Refine all your trit-bearing ores, make sure nullsec doesn't get it.

this idea has come up before and like others have done i will point out that yes it can be harder to get mex out in null however no space is supposed to be able to produce everything easily all space from 1.0 to -1.0 is reliant on other areas of space

this idea has come up before and like others have done i will point out that yes it can be harder to get mex out in null however no space is supposed to be able to produce everything easily all space from 1.0 to -1.0 is reliant on other areas of space

Just stop baking supers like candy??

If you haven't noticed, mineral prices are askew and are not going to get much better without CCP involvement. Yes, the market will adjust somewhat, but the aspiration of localized nullsec supply will not be attained, and "high end' ores will continue to be awful isk/hour sources.

There are two Major Problems:

• The changes in compression means that it is harder for null producers to source the appropriate amounts of low/med tier minerals (especially super producers). Producers halting their production because of an inability to source minerals reduces overall demand for all minerals, dropping prices.
• Nullsec Ore Anomalies have entirely too much high end ore as opposed to the low end output. In order for local miners to fulfill the mineral needs of local producers, they would need to cycle belts, producing a surplus of high end minerals. That, or they simply cherry pick the high ends and leave everything else in the belt. Specifically, nullsec producers have issues sourcing Mex and Isogen in meaningful amounts.

These problems are leading to high end minerals plummetting in price, while the low-ends are fluctuating as high sec struggles to fulfill the demand of null producers. If null miners were to cycle belts in order to meet the mineral demand of local producers, the high end market would crash even further, reducing the already sub par isk/hour of mining. In reality, mining is already one of the lowest isk/hour activities, and it is only going to get worse. There are ships specifically designed to "cherry pick" or "ninja mine" ores- neither of which is a viable profession because of the current ore/mineral imbalance.

Potential Solutions:

• Re-balance the distribution of ores in the existing ore anoms. Reduce some of the m3 of high end ores and replace that m3 with Kernite/Plagioclase/Jaspet (even Veld?). This would reduce output of high end minerals as well as enable nullsec miners to be able to supply the much needed minerals of local producers. Reducing output of high ends will lead to a rebound in price for the high ends, making them more valuable and making things like "ninja mining" and "cherry picking" a thing again.
• Suggested by one of the J**bal members: completely remove existing ore anomalies. Replace those with smaller anomalies that have only one (or few) types of ores, with more anomalies spawning as the industry level increases. This would make ore anoms function similar to existing combat anoms, with more numbers of "low end" sites and only a few "high end" sites (such as with sanctum distribution). These sites would be much smaller and more condensed than current ore anoms, and could respawn on a timer, such as 30 minutes, to negate some of the effects of cycling one type of belt over and over.

Both of the above solutions aim at reducing the output of high end ores from nullsec and rewarding leveling a system to industrial level 5. Additionally, the removal of the high ends would be refocused to increased supply of low end minerals, enabling nullsec groups to source their minerals locally in meaningful amounts. Arkonor, supposedly the "most rare" ore in the game, is the least valuable ore in the game to mine right now. Yes, the market will adjust some, but the overall supply of high ends is "too damn high!"

Despite all of the recent changes to compression, most ore and minerals are still being sourced out of Jita in the form of compressed ores (at least in the CFC).

Yes, the market will adjust somewhat, but the aspiration of localized nullsec supply will not be attained, and "high end' ores will continue to be awful isk/hour sources.

But but...they dont need to change. They want it so goods have to be moved..they have stated this before. I too was stuck with the problem of needing trit and compressed veldspar in high sec is ridiculously overpriced. ITs way more then the value of the trit it contains. and then it hit me, compress my own. So find a local market and put up buy orders for veldspar and compress it myself.

IF you need pyrite, do the same as for veldspar. Buy Scordite. If you pay a good rate, the ore will come.

For things like Mex or Iso can just haul that out in a JF. 3 loads is enough Mex for a Nyx. OR get compressed Kernite. etc. You get the idea.

