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Bu Jinkan Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:07:00 - [1] Edited by: Bu Jinkan on 29/07/2006 05:08:26 They are all cool. This is a serious post. This my main. I do not speak for Goonswarm and I am not a director. I only speak for myself. I certainly hope Goonswarm doesn't swarm this thread. And I hope Bob can cool their heads long enough to listen. I have been a member of Goonswarm for 3 months. A lot of them are cool guys, a few of them like to stir up trouble. I am sure every alliance and corp have these kinds of people in them. An unfunny joke was told and exposed to these forums. I personally am sorry this happened and I do honestly feel remorse for any of Smoske's friends and family that were exposed to it. But, to be honest I didn't even know the whole story on Smoske until this whole issue came to a head. Most of the Goons do not either. It happened before our time. I didn't even know the meaning of the offending signature. I came to play a game. I even enjoy reading the politics! It is interesting. But this level of hostility crosses the line, on all 3 sides. I just ask the parties in involved to take a step back, breathe, and try to put the genie back in the bottle. Shooting each other in a space ship game is for fun! Shooting each in a space ship game in hatred isn't. Please Please Please Goonswarm forum warriors, do not post in this thread. These are my feelings and mine alone. Once again, I do not speak for Goonswarm. These are my thoughts alone. I hope my words show at least a little merit for consideration. At least keep the smack out of this thread. For the Mods sake.
shivan Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:13:00 - [2] Edited by: shivan on 29/07/2006 05:13:08 You need to have your corp or alliance tags showing to be able to post in this forum or you risk having your post/thread edited/locked and you being warned/banned. Can I have a cookie now please Wrangler? ----------------------------- Need a new sig. Mail me with offers and ideas. 50mill isk to the sig that I use.
CardboardSword42 Celtic Anarchy	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:17:00 - [3] However all these damn threads aren't cool D: I'm Ex-Biomass, that makes me cool But now I'm KOS and that makes me cooler 8)
Irizumi	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:20:00 - [4] Edited by: Irizumi on 29/07/2006 05:20:05
Bu Jinkan Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:22:00 - [5] please at least read the thread before posting. If you have any ideas or suggestions on diffusing the hostility, I am all ears. My goal is to get back to playing a fun game, not waging a war of hate against people half a world away. So, please keep the smack out of this thread. (this is the main reason I originally posted without my corp ticker. People dismiss people out of hand like this.)
Kelly O'Connor Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:26:00 - [6] for all who dont know the storry just treat this war as normal bob invasion (lots of ppl already called it that way) for some of bob this is personal and let it be just drop this whole "joke" thingy and start playng a game there is a lot of fun before us for both sides i belive keep it that way ...
NAFnist	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:27:00 - [7] This should be dealt with using laserguns now. I need not the reminder, dont stain the boards about this matter anymore, please.
Irizumi	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:29:00 - [8] Thank you for your input Kelly. I look forward to the fights.
Toffles GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:29:00 - [9] Edited by: Toffles on 29/07/2006 05:30:32 Edited by: Toffles on 29/07/2006 05:29:41 Originally by: Kelly O'Connor for all who dont know the storry just treat this war as normal bob invasion (lots of ppl already called it that way) for some of bob this is personal and let it be just drop this whole "joke" thingy and start playng a game there is a lot of fun before us for both sides i belive keep it that way ... Agreed. Everything worth saying has been said already, there is nothing new to say, lets just play the stupid game already.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:39:00 - [10] To this DAY, Goonswarm members CONTINUE to mock the RL dead. Goonswarm apologies are utterly worthless. ANYONE willing to be IN goonswarm is trash. Not just "playing" trash. They ARE trash. When this first happened, it could be reasonable for a player to not approve of what was being said, and be innocent. As of this point, all in Goonswarm are WILLINGLY guilty by tolerating the trash. Play nice while you Butcher each other
Ismern GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:44:00 - [11] Originally by: Sergeant Spot To this DAY, Goonswarm members CONTINUE to mock the RL dead. Goonswarm apologies are utterly worthless. ANYONE willing to be IN goonswarm is trash. Not just "playing" trash. They ARE trash. When this first happened, it could be reasonable for a player to not approve of what was being said, and be innocent. As of this point, all in Goonswarm are WILLINGLY guilty by tolerating the trash. EVE becomes unfun due to people like you. Quit generalizing. If BoB wants to come attack GoonSwarm then that's fine, that's part of the game. But when members come here to "annihilate all of GoonSwarm" for the vindication of a few, then that's retarded. It's a game. It's time people started treating it like one. ----------------------------------------------------------- The winners of EVE have spoken. Let's all quit GoonSwarm and go to Empire while we still have some ISK left.
Bu Jinkan Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:47:00 - [12] Edited by: Bu Jinkan on 29/07/2006 05:49:37 Edited by: Bu Jinkan on 29/07/2006 05:48:26 You see, this is what I am talking about. My apology is not a Goonswarm apology. I am apologizing for myself. I can sympathize with your feelings, but you are pushing things too far. This kind of behavior reflects what is going on in the world today. People using the bad actions of one to tar the many. It like saying, "George Bush is an idiot, therefore all Americans must be idiots." This, when 50% of our country voted against the bastard! No one is mocking Smoske, except those that like to stir up trouble. And mostly they are mocking your response to the situation, not his death. Why are you allowing Goons to push your buttons? You are a free human and can do what you want. But you go too far with your anger, no matter how rightous it may be. And please keep the smack talk out of this thread. I set up this thread to seek out if not a peaceful solution at least a diffusion of hostilities.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:52:00 - [13] Originally by: Bu Jinkan Edited by: Bu Jinkan on 29/07/2006 05:08:26 They are all cool. This is a serious post. This my main. I do not speak for Goonswarm and I am not a director. I only speak for myself. I certainly hope Goonswarm doesn't swarm this thread. And I hope Bob can cool their heads long enough to listen. I have been a member of Goonswarm for 3 months. A lot of them are cool guys, a few of them like to stir up trouble. I am sure every alliance and corp have these kinds of people in them. An unfunny joke was told and exposed to these forums. I personally am sorry this happened and I do honestly feel remorse for any of Smoske's friends and family that were exposed to it. But, to be honest I didn't even know the whole story on Smoske until this whole issue came to a head. Most of the Goons do not either. It happened before our time. I didn't even know the meaning of the offending signature. I came to play a game. I even enjoy reading the politics! It is interesting. But this level of hostility crosses the line, on all 3 sides. I just ask the parties in involved to take a step back, breathe, and try to put the genie back in the bottle. Shooting each other in a space ship game is for fun! Shooting each in a space ship game in hatred isn't. Please Please Please Goonswarm forum warriors, do not post in this thread. These are my feelings and mine alone. Once again, I do not speak for Goonswarm. These are my thoughts alone. I hope my words show at least a little merit for consideration. At least keep the smack out of this thread. For the Mods sake. You tolerate and support the trash that started this incident. The trash in question CONTINUE, to this day, to repeat their offense. You have no idea just how much utter contempt you are held in by folks, simply for being in the same alliance with that trash. The idea that this will ever be a war with an objective of "good fights" is ludicrous. I've been with BoB for well over year now, and was with BNC before that. At no point have we ever had an opponent that is less respected than you are. We've fought great opponents and worms, but none match Goonswarm for raw simple disrepected loathing. No, you can't get away from what you did, and some of your members are continuing to do. You want to be able to be play for good fights and fun?? Leave Goonswarm. Play nice while you Butcher each other
Anti Derivative Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:52:00 - [14] Originally by: Sergeant Spot raarr rarrr arrr sooo angry rarrr you have no idea what you are talking about.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Ismern Originally by: Sergeant Spot To this DAY, Goonswarm members CONTINUE to mock the RL dead. Goonswarm apologies are utterly worthless. ANYONE willing to be IN goonswarm is trash. Not just "playing" trash. They ARE trash. When this first happened, it could be reasonable for a player to not approve of what was being said, and be innocent. As of this point, all in Goonswarm are WILLINGLY guilty by tolerating the trash. EVE becomes unfun due to people like you. Quit generalizing. If BoB wants to come attack GoonSwarm then that's fine, that's part of the game. But when members come here to "annihilate all of GoonSwarm" for the vindication of a few, then that's retarded. It's a game. It's time people started treating it like one. Whats going on here might be expressed in game, but it is not a game. If the trash you willingly tolerate among your members were face to face when they did their trash talk, they'd be physically beaten. Nothing "game" about it. The fact that it was stated over the internet while in a game does not reduce the seriousness at all. Play nice while you Butcher each other
Bu Jinkan Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:57:00 - [16] Edited by: Bu Jinkan on 29/07/2006 06:02:20 Yet you continue to smack talk, in a thread where it is requested not to. You are acting out a prime example of what Goons really do hate, a complete stranger on the internet telling them how they should conduct their free time. How would you react if some complete stranger told you what to do in your game? I highly doubt you would react kindly. Most likely you would act condescendingly as you are now. I know the majority of BOB are not like you. I hope cooler heads previal in your corp and you step back a realize how arrogant you sound telling me how to conduct my business and who to associate with in an internet space game. I'll repeat myself once again, since you missed it the first time, the actions of the few do not equal the actions of the group. Put your predjudices aside for your own health. Being angry all the time is not healthy.
Ismern GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:01:00 - [17] Edited by: Ismern on 29/07/2006 06:01:26 Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Ismern Originally by: Sergeant Spot To this DAY, Goonswarm members CONTINUE to mock the RL dead. Goonswarm apologies are utterly worthless. ANYONE willing to be IN goonswarm is trash. Not just "playing" trash. They ARE trash. When this first happened, it could be reasonable for a player to not approve of what was being said, and be innocent. As of this point, all in Goonswarm are WILLINGLY guilty by tolerating the trash. EVE becomes unfun due to people like you. Quit generalizing. If BoB wants to come attack GoonSwarm then that's fine, that's part of the game. But when members come here to "annihilate all of GoonSwarm" for the vindication of a few, then that's retarded. It's a game. It's time people started treating it like one. Whats going on here might be expressed in game, but it is not a game. If the trash you willingly tolerate among your members were face to face when they did their trash talk, they'd be physically beaten. Nothing "game" about it. The fact that it was stated over the internet while in a game does not reduce the seriousness at all. No, because unlike you, I have tact. I may not agree with what was said, and I've voiced my disapproval of it. But this is a game, and for that reason I will not leave my alliance just because of something someone said. I may lose respect for them, or have a different opinion of them, but I enjoy playing the game and I enjoy playing it in the position that I'm in. So do us all a favor and stop posting. ----------------------------------------------------------- The winners of EVE have spoken. Let's all quit GoonSwarm and go to Empire while we still have some ISK left.
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:05:00 - [18] Your personal apologies are meaningless. They are words without action. If you believed in something being wrong, you'd do something about it. Maybe its the fear of going against your SA/Goon community's stance on the issue, but they certainly aren't sorry and never will be. That much has been said, at the very least. A public apology was issued and later revealed by the very same people as a mere ploy to quell BoB. Do you think we're stupid? Its not even about the "joke" anymore, its the arrogance to think you could come to EVE and infect it with your specific brand of internet delinquency. PVP is only fun when theres a goal, and I would sooner camp your tech 1 ghettomobiles from dusk to dawn (pun intended) than have a hearty bash with some respectable pilots. The grief makes me hard. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Bu Jinkan Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:05:00 - [19] Edited by: Bu Jinkan on 29/07/2006 06:05:36 Ismersn Please stop smacking. You are as guilty as he is. You are telling him what he should and should not do and derailing the purpose of this thread. Please symphathize with what I am attempting here and keep the insults and suggestions in chekc and provide civil discourse. Thank you. QUIT TAUNTING BOB MEMBERS IN MY THREAD!!
