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Khal Grayrest
Ars Caelestis
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Posted - 2006.07.31 03:01:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Instagib
The difference is in the offense. A hyrid/laser boat has two options, turn off their guns or crash there cap competely. Both suck.
Low cap modules such as hardeners, scram, web, etc.. will run easily. Along with full offense on caldari/minmatar ships. Wether it's a too small advantage to even argue over or not I shall not say, but it's a n advantage never the less.
I watched IAC get destroyed by BoB in a straight up CNR/Nighthawk vs CNR/Absolution fight. As soon as that Absolution started getting pounded, he dropped his damage output to 0 in order to run the reppers. A tournament isn't pvp, but it seems like more than a small advantage to me.
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I have 3million SP and an exclamation mark for a face... |
Scott McClellan
Forum Posters Anonymous
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Posted - 2006.07.31 03:01:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Misty Peaks
How about making it suck the energy out in a different way:
If you fire a heavy NOS on another ship it sucks from 'total cap' kinda like diverting power generated to your ship instead of theirs
ie. Heavy NOS takes 15% total cap and adds it to your own
5000 total cap taken down to 4250 (messes up their regen abit) you get 5750 (boosts your regen abit.
Now it would still have the cap cost for you so you wont be getting much benefit (but you will be getting some)
This makes it unilateral, every ship gets effected the same (heavy NOS = 15%, med = 10%, small = 5%), 15% on a frigate isnt really much as they have very fast regen to begin with.
Now in the case of Domi's and curse etc where you can fit 3+ heavy NOS...52% from 3 is a bit much, but in the long run its better than 3x current NOS plus if your using cap boosters its almost completely irrelevant to begin with.
Can you imagine the NOSSING frigate swarms that would utterly **** battleships over?
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Ketrin
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Posted - 2006.07.31 03:07:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Ketrin on 31/07/2006 03:07:48
NO! NOS is fine. Damn it, next thing I'll see you will nerf drones and smartbombs and everything so we will all end up flying frigs like the first day of lanch, only t2 now...
Maybe put a stacking penalty, but even that would be o_0
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Dethis
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.31 03:20:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Ketrin
Edited by: Ketrin on 31/07/2006 03:07:48
NO! NOS is fine. Damn it, next thing I'll see you will nerf drones and smartbombs and everything so we will all end up flying frigs like the first day of lanch, only t2 now...
Maybe put a stacking penalty, but even that would be o_0
i concur
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Kill em all and let god sort em out
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Kalixa Hihro
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Posted - 2006.07.31 03:33:00 -
[65]
NOS should be left exactly the way it is.
It affects each race differently but fair.
Amarr/Gallente/Caldari/Minmatar get their tank, afterburner and other cap intensive mods broken.
Amarr/Gallente/Caldari(rails anyway) can't fire weapons.
Wait a minute 
Maybe the NOS isn't what needs to be nerfed 
-Kal
/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
My opinion in no way represents that of my corp or anyone I am associated with, and is probably entirely wrong. |
Nyxus
GALAXIAN
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Posted - 2006.07.31 03:39:00 -
[66]
How bout this.
1) Make all Nos based on a small range of sig radius. IE- nos work optimally on a sig radius specific to that Nos. Nos's made to effect frigates work as normal on sig rad's of 20 to 105 and only vamp 9.2cap every 3 seconds. Anything above or below that range gets reduced depending on how far out of that range it is.
2) Introduce 3 new nos for each size ship. Each type of nos will have an effective range they currently have, but will have a different sig rad optimal and cap amount. EXAMPLE: Large Nosferatu: Anti-frigate - 21km range, 8 cap every 3 seconds, optimal sig rad of 20m to 105m. Large Nosferatu: Anti-Cruiser - 21 KM range, 30 cap every 6 seconds, optimal sig rad of 100m to 320m. Large Nosferatu: Anti-BS - 21km range, 100 cap every 12 seconds, optimal sig rad of 300m to 1000m. All fitting reqs the same as a large nosferatu today. Do this for all 3 sizes.