Ever think its their intention to make it harder to build supers?

The high sec supply of low end ores is weak compared to your needs or the compressed ores in trade hubs are over priced ?

null sec with its near infinite supply of ore

Why can't nullsec miners simply mine in belts?

This is a serious question. Are nullsec belts equally broken?

Belts have a pitiful amount of ore in them, and are primarily high-ends. Mining nullsec asteroid belts only exacerbates the problem.

Nulsec miners can simply mine in belts

Yes, the cause of the problem is the mechanic which forces null-sec miners to mine out an entire anomaly to get the next one to spawn.

However, changing the mineral composition of ores is not the best solution. Will CCP need to repeat the process every patch as each mineral, one by one, becomes the one with the shortage?

Question: why would we need to add timers to artificially incentivize mining different types of ore?

Yes, the cause of the problem is the mechanic which forces null-sec miners to mine out an entire anomaly to get the next one to spawn.

However, changing the mineral composition of ores is not the best solution. Will CCP need to repeat the process every patch as each mineral, one by one, becomes the one with the shortage?

High sec miners are able to cherry-pick whichever ore is worth the most. They are also able to move from region to region if they don't think they are getting enough isk per hour. Null sec miners should also be given the option to cherry pick whichever ore is worth the most or contains the minerals they need.

Possible easy solution: Double the size of anomalies. The next anomaly spawns when the first is 50% mined, rather than fully mined out. The old anomaly then despawns (perhaps after a short time delay.) When someone has a glut of megacyte, they would then have the option to let the arkanor asteroids despawn while they mined something they actually needed.

Producers halting their production because of an inability to source minerals reduces overall demand for all minerals, dropping prices.

This is so blatantly non-sequitor either you're being disingenuous or worse. Lack of supply drives up prices, without exception.

I used to HAULER in t1 compression mods, and you can JUMP IN ores. And you have the GALL to cry about it? I built an outpost using HAULERs to harvest rat mineral spawns, with a group of about 10 others. And then about 30 of us HAULERed them to the outpost all bloody night long.

Eve isn't a silver platter, and you don't get a silver spoon no matter how much you Cry Us. Suck it up, and adapt or (preferably) die.

As for the High End market collapse, I think CCP should've changed Ore anomalies the same way as they did Pirate anomalies. Remove most high end ores in -0.1 and -0.2 and have more, the lower the security rating gets.

Acutally what eve needs is a more complete overhaul of the basic mining concept.

So, to re-propose what I've suggested before, just take the empire and lowsec ores, everything between Veldspar and Jaspet, out of nullsec sites.

When I had initially made this suggestion it was with an eye to making nullsec mining a bit more attractive, and so I'd also said "and then adjust the mineral content of the nullsec ores so that the overall mineral content of a site remains approximately the same." As you'd remove 10-15% of the volume of the site, yet retained the total value of the site, the isk/hr from mining would rise accordingly. At least at the time it boosted mining income up to be roughly on par with low effort ratting, which I think put it in a reasonable place. I'm not sure if that's still true with current mineral prices, though. I'm not sure sure if that's true with current mineral prices though...but there's more. I've somehow rambled on to four thousand characters though, so "more" comes next post.

Let me recap the issues

Ore Supply in Null

• Nullsec is already mining a large amount of ore via Industrial Upgrade Ore Anomalies
• The existing ore anomalies are very top heavy- meaning that they have a huge quantity of high end minerals and not a huge quantity of low end minerals (see: zyd/mega prices)
• There isn't "infinite" ore of a specific type, because each belt must be 100% mined out before it respawns
• Mining in actual belts in nullsec is much worse isk/hour than mining in empire because of aforementioned mineral prices
• There is a severe shortage of mexallon (and some isogen) in nullsec belts; meanwhile, there is a crushingly imbalanced surplus of high end minerals