Rutta GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:05:00 - [20] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Goonswarm apologies are utterly worthless. ANYONE willing to be IN goonswarm is trash. Not just "playing" trash. They ARE trash. When this first happened, it could be reasonable for a player to not approve of what was being said, and be innocent. As of this point, all in Goonswarm are WILLINGLY guilty by tolerating the trash. EVE becomes unfun due to people like you. Quit generalizing. If BoB wants to come attack GoonSwarm then that's fine, that's part of the game. But when members come here to "annihilate all of GoonSwarm" for the vindication of a few, then that's retarded. It's a game. It's time people started treating it like one. Whats going on here might be expressed in game, but it is not a game. If the trash you willingly tolerate among your members were face to face when they did their trash talk, they'd be physically beaten. Nothing "game" about it. The fact that it was stated over the internet while in a game does not reduce the seriousness at all. Are you going to Kickbox us when you come to our homes to physically beat us because of a space video game? Just asking.
Anti Derivative Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:08:00 - [21] Edited by: Anti Derivative on 29/07/2006 06:08:30 Originally by: DigitalCommunist Its not even about the "joke" anymore, its the arrogance to think you could come to EVE and infect it with your specific brand of internet delinquency. Think? We have. And the way you are freaking out about it is pretty much hilarious.
Ismern GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:08:00 - [22] Originally by: Bu Jinkan Edited by: Bu Jinkan on 29/07/2006 06:05:36 Ismersn Please stop smacking. You are as guilty as he is. You are telling him what he should and should not do and derailing the purpose of this thread. Please symphathize with what I am attempting here and keep the insults and suggestions in chekc and provide civil discourse. Thank you. QUIT TAUNTING BOB MEMBERS IN MY THREAD!! This isn't smack. It's common sense. I agree with many of the BoB members. The things that were said were just plain wrong. What I don't agree with are those who come here and say that every single one of us is trash and don't deserve to play the game. Unfortunately, the voice of reason is lost on most. ----------------------------------------------------------- The winners of EVE have spoken. Let's all quit GoonSwarm and go to Empire while we still have some ISK left.
Bu Jinkan Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:13:00 - [23] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Your personal apologies are meaningless. They are words without action. If you believed in something being wrong, you'd do something about it. Maybe its the fear of going against your SA/Goon community's stance on the issue, but they certainly aren't sorry and never will be. That much has been said, at the very least. A public apology was issued and later revealed by the very same people as a mere ploy to quell BoB. Do you think we're stupid? Its not even about the "joke" anymore, its the arrogance to think you could come to EVE and infect it with your specific brand of internet delinquency. PVP is only fun when theres a goal, and I would sooner camp your tech 1 ghettomobiles from dusk to dawn (pun intended) than have a hearty bash with some respectable pilots. The grief makes me hard. I do not fear you or Goonswarm. Actually I don't fear anyone on the internet. Becuase, quite frankly, an internet game is not real life. I am glad you enjoy camping and griefing, your words not mine. And words have meaning. I find is disheartening to be lectured by a member of BOB about arrogance. As a goon I want to rebel against your idea that somehow you "own" EVE. Last I checked EVE does not equal BOB. My words may have no meaning to you, but I am not seaking your approval, I am just letting my feelings be know to my corp publicly and the EVE forum browsers at large. Posting here is my action. Discount it if you wish, that is your porogative. By all means pops our newbie frigs until your blue in the face, if that is what makes the game fun for you. But drop the posturing.
Bu Jinkan Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:16:00 - [24] Originally by: Ismern Originally by: Bu Jinkan Edited by: Bu Jinkan on 29/07/2006 06:05:36 Ismersn Please stop smacking. You are as guilty as he is. You are telling him what he should and should not do and derailing the purpose of this thread. Please symphathize with what I am attempting here and keep the insults and suggestions in chekc and provide civil discourse. Thank you. QUIT TAUNTING BOB MEMBERS IN MY THREAD!! This isn't smack. It's common sense. I agree with many of the BoB members. The things that were said were just plain wrong. What I don't agree with are those who come here and say that every single one of us is trash and don't deserve to play the game. Unfortunately, the voice of reason is lost on most. I am totally on your side and I feel that same as you, but poking Spot with a stick everytime he says something emotionally inflamitory just brings youself down to his level. I know you have better self control than to let him bait you.
Irizumi	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:16:00 - [25] Edited by: Irizumi on 29/07/2006 06:16:36
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:17:00 - [26] Just for you Ismern, I will explain it once again. Your personal stance and personal apologies are meaningless, when you still remain in the corporation that condones, supports and encourages such behaviour. Not only do you remain in it, but you fight for it and back the people who started it. I don't know which alternate universe would have me believe someone so hypocritical has the right to talk about reason, but its not EVE. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Ismern GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:19:00 - [27] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Just for you Ismern, I will explain it once again. Your personal stance and personal apologies are meaningless, when you still remain in the corporation that condones, supports and encourages such behaviour. Not only do you remain in it, but you fight for it and back the people who started it. I don't know which alternate universe would have me believe someone so hypocritical has the right to talk about reason, but its not EVE. And just for you DigitalCommunist, I will explain it once again. THIS IS A GAME Here endeth my arguing with the close-minded. ----------------------------------------------------------- The winners of EVE have spoken. Let's all quit GoonSwarm and go to Empire while we still have some ISK left.
Swinton Wolsoncroft GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:21:00 - [28] Gents, the guy is a sergeant, he's totally in over his paygrade. On the other hand, we would all do well to avoid him on the street, lest we recieve a sound beating.
Trepkos Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:30:00 - [29] Originally by: Ismern Originally by: DigitalCommunist Just for you Ismern, I will explain it once again. Your personal stance and personal apologies are meaningless, when you still remain in the corporation that condones, supports and encourages such behaviour. Not only do you remain in it, but you fight for it and back the people who started it. I don't know which alternate universe would have me believe someone so hypocritical has the right to talk about reason, but its not EVE. And just for you DigitalCommunist, I will explain it once again. THIS IS A GAME Here endeth my arguing with the close-minded. Yes, it is a game. But it is also a MMORPG, and just try and guess what the RPG stands for? -------- ANGEL DEEP CORPORATION
McDeth187 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:33:00 - [30] Its pretty funny how much hate can come from an on-line game. Stop beating the dead horse.
Bu Jinkan Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:34:00 - [31] Trepkos, Your hatred for Ismern is duly noted. Please stop smack talk in my thread. If you have any positive input on how to decrease hostilities between Bob, GS, and D@ please stay, if not please leave this thread alone. Insulting people does not put you in a good light.
Anti Derivative Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:34:00 - [32] holy nerd-rage!
Toffles GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:34:00 - [33] Originally by: Sergeant Spot anger Give it a rest already. We've gone through 5 lengthy threads repeating the same arguments. Both sides need to shut up and play the stupid game already. Everyone has made up their minds, posting in these threads is just a waste of time.
Trepkos Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:35:00 - [34] Originally by: Bu Jinkan Trepkos, Your hatred for Ismern is duly noted. Please stop smack talk in my thread. End yourself. -------- ANGEL DEEP CORPORATION
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:38:00 - [35] SA is based on the sole premise that nothing should be taken seriously, ever. So while I'm sure in your community the words "its just a game man" are the derogatory equivalent of calling their spouse a prostitute, to me they aren't. I don't need reminder of that fact, nor do I wanna argue it and end up having 500 Goons all agreeing with each other how I take it more seriously than them. Guess you'll have to take my word for it? I've got enough Internet fame to do that. But for all your reminders, I still don't know which part of "EVE: The Game" encourages the level of bleating and whining only seen eminating from the bowels of GoonSwarm. Who knows, maybe one day they'll make the Abrasive Nublar mini-profession a reality. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Andre Carnegi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:38:00 - [36] Originally by: Trepkos Originally by: Bu Jinkan Trepkos, Your hatred for Ismern is duly noted. Please stop smack talk in my thread. End yourself. Come on, I know you are capable of finding better things to do than suggesting people kill themselves over the internet.
Anti Derivative Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:38:00 - [37] Originally by: Trepkos Yes, it is a game. But it is also a MMORPG, and just try and guess what the RPG stands for? I only role play a meek camel herder/strip club owner so i don't pretend to pretend to be explosively angry all the time.
Bu Jinkan Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:38:00 - [38] Originally by: Trepkos Originally by: Bu Jinkan Trepkos, Your hatred for Ismern is duly noted. Please stop smack talk in my thread. End yourself. Thanks for the suggestion. From here on out any and all of your input in this thread will be ignored. Hopefully a mod will clean up this thread by removing your involvement. Thank you for your time.
Franky B Mentally Unstable Enterprises	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:40:00 - [39] I think the past few days have made it abundantly clear that this isnt BOB VS GS or D2 VS GS. This is the eve community feeling that GS as a whole, represents a style of gameplay or a mindset that they explicity want to avoid and are gladdened that their most "outspoken" representatives (in the form of the major alliances) have taken a stance against this. alot of people play this game on a level just a bit beyond "for fun". they've played it long enough and with the same group of friends that its a tad bit more serious. so when a relativley young yet massive group of players enters the arena with a "YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAW" attitude, alot of people are taken aback.
Andre Carnegi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:40:00 - [40] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Guess you'll have to take my word for it? I've got enough Internet fame to do that. Dude, congratulations on your internet fame. Also, give my regards to the internet.
Anti Derivative Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:40:00 - [41] Anyone need Camels?
Bu Jinkan Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:43:00 - [42] Edited by: Bu Jinkan on 29/07/2006 06:44:54 Originally by: DigitalCommunist SA is based on the sole premise that nothing should be taken seriously, ever. So while I'm sure in your community the words "its just a game man" are the derogatory equivalent of calling their spouse a prostitute, to me they aren't. I don't need reminder of that fact, nor do I wanna argue it and end up having 500 Goons all agreeing with each other how I take it more seriously than them. Guess you'll have to take my word for it? I've got enough Internet fame to do that. But for all your reminders, I still don't know which part of "EVE: The Game" encourages the level of bleating and whining only seen eminating from the bowels of GoonSwarm. Who knows, maybe one day they'll make the Abrasive Nublar mini-profession a reality. Well I appreciate the fact that you seemed to at least tried to lower the vitrol in your discourse, but you dropped the ball at the end with your Abrasive Nublar quote. Needless to say, you really don't seem to understand SA at all, at least based off the statement you just made. If you assumptions are what make you hate my corp there is little I can do to change your mind, you seem set in your ways. A word of advice howerver, I wouldn't dare to think that those that post in this specific subforum really represent the majority of BoB. I am suprised to find that you judge the majority of GoonSwarm on the actions of our own forum whorriors.
Anti Derivative Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:43:00 - [43] Internet. Superstar.