3) Ships with a Nos bonus get a bonus to sig rad optimal range. Don't nerf the Amarr Recons, they work fine now thx.
4) Make cap batteries (and cap batteries alone) provide an "unnossable" amount of cap. Because then they may have a point to actually putting one on your ship.
Ships are fitting specifically to counter other ships, nos are no longer "one size pwns all". A cruiser with a medium nos meant for BS can't do crap to frigates. A BS can fit specifically to counter frigates, but does almost nothing to another BS and is only barely usefull against cruisers. While larger nos are harder to fit, that fitting difficulty allows you a greater range than fitting a nos one size below.
There would be a LOT more variety to nos setups. Nos would be size appropriate, and every type of nos within a size would be usefull. Usefull variety is good for gameplay and member retention as it promotes intricacy of setups and prevents stagnation from repetative gameplay. A tool for every task, and an appropriate task for every tool.
Nos changed in such a way would provide richer gaming experience by promoting more different specialized setups as opposed to "One mod to rule them all" setups which amount to frustration and/or boredom.
Nyxus
PS- Step 5) Go back and revamp turrets the same way. TYVM!
Originally by: Tux
The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
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El Ponja
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.31 03:58:00 -
[67]
\o/ YAY! Keep indirectly nerfing the Amarr!!! staking penalty, passive tanking mods and now nos, i probably forget something but i give a ****, i only fly amarr ships so i dont care!!
2 out of the few amarr succesfull pvp ships get screwed over, the Curse and the Pilgrim!!! YAY!!!
Its a good day to be one of ccp`s bastard son, the amarr 
_____________
Amarr
KhanidMKII |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.07.31 04:28:00 -
[68]
Originally by: AlphaBaker
Could we please just get everything to have racial varients? that would solve the problem.
NOS, 4 types as effective as now, but only 20% effective against other races, plus 1 Multi NOS, at 50% efficiency.
Webs, 4 Types, plus multi same as above
Warp Scrambles, 4 types plus multi
Alternativly, add tracking to web, warp scramble and NOS mods.
Might as well, since we are at it....
Even as a joke that's just not funny.
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Kldraina
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Posted - 2006.07.31 04:45:00 -
[69]
It would be interesting if Nos effectiveness was based upon % cap remaining in the target. Maybe have them be equal, I.E. if the target is at 90% cap, the Nos is 90% effective, and if the target is at 10% cap, the Nos is 10% effective. |
Onin Ra
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Posted - 2006.07.31 12:21:00 -
[70]
Dunno if it was suggested before, but what do you think about this idea:
Make Energy Vampire Hardpoints on all ships, for example maximum 2 per ship and more for specialized ships like Curse/Piligrim ?
It will limit amout of nossing biotches around and not totaly nerf specialized ships like Curse. Nos will still be usefull, just not as much.
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Oosel
Nightmare Holdings
Armorum Unitas
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Posted - 2006.07.31 12:34:00 -
[71]
whats wrong with having an all noss'd ship set up everyone says learn to adapt etc and that what these pilots have done to get around the fact that just 2 or 3 small ships can now spank a bs or tackle it easily for others to gank....they dont fit wcs to do this yet still get slated for using a set up that allows them to counter an agressor
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Dixon
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Posted - 2006.07.31 12:58:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Plutoinum
Edited by: Plutoinum on 31/07/2006 00:51:30
Originally by: Dixon
Just to get this straight... have you ever lost a BS to a single interceptor?
Or do you just not like the fact that interceptors are very good at intercepting things?
Should never happen. Giving an interceptor a big chance to solo pwn a battleship would be rediculous.
Interceptor have a role, solo killing BS is not on the list, because:
BS are expensive, need a lot of skillpoints, are slow and unagile, which makes them already very vulnerable, if they are alone.