Filling the Gap

• In order to fill the Mex gap, we currently need to import from high sec
• The nerf to modules means that a significant source of minerals was nerfed across the board
• A considerable portion of high sec miners don't compress their ore, and instead refine it directly in high sec stations. This reduces the pre-Crius supply even further because of the reduced efficiency of High Sec stations
• As soon as ore is refined into minerals, there is no way to get it into a compressed - "easy to move" - format, without taking a gigantic loss.
• A great number of miners in high sec don't read forums, don't do math (as shown by vocal posters in other threads in S&I), and therefore don't compress their ore for additional profit.
• Additionally, there is a barrier to entry for compression in high sec, which some miners assume is too high to enter the compressed market space

Therefore- the compressed market was severely hit post Crius. The mineral supply issue has always been a problem, but was being staunched by being able to import minerals via modules. The current state of supply in nullsec is imbalanced to the point that is going to continue to crash the high end markets- production has considerably slowed in null, reducing the relative demand for all minerals (but especially high ends).

This would be a whole new topic- a mining minigame would be less boring

There as been a lot of suggestion for a Minigame of some kind for mining. If you are in highsec, playing a mini-game while you are mining is acceptable, and relatively safe.

If you are in lowsec, nullsec, or w-space, and there is a mini-game, you are forcing people to pay less attention on local or d-scan which is a bad thing. Please kindly stop suggesting a mini-game as miners in any sec status apart from high will need to focus on local, d-scan for safety and cannot maximise mining via playing a mini-game.

If you are in lowsec, nullsec, or w-space, and there is a mini-game, you are forcing people to pay less attention on local or d-scan which is a bad thing. Please kindly stop suggesting a mini-game as miners in any sec status apart from high will need to focus on local, d-scan for safety and cannot maximise mining via playing a mini-game.

But don't lower security status system already generate ore anoms with only the +5% and the +10% variants?

What about mercoxit spawns? Messing with those could be dangerous.

How would this benefit any new entity to nullsec or any new player?

Would this drive power into deeper nullsec? (Blue donut effect?)

So you have a shortage of Omber... how about you reflect that in market and start paying for it better... like stop it being the worst ISK/hour ore, even Veldspar is above it.

What mechanic is broken, where the issues you are presenting are not player behavior based?

As expressed in EVERY SINGLE OTHER WHINE THREAD YOU ALREADY HAVE ON THIS MATTER (Seriously, and you say high sec whines). Mine your static belts.
It's not hard, and solves your issue. You ALREADY HAVE THE MEANS TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM.

But it's too hard to actually adapt for a Goon we can see, instead you need CCP to hold your hand and change everything for you to win. Seriously, you know if CCP do this, it's going to be outright proof Goons run CCP now, because you already have all the ore you need in static belts. I stuck my head out to personally verify that ore exists even.

As expressed in EVERY SINGLE OTHER WHINE THREAD YOU ALREADY HAVE ON THIS MATTER (Seriously, and you say high sec whines). Mine your static belts.
It's not hard, and solves your issue. You ALREADY HAVE THE MEANS TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM.

But it's too hard to actually adapt for a Goon we can see, instead you need CCP to hold your hand and change everything for you to win. Seriously, you know if CCP do this, it's going to be outright proof Goons run CCP now, because you already have all the ore you need in static belts. I stuck my head out to personally verify that ore exists even.

We've been over this in the other thread -- static belts have barely enough minerals to build anything. The needs of nullsec war far outstrip the supply that is locally available.

Across Null there are about 4 times as many belts.

Thank you for your suggestion. However, mining belts in nullsec does not solve the problem of the horrible imbalance in the already implemented ore anomalies. Furthermore, null ore belts are not a consistent way of getting Mex as opposed to every other mineral available in Ore Anomalies. In order to match the mineral distribution from one ore anomaly, we would have to completely strip the belts of multiple systems in null, costing significantly more in man hours than it is worth. We would be better off paying a lot extra to ship pure minerals from Jita to null, which is what is currently happening.

Let's agree to disagree.