Toffles GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:46:00 - [44] Edited by: Toffles on 29/07/2006 06:48:42 Originally by: Sergeant Spot If the trash you willingly tolerate among your members were face to face when they did their trash talk, they'd be physically beaten. Nothing "game" about it. Ok, I'm going to tell you something that apparently your parents never taught you. IT IS NEVER OKAY TO THREATEN VIOLENCE. Bob has repeatedly threatened physical violence against tetsujin, and against our entire alliance membership. You guys talk about driving over to our houses and physically assaulting us, or "leveling" us when you see us in real life. The fact that you and other bob members continue threatening us with REAL physical violence over insults is disgusting. Grow up.
Andre Carnegi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:47:00 - [45] Originally by: Toffles Originally by: Sergeant Spot If the trash you willingly tolerate among your members were face to face when they did their trash talk, they'd be physically beaten. Nothing "game" about it. Ok, I'll going to tell you something that apparently your parents never taught you. IT IS NEVER OKAY TO THREATEN VIOLENCE. Bob has repeatedly threatened physical violence against tetsujin, and against our entire alliance membership. You guys talk about driving over to our houses and physically assaulting us, or "leveling" us when you see us in real life. The fact that you and other bob members continue threatening us with REAL physical violence over insults is disgusting. Grow up. Excuse me, if you kickboxed and socialized as much as they do, you'd need a hearty dose of blood to get though the day.
Swedish Bob	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:47:00 - [46] Originally by: Trepkos Yes, it is a game. But it is also a MMORPG, and just try and guess what the RPG stands for? Really Primadona Gamers? But I don't see why some BoB have such a sense of self righteousness about this. Every alliance has a few *****s. I don't see the other alliances tossing someone every time someone takes offence to something. And if they did I would really have to question if it was a worth while alliance if something so shallow would cause members to turn on one another. As far as GS being trash goes though, it really doesn't matter. Nobody in GS cares whether BoB thinks we are trash or not. I'm fine with my behavior and while I'm sure some goons are jerks in general I think they behave no worse than many of the other alliances. They are just more up front about it.
Anti Derivative Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:49:00 - [47] Edited by: Anti Derivative on 29/07/2006 06:50:18 if i was to open the newpaper one day and read about a huge real life gang fight happening at some video game convention over in game issues i would probably need a sedative to curb my uncontrollable laughter.
Bu Jinkan Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:51:00 - [48] As much as I enjoy the little quips(and they are funny) they are really counter productive to what this thread is for. Please try to keep it to civil discourse. Our sense of humour has already seemed to ruffle some people feathers.
Rebellion Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:54:00 - [49] This is a game. I really wanted to like the goons. In fact, if you search my recent post history, I was supporting them quite vocally. The goons are not the only "SA goons" playing EVE. SA has had a long prescence in the internet, I've probably been a real goon longer than many of your younger members have. When the initial affront was made months ago it was ugly. However, apologies were made. We pretty much accepted it and just wrote down somehwere that Remedial is a juvenile attention *****. Recent events, however, have made us find out that even up to this dat, inside GoonSwarm, the original bad joke lives, and there is no actual remorse inside of the group. This made a lot of people very angry. We had been played for fools. There we were supporting you in your first major battle with large alliances, thinking that you were approaching EVE in the same way we started years ago. Finding out that your depravity in humor honors no decency turned us around completely. Any apology that gets repeated or made right now will fall on ears that no longer believe whatever GoonSwarm says. Furthermore, some of your more prominent "leaders" had even suggested the ridiculous idea that we were the ones at fault for enraging some of your members enough to act that way. Seriously, if you believe that, there's something wrong with you in the head. I'm not surprised why they say that they don't really get what the fuss is about because they don't seem to be in the right frame of mind in the first place to have made such ludicrous conclusions. The goons so far have not acted as real goons. The goons I know and had been a part of for several years now understand genuine humor. They also know when things aren't so funny and when reality sets in they do their share, such as buy equipment for soldiers that get sent to the front in reality. I thought that since you were calling yourselves GoonSwarm, you were like those. But now I see rehashed humor that is no longer funny (chewbacca defenses are really too old to be amusing anymore, and we aren't laughing because we don't get it, it's because they are really not funny anymore), and I really don't know what it is I am looking at. Lately we have seen forum trolling from the goons in a massive degree. I frankly won't be surprised if the moderators start banning a lot of your membership because they don't seem to want to be controlled by things such as decency and proper conduct. I still believe that there are a lot of goons that are genuine people, not hiding behind any facade of pretense. Real goons that aren't ashamed to be real people. However, GoonSwarm as it is right now is not a representative of that. The leadership alone has only treated EVE with contempt, using logic to derail discussions and troll around. This is a game. Why don't you start trying to play it in order to enjoy it, rather than pwn it by thrashing about out of control. I have seen goons ruin other games before EVE, this seems to be the intent right now. Some of you want to just pwn eve for the rights to say that you did, and then probably leave it for WoW after it stops becoming interesting. This is a game, but we all deal with real people. It seems that goons saying "this is a game" only really means that they can stop acting like real people when they play it. It is sad really, I wanted to see what Goonswarm would turn into. I never wanted to see that it was rotten at its core. Now that knowledge occludes all other things. I think it's unfair mostly to the goons that genuinely want to enjoy this game.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:55:00 - [50] Originally by: Ismern Originally by: DigitalCommunist Just for you Ismern, I will explain it once again. Your personal stance and personal apologies are meaningless, when you still remain in the corporation that condones, supports and encourages such behaviour. Not only do you remain in it, but you fight for it and back the people who started it. I don't know which alternate universe would have me believe someone so hypocritical has the right to talk about reason, but its not EVE. And just for you DigitalCommunist, I will explain it once again. THIS IS A GAME Here endeth my arguing with the close-minded. And if your mother died from a painful slow type of cancer, and I KNOWINGLY made jokes about it, and my corp CONTINUED to make jokes about it even when we were called on it, it would still be just "a game". All perfectly ok. Correct??? Am I understanding you correctly??? I really want an answer. Play nice while you Butcher each other
Demon Knight GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:56:00 - [51] Originally by: DigitalCommunist I've got enough Internet fame to do that. how do i become internet superstar. p.s where did the last 3 years of your life go? oh wai internet superstardom sad fact is eve is insignificant and so is your accomplishments so far. in the words of stavr0s "End Yourself"
Cattraknoff Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:00:00 - [52] Edited by: Cattraknoff on 29/07/2006 07:00:29 I think a new record is going to be set for people banned in a week. (from the forum)
Bu Jinkan Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:02:00 - [53] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Ismern Originally by: DigitalCommunist Just for you Ismern, I will explain it once again. Your personal stance and personal apologies are meaningless, when you still remain in the corporation that condones, supports and encourages such behaviour. Not only do you remain in it, but you fight for it and back the people who started it. I don't know which alternate universe would have me believe someone so hypocritical has the right to talk about reason, but its not EVE. And just for you DigitalCommunist, I will explain it once again. THIS IS A GAME Here endeth my arguing with the close-minded. And if your mother died from a painful slow type of cancer, and I KNOWINGLY made jokes about it, and my corp CONTINUED to make jokes about it even when we were called on it, it would still be just "a game". All perfectly ok. Correct??? Am I understanding you correctly??? I really want an answer. No it is not ok. Yes those that are in Goonswarm that do it are jackasses. Understand, this is not some plea for peace to get you to stop attacking Syndicate, most of us are looking forward to the fights. This thread is an attempt to get people to move past what was a tatseless joke about a subject that 99% of goonfleet know very little about. Tone down the angry and talk to the resonable ones in our group. The *******s in Goonswarm are just punching your buttons for a laugh, don't them.
Shiraz Merlot Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:03:00 - [54] As with any corporation, you are jointly and severally liable. A legal phrase meaning "tarred with the same brush". You can't opt-out of the treatment your colleagues bring upon you - you have to leave the company. /sm
Irizumi	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:06:00 - [55] Originally by: Shiraz Merlot As with any corporation, you are jointly and severally liable. A legal phrase meaning "tarred with the same brush". You can't opt-out of the treatment your colleagues bring upon you - you have to leave the company. /sm Actually no, I don't go to jail if Ken Lay cooks the books. Use some common sense. Stop posturing and move past this.
Andre Carnegi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:07:00 - [56] Originally by: Shiraz Merlot As with any corporation, you are jointly and severally liable. A legal phrase meaning "tarred with the same brush". You can't opt-out of the treatment your colleagues bring upon you - you have to leave the company. /sm We don't tar and feather anymore. Collective punishment is illogical, unfair, and ineffective. Regardless, I don't think the EVE Constitution states anywhere that we are "severally liable," and I'll fight you to the EVE Supreme Court (Not to be confused with David Robinson's Supreme Court) on this one.
Bu Jinkan Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:09:00 - [57] I am going to bed, doubtlessly this thread will have been put to bed by the mods. Well, at least consider this for posterity. It was Goon that tried to do the right thing. good night.
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:09:00 - [58] For those of you who keep saying "it's just a game" as an excuse to act in the anti-social manner you've adopted, consider that this is 3 year old community, not just a game. You can tease and ridicule as much as you want, saying that we take this too seriously. But you aren't offending some blip on a screen, you're offending real life friends, and well known members of a global community. People have said earlier that these alliances are threatened by Goonfleet, and that is why we are fighting. Tbh, I am threatened by them, but not because they are a threat to my avatar in game, I consider them a threat to the community that I'm a part of.
Rebellion Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:15:00 - [59] Edited by: Rebellion on 29/07/2006 07:17:22 Originally by: Bu Jinkan No it is not ok. Yes those that are in Goonswarm that do it are jackasses. Understand, this is not some plea for peace to get you to stop attacking Syndicate, most of us are looking forward to the fights. This thread is an attempt to get people to move past what was a tatseless joke about a subject that 99% of goonfleet know very little about. Tone down the angry and talk to the resonable ones in our group. The *******s in Goonswarm are just punching your buttons for a laugh, don't them. The reasonable ones in your group seem to be very reasonable actually. However, you are also very irresponsible. You are basically telling us that yes, there are jerks in your ranks, we should just ignore them. And then what? Have them continoue on acting as jerks? We will go after them, and we will go after you because you are supporting them. Does being a goon mean that you are irresponsible? If you do not want to take responsibility for the actions of the people in your corporation and alliance, we will make you take responsibility. They obviously do not care because this is "just a game". I can say this right back at you: if you think that what your people are saying is wrong, then get them to stop. If you are not willing to take responsibility for it, then don't complain when you have to face the consequences. We are people with real lives and real jobs. We play EVE because we enjoy playing with friends. We know this is a game. A lot of your membership seems to be so obsessed in proving that they are above the game by acting poorly in it. "Hey look, this really isn't important because I'm spitting at it". Who are you proving this to? This thread isn't about a goon trying to do the right thing. It's about a goon trying to escape responsibility.