On the other hand, two of the BS' advantages are good tank-ability and high damage output.
The main purpose of interceptors is being fast agile tacklers that are difficult to hit, their role is not to kill big ships solo. In groups ok.
Again, have you ever lost a BS to a single interceptor?
I have never had any trouble with 'ceptors on my BS, even without nos. T2 light drones usually chew them up. And I don't even think a single ceptor can break a BSs tank, especially outside web range.
Quote:
Interceptor have a role, solo killing BS is not on the list, because:
BS are expensive, need a lot of skillpoints, are slow and unagile, which makes them already very vulnerable, if they are alone.
So ships that are more expensive should just win if facing a less-expensive opponent? The thing you don't seem to realize is that a 'ceptor has no chance of breaking a half-decent BS tank, it would never happen. Battleships are not supposed to be solo-pwnmobiles and neither should interceptors, but they have plenty of counters ATM. Large ships should have problems killing small ships, t2 lights, webs and painters all make them less vulnerable to small ships but they should never be invulnerable.
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Auren I'del
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.07.31 13:35:00 -
[73]
IMHO Nos's are ok. There are no reason to do anything about them. I have been nossed and I have used them myself, and if people feels that they are overpowered they are completely free to use them on their own ships.
Why should it be nerfed to be kind to frigs? For some reason everybody cry when a BS take down a frig. Everytime somebody in a small ship have been taken down by a BS it should be nerfed, nerf the arty's, nerf the missiles (ohąthey already have been), nerf the blaster's, nerf the nos, nerf the ecm,++++, nerf EVERYTHING!!!
Some kind of tracking might be an idea, but I dont like it either. Then we should add tracking to everything like remote reppers ++
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Antodias
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.31 14:55:00 -
[74]
I like the idea of capacitor batteries keeping a reserve, and maybe make them low slot so Amarr can use them?
But I'm even a little bit scared of that amount of change to them. No more.
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Sinistro
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Posted - 2006.07.31 15:29:00 -
[75]
Leave nos like it is.
Any one who does not wanted to be nossed then stay outside its range.
Like writen before there enough mods to counter them next to pasive tanking.
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Sadayiel
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.31 15:36:00 -
[76]
just came to my mind that a nos, instead drain cap directly may just Slower the cap regen.
think a heavy nos add a let's say 15% increase in cap recharge rate so when a ship get nos this makes ship not get ****** just add a slighty trouble easily solved with cap boosters (since the increase rate can be higher).
on the other hand give the ship nossing an increase in their cap recharge rate similar or equal on the applied one to opposite ship.
This still make nos useful for tanking duties, slow a bit the combat and disrupt opponents capacitor, breaks the overpowered purenos ships with armor and drones (making them actually involve more skills at use it than just target/nos/ecm/drones and wait )
let cap neutralicers be useful being the only way to remove big amounts of cap from ships.
-------------------Sig-----------------------
The True Pirate secret |
Ridjeck Thome
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Posted - 2006.07.31 21:17:00 -
[77]
I like teh 'Nos' hardpoint idea - would help protect the curse etc.
I also think that some of suggestions above that are variation of 'lets make NOS affect cap energy/ recharge etc in this way' are slightly missing the point of the original poster.....
whats bad about the suggested changes is that is leaves Caldari and minnie with enough to keep firing (at least) - Amarr and gallente (as Cap intensive races) got the rough end of the stick...
/signed per OP :)
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Dano Sarum
Giants in the Playground
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Posted - 2006.07.31 21:58:00 -
[78]
So... BS can no longer cripple a frigate or cruiser that decides to get close?
The main problem what i see with this is what the OP said, Mini and caldari who use low/no cap use for their weapons can just keep on shooting and shooting, allowing people to devote all of their cap to tanking, most ships can sustain a tank of some sort without LOOSING cap if the weapons aren't firing.
