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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
A Skillkilla
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.09.07 17:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
OK, so CCP added a bunch of refining changes in order to make it more like a "profession"...
Did they realize, within a few days, hundreds (or even thousands) of re-prefected refiners would flood the market with their service, making perfect refining close to worthless?
Did they realize, that making a "profession" with -zero- variable time cost will, almost always, have no long term value?
Oh, and 'apprentice' refiners make negative isk with their service... some profession!
These new changes were mainly just to fill their changelog with a bunch of worthless crap. A few weeks in and refining is exactly as it was before.
If they -really- wanted to make refining a profession, they would have to add time constraints to refining, and maybe reduce manufacturing costs to rebalance finished goods price.
Remember, inanimate objects don't use isk. You are paying for SERVICES, not GOODS. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4623
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Posted - 2014.09.07 17:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Refining a profession? I must have missed something. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13008
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Posted - 2014.09.07 17:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
NPC highsec refiner is angry that his highsec business doesn't make as much money as null refiners. And now for the weather. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Dave Stark
6840
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Posted - 2014.09.07 17:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:NPC highsec refiner is angry that his highsec business doesn't make as much money as null refiners. And now for the weather.
i hear compression is the new black these days, do you think he should try that instead? |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
85
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Posted - 2014.09.07 17:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:baltec1 wrote:NPC highsec refiner is angry that his highsec business doesn't make as much money as null refiners. And now for the weather. i hear compression is the new black these days, do you think he should try that instead?
Nope, compression is rubbish and it never sells ;-)
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6345
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Posted - 2014.09.07 17:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
When the fark was refining ever a profession?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
6570
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Posted - 2014.09.07 18:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:When the fark was refining ever a profession?
I did it some time a few years ago and at least then there were all sorts of guides and spread sheets specifically for it. It was/is? a sub category of buying stuff below its real market value and then selling it for a profit. It is just thought as separate niche, since it required you to train a few refining skills to maximize the gains. |
A Skillkilla
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.09.07 18:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
CAREER:Reprocessor
I also saw in some ccp post about how they wanted to create "dedicated" refiners, and were thus "adding new professions"
Besides, about null-sec refining... I saw mins go for under the value of a 80% refine yield, and thats not achievable. |
A Skillkilla
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.09.07 18:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:baltec1 wrote:NPC highsec refiner is angry that his highsec business doesn't make as much money as null refiners. And now for the weather. i hear compression is the new black these days, do you think he should try that instead?
OK, so there are 3 types of jobs in eve:
ACTIVE professions: requre time, and constant user intervention during that time (aka mining, combat, salvaging, trading, etc) -> High isk gain PASSIVE professions: require time, but no user intervention during that time (research points, blueprint copying, manufacturing, etc...) -> Moderate isk gain NON professions: require no time at all (refining, instant buy-sell in same station, etc)
All of these can be improved with training (aka fixed cost), but only produce isk gain off the variable cost (aka time required to complete the action). Refining is a skill that only produces isk off the fixed time cost (aka no variable cost) and thus will become worthless over time when two competitors with similar skills enter the market.
Adding something like "null-sec bonus" is meaningless, because with two null sec refiners the value of the refine will compete to zero... mainly because each refiner has infinite supply of refining service.
There is the logistics of getting the refine into jita, but again thats a logistics profit, not an industry profit. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20721
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Posted - 2014.09.07 18:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
A Skillkilla wrote:OK, so there are 3 types of jobs in eve If you're treating Eve as a job you're either farming gold or doing it wrong.
Isk p/h != fun p/h The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
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A Skillkilla
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.09.07 18:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:A Skillkilla wrote:OK, so there are 3 types of jobs in eve If you're treating Eve as a job you're either farming gold or doing it wrong. Isk p/h != fun p/h
Well, you can say that about real life too! If you hate your day job, you can quit life by jumping off a bridge anytime =D |
Charax Bouclier
Emerald Drama Theatrics
59
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Posted - 2014.09.07 18:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hmm - well, there certainly is an opportunity to further expand reprocessing. Perhaps reprocessing should take some time (instead of being instant), and have further skills to speed up reprocessing time etc (and add skills per resource being reprocessed in terms of time). Maybe add a further system cost if everyone is using the same reprocessing station.