Pwadoc	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:21:00 - [60] Originally by: Rebellion This is a game. Your CEO took what was a personal issue with a few people and brought it to a public forum in a loud, accusatory manner. He didn't seek any private redress with the people involved as far as I know, instead he chose to try to solve his problem with childish, immature behavior. His ill-considered response provoked a great deal of anger amongst our community, and as could be expected, some of them reacted in equally childish ways. There is a lot of genuine anger now, on both sides. Most of the goons I speak to are absolutely furious. You can keep speaking to morality and basic taste, but consider for a moment that the perspective you are attempting to communicate is inherently subjective. The point where the line is crossed, for me, is when someone takes action to impose their morality on others. BoB has crossed that line, not Goonfleet.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:23:00 - [61] Originally by: Bu Jinkan Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Ismern Originally by: DigitalCommunist Just for you Ismern, I will explain it once again. Your personal stance and personal apologies are meaningless, when you still remain in the corporation that condones, supports and encourages such behaviour. Not only do you remain in it, but you fight for it and back the people who started it. I don't know which alternate universe would have me believe someone so hypocritical has the right to talk about reason, but its not EVE. And just for you DigitalCommunist, I will explain it once again. THIS IS A GAME Here endeth my arguing with the close-minded. And if your mother died from a painful slow type of cancer, and I KNOWINGLY made jokes about it, and my corp CONTINUED to make jokes about it even when we were called on it, it would still be just "a game". All perfectly ok. Correct??? Am I understanding you correctly??? I really want an answer. No it is not ok. Yes those that are in Goonswarm that do it are jackasses. Understand, this is not some plea for peace to get you to stop attacking Syndicate, most of us are looking forward to the fights. This thread is an attempt to get people to move past what was a tatseless joke about a subject that 99% of goonfleet know very little about. Tone down the angry and talk to the resonable ones in our group. The *******s in Goonswarm are just punching your buttons for a laugh, don't them. WHY THE GOD DAMN HELL ARE YOU STILL IN GOONSWARM WITH SUCH PEOPLE?????? I LEFT BNC for about a year over a matter of principle that was trivial by comparison (a resolved issue now that is peacefully dead). Do you have any sense of ethics at all? The thing that is driving me nuts is simple shock at the way you seem to think this is a non-issue. I simply cannot wrap my mind around how a person with a shred of self respect could continus to be in the same corp as the trash who started this, and CONTINUE it. Why do you "willingly" associate yourself with them??? There is plenty that I've been irritated with in BoB, but I hold my tougue unless it is something serious. In two years (3 counting the one I was semi-solo playing during) there has been "one" serious issue. On that issue I stood my ground, and willingly invited and accepted the consequences of my stand. I parted with BNC with some anger, but also respect. After leaving I was complimented by several ranking BNC over the stand I took, even if they did not agree entirely with me. The Goons, on the other hand, don't take stands that might rock the Goon boat, not even for issues like this. And THAT is why you are being treated as utter worthless trash. We have enemies in this game that we loath due to lame playing style. In your case, your playing style is a non-issue, as you've made it very very clear what sort of people you are. You could have the most awe inspiring playing style seen in game yet, and you would still be the ultimate spineless worms. We sometimes joke about "internal issues" with alliances, but in your case it is serious. You seem utterly incapable of dealing with the issue, and are thus held accountable, like it or not. Play nice while you Butcher each other
torN Deception GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:27:00 - [62] Moderators, please ban every single Goonswarm member from ever posting anything on the corp discussion forum ever again(except maybe me).
Rebellion Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:27:00 - [63] Yes, but we aren't the ones that continues to dishonor the memory of a friend long after supposedly apologizing for it, then arguing that it is their moral right to be able to do so, and having their more sensible members wash their halds of all responsibility for the actions of their alliance. I don't think that a lot of your membership is angry about this. I think they are amused at being able to troll the rest of us into getting mad. It's an internet victory for the goons to be able to trample on things that people give importance to. It is the height of achievement to ridicule those who are affected by it. Congratulations, you've made us angry enough to want to wipe out your entire alliance from the face of EVE. We haven't been this motivated in a long time. Old members are even starting to come back.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:29:00 - [64] BoB Kicks out members for less than those worms did. Far less. Play nice while you Butcher each other
Andre Carnegi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:29:00 - [65] Originally by: Rebellion Congratulations, you've made us angry enough to want to wipe out your entire alliance from the face of EVE. We haven't been this motivated in a long time. Old members are even starting to come back. I'm sorry you've found new power for your alliance in the death of one you considered a friend. I wish you could find a better way to honor his memory.
Pwadoc	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:36:00 - [66] Edited by: Pwadoc on 29/07/2006 07:36:51 Originally by: Rebellion Yes, but we aren't the ones that continues to dishonor the memory of a friend long after supposedly apologizing for it, then arguing that it is their moral right to be able to do so, and having their more sensible members wash their halds of all responsibility for the actions of their alliance. I don't think that a lot of your membership is angry about this. I think they are amused at being able to troll the rest of us into getting mad. It's an internet victory for the goons to be able to trample on things that people give importance to. It is the height of achievement to ridicule those who are affected by it. Congratulations, you've made us angry enough to want to wipe out your entire alliance from the face of EVE. We haven't been this motivated in a long time. Old members are even starting to come back. Believe me, a lot of people, including me, are genuinely angry. Why? Because the proper response, when you hear something you don't like, is not to go and bully the person who said it into an apology, and definitely not to attempt to destroy the organization they belong to. You deal with your personal problems privately, without violence and threats. If SirMolle had evemailed Tutsujin, explaining why the sig upset him, Tet most likely would have apologized, felt like ****, and removed the sig.
Dolvich GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:38:00 - [67] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Bu Jinkan Edited by: Bu Jinkan on 29/07/2006 05:08:26 You tolerate and support the trash that started this incident. The trash in question CONTINUE, to this day, to repeat their offense. You have no idea just how much utter contempt you are held in by folks, simply for being in the same alliance with that trash. The idea that this will ever be a war with an objective of "good fights" is ludicrous. I've been with BoB for well over year now, and was with BNC before that. At no point have we ever had an opponent that is less respected than you are. We've fought great opponents and worms, but none match Goonswarm for raw simple disrepected loathing. No, you can't get away from what you did, and some of your members are continuing to do. You want to be able to be play for good fights and fun?? Leave Goonswarm. By your logic: All Muslims are crazy suicide bombers because a few are terrorists All Germans are Jew killing ****s because of what happened 60 years ago All Lebanese people deserve to be bombed to death by Israel because a minority supports Hezbollah All Christians still believe the world is flat because of crazy fundies who don't believe in evolution All Japanese men have small... feet Judging an entire group because of the actions of a few is not only stupid, but morally reprehensible. Hate only begets more hate. You choose to direct your hate at all of GS, as opposed to just the few individuals actually responsible. Is it any surprise that Goons, who had absolutely nothing to do with the entire situation want to defend themsleves? And by doing so, this has caused you to hate even more to the point where you have insinuated physical violence against people. I actually feel quite sorry for you. Your intense hatred towards people completely innocent of any wrongdoing embodies something that I feel is very wrong in the world today, and the cause of much real life violence. I'd much rather have a socially inept idiot who makes inaappropriate jokes from time to time in my Alliance than a generalizing bigot any day of the week.
Jargoon GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:41:00 - [68] Originally by: Rebellion I don't think that a lot of your membership is angry about this. I think they are amused at being able to troll the rest of us into getting mad. It's an internet victory for the goons to be able to trample on things that people give importance to. It is the height of achievement to ridicule those who are affected by it. So why don't you kill our amusement by not continuing to bring it up in every thread? In-game conduct between the alliances has been smack-free and fun, I wish the forum warriors would follow that example.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:41:00 - [69] In Eve, you and your leadership are responsible for your copilots. People like some of the asshats that you have in Goonfleet simply wouldn't be able to operate in BoB due to a smacking from the leadership. But none of it really matters, if you enjoy playing with asshats then by all means continue. It just gives us more targets. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Toffles GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:42:00 - [70] Edited by: Toffles on 29/07/2006 07:42:35 Originally by: Sergeant Spot BoB Kicks out members for less than those worms did. Far less. Really? So in your twisted rule book threatening people with real life violence is totally acceptable while insulting someone is much worse. You can say that we are some kind of twisted culture with no values but the fact is what you have done is universally seen as worse than what we have done. Death threats, threats of physical violence, assault, and battery are punished in nearly every society with restraint orders and jail time. As for someone insulting another person? Not so much.
Rebellion Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:43:00 - [71] I'm sorry, but we wouldn't have believed that any apology was genuine anymore. Even if the goons publically apologized, a lot of you have stated that you are within your right to snipe back at us in your internal forums, basically making any apology a farce, something you pulled over us. Furthermore, you have shown yourselves willing to be led by a leader that posts things entitled "The Final Solution". As much as I dislike guilt by association, you are culpable by allowing that to happen and supporting someone who has that much contempt at things that many people don't find funny. Ignorance would have been bliss, but I think things like this were bound to come outinto the open for as long as the goons didn't see a need to change how they acted. A lot of you still believe that you have not done anything wrong, and have no responsibility whatsoever. There can be no forgiveness without proper and honest remorse.
Kokayeena Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:47:00 - [72] I think everyone here is simply missing the point. I, and hopefully everyone else in goonfleet, regardless of their opinion, can understand why you would be righteously angry at Remedial and another goon for what they did pre-goonfleet. We also don't mind that you're attacking us, some of us have wondered for ages when we'll get into a serious conflict with you. What we do mind is the brainless posturing and accusations of one of our members seriously joking the deceased, all stemming from a screenshot you have kept under your wings for months that wasn't even correctly interpreted. If you'd just discovered and posted it I'd understand your lack of comprehension, but its a four month old screenshot from our private forums, a place other corporations and alliances are not welcome, and this is a prime example of why. Tetsujin never joked Smoske, and kicking him from the corp for it would have been reprehensibly irresponsible. We can't kowtow to you simply because you demand it, and the next few months should prove very interesting, so I wish BoB good fights and that's all, but I hope some of you come to understand that the circumstances you scream about, the "dishonoring" of a fallen friend, are not only ridiculous, but completely untrue.
Rebellion Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:51:00 - [73] Originally by: Jargoon So why don't you kill our amusement by not continuing to bring it up in every thread? In-game conduct between the alliances has been smack-free and fun, I wish the forum warriors would follow that example. Because we are not out to kill your amusement. If it were left to me, I would have rather seen the goons grow into a formidable player in alliance warfare that we could eventually have strategi battles against. I did not wish that your membership would show how callously degenerate they are. The mere insinuation that we are using someone's death as political material to further our cause can only be a product of a twisted mind. Do you really think we needed to do such a thing to fight you? That mere suggestion sent a lot of tempers up the roof and it is all we can do to prevent people within our ranks from saying very strongly worded things. But we do police our ranks, we tell people to be calm. I have to personally remind them that goons are people too. However, the amount of trolling and the amount of nonsequitur conclusions made just for the purpose of scoring a forum victory by a lot of your membership that clearly give too much importance to forum verbal jousting make it really hard for me to convince even myself that the goons might actually be good for something in EVE.
