to do. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 23:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
If anyone cares to read it, I have an alternate proposal where both players and CCP all benefit from micro-transactions, without effecting game balance (ie no pay to win).
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=37179 |
Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
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Posted - 2011.11.24 09:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Its always puzzled me why CCP chose to sell vanity items directly in the NEX store. It would have been much more fitting to the EvE universe to sell AUR only materials and blueprints (that could then be traded for ISK) which could be used by researchers and manufacturers.
So instead of buying a dress you can buy a blueprint for the dress, research it and offer to produce for people. Or buy the materials yourself and sell the dresses on the market. Instead of buying a custom ship logo you buy a blueprint and some paint and produce a ship logo kit that other people can apply. Price it so that a 1 run BPC and the materials is the same price as the current vanity item and optionally sell a BPO for way more.
This way you can maintain the same microtransaction structure without completely removing the economic and industrial mechanics that EvE does so well. |
Eperor
Skyforger Tactical Narcotics Team
2
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Posted - 2011.11.24 10:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cancel them complitly no microtransation in eve. Dont tuch our plexes they allready very expensive. |
Gempei
Siberian Khatru.
14
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 10:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
MT only for Vanity items ... ship skins, concord billboards, snowball launchers etc. ...be creative ccp |
Kaeda Maxwell
Black Rebel Rifter Club
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 11:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Not on the topic but just to explain something;
AUR exists for a simple reason it allows CCP to monitor how much PLEX gets converted and by extension how many GTC's are purchased for the purpose of vanity items.
If it didn't exist they'd have no way to monitor the vanity & subscription revenue streams separately. So there's a valid real world reason for the secondary currency.
Regardless of what my or our opinions on micro transactions are AUR has a valid reason for existing as long as NeX Store exists. |
Smiling Menace
Star Nebulae Holdings Inc.
43
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 11:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
MT's for vanity items only.
If someone has too much cash and wants to buy monocles then that is between them and their bank manager. |
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
857
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 12:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Smiling Menace wrote:MT's for vanity items only.
If someone has too much cash and wants to buy monocles then that is between them and their bank manager.
So let them buy PLEX and sell for ISK and use that ISK to buy expensive things in game that other players discover, harvest, manufacture and market.
Don't short-circuit the player economy in this game by allowing Cash Store NeX microtransactions to strip away content opportunity from Eve.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Samillian
Trojan Trolls Controlled Chaos
29
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Posted - 2011.11.24 14:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:No cash store MT whatsoever for stuff in the eve online client as long as a subscription is charged.
Preferably remove NeX store and ceremonially throw the people who envisaged and championed it into the Harbour.
All ship customization, logos, exotic clothing and such should be introduced into the game by traditional means allowing players to research, develop, earn loyalty points from factions etc, and sell this stuff to other players on the market. Its an absolute no-brainer that npc corporate and faction ship skins should come from those factional loyalty stores.
Furthermore,
I'd like you to strongly remind CCP that they already got a form of MT additional income from the introduction of PLEX (which allows cash rich time poor players to spend rl currency on game advantage) and trying to impact the sandbox further is just being greedy.
Of course, you could argue that even additional accounts (which many many of us have) are another form of MT that makes gameplay easier (cyno alts anyone?)
Conclusion being.
Screw NeX!
Get that content flowing back into the sandbox by the traditional means and do not be tempted to nickel and dime subscription paying customers again in the future. The solution for CCP to increase its cash flow is to:
1. Improve the game so more people subscribe (and tell their friends to come subscribe too!) 2. Introduce expensive kit that people make ingame and sell for big isk (that some will trade plex/isk for) 3. Stop flushing money down the drain on half-assed projects that nobody really cares about.
It really isn't rocket science.
This.
MT has been debated to death, close the book on it once and for all.
|
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 16:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
Yeep wrote:Its always puzzled me why CCP chose to sell vanity items directly in the NEX store. It would have been much more fitting to the EvE universe to sell AUR only materials and blueprints (that could then be traded for ISK) which could be used by researchers and manufacturers.
So instead of buying a dress you can buy a blueprint for the dress, research it and offer to produce for people. Or buy the materials yourself and sell the dresses on the market. Instead of buying a custom ship logo you buy a blueprint and some paint and produce a ship logo kit that other people can apply. Price it so that a 1 run BPC and the materials is the same price as the current vanity item and optionally sell a BPO for way more.
This way you can maintain the same microtransaction structure without completely removing the economic and industrial mechanics that EvE does so well.
OMG I just agreed with someone from Goonswarm.
So, where are those riders in the sky?
That said, if CCP went about it the right way, MT *could* heavy emphasis* be a good thing, but they are not.
The thing they really NEED to do is get the players involved in the CREATION of vanity items. |
Bomberlocks
CTRL-Q
59
|
Posted - 2011.11.25 01:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Trebor, make it clear to them that they will be risking the future of their company if they go beyond vanity items and it would be by far the best of they left that topic alone till eve has started growing again. |
Evei Shard
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2011.11.25 05:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
Wait. Where the **** did this word "Convenience" come from, and when?