This sort of proposal will just make recon ships suck in PvP, cripple Amarr more then it allready does.
While its true that NOS in its current form along with webbers have that "if you got in range of it, you're dead and cant counter" aspect to them, the 10% cap thing isnt the answer.
How about nos like the OP said had some sort of tracking thing added to them or a maximum effectivness type thing added, so you cant insta-drain a frigate with a heavy nos or two.
Dunno the specifics, but..
/signed
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Sammiel
Ars Caelestis
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Posted - 2006.07.31 22:13:00 -
[79]
Most amarr recons will fit a neut anyhow, so it won't matter. They will just NOS it down to a percentage and neut the rest. So I really don't understand the whining about BS vs frigs, you can still load a neut. It just won't be an obvious choice to fit NOS, like it currently is in all but a few circumstances.
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Kenz Rider
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Posted - 2006.07.31 22:28:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Lienzo
Edited by: Lienzo on 30/07/2006 18:25:35
Math is too simple. How about always take a % of an existing quantity within a maximum absolutes?
L/M/S have descending absolutes.
Neutralizers should not have absolutes qualities and just be percent based on the output end.
Nos should not have the severe range limitations of neuts.
L nos sucks the amount it normally does in the opening salvos.
Let's say an Apoc has 4800cap, and a nos always takes 120 (not the real numbers). That's 40 sucks, or 6.6 rounds if you've got 6 nos, but probably 3 cycles if the target has already lowered himself to 50% cap.
It keeps sucking 120e with declining efficiency until the capacitor reaches 1200 cap, which is approximately what a maller contains. At that point it would have scaled down on a linear slope to 12e drain efficiency per cycle, which btw, will still drain an unamped maller with just 1 or 2 heavies.
I like this idea.
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Guillame Herschel
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Posted - 2006.08.01 00:00:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 01/08/2006 00:01:27
Originally by: Dixon
A stacking penalty would make cap rechargers and boosters more effective as countermeasures and make NOS less of a no-brainer mod.
2000MW pg per Large NOS module is quite a stacking penalty ofc, tbh, ftw, dyt?
(dyt = don't you think?)
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Imhotep Khem
Vortex.
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Posted - 2006.08.01 02:33:00 -
[82]
Whats with all this cap battery business? Cap flux is the perfect counter to nos. It keeps the cap coming rapidly, but never allows a large amount in the battery. So a nossing enemy will eventually stop getting much cap from you, but you continue to be able to power your equipment.
Not only that, but the smaller the ship compared to the nos the better cap flux will perform to keep your cap up and the nos from getting much.
What is required is the proper boost for cap flux.
____
"If your not dyin' your not tryin'."
"Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle |
4 LOM
Universal Agencies
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Posted - 2006.08.01 03:10:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Woopie
Originally by: Cosmo Raata
1) ... But I still think tracking is the answer. Not sure why people are so reluctant to agree with this.
I think it's because the Caldari don't understand that concept 
/me runs and ducks...
You think I dont understand tracking when i fly the slowest ships with the biggest sig radiuses? Thats why i dont like the idea of tracking because my ships are allready the easiest to hit.
Someone suggested 15% total cap transfer from one ship to the other. that sounded really good, who wouldnt want a mod that increases your cap 15% and reduces the enemyes 15%? would still mean nos are usefull but would not make crazy how they are now (i am talking large ship fights. you can nos my crow all you want but unless you unleash a wave of tech 2 small drones on me i dont really care about you. All of you claiming nos killed your small ships either dont know how to fit or dont know how to fly.)
Originally by: Twilight Moon
of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
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LordZer00
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.01 03:46:00 -
[84]
Lets Pray that the Dev's don't base any decisions on the feedback from these Forums... While we all want our voices heard here, many good MMOG's have been utterly ruined by the devs of those games paying way too much attention to what the "community" wanted (correction- To what the *community* thought it wanted).
