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Dekiri ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:41:00 - [1] First of all i want to state that i am not talking on behalf of the ISS or ISSN. I am just really curious and this is also not meant to induce flaming, i have a strategic question about the BoB vs. Goonfleet thing wich i really can't answer by myself. We all know that it is not hard to declare war on someone, but we all know how hard it is to make people give up completly and have an alliance completly disappear from the eve-universe like many alliances have shown that where called "dead" long time before they actually where. Maybe i also misunderstood BoB's goals in this so it may end up in a dealing where Goonswarm is just reforming under a new name with a new leadership, but pretty mucht he same concept. Considering the fact that a lot of people in eve want both gone Goons and BoB, wouldn't it be a bit much for either of them? I know it will probably be to much for the goons just for the fact that they are already in a big war and probably can live well without another alliance knocking at their doors, but isn't BoB in a similar position here? What would stop BoB's enemies to say "nice region we take it" while BoB try to anihilate Goonswarm?(wich wil definitly take some real effort) Well of course BoB will is the expected answer, but wouldn't they have just put themselves in a really unfavourable tactical position? They really seem to have to win versus Goonswarm to keep their current reputation i think so i doubt they would just go and cancel the Goonswarm war to counter a possible invasion into their own space. Anyone willing to enlighten me? I know i will probably not get a proper answer for it, but i can hope can't I? I have been discussing this with others before and i really can't see any easy answer to this. For me currently it looks like this war would be really bad for both sides.... Help to make EVE better! Post in this thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=369069
Witch Doctor Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:51:00 - [2] Good luck with this thread ... Personally, I think you're right - everyone knows it is nigh-on impossible to exterminate an entity. However, if anyone was going to do it, it'd be Bob; at the same time, if anyone was least likely to be eliminated/disbanded, it'd be the Goonswarm. It's kind of like the irresistable force meeting the immovable object. It is quite fascinating how the gauntlet has been thrown down. There is a lot of pride on both sides on the line here, so it will be an all-out battle. I'm not so sure either side is opening themselves up to any threats greater than what this war represents, but it depends on where the battleground ends up being. So, I'm with you - it'll be fun to see how it plays out, and there's not a clear route for either side to total victory. I'll step aside now for the troll hordes headed to this thread now ...
Archangel Deck Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:53:00 - [3] Simple thing is BoB could maintain 2 fronts, all they need to do is send a corp like Dice to fight GoonSwarm and the rest of the alliance can defend their space. With GoonSwarm being the defenders in a war with BoB, BoB has the upperhand, plus the fact that GS is fighting the north will make it hard for GS to exploit any real withdraw of BoB forces. You need to understand just what kind of power each BoB corp has, 1 corp is all that is needed to keep the pressure up on GoonSwarm, in which time BoB could deal with any invading force, the only real threats in BoB are now engaged in this war, D2, ASCN, and GoonSwarm are all going to be in the area fighting, those alliances also happen to be BoB's biggest threat if one was to invade BoB, and all 3 of them are going to be beating the crap out of each other up north, why not have BoB up north to join the action? make GNW and the ec- seige look like nothing _____________________________
Itzena Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:54:00 - [4] The most likely outcome - IMO - is: BoB pushes the Goons back to Syndicate and camps them for a while. BoB's (many) other enemies figure out "Large chunks of BoBfleet in Syndicate camping the Bees = Time to break out the dreads" SirMolle declares a moral victory against GS, and turns BoB around to smack the interlopers in BoBspace around a bit. Goons pop out of stations, post "We're still here, loldrama". Life goes on. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
Ismern GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:54:00 - [5] Originally by: Dekiri What would stop BoB's enemies to say "nice region we take it" while BoB try to anihilate Goonswarm? The short answer here is Fear. Allow me to use an example. Before the events of September 11, 2001 (and don't any of you dare start this into a conversation over this event) plane hijacking occurred. Typically what happened is that terrorists would hijack a plane, request demands, fly to some remote location, and try to escape. All of the passengers on the plane were frightened and thought that as long as they didn't speak up, didn't make themselves noticeable, they would be left alone. This is why 9/11 happened. A few men on each plane took it over with nothing more than box cutters. The killed the pilots to instill fear in the passengers, knowing that after that they wouldn't do anything. However, after 9/11, people realized what would happen in any hijacking situation. They learned that they cannot allow this behavior anymore, because the consequences *will* affect them. A guy tries to light a bomb in his shoe on fire and 6 passengers tackle him to the ground and tie him up. This is EVE politics. Consider all of BoB's aggression throughout EVE. They are powerful indeed, but they leave themselves open to attack if they start a massive war. I can guarantee you though that none of the other alliances will do anything out of fear. The other alliances assume that so long as they law low, BoB won't notice them and won't bother them. However, eventually, BoB will come for them when there's nothing else to do. People have to realize that no one in this game is invincible. If someone leaves themselves open to attack, then other alliances should capitalize on that opportunity, instead of cowering in fear of reprecussion. Personal note. Yes, I understand that I used 9/11 as an analogy. Don't any of you dare make a fuss or give me crap about it. I'm an American, I live in New York, and I lost family there so don't even think about questioning my right to say anything and don't any of you dare turn my words about it into a flame war in that respect. ----------------------------------------------------------- "It's not that I'm lazy . . . It's that I just don't care."