Drive up dem costs!! |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20721
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Posted - 2014.09.07 19:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
A Skillkilla wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:A Skillkilla wrote:OK, so there are 3 types of jobs in eve If you're treating Eve as a job you're either farming gold or doing it wrong. Isk p/h != fun p/h Well, you can say that about real life too! If you hate your day job, you can quit life by jumping off a bridge anytime =D Well that escalated quickly...
Pisspoor analogy btw, real life is a damn sight more serious than a form of completely voluntary digital entertainment.
The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
A Skillkilla
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.09.07 19:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Charax Bouclier wrote:Hmm - well, there certainly is an opportunity to further expand reprocessing. Perhaps reprocessing should take some time (instead of being instant), and have further skills to speed up reprocessing time etc (and add skills per resource being reprocessed in terms of time). Maybe add a further system cost if everyone is using the same reprocessing station.
Drive up dem costs!!
Or they can share the same skills such as Industry, etc... And current manufacturing can have it's time/cost reduced to compensate.
The point isn't to make everything more expensive, the point is to turn reprocessing into an actual source of isk gain instead of the time sink it is right now.
I mean, it does have logistic value due to reduced m3/isk, but logistics and industry are not really supposed to share the same skill set.
Besides, if you were to make a rl analogy, extracting minerals from ore DOES take time! |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
823
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Posted - 2014.09.07 19:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Holy... I need to go and fetch some popcorn. Remove insurance. |
A Skillkilla
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.09.07 19:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:A Skillkilla wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:A Skillkilla wrote:OK, so there are 3 types of jobs in eve If you're treating Eve as a job you're either farming gold or doing it wrong. Isk p/h != fun p/h Well, you can say that about real life too! If you hate your day job, you can quit life by jumping off a bridge anytime =D Well that escalated quickly... Pisspoor analogy btw, real life is a damn sight more serious than a form of completely voluntary digital entertainment.
Tell that to Neo! What, exactly, makes life "more serious" than a video game? is it the additional senses such as pain, etc? The point of a video game is to immerse yourself in it. If you don't take the game seriously, the game failed it's responsibility towards you, the customer. My point being, you being alive is just as optional. The only difference is the "fear of the unknown", as in you can predict the outcome of quitting the game, but you can't predict the outcome of quitting life. |
Charax Bouclier
Emerald Drama Theatrics
59
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Posted - 2014.09.07 19:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
A Skillkilla wrote:Charax Bouclier wrote:Hmm - well, there certainly is an opportunity to further expand reprocessing. Perhaps reprocessing should take some time (instead of being instant), and have further skills to speed up reprocessing time etc (and add skills per resource being reprocessed in terms of time). Maybe add a further system cost if everyone is using the same reprocessing station.
Drive up dem costs!! Or they can share the same skills such as Industry, etc... And current manufacturing can have it's time/cost reduced to compensate. The point isn't to make everything more expensive, the point is to turn reprocessing into an actual source of isk gain instead of the time sink it is right now. I mean, it does have logistic value due to reduced m3/isk, but logistics and industry are not really supposed to share the same skill set. Besides, if you were to make a rl analogy, extracting minerals from ore DOES take time!
No, I realize it isn't about driving up dem costs, but it would happen if reprocessing couldn't insta-reprocess infinite ore to minerals. This could make reprocessing into a potential profession if there was a time component to the activity attached based on volume reprocessed.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20721
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Posted - 2014.09.07 19:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
A Skillkilla wrote:Tell that to Neo! What, exactly, makes life "more serious" than a video game? is it the additional senses such as pain, etc? One clothes and feeds you, the other rarely does.
Quote:The point of a video game is to immerse yourself in it. If you don't take the game seriously, the game failed it's responsibility towards you, the customer. The point of a video game is escapism, nowhere else do I get to tool around in spaceships spewing fiery death at other people.