Pwadoc	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:53:00 - [74] Originally by: Rebellion I'm sorry, but we wouldn't have believed that any apology was genuine anymore. Even if the goons publically apologized, a lot of you have stated that you are within your right to snipe back at us in your internal forums, basically making any apology a farce, something you pulled over us. Furthermore, you have shown yourselves willing to be led by a leader that posts things entitled "The Final Solution". As much as I dislike guilt by association, you are culpable by allowing that to happen and supporting someone who has that much contempt at things that many people don't find funny. Ignorance would have been bliss, but I think things like this were bound to come outinto the open for as long as the goons didn't see a need to change how they acted. A lot of you still believe that you have not done anything wrong, and have no responsibility whatsoever. There can be no forgiveness without proper and honest remorse. I don't understand what exactly you want me to be remorseful about. I, like the vast majority of the people in goonfleet, didn't do anything. Goonfleet is a community which places a great deal of stock in freedom of expression. Not all of us agree with what is expressed, but we don't censor our membership in most cases because we believe that censorship is a greater evil than inappropriate speech. Freedom of speech is a moral issue for many people, not just a convenient political tool. I personally believe anyone should have the right to express whatever idea they want to, which is why I belong to the goon community. I found waht some of our memebers said very distasteful, but yes, I will defend their right to say it. It's always hardest to defend speech when it's ****'s or child molestors or racists doing the talking, but you defend it anyway because the act of censorship is a truly evil thing.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:55:00 - [75] Originally by: Dolvich By your logic: All Muslims are crazy suicide bombers because a few are terrorists All Germans are Jew killing ****s because of what happened 60 years ago All Lebanese people deserve to be bombed to death by Israel because a minority supports Hezbollah All Christians still believe the world is flat because of crazy fundies who don't believe in evolution All Japanese men have small... feet Judging an entire group because of the actions of a few is not only stupid, but morally reprehensible. Hate only begets more hate. You choose to direct your hate at all of GS, as opposed to just the few individuals actually responsible. Is it any surprise that Goons, who had absolutely nothing to do with the entire situation want to defend themsleves? And by doing so, this has caused you to hate even more to the point where you have insinuated physical violence against people. I actually feel quite sorry for you. Your intense hatred towards people completely innocent of any wrongdoing embodies something that I feel is very wrong in the world today, and the cause of much real life violence. I'd much rather have a socially inept idiot who makes inaappropriate jokes from time to time in my Alliance than a generalizing bigot any day of the week. During WWII all germans DID warrent having their country invaded, their armed forces utterly destroyed, their government utterly destroyed, and their senior leaders almost all put to death. By tolerating terrorist in their presense many muslims DO warrent having bombs dropped near them, even fatally close, due to WILLINGLY being near known terrorist. The Christain argument you make is stupid (I'm not Christain, I have no faith, but I get along fine with people who do). You are not being judged for simply being with extreme offensive idiots. You are being judged because "you" "personally" "CHOOSE" to "remain" associated with offensive idiots. Anyone can have the bad luck to be near an idiot when the idiot shows his true stupidity. What YOU "choose" to do then will dictate how you should be judged. Saying "I don't like what they said, but I'm staying with them and fighting at their side" does not fly very well. Play nice while you Butcher each other
Pwadoc	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:56:00 - [76] Originally by: Rebellion The mere insinuation that we are using someone's death as political material to further our cause can only be a product of a twisted mind. Do you really think we needed to do such a thing to fight you? That mere suggestion sent a lot of tempers up the roof and it is all we can do to prevent people within our ranks from saying very strongly worded things. But we do police our ranks, we tell people to be calm. I have to personally remind them that goons are people too. However, the amount of trolling and the amount of nonsequitur conclusions made just for the purpose of scoring a forum victory by a lot of your membership that clearly give too much importance to forum verbal jousting make it really hard for me to convince even myself that the goons might actually be good for something in EVE. The leaders of your alliance were the individuals who lost control of their emotions and brought this issue to these forums. The goon reaction is strong, but there are close to 3000 of us, and you ****ed us off.
Schlieren Altiprlayle GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:56:00 - [77] Originally by: Rebellion There can be no forgiveness without proper and honest remorse. Sticks and stones, gentle reader. . . sticks and stones. That which angers a person, who proudly would stand with those threatening physical violence because of words, has got to be a good thing. Meantime, I can drum up naught but pity. You'll be in my prayers. :~)
Andre Carnegi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:58:00 - [78] Edited by: Andre Carnegi on 29/07/2006 07:58:47 Originally by: Pwadoc Originally by: Rebellion The mere insinuation that we are using someone's death as political material to further our cause can only be a product of a twisted mind. Do you really think we needed to do such a thing to fight you? That mere suggestion sent a lot of tempers up the roof and it is all we can do to prevent people within our ranks from saying very strongly worded things. But we do police our ranks, we tell people to be calm. I have to personally remind them that goons are people too. However, the amount of trolling and the amount of nonsequitur conclusions made just for the purpose of scoring a forum victory by a lot of your membership that clearly give too much importance to forum verbal jousting make it really hard for me to convince even myself that the goons might actually be good for something in EVE. The leaders of your alliance were the individuals who lost control of their emotions and brought this issue to these forums. The goon reaction is strong, but there are close to 3000 of us, and you ****ed us off. Don't forget that the sig in question is four months old, and that BoB saw fit to present this in a public forum, and immediately threatened in-game action without asking for an apology.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:59:00 - [79] Edited by: DB Preacher on 29/07/2006 07:59:35 Don't forgot your actions and reactions happen now not 4 months ago. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Pwadoc	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:59:00 - [80] Edited by: Pwadoc on 29/07/2006 07:59:09 Originally by: Sergeant Spot Saying "I don't like what they said, but I'm staying with them and fighting at their side" does not fly very well. "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Mistakenly attributed to Voltaire much of the time, but it's the way I operate nonetheless.
Andre Carnegi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:01:00 - [81] Edited by: Andre Carnegi on 29/07/2006 08:01:59 Originally by: DB Preacher Edited by: DB Preacher on 29/07/2006 07:59:35 Don't forgot your actions and reactions happen now not 4 months ago. dbp Very good. And "don't forgot" that your alliance saw fit to treat this issue as a part of the game, rather than a real-life issue, only when it was convenient for them to do so.
Swinton Wolsoncroft GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:02:00 - [82] How do i argued forums??
Jargoon GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:02:00 - [83] Originally by: Rebellion Because we are not out to kill your amusement. If it were left to me, I would have rather seen the goons grow into a formidable player in alliance warfare that we could eventually have strategi battles against. I did not wish that your membership would show how callously degenerate they are. The mere insinuation that we are using someone's death as political material to further our cause can only be a product of a twisted mind. Do you really think we needed to do such a thing to fight you? That mere suggestion sent a lot of tempers up the roof and it is all we can do to prevent people within our ranks from saying very strongly worded things. But we do police our ranks, we tell people to be calm. I have to personally remind them that goons are people too. However, the amount of trolling and the amount of nonsequitur conclusions made just for the purpose of scoring a forum victory by a lot of your membership that clearly give too much importance to forum verbal jousting make it really hard for me to convince even myself that the goons might actually be good for something in EVE. I don't really care one way or another about this whole Smoske thing, I mean it's sad someone died but jeez I think everyone needs to stop and take a look at what they're saying here, put this issue behind them, take a deep breath, and get back to playing space game 12 hours a day like regular well-adjusted nerds ok
Jasharin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:04:00 - [84] Originally by: Swinton Wolsoncroft How do i argued forums?? Use logic to derail discussion.
ProphetGuru Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:04:00 - [85] Originally by: Pwadoc The leaders of your alliance were the individuals who lost control of their emotions and brought this issue to these forums. The goon reaction is strong, but there are close to 3000 of us, and you ****ed us off. the goon reaction was to kick the offending member in an attempt to placate us. when your pr offering was spat on, your response changed. since then, you have been reacting and behaving just as we expect. keep tossing out the one liners. keep trying to 'win' each of these threads. it will have no effect in the end. you are puppets. Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
Rebellion Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:05:00 - [86] Well, al I can say is that you have better be willing to put everything you can on the line to fight for what you think is right. BoB always fights all out. Since we have announced via several members that it is our intention to take this to a definite and final end, I hope you realize what that means. I hope you can last 2 weeks under the assault. I hope you can last a month. And I realy hope you can last a year. Because we can, and we will. It's not about scoring an internet victoy or being an internet hero. It's about us doing what we believe is the right thing to do. We don't want nor expect recognition for whatever we achieve. This is a game after all, and we know that even if we completely crush GoonSwarm to the ground, and crush the individual corps that fragment from it after they separate, and go after each individual pilot that had been a member of it at the time we decided to do so, that you would all still be perfectly safe and sound in the real world. This is a game, so we do not regret the slightest for telling you now that we will destroy you completely and utterly, because it is game destruction after all. I frankly don't see how you will enjoy this, but I know we will.
Pwadoc	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:10:00 - [87] Originally by: ProphetGuru Originally by: Pwadoc The leaders of your alliance were the individuals who lost control of their emotions and brought this issue to these forums. The goon reaction is strong, but there are close to 3000 of us, and you ****ed us off. the goon reaction was to kick the offending member in an attempt to placate us. when your pr offering was spat on, your response changed. since then, you have been reacting and behaving just as we expect. keep tossing out the one liners. keep trying to 'win' each of these threads. it will have no effect in the end. you are puppets. I'm not trying to 'win' anything. I'm trying to explain our perspective to you. SirMolle chose to post a aggressive, angry thread as a response. He threatened our whole alliance and, when one of our leaders apologized, outright rejected the apology. He did not attempt to contact the individual responsible for what angered him, he did not ask for an apology, he just let his anger rule his reactions and in doing so drew a lot of innocent people into this mess.
CalBar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:11:00 - [88] Originally by: Sergeant Spot WHY THE GOD DAMN HELL ARE YOU STILL IN GOONSWARM WITH SUCH PEOPLE?????? Personally, it's because playing with goons is much, much more fun than playing in any other alliance or corp. There is a better community, people are funny and creative, and we do some amazing things together. I have never, whilst playing the game, witnessed or heard anything mocking this dead guy. I saw it in a sig once, but it didn't bother me much because a) I don't know the guy, and b) I see it as a historical reminder of one of many, many dramabombs. 99% of goons playing this game are golden. 1% might be bad apples. That's a much better average than you get in most corps and alliances, so that's why we're playing. Personally, I think you're attacking Goonswarm because you are bored, no one will attack you, and you need something to do in the game. That you claim to do it in the name of someone that I imagine very few of you knew properly, let alone in real life, is just as insulting to his memory as any of the poor taste a few goons have shown, let alone disrespectful to the family and friends who were truly affected by his loss, who mourned for real, and actually cared for him on an emotional level. To be honest, it's sickening.
Pwadoc	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:12:00 - [89] Originally by: Rebellion Well, al I can say is that you have better be willing to put everything you can on the line to fight for what you think is right. BoB always fights all out. Since we have announced via several members that it is our intention to take this to a definite and final end, I hope you realize what that means. I hope you can last 2 weeks under the assault. I hope you can last a month. And I realy hope you can last a year. Because we can, and we will. It's not about scoring an internet victoy or being an internet hero. It's about us doing what we believe is the right thing to do. We don't want nor expect recognition for whatever we achieve. This is a game after all, and we know that even if we completely crush GoonSwarm to the ground, and crush the individual corps that fragment from it after they separate, and go after each individual pilot that had been a member of it at the time we decided to do so, that you would all still be perfectly safe and sound in the real world. This is a game, so we do not regret the slightest for telling you now that we will destroy you completely and utterly, because it is game destruction after all. I frankly don't see how you will enjoy this, but I know we will. I won't enjoy it. I'll probably quit the game if you do that. Does that make you happy? That you bullied someone who did nothing to you into quitting Eve?