John Moscroft GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:57:00 - [6] Edited by: John Moscroft on 27/07/2006 23:58:02 The way I see it, BoB couldn't kill NORAD or Fountain Alliance, two entities that aren't particularly good and live in NPC space. So what makes them think they can kill an alliance far more powerful than both of them combined? Even in BoB locked down XZH and actually kicked us out (which I don't think will happen, but for argument's sake) then we'd just grind them down in Syndicate like every other alliance who thought they could just walk all over us. The terrible truth that BoB doesn't want anyone to realize is that their ships die just like everyone else's. They expect a mere wardec to dissolve our alliance. They are wrong. We are not afraid. Bring a Titan and that shiny new mothership you won in the tournament. We will kill it. More skulls for the skull throne.
Dekiri ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:59:00 - [7] I am pretty sure that One BoB corp could be harrasing Goonswarm nicely, but i doubt they could eliminate them from the eve-universe and make them disappear. Goons will probably blob up in the old hive in S-U and stay there like... forver? In addition to that if i am properly informed Goonswarm is mostly US based and BoB probably more heavy in the european times. Not to underestimate BoB, they are really good sport and fight very well and put up some nasty suprises at times as i know from experience, but i think you are overestimating them a tad. I might be wrong and i would not mind to be proven wrong about that, but that is how i would currently judge it. Help to make EVE better! Post in this thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=369069
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:01:00 - [8] Originally by: John Moscroft Edited by: John Moscroft on 27/07/2006 23:58:02 The way I see it, BoB couldn't kill NORAD or Fountain Alliance, two entities that aren't particularly good and live in NPC space. And there-in lies the crux of the problem when it comes to killing off alliances in NPC space - you can't take their space from them unless you move into the region full time as anyone can dock in the stations. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Randay Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:02:00 - [9] I like boobies. ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
Ismern GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Randay I like boobies. Don't start trolling here. Give intelligible input or get out. ----------------------------------------------------------- "It's not that I'm lazy . . . It's that I just don't care."
Randay Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:04:00 - [11] Originally by: Ismern Originally by: Randay I like boobies. Don't start trolling here. Give intelligible input or get out. They make me happy because they are round. ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
Archangel Deck Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:05:00 - [12] While FA and NORAD weren't destroyed they were removed from the power they once were, FA was once considered the most powerful alliance in eve, they went down fighting but in the end they went down, they didn't die but they went down to a lvl they never recoverd from. In eve its not about totaly destorying an alliance till it doesnt exist, its about beating it so bad that it never fully recovers, and when it shows signs of recovering then u go and beat it again, this way keeping them in check _____________________________
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:09:00 - [13] Alts dont belong in this forum - Uly
Himo Amasacia Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:09:00 - [14] And that fact is what I Percive in Goonswarm. Lack of fear. Its the lack of fear that has a bunch of guys on frigs and t1 'crap' causing havoc. Because they simply did not know or care that 'they are not supposed to do that, dammit!' Bob is afraid. Desperatly afraid. They are afraid that sooner or later they will lose. And if they lose what then? They have to win otherwise all of a sudden people will realise they are mortal and charge. And they look at peopel that are using the same blob tactics that they use, but not in elite pvp ships. And winning. And not afriad to admit they lose. What do you think that BOBs feelings are then? Hense the rather pathetic screaming about their invincibility. And the ignoring of the fact that tehy are only the 6th biggest alliance in eve. Regardless, Goonswarm will have a riot. Bob may have fun, but probably wont. Therefore, regardless, goonswarm wins, as they get they benefit of their $14. And it will be facinating to watch if it happens.