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4 LOM
Universal Agencies
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Posted - 2006.08.01 04:38:00 -
[85]
Originally by: LordZer00
Lets Pray that the Dev's don't base any decisions on the feedback from these Forums... While we all want our voices heard here, many good MMOG's have been utterly ruined by the devs of those games paying way too much attention to what the "community" wanted (correction- To what the *community* thought it wanted).
First bit of sanity i have heard in a while... I have started to whine myself but i think i will stop. thank you for hitting me on the head with that, CCP has made a good game so far and i think we should learn to stop whinning and complaining about every little thing thats not how I want it.
Originally by: Twilight Moon
of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
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Kalixa Hihro
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Posted - 2006.08.01 04:39:00 -
[86]
Originally by: LordZer00
Lets Pray that the Dev's don't base any decisions on the feedback from these Forums... While we all want our voices heard here, many good MMOG's have been utterly ruined by the devs of those games paying way too much attention to what the "community" wanted (correction- To what the *community* thought it wanted).
/signed
Don't cry nerf, learn the game, train the skill and use powerful mods to your advantage.
I said above that maybe NOS isn't what needs nerfing, implying that maybe Mini needs nerfing since NOS can't stop it from firing.
By the same token as soon as I am all tech II on the megathron (about 8 days) I will be learning the ways of the minmatar. Fast ships that don't need cap to shoot is a good thing in my book.
Gallente is good for NPCing and making money, Minmatar is better for PvP.
Since I like PvP a lot, That's what I am training.
I come from the school of learn the damn game and play it, don't cry about the rules. If you don't like the rules, play something else.
This is what ruined SWG and ends up ruining every MMOG, loud whiny crybabies.
The people ( the majority ) who like the game and don't complain on the forums every single stinking day get screwed by a few whiny crybabies that post over and over and over about their pet peeve until the devs get sick of listening to it, make the change and end up screwing up the balance, ruining it for everyone else.
Don't cry about NOS, train the skills and use it.
Same goes for EWAR.
Same goes for WCS.
Same for drones, and whatever else you feel like crying about.
>climbing back down from soap box<
Nice post LordZer00. You are 100% correct.
I've lost many ships to Heavy NOS, and now I can use it. No crying here, just skill training.
-Kal
/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
My opinion in no way represents that of my corp or anyone I am associated with, and is probably entirely wrong. |
Mal Hondo
THeOThErs
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.01 06:23:00 -
[87]
suggestion - make NOS racial.
flame here >>>>>> v
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God forbid
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.08.01 18:13:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Edited by: Andrea Jaruwalski on 30/07/2006 11:35:13
I think CCP needs to take changes in slowly.
WCS nerf, see how it goes.
ECM nerf, see how it goes.
Nos nerf, see how it already fallen apart from WCS nerf.
Seriously, if you all change this in one step, it's going to wreck alot of things in EVE 
Originally by: Sarmaul
Slap the stacking penalty on it for starters
Yes, And maybe do that for smartbomb, Launchers and turrets and every other highslots in the game so this becomes a lovely stacked up piece of crap game.
Shesh, Sig radius affecting nos? No. It doesn't make much sense.
It would do eve even better it allready is..  go ccp go ccp.. I want some changes now.. 
Quote:
"He did not know, Who he was ******* with."
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Centurin
Sturmgrenadier Inc
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Posted - 2006.08.01 18:23:00 -
[89]
Where did you read about the Devs nerfing NOS? I can't find a single mention of them even looking at NOS.
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Dukath
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Posted - 2006.08.01 18:40:00 -
[90]
The only 'nerf' a nos needs is a penalty for 'overnossing' someone.
You try to nos 300 cap from a ship that only has 50 cap (left)? Then your own ship will lose (300 - 50) * 2 cap as overload penalty.
This would make nossing frigs a bit more costly and also add some skill into nossing other ships. Knowing when to use only 1 nos to keep him down in stead of just keeping the 8 nosses on the ship all the time.
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