ProphetGuru Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:13:00 - [90] Originally by: Jargoon Well all I can say is I hope you guys don't freak out too much when we don't just cave in and give up because you're BoB ok lol. you think we want you to give up???!?! you could make a post surrendering today. we're still coming. Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
Jargoon GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:13:00 - [91] Edited by: Jargoon on 29/07/2006 08:13:40 Originally by: CalBar Personally, I think you're attacking Goonswarm because you are bored, no one will attack you, and you need something to do in the game. That you claim to do it in the name of someone that I imagine very few of you knew properly, let alone in real life, is just as insulting to his memory as any of the poor taste a few goons have shown, let alone disrespectful to the family and friends who were truly affected by his loss, who mourned for real, and actually cared for him on an emotional level. To be honest, it's sickening. To be honest, if I died and was looking down from heaven I would think it was pretty cool/funny that people would flip out and start a huge war in an MMORPG and MMORPG forums over me hehe
Jargoon GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:15:00 - [92] Originally by: ProphetGuru Originally by: Jargoon Well all I can say is I hope you guys don't freak out too much when we don't just cave in and give up because you're BoB ok lol. you think we want you to give up???!?! you could make a post surrendering today. we're still coming. Should be fun
Toffles GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:20:00 - [93] Originally by: Pwadoc Originally by: Rebellion Well, al I can say is that you have better be willing to put everything you can on the line to fight for what you think is right. BoB always fights all out. Since we have announced via several members that it is our intention to take this to a definite and final end, I hope you realize what that means. I hope you can last 2 weeks under the assault. I hope you can last a month. And I realy hope you can last a year. Because we can, and we will. It's not about scoring an internet victoy or being an internet hero. It's about us doing what we believe is the right thing to do. We don't want nor expect recognition for whatever we achieve. This is a game after all, and we know that even if we completely crush GoonSwarm to the ground, and crush the individual corps that fragment from it after they separate, and go after each individual pilot that had been a member of it at the time we decided to do so, that you would all still be perfectly safe and sound in the real world. This is a game, so we do not regret the slightest for telling you now that we will destroy you completely and utterly, because it is game destruction after all. I frankly don't see how you will enjoy this, but I know we will. I won't enjoy it. I'll probably quit the game if you do that. Does that make you happy? That you bullied someone who did nothing to you into quitting Eve? No they will be happy when they drive down your house and attack you, or find you at the next eve con and punch you in the face. They are bullies through and through, in game, out of game.
Herberge GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:21:00 - [94] Seargent Spot, you claim to hold yourself to a higher standard, and yet here you are suggesting that all the Australian muslims trapped in Lebanon deserve to die. As an Australian citizen I find that personally extremely offensive. Of course I would put up with it normally, but from someone who is trying so very hard to claim the moral high ground you just screwed up big time. That is the only response that is acceptable from you, to say "I screwed up big time" and accept your thrashing. I respectfully request that BoB permanently eject you and refuse to associate with you. If not then it will become clear that BoB is composed of disgusting bigots like yourself.
Trepkos Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:23:00 - [95] Originally by: Jargoon ...and get back to playing space game 12 hours a day like regular well-adjusted nerds ok Somehow the nerd insults don't hold very well coming from members of Something Awful. -------- ANGEL DEEP CORPORATION
Z Shakespeare Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:23:00 - [96] I find it quite hilarious how worked up everyone is getting over something someone said on the internet. Good show, I look forward to watching everyone making idiots of themselves. Fake edit: Pre-emptive "I'm the idiot" post.
Andre Carnegi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:25:00 - [97] Originally by: Trepkos Originally by: Jargoon ...and get back to playing space game 12 hours a day like regular well-adjusted nerds ok Somehow the nerd insults don't hold very well coming from members of Something Awful. OH GOD WE'RE NEEEEEERRRRDDDDSSSSS HEEEEEELLLLLLLP
Pwadoc	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:25:00 - [98] Originally by: Trepkos Originally by: Jargoon ...and get back to playing space game 12 hours a day like regular well-adjusted nerds ok Somehow the nerd insults don't hold very well coming from members of Something Awful. He was being facetious and self-deprecating. This issue does need any more unecessary hostility.
Tiberius Caesar Sothebys	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:26:00 - [99] Originally by: Toffles Originally by: Pwadoc Originally by: Rebellion Well, al I can say is that you have better be willing to put everything you can on the line to fight for what you think is right. BoB always fights all out. Since we have announced via several members that it is our intention to take this to a definite and final end, I hope you realize what that means. I hope you can last 2 weeks under the assault. I hope you can last a month. And I realy hope you can last a year. Because we can, and we will. It's not about scoring an internet victoy or being an internet hero. It's about us doing what we believe is the right thing to do. We don't want nor expect recognition for whatever we achieve. This is a game after all, and we know that even if we completely crush GoonSwarm to the ground, and crush the individual corps that fragment from it after they separate, and go after each individual pilot that had been a member of it at the time we decided to do so, that you would all still be perfectly safe and sound in the real world. This is a game, so we do not regret the slightest for telling you now that we will destroy you completely and utterly, because it is game destruction after all. I frankly don't see how you will enjoy this, but I know we will. I won't enjoy it. I'll probably quit the game if you do that. Does that make you happy? That you bullied someone who did nothing to you into quitting Eve? No they will be happy when they drive down your house and attack you, or find you at the next eve con and punch you in the face. They are bullies through and through, in game, out of game. You might as well save that line for your internal forums. Nobody here is buying what you're selling.
Z Shakespeare Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:26:00 - [100] Edited by: Z Shakespeare on 29/07/2006 08:26:34 Originally by: Trepkos Originally by: Jargoon ...and get back to playing space game 12 hours a day like regular well-adjusted nerds ok Somehow the nerd insults don't hold very well coming from members of Something Awful. Or from anyone who plays a space game on the internet, and argues about it on forums, really. Sorry, but I really had to point that out.
Z Shakespeare Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:28:00 - [101] Originally by: Tiberius Caesar You might as well save that line for your internal forums. Nobody here is buying what you're selling. I demand proof of this claim in the most scientific method available to us: a POLL!
Bushey GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:28:00 - [102] Edited by: Bushey on 29/07/2006 08:28:44 I honestly think this is a whole bunch of dumb. I do not know of the insults that were made as I'm sure a lot of the members are in the same boat. But all of the flame from both sides are really meaningless. Lets just get on with our lives and may the battles between us be glorious. Best of luck to all and I hope to see my local filled with BoB. GL HF
Trepkos Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:30:00 - [103] Linkage Im going to be looking forward to seeing more of the above picture once the fighting begins. -------- ANGEL DEEP CORPORATION
Andre Carnegi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:31:00 - [104] Originally by: Trepkos Linkage Im going to be looking forward to seeing more of the above picture once the fighting begins. Why not a functional killboard?
Pwadoc	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:31:00 - [105] Originally by: Tiberius Caesar You might as well save that line for your internal forums. Nobody here is buying what you're selling. Originally by: Blacklight We'll reign in the forum behaviour once tempers have calmed be sure of it but right now 90% of BoB would have a very hard job not leveling those idiots in real life if we met them, we are fuming and it isn't just us. It's very convenient to make this a BoB issue, when in actual fact it is a massive issue for whoever was friends with Smoske, we're just vocal and will go immediately for the jugular when someone ****es us off in Eve. So basically, if I ran into a BoB member in the street, they "would have a very hard job not leveling" me, even though I neither said nor did anything to them.
Trepkos Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:32:00 - [106] Originally by: Andre Carnegi Originally by: Trepkos Linkage Im going to be looking forward to seeing more of the above picture once the fighting begins. Why not a functional killboard? I would spell it out, but its obvious that you wouldn't be able to understand that either. -------- ANGEL DEEP CORPORATION
Andre Carnegi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:32:00 - [107] Originally by: Pwadoc Originally by: Tiberius Caesar You might as well save that line for your internal forums. Nobody here is buying what you're selling. Originally by: Blacklight We'll reign in the forum behaviour once tempers have calmed be sure of it but right now 90% of BoB would have a very hard job not leveling those idiots in real life if we met them, we are fuming and it isn't just us. It's very convenient to make this a BoB issue, when in actual fact it is a massive issue for whoever was friends with Smoske, we're just vocal and will go immediately for the jugular when someone ****es us off in Eve. So basically, if I ran into a BoB member in the street, they "would have a very hard job not leveling" me, even though I neither said nor did anything to them. They'd have a hard time leveling you because you ARE AN INTERNET FAT PERSON GET IT.
Grayton GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:35:00 - [108] All of this comes down to a question of morality. Was what Tetsujin had in his signature worthy of a crusade to exterminate an entire alliance? BoB obviously says yes, GoonSwarm obviously says no. But, that begs the question, who is right? In a question of morality, neither side ever is. The Crusades were started because one side thought the other was morally wrong (and religiously as well). The Holocaust happened because **** believed the Jews were morally wrong in everything they did based on his own experiences with them. The conflict in the Middle East that has been going on for centuries is largely a morality issue based out of religion and cultural conflicts.(I AM NOT COMPARING EITHER SIDE IN THIS EVE CONFLICT TO ANY OF THE SIDES I JUST MENTIONED AND I AM JUST USING THEM AS AN EXAMPLE OF A MORALITY CONFLICT. DON'T EVEN DARE MISREAD WHAT I'M SAYING AS ME CALLING EITHER SIDE **, **S, TERRORISTS, OR ANY OTHER SUCH THING, BECAUSE I AM NOT) The point I'm trying to make is that some of the bloodiest conflicts in the history of the world have happened due to questions of morality. They are far different from normal wars in that they give a side much more of a reason than just land or wealth to fight- they give that side the reason of believing to their very core that they are right in what they are defending. And Eve, as one of the most true-to-life games I've ever seen, has these same conflicts. This entire issue has brought up some interesting moral conflicts. Should we honor the right to free speech no matter what the cost, or censor anything in our alliance that we consider to be wrong to prevent conflict? Should we defend those that have angered the community even if we disagree with what they said even if it means bad political relations, or should we leave them out to dry, tossing them aside in the interests of furthering our political agenda? Those are the questions that BoB has basically presented us with, and it is no secret of what our answer to each question was. And because of our answers, BoB has deemed us morally wrong while we believe we are morally right. And thus they have started their campaign against what they deem as unjust and wrong, while we are left to defend ourselves against their onslaught. The problem with questions of morality, however, is that each side is never completely right or completely wrong due to the cultural values that each side holds dear. And because of this fact, ultimately, neither side in this entire issue is truly right or wrong. I guess this doesn't really add anything to the argument, but I had to say it. Like all morality conflicts of the past, this question of right and wrong will be fought on the battlefield. And, like all of the morality conflicts of the past, this will not simply end like normal wars. Both sides should be looking forward to a long and bloody conflict ahead. I will see BoB on the battlefield.
Spazzle GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:40:00 - [109] Edited by: Spazzle on 29/07/2006 08:42:01 Guys, who cares what BOB thinks. They are one of the most powerful alliances in the game, but here they are picking a fight with us when we're down and going after cheap ganks in syndicate. Is BOB afraid of us? Of course not. They would probably take us at our best, and right now they are just kicking us when we're down. BOB needs continuous war to keep itself interested. They need the same drama and excitement we do. So ignore their self righteous posts, their posturing, their insults, their forum trolls, and their accusations of immaturity. They need to do whatever they can to justify their campaign against us right now, before their members call for some real action. The kind of action they might see if they came for us in 4 months, or the action they would get if they went for a major alliance. Just as most of our enemies in XZH showed themselves to be the kind of guys you could joke about lag with in local when things went wrong, I'm sure most of the BOB members are cools guys we'd love to play the pod game with. But just as D2 had its perpetually irrational members like Lorth, BOB has its talking points forum warriors. Ignore what they say, because they have no desire in dialogue, just to hear themselves rant.