Nira Li Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:09:00 - [15] It's not like we don't know that you will go and live in NPC stations. It's both fun and sad that you seem to think that we know nothing about this game. If you go and hide in NPC stations go ahead, many alliance does it. You Will Cry My Name Funny Guys
Grayton GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:13:00 - [16] I don't care about how this whole thing started. I have my own opinions on why BoB is attacking GS but I'm not going to get into it here. I will say this though: They may drive us from Cloud Ring. They may camp us into Syndicate 23/7. They may destroy every last battleship, cruiser, and frigate that we have. But they will never, ever get rid of us. We are united in a way that no other alliance ever has been, even BoB. Most of us aren't playing Eve because Eve is fun and we just happen to be with other Goons; we're playing Eve for the sole purpose of playing with other Goons. Because of this, no one will ever be able to break our bond to each other or our spirits. BoB is on a quest to exterminate us for who we are; Goons. But they never will. And I hope they just keep in mind that we remember. Even if you somehow drive us back to Empire you will never get rid of us. And we will never forget.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:14:00 - [17] Originally by: Himo Amasacia And that fact is what I Percive in Goonswarm. Lack of fear. Its the lack of fear that has a bunch of guys on frigs and t1 'crap' causing havoc. Because they simply did not know or care that 'they are not supposed to do that, dammit!' Bob is afraid. Desperatly afraid. They are afraid that sooner or later they will lose. And if they lose what then? They have to win otherwise all of a sudden people will realise they are mortal and charge. And they look at peopel that are using the same blob tactics that they use, but not in elite pvp ships. And winning. And not afriad to admit they lose. What do you think that BOBs feelings are then? Hense the rather pathetic screaming about their invincibility. And the ignoring of the fact that tehy are only the 6th biggest alliance in eve. Regardless, Goonswarm will have a riot. Bob may have fun, but probably wont. Therefore, regardless, goonswarm wins, as they get they benefit of their $14. And it will be facinating to watch if it happens. You know, if a couple of forces right now started hammering on D2 from the other side and BoB from another and one splits their areas in the middle, I think the maps would change.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:15:00 - [18] Originally by: FATE LOL Alts dont belong in this forum - Uly I'm a newbie, not an alt!
dalman MASS	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:16:00 - [19] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: John Moscroft Edited by: John Moscroft on 27/07/2006 23:58:02 The way I see it, BoB couldn't kill NORAD or Fountain Alliance, two entities that aren't particularly good and live in NPC space. And there-in lies the crux of the problem when it comes to killing off alliances in NPC space - you can't take their space from them unless you move into the region full time as anyone can dock in the stations. And there-in lies the major problem with the way EvE is being developed. That no-one except the alt fueling the POSes has to live there to keep control of the entire region. You should pretty much have to "move into the region full time" to take it. No, I don't want the extreme station ping-pong back. And yes, I was there when C4 and [northen parts of]SA (= Col, MASS, etc) was fighting for the stations in Catch which could switch owners 4 times aday. But the current situation, which is bound to be worse with constellation thingie, is not fun gameplay. If "wars" are supposed to be decided by either "who can stand to deploy 10 POSes aday" or "who can gather a fleet in the system where the POSes comes out of reinforced mode big enough to crash the server first" I won't be fighting any "wars", period. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Xrak Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:24:00 - [20] Edited by: Xrak on 28/07/2006 00:24:50 Originally by: Himo Amasacia And that fact is what I Percive in Goonswarm. Lack of fear. Its the lack of fear that has a bunch of guys on frigs and t1 'crap' causing havoc. Because they simply did not know or care that 'they are not supposed to do that, dammit!' Bob is afraid. Desperatly afraid. They are afraid that sooner or later they will lose. And if they lose what then? They have to win otherwise all of a sudden people will realise they are mortal and charge. And they look at peopel that are using the same blob tactics that they use, but not in elite pvp ships. And winning. And not afriad to admit they lose. What do you think that BOBs feelings are then? Hense the rather pathetic screaming about their invincibility. And the ignoring of the fact that tehy are only the 6th biggest alliance in eve. Regardless, Goonswarm will have a riot. Bob may have fun, but probably wont. Therefore, regardless, goonswarm wins, as they get they benefit of their $14. And it will be facinating to watch if it happens. Lol, yup we are shaking in our boots.
John Moscroft GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:24:00 - [21] Originally by: Nira Li It's not like we don't know that you will go and live in NPC stations. It's both fun and sad that you seem to think that we know nothing about this game. If you go and hide in NPC stations go ahead, many alliance does it. We're not RISE. If you want, you can go find out what happened to the last guys who decided that we'd be walkovers and would just live in the station when they came along with their mighty battleship force. Sorry. We're still not afraid. And you can take that message to the gloaters in your forums, too.
Ismern GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:38:00 - [22] Dekiri, I think you're question has most likely been answered by this point. If so, please ask to end this before it explodes like all of the other threads today. For sanity's sake . . . ----------------------------------------------------------- "It's not that I'm lazy . . . It's that I just don't care."