We've gone from "vanity" related microtransactions, to "convenience microtransactions"?
Before this topic gets too far, CCP had damn well better step up and tell the players outright what they consider "convenience".
Faction ammo is "convenient" because it hits harder.
Faction modules are "convenient" because they increase damage/defense, etc.
Microtransactions are pretty damned basic for Eve: Avatar accessories only
Profit favors the prepared |
Tahna Rouspel
BWE Special Forces Rage Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2011.11.25 05:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
I don't mind the Microtransactions, as long as it remains vanity items.
I would like to see ship custom paints - these would be very popular. It would be good to see some of the old trinkets that appeared on the old character customization screen. There were hair trinkets, wires, etc... it added a lot of character to the avatar. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
858
|
Posted - 2011.11.25 11:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tahna Rouspel wrote:I don't mind the Microtransactions, as long as it remains vanity items.
I would like to see ship custom paints - these would be very popular. It would be good to see some of the old trinkets that appeared on the old character customization screen. There were hair trinkets, wires, etc... it added a lot of character to the avatar.
I too would like to see ship paint jobs and custom skins but I want them from exploration, from player led industry, from the faction loyalty point stores (from mission runners) and sold on the market for isk so that players can involve themselves in another service industry in the Eve online sandbox.
I do not see ANY valid reason for leeching gameplay content out to MT/NeX cash shop.
If you can see one then by all means make the argument.
But remember CCP already have a form of MT income stream through PLEX for ISK conversion and they already allow players to pay extra money for "convenience" by opening new accounts for multi boxing of everything from trade to logistics to cyno alts.
These terms "vanity/convenience" are a smokescreen for removing content from the sandbox and taking things away from player industry in Eve Online.
I want customization of spaceships, avatars, anything else you can think of. I don't want to spoil the player-led purety of the economic sandbox to get it.
And neither should you.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Tahna Rouspel
BWE Special Forces Rage Alliance
16
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Posted - 2011.11.25 12:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jade,
I understand your argument and I agree with it, but the argument on CCP's side is that they need to monetize the game more. I'm not sure why or how valid this is, but that's what motivated the NEX store.
If the NEX store didn't exist, the clothes would have been added to the normal customization screen and players could have used them without charges. Custom ship paints are in between. I'm not sure where that would fit in the game.
The in game industry has always been about manufacturing ships and modules of all sort. Cosmetic items -could- be a part of industry, but it's never something I expected.
As long as CCP doesn't make utility for the NEX store or focus entirely on the NEX store and forgo the game industry, then I'm fine with it. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
858
|
Posted - 2011.11.25 14:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tahna Rouspel wrote:Jade,
I understand your argument and I agree with it, but the argument on CCP's side is that they need to monetize the game more. I'm not sure why or how valid this is, but that's what motivated the NEX store.
Which was a terrible mistake that led to the fiascos of this summer and contributed to the unsub crisis. The message the player base gave to CCP was that NeX (monetization) was a step we didn't want. And it doesn't answer the question I asked - why is it needed when PLEX for ISK conversion already fulfills the need for extra income from players seeking convenience for rl cash.
Quote:If the NEX store didn't exist, the clothes would have been added to the normal customization screen and players could have used them without charges. Custom ship paints are in between. I'm not sure where that would fit in the game. The in game industry has always been about manufacturing ships and modules of all sort. Cosmetic items -could- be a part of industry, but it's never something I expected.
With respect it is something you should have expected because Eve online is a Premium cost subscription game. The "hybrid" model of subs + microtransactions for "vanity/convenience" is a bogus nickel and diming insult to the intelligence of Eve gamers.
Quote:As long as CCP doesn't make utility for the NEX store or focus entirely on the NEX store and forgo the game industry, then I'm fine with it.
As long as NeX exists it represents a place where non integrated content can be injected into the game at cost to the integrity of the player-led economic sandbox.
It needs to go.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
178
|
Posted - 2011.11.25 14:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Tahna Rouspel wrote:I don't mind the Microtransactions, as long as it remains vanity items.
I would like to see ship custom paints - these would be very popular. It would be good to see some of the old trinkets that appeared on the old character customization screen. There were hair trinkets, wires, etc... it added a lot of character to the avatar. I too would like to see ship paint jobs and custom skins but I want them from exploration, from player led industry, from the faction loyalty point stores (from mission runners) and sold on the market for isk so that players can involve themselves in another service industry in the Eve online sandbox. I do not see ANY valid reason for leeching gameplay content out to MT/NeX cash shop.
The "original plan" involved manufacturing clothes through some WiS process, and have only blueprints available for AUR. I agree that the current iteration is quite lacking in content.
I still stand by my opinion that the NEX store is not a MT shop. It's merely transfering one in-game item (PLEX) into an in-game currency (AUR) into more in-game items (accessories). The only MT in EVE is being able to buy a PLEX - which is freely available on the market. Therefore all the in-game content is available to you without having to pay anything more than the subscription fee. As long as it stays this way, I am fine with it. |
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