Andre Carnegi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:41:00 - [110] Originally by: Trepkos Originally by: Andre Carnegi Originally by: Trepkos Linkage Im going to be looking forward to seeing more of the above picture once the fighting begins. Why not a functional killboard? I would spell it out, but its obvious that you wouldn't be able to understand that either. OH GOD HORRIBLE BURN I CAN NEVER SHOW MY INTERNET FACE ON EVE-O AGAIN.
Tiberius Caesar Sothebys	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:44:00 - [111] Originally by: Pwadoc Originally by: Tiberius Caesar You might as well save that line for your internal forums. Nobody here is buying what you're selling. Originally by: Blacklight We'll reign in the forum behaviour once tempers have calmed be sure of it but right now 90% of BoB would have a very hard job not leveling those idiots in real life if we met them, we are fuming and it isn't just us. It's very convenient to make this a BoB issue, when in actual fact it is a massive issue for whoever was friends with Smoske, we're just vocal and will go immediately for the jugular when someone ****es us off in Eve. So basically, if I ran into a BoB member in the street, they "would have a very hard job not leveling" me, even though I neither said nor did anything to them. Ummm, yeah... My point was that you might as well save the 'bob r teh bullies' line for your internals. I've yet to see a non-goon member agree that bob are bullying you. You've seemingly deeply offended not only BOB but a lot of the Eve community with your antics on these forums this last week. How you carry yourselves here (forums) can have a profound impact on what happens ingame. I know this has probably been said many times this week, but I it seems to not be sinking in.
Crypt Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:46:00 - [112] Edited by: Crypt on 29/07/2006 08:49:35 I say this as an outsider looking in (not having anything at all to do with either party of this conflict in the least), myself as I'm sure alot of others in the eve community are losing respect for both sides. And it kind of saddens me to see this ** here, you guys are better than this, seriously. There are alot of good people on both sides of the fence as you've all shown in the past but some of the things being said here and in the other threads, as well as a lot of the posturing on both sides is clouding that in a very bad way. I feel bad for both sides in this mainly for just how much damage its doing internally as well as externally to all concerned. I wish both sides the best and hopefully soon you can all return to laughing and having fun with what is and always will be a game. Good luck guys. Quote:** It is a poor sort of man who is content to be spoon-fed knowledge that has been filtered through the canon of religious or political belief
Jargoon GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:50:00 - [113] Edited by: Jargoon on 29/07/2006 08:49:56 Originally by: Crypt I say this as an outsider looking in (not having anything at all to do with either party of this conflict in the least) myself as I'm sure alot of others in the eve community are losing respect for both sides. There are alot of good people on both sides of the fence as you've all shown in the past but some of the things being said here and in the other threads as well as a lot of the posturing on both sides is clouding that in a very bad way. I feel bad for both sides in this mainly for just how much damage its doing internally as well as externally to all concerned. I wish both sides the best and hopefully soon you can all return to laughing and having fun with what is and always will be a game. Good luck guys. No kidding dude, most of these threads boil down to: "You guys suck!" "No YOU guys suck!" It's a good thing skills train offline in this game, otherwise the forum warriors would still be using Civilian Mining Lasers
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:56:00 - [114] Originally by: Perideous By tolerating terrorist in their presense many muslims DO warrent having bombs dropped near them, even fatally close, due to WILLINGLY being near known terrorist. - by sergant spot I suggest you rethink this statement, and retract it. USAF Air Power! 3E971 Been there, proud to have been part of it. LOAC (Law of Armed Conflict): If you have a bunch of willing human shields deliberately shielding a target, the target is still a legit target. The laws of armed conflict are meant to let non-combatants get AWAY from the shooting. If they deliberately head TOWARDS the shooting and try and abuse LOAC to get folks in trouble, they in many cases (not all cases) are no longer protected. If you stand on top of a Tank, and say "I'm not a combatant, therefore you cannot drop a Bomb anywhere near me" you are mistaken. We can still bomb the tank, even with you standing on top it. About the only exception is "proportionality". A hostile milita infantry squad that takes position in a large childrens day care center with many children in it, and not in a vital location would not be attacked, even though the infantry troops themselves are STILL fair targets. On the otherhand, a Tank parked in a residentual neighborhood probably WOULD be attacked, but with a single precision bomb (which is still horridly dangerous for anyone near by, but not certain death) You can split hairs forever with LOAC, but at the end, the terrorist get shot. Play nice while you Butcher each other
Pwadoc	Posted - 2006.07.29 08:58:00 - [115] Originally by: Tiberius Caesar Ummm, yeah... My point was that you might as well save the 'bob r teh bullies' line for your internals. I've yet to see a non-goon member agree that bob are bullying you. You've seemingly deeply offended not only BOB but a lot of the Eve community with your antics on these forums this last week. How you carry yourselves here (forums) can have a profound impact on what happens ingame. I know this has probably been said many times this week, but I it seems to not be sinking in. So you think I've been acting inappropriately in this thread? Perhaps you think I've been acting inappropriately in other threads? See, it's this plural you think that's really getting to me. People who read SomethingAwful and post in the forums are members in every alliance in this game. There are goonfleet members with BoB alts, goons who have never been in goonfleet, and goons who used to belong to goonfleet and have now departed. There are tens of thousands of us, and we're heavily represented on Eve. So lay off about the "Eve Community" condemning "us." You have no idea who "we" are and you certainly don't represent the Eve community. By the way, but I have had non-goonfleet players express that they felt that BoB has acted poorly and is bullying us. My anecdotal evidence is just as pointless as yours.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 09:00:00 - [116] Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 29/07/2006 09:04:06 Originally by: Herberge Seargent Spot, you claim to hold yourself to a higher standard, and yet here you are suggesting that all the Australian muslims trapped in Lebanon deserve to die. As an Australian citizen I find that personally extremely offensive. Of course I would put up with it normally, but from someone who is trying so very hard to claim the moral high ground you just screwed up big time. That is the only response that is acceptable from you, to say "I screwed up big time" and accept your thrashing. I respectfully request that BoB permanently eject you and refuse to associate with you. If not then it will become clear that BoB is composed of disgusting bigots like yourself. If they stand "willingly and knowingly" go out and stand near terrorists who are in the act of firing weapons in attempts to kill people, then yes, they do deserve anything that happens to them if they get caught in the crossfire. LOAC (Law of armed conflict) is designed to let non-combatants get AWAY from combat. If they head TO the combat, deliberately, and then DELIBERATELY put themselves in the line of fire, they in many (not all) cases are no longer protected. Play nice while you Butcher each other
Toffles GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 09:08:00 - [117] Originally by: Pwadoc Originally by: Tiberius Caesar Ummm, yeah... My point was that you might as well save the 'bob r teh bullies' line for your internals. I've yet to see a non-goon member agree that bob are bullying you. You've seemingly deeply offended not only BOB but a lot of the Eve community with your antics on these forums this last week. How you carry yourselves here (forums) can have a profound impact on what happens ingame. I know this has probably been said many times this week, but I it seems to not be sinking in. So you think I've been acting inappropriately in this thread? Perhaps you think I've been acting inappropriately in other threads? See, it's this plural you think that's really getting to me. People who read SomethingAwful and post in the forums are members in every alliance in this game. There are goonfleet members with BoB alts, goons who have never been in goonfleet, and goons who used to belong to goonfleet and have now departed. There are tens of thousands of us, and we're heavily represented on Eve. So lay off about the "Eve Community" condemning "us." You have no idea who "we" are and you certainly don't represent the Eve community. By the way, but I have had non-goonfleet players express that they felt that BoB has acted poorly and is bullying us. My anecdotal evidence is just as pointless as yours. To expand on the something awful thing. I've seen people tell us to go back to our cesspool of 14 year old posters, and all other kinds insults about SA when they don't have the slightest clue what they are talking about. I know specifically of at least two people in BoB who are members, I know goons in MC, in D2, in RZR, in ASCN, LV, ERA, you name it. Hell, even Cyvok claims to be a goon. Here's something fun, go into the videos/documentaries forums and notice the sticky titled "Hay guys, where da moviez at??" posted by the moderator Eris Discordia. That's based off a goon joke, and that's a goon moderator. So much is said about how our supposedly immoral, childish, and repulsive community at something awful will never fit in with the game community without realizing just how deeply infiltrated it already is.
tookar	Posted - 2006.07.29 09:08:00 - [118] LOL moralising on terrorism from an american :) Great how they only recently stopped publically supporting the IRA in bombing civilian targets in britain so they could get more support for thei war on "terrorism" . Tbh bringing arguments about rl terrorism and polotics into game is just totally lame so please go to a politics forum or just post about eve politics here please . If you are getting rl politics and eve politics mixed up as some people here seem to be (threats of physical violence from internet nerds ftl) then you seriously need to go get some help from a qualified psychiatrist . Quit the posturing and just play the game . Btw what are you doing looking at links from goonfleets private forum in the first place? EVE is supposed to be fun and threatening people with physical violence is not fun .
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.29 09:08:00 - [119] Am the only one who finds Spot's sig ironic in the context?
dasdsadsadsacyx	Posted - 2006.07.29 09:09:00 - [120] Edited by: dasdsadsadsacyx on 29/07/2006 09:10:10 Originally by: Sergeant Spot Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 29/07/2006 09:02:38 Originally by: Herberge Seargent Spot, you claim to hold yourself to a higher standard, and yet here you are suggesting that all the Australian muslims trapped in Lebanon deserve to die. As an Australian citizen I find that personally extremely offensive. Of course I would put up with it normally, but from someone who is trying so very hard to claim the moral high ground you just screwed up big time. That is the only response that is acceptable from you, to say "I screwed up big time" and accept your thrashing. I respectfully request that BoB permanently eject you and refuse to associate with you. If not then it will become clear that BoB is composed of disgusting bigots like yourself. If they stand "willingly and knowingly" go out and stand near terrorists who are in the act of firing weapons in attempts to kill people, then yes, they do deserve anything that happens to them if they get caught in the crossfire. LOAC (Law of armed conflict) is designed to let non-combatants get AWAY from combat. If they heads TO the combat, deliberately, and then DELIBERATELY put themselves in the line of fire, they in many (not all) cases are no longer protected. Cant somebody already delete these completely oog and insulting posts by Sergeant Spot? It is obvious that you in the US military believe this to be the case, but given the current very critical stance in the world with regards to your military and its methods, you should know that posting any such things is nothing but flamebait - someone will take offense to it. People all over the world disagree with you broad and generalizing portrayal of civil casualties - so please stop this horrible rl analogue.
Tiberius Caesar Sothebys	Posted - 2006.07.29 09:10:00 - [121] Originally by: Pwadoc Originally by: Tiberius Caesar Ummm, yeah... My point was that you might as well save the 'bob r teh bullies' line for your internals. I've yet to see a non-goon member agree that bob are bullying you. You've seemingly deeply offended not only BOB but a lot of the Eve community with your antics on these forums this last week. How you carry yourselves here (forums) can have a profound impact on what happens ingame. I know this has probably been said many times this week, but I it seems to not be sinking in. So you think I've been acting inappropriately in this thread? Perhaps you think I've been acting inappropriately in other threads? See, it's this plural you think that's really getting to me. People who read SomethingAwful and post in the forums are members in every alliance in this game. There are goonfleet members with BoB alts, goons who have never been in goonfleet, and goons who used to belong to goonfleet and have now departed. There are tens of thousands of us, and we're heavily represented on Eve. So lay off about the "Eve Community" condemning "us." You have no idea who "we" are and you certainly don't represent the Eve community. By the way, but I have had non-goonfleet players express that they felt that BoB has acted poorly and is bullying us. My anecdotal evidence is just as pointless as yours. I can make things up too. All one needs to do is read all these posts to judge for themselves. I have no bias either way. BoB is by far not perfect here either. I dont want to hear about RL bombings and stuff. As far as 'U' go, 'U' = GoonStorm. When you post on the forums in Eve you represent your corp and alliance wether you are official or not. Your posts are perfectly reasonable and worthy of discussion. However the goon forum zerging of catchy 'net phrases and outlandish insults is very distastefull. I'll let the Eve community make their judgments on your behavior and BoB's behavior. Are you comfortable with that?