Johlie Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:39:00 - [23] Originally by: Ismern Dekiri, I think you're question has most likely been answered by this point. If so, please ask to end this before it explodes like all of the other threads today. For sanity's sake . . . srsly. /sign --I'm a soldier, I fight where I'm told, and I win where I fight--
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Himo Amasacia And that fact is what I Percive in Goonswarm. Lack of fear. Its the lack of fear that has a bunch of guys on frigs and t1 'crap' causing havoc. Because they simply did not know or care that 'they are not supposed to do that, dammit!' Bob is afraid. Desperatly afraid. They are afraid that sooner or later they will lose. And if they lose what then? They have to win otherwise all of a sudden people will realise they are mortal and charge. And they look at peopel that are using the same blob tactics that they use, but not in elite pvp ships. And winning. And not afriad to admit they lose. What do you think that BOBs feelings are then? Hense the rather pathetic screaming about their invincibility. And the ignoring of the fact that tehy are only the 6th biggest alliance in eve. Regardless, Goonswarm will have a riot. Bob may have fun, but probably wont. Therefore, regardless, goonswarm wins, as they get they benefit of their $14. And it will be facinating to watch if it happens. If you really believe this, you are so far off the mark it's ridiculous. Quoting the fact that we are 'only' the 6th biggest alliance, only reinforces the fact that you just don't get it.
Toffles GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:54:00 - [25] Originally by: Ab Initio If you really believe this, you are so far off the mark it's ridiculous. Quoting the fact that we are 'only' the 6th biggest alliance, only reinforces the fact that you just don't get it. I don't think bob is afraid and I know for a fact that goonswarm isn't afraid. So we're both not afraid. To the op: I don't think anyone will attack bob (other than us) because they fear bob like they are the boogey man or something.
Plutoinum Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:56:00 - [26] Edited by: Plutoinum on 28/07/2006 00:59:08 Originally by: Dekiri Considering the fact that a lot of people in eve want both gone Goons and BoB, wouldn't it be a bit much for either of them? People often assume that BoB is the number one enemy of almost everyone and that most people just wait for a chance to kill them. I doubt that that's the case. I don't see the big united front against BoB. People in other regions have their own problems, like we since many month now. I just watch what's going on between BoB and the Goons out of interest. For me they are neutrals. They do their thing in the north, west, southwest and while we have our own problems in the east / southeast. To be honest, personally I don't care much about what BoB invades next or if they destroy another alliance, as long as it doesn't affect us. I just see it as an interesting news. We have our own things to deal with. P.S.: just my personal view
ProphetGuru Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 01:15:00 - [27] Originally by: John Moscroft We're not RISE. If you want, you can go find out what happened to the last guys who decided that we'd be walkovers and would just live in the station when they came along with their mighty battleship force. Sorry. We're still not afraid. And you can take that message to the gloaters in your forums, too. We're not like anyone you have ever fought. If you want, you can go find out what happened to the last guys who decided that we'd get bored and leave when they decided to fall back and hide in npc stations. Sorry. We're still not afraid. And you can take that message to the gloaters in your forums, too. Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
Luc Boye Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 01:22:00 - [28] Originally by: Himo Amasacia Bob is afraid. Desperatly afraid. Nope. We never really payed too much thought to goons, we just thought it was kinda funny the way things developed vs D2 and all. Until now. As for fear of losing in war... no. War for us is the way to play eve. Will we lose ships? Sure we will. We lost them before, and we'll lose ships again. And then we will get new ships and be there to shoot you again. Because we dont make wars so that we could npc, we npc so that we could make wars. -------------------------- MWD Cap Penalty?
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 01:22:00 - [29] Goonswarm's antics were irritating BoB leadership before this incident, I've seen the threads. Not so much as Goonswarm's in game actions and ambitions (those actually have gotten some mild approval by our leadership, looking forward to others who fight....), but their general smacktard obnoxious attitude. Then a ranking Goonswarm member mocked the RL dead personal friend of a number of senior BoB. Then other goons started blaming BoB for getting upset about it. Mocking the dead might have blown over after a good thrashing if the mocker had been purged and the ONLY other words from Goonswarm on the issue were "we screwed up". But a LARGE number of goons have been VIGOROUSLY debating the point, rather than meekly conceeding the point. There are some debate positions that cannot be validly defended, not even with true information. The only thing that can be validly done is to meekly conceed. You only dig yourself into a hole by trying to debate (and the goons have been digging like mad). I suspect the Goons will end up much like some of the "Not quite dead" Corps in game now, who live on only because they avoid actual combat and hug NPC station. Only the goons will be far less respected, not by Empire carebears, not by hardcore PvPers, and not even by pirates. Play nice while you Butcher each other
Degaal Valen Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 01:23:00 - [30] Originally by: ProphetGuru We're not like anyone you have ever fought. When all of BoB isn't busy with their supermodel girlfriends or reigning terror down on unsuspecting video game players who wins the kickboxing tournaments?

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