Pwadoc	Posted - 2006.07.29 09:13:00 - [122] Originally by: Sergeant Spot If they stand "willingly and knowingly" go out and stand near terrorists who are in the act of firing weapons in attempts to kill people, then yes, they do deserve anything that happens to them if they get caught in the crossfire. LOAC (Law of armed conflict) is designed to let non-combatants get AWAY from combat. If they head TO the combat, deliberately, and then DELIBERATELY put themselves in the line of fire, they in many (not all) cases are no longer protected. This sort of outside the topic, but I would say there are probably some in your corp who disagree with you on this. But to carry this its logical extension, do you believe that those who make statements in support of terrorism are valid targets as well? How about those that practice in the same religion or belong ot the same culture?
Pwadoc	Posted - 2006.07.29 09:20:00 - [123] Edited by: Pwadoc on 29/07/2006 09:20:50 Originally by: Tiberius Caesar Originally by: Pwadoc Originally by: Tiberius Caesar Ummm, yeah... My point was that you might as well save the 'bob r teh bullies' line for your internals. I've yet to see a non-goon member agree that bob are bullying you. You've seemingly deeply offended not only BOB but a lot of the Eve community with your antics on these forums this last week. How you carry yourselves here (forums) can have a profound impact on what happens ingame. I know this has probably been said many times this week, but I it seems to not be sinking in. So you think I've been acting inappropriately in this thread? Perhaps you think I've been acting inappropriately in other threads? See, it's this plural you think that's really getting to me. People who read SomethingAwful and post in the forums are members in every alliance in this game. There are goonfleet members with BoB alts, goons who have never been in goonfleet, and goons who used to belong to goonfleet and have now departed. There are tens of thousands of us, and we're heavily represented on Eve. So lay off about the "Eve Community" condemning "us." You have no idea who "we" are and you certainly don't represent the Eve community. By the way, but I have had non-goonfleet players express that they felt that BoB has acted poorly and is bullying us. My anecdotal evidence is just as pointless as yours. I can make things up too. All one needs to do is read all these posts to judge for themselves. I have no bias either way. BoB is by far not perfect here either. I dont want to hear about RL bombings and stuff. As far as 'U' go, 'U' = GoonStorm. When you post on the forums in Eve you represent your corp and alliance wether you are official or not. Your posts are perfectly reasonable and worthy of discussion. However the goon forum zerging of catchy 'net phrases and outlandish insults is very distastefull. I'll let the Eve community make their judgments on your behavior and BoB's behavior. Are you comfortable with that? I think that's fair. I will however do my part to see that my views and those of my corp are adequately represented. Nothing I quoted or referenced is untrue by the way. I have several non-goon friends in non-goonfleet corps and they've expressed nothing but support for us. I'm just saying it doesn't matter either way, as the people we know and associate with are probably going to react similarly to events.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2006.07.29 09:26:00 - [124] Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 29/07/2006 09:27:19 Originally by: Toffles To expand on the something awful thing. I've seen people tell us to go back to our cesspool of 14 year old posters, and all other kinds insults about SA when they don't have the slightest clue what they are talking about. I know specifically of at least two people in BoB who are members, I know goons in MC, in D2, in RZR, in ASCN, LV, ERA, you name it. Hell, even Cyvok claims to be a goon. Here's something fun, go into the videos/documentaries forums and notice the sticky titled "Hay guys, where da moviez at??" posted by the moderator Eris Discordia. That's based off a goon joke, and that's a goon moderator. So much is said about how our supposedly immoral, childish, and repulsive community at something awful will never fit in with the game community without realizing just how deeply infiltrated it already is. tbh - i don't see any problem with SA-members playing EVE. but i see a problem with those SA-members who play Goonfleet online instead of EVE online. especially since an idiot like Remedial is in charge of this Mega-Corporation/"Alliance". i'd welcome it if all those Goonies who don't want to be generalized because of a few idiots, would join some smaller corps or create them on their own, instead of hugging each other in their nest called "GoonSwarm". because the whole "we play Goonfleet not EVE"-attitude implies something like: "we don't want to get in touch with all those that are playing this game also, we don't want to get in touch with those 'vets', we don't want to get in touch with those empire-newbies which never have a chance to join the 'newbie-club' of Goonfleet because they are not part of SA" i don't hate the goonies as persons, but i hate the shown concept of Goonfleet. /flame on ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Cyleth Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 09:27:00 - [125] Originally by: Toffles They are bullies through and through So, you guys are whining because we attack whole community(GS) over a single person(that's what you have said). And as you have said, majority of GS got nothing to do with that. How can you make a general claim, us being bullies, when you don't believe in community being what it's individuals are? -- Nobody stays behind
Tetsujin Band of Brosefs	Posted - 2006.07.29 09:33:00 - [126] Originally by: tookar If you are getting rl politics and eve politics mixed up as some people here seem to be (threats of physical violence from internet nerds ftl) then you seriously need to go get some help from a qualified psychiatrist . Quit the posturing and just play the game . Btw what are you doing looking at links from goonfleets private forum in the first place? EVE is supposed to be fun and threatening people with physical violence is not fun . <3 Tookar I'm going to threaten you but not with violence, with hugs and kisses.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 09:34:00 - [127] Originally by: HippoKing Am the only one who finds Spot's sig ironic in the context? Actually, I do to. Its an OLD sig of mine, from when I played Mankind. I added it when I added my Corp and alliance tag as mandated by the alt-smackdown. Then the next day this crap started. Play nice while you Butcher each other
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 09:40:00 - [128] Goons in general seem to be internet bullies of the worst sort. Attack and then blame the victim. Truth is, I expect this to get very very ugly and be very bad for the game. I wish it were otherwise. I deeply wish it were otherwise. The "easy" thing to do would be to let the Goons slide. Its always easiest to let a bully get away with things, at least at the moment in question. Play nice while you Butcher each other
News Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.29 09:42:00 - [129] All analogies with RL aside (that's just opening a can of worms nobody should want), I can tell you this. If a member from my corp acts in a way we don't approve of, they'll be told to knock it of. Or if it's really bad, they'll be kicked, no further questions asked. If they are told to stop but still continue, it's end of story right there. Why? Because we don't want to be associated with jerks. In Eve, you corporation/alliance is defined by it's members. All of its members. If 1% of them are stepping out of bounds, they'd better be pulled back in, or kicked, it's called consequences. If the corporation/alliance doesn't take the responsibility to enforce those consequences, someone else is likely to make them take that responsibilty. That's the way Eve works. You seem to have a hard time understanding that, but there it is. I can understand that goons are a tight knit community of their own, and they will defend their members at all cost. Although in this case, the cost appears to be end up being driven back to an NPC station and being camped for over a year. Have fun standing up for your principles in a game you are unable play.
Yumi Katanawe	Posted - 2006.07.29 09:43:00 - [130] With all that e-rage flowing around having no server structure strong enough to handle the engagements gonna make someone's forehead veins to pop haha. Go Go Forum Warriors! (oldie but goodie)
Temari Kurita	Posted - 2006.07.29 09:45:00 - [131] Originally by: Tiberius Caesar I'll let the Eve community make their judgments on your behavior and BoB's behavior. Are you comfortable with that? Speaking for myself as a member of GoonSwarm, I'm comfortable with people making whatever judgements they like about me, my corp/alliance mates, and the game in general. Everbody is entitled to their own opinion, and frequently people will have differing opinions from others. That is what makes the world what it is today. No-one, whether they be playing an internet space game or playing at being President of the United States, has any "right" opinion, not do they have a "wrong" opinion. What any person thinks, says, or does is up to themselves.... and yes, a consequence of that is that you have to conviction to stand by your actions/words/thoughts and accept any consequences it may bring. This is a fundamental right for all people (to hold individual opinions) and it is that which makes democratic civilisation what it is today. It is only in totalitarian communities where a select few force the majority to abide by a single opinion, and crush any dissent. Let us, therefore examine the situation before us. There are some goons who hold the opinion that nothing is sacred from being made into humour. There are some goons who disagree that "anything is fair game", but are willing to stand by their fellow goon even though they hold a different opinion. Then there are those who have come forward and said that we must all hold the opinion that making jokes about the dead is distasteful. These people have "declared war" (in an internet space GAME) upon the Goons, vowed to "wipe them (GoonSwarm) out, not only as an Alliance... not only as individual corporations.... but as individuals themselves"... and some have even hinted at (or openly discussed) physical violence in an out-of-game arena to get goons to change their opinions. I could comment on which path is more democratic and which is the path to totalitarianism, but I think those of your reading this post may be able to look back over the entirity of the situation and determine for yourselves. That is, of course, another right which we as humans hold dear: to determine for ourselves what our opinion should be, based upon the evidence presented from both sides. I am a member of GoonSwarm. I have a broad, robust sense of humour. I find a number of things funny that offend others. I also find offensive many things that others find humorous. In my line of employment, often humour is used as an outlet for emotions that can interfere with our ability to fnction within that role (and indeed, within society). Some of that humour could very well be offensive to those outside the 'employment community' in which I work, particularly if those people did not know or understad why the humour is used the way it is. Was making jokes about a former player wrong? That is an individual opinion everyone can make for themselves. Trying to force everyone to hold the same opinion leads us into dangerous waters towards totalitarianism. Do I agree with the jokes/find them amusing? Now we get to an interesting dilemma. If I admit that I find it funny, I open myself to open flaming. If I say I disagree, I open myself to calls of being a hypocrite, etc. However my opinion is my own, and therefore neither "right" nor "wrong". It is my own opinion, and it matters little in the grand scheme of the universe (or even the puny VIRTUAL cosmos of an internet space GAME). Think of me whatever you wish. That is your right. Just as I will think whatever I wish of others. Accept that I, you, and everyone else has that right and we can go back to doing whatever it is we were doing before this situation became the dramafest it has become. Or you can decide not to accept that everyone can have differing opinions, bottle your rage and let it poison everything you find fun within the game. Until then, I'll be with the rest of GoonSwarm.
Toffles GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 09:51:00 - [132] Originally by: Cyleth Originally by: Toffles They are bullies through and through So, you guys are whining because we attack whole community(GS) over a single person(that's what you have said). And as you have said, majority of GS got nothing to do with that. How can you make a general claim, us being bullies, when you don't believe in community being what it's individuals are? Specifically because it was stated by a BoB member that 90% of BoB wanted to "level us". I'm sure the percentage quoted was just an estimation but it does reflect that a majority are contemplating physically assaulting us. I suppose he could be lying about that statistic, but all signs point to that being true. Physically "beating us" has been brought by at least two ranking member in your alliance, one who is a ceo.

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