Quote:My point being, you being alive is just as optional. The only difference is the "fear of the unknown", as in you can predict the outcome of quitting the game, but you can't predict the outcome of quitting life. Life is only optional if you care nothing for it.
Quitting a video game can enhance your life, quitting life does not, as it generally means you're either dead or living in a cardboard box under a bridge. The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4623
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 19:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Why not make mining a mini-game like candy crush? It would be fitting to the activity and candy crush is highly popular. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
A Skillkilla
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.09.07 19:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:A Skillkilla wrote:Tell that to Neo! What, exactly, makes life "more serious" than a video game? is it the additional senses such as pain, etc? One clothes and feeds you, the other rarely does. Quote:The point of a video game is to immerse yourself in it. If you don't take the game seriously, the game failed it's responsibility towards you, the customer. The point of a video game is escapism, nowhere else do I get to tool around in spaceships spewing fiery death at other people. Quote:My point being, you being alive is just as optional. The only difference is the "fear of the unknown", as in you can predict the outcome of quitting the game, but you can't predict the outcome of quitting life. Life is only optional if you care nothing for it. Quitting a video game can enhance your life, quitting life does not, as it generally means you're either dead or living in a cardboard box under a bridge.
Your desire for clothing and food again falls to your desire to avoid pain. I'm not telling you that video games and life are the same, I'm telling you that your definition of reality comes down to where you feel the most pain.
A kid in sierra leone, for example, would consider life in the USA to be like "a game", because the fear of pain is much smaller.
Yet you, an average high class human, have a computer to type on. And you know very little of the 'reality' some face every day.
Oh, and I forgot to mention... Did you know less than 10% of jobs in developed nations are devoted to "pain avoidance"? Here in the USA, the food comes from Mexico and the clothes come from India. A "REAL LIFE" waged job here would merely be to provide some form of entertainment and/or competitive advantage to those who live off percentages. |
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
4715
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 19:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
A Skillkilla wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:A Skillkilla wrote:OK, so there are 3 types of jobs in eve If you're treating Eve as a job you're either farming gold or doing it wrong. Isk p/h != fun p/h Well, you can say that about real life too! If you hate your day job, you can quit life by jumping off a bridge anytime =D No you can say that about life. =][= |
A Skillkilla
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.09.07 19:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:A Skillkilla wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:A Skillkilla wrote:OK, so there are 3 types of jobs in eve If you're treating Eve as a job you're either farming gold or doing it wrong. Isk p/h != fun p/h Well, you can say that about real life too! If you hate your day job, you can quit life by jumping off a bridge anytime =D No you can say that about life. After several near death experiences, I can tell you... death is like getting stung by a bee. Watching it hover you is far more painful than the actual needle. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
823
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 19:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
A Skillkilla wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:A Skillkilla wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:A Skillkilla wrote:OK, so there are 3 types of jobs in eve If you're treating Eve as a job you're either farming gold or doing it wrong. Isk p/h != fun p/h Well, you can say that about real life too! If you hate your day job, you can quit life by jumping off a bridge anytime =D No you can say that about life. After several near death experiences, I can tell you... death is like getting stung by a bee. Watching it hover you is far more painful than the actual needle. You have no idea what you are talking about. Remove insurance. |
Felicity Love
Imperium Galactic Navy
2123
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 20:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
A Skillkilla wrote:OK, so CCP added a bunch of refining changes in order to make it more like a "profession"...
Did they realize, within a few days, hundreds (or even thousands) of re-prefected refiners would flood the market with their service, making perfect refining close to worthless?
Nope and, nope.
Give it a few months, when all those pre-Crius stockpiles of minerals are gone. Add to that the fact that more and more people just aren't mining.
Said "flood" of minerals has bottomed out the top-ends to ridiculously low prices (buy 'em now, buy 'em cheap ? ) and who the Hell wants to work for "minimum wage" ? Not many, and they've left.
Nevermind the fact of how hard that still makes it to PLEX accounts on miner's pay... BLINK may be gone, but PLEX are still pricey.
"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.-á-á ( Pick four, any four. They all smell. -á)
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Torneach Structor
Showup Fleet
80
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 22:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
Wait, was this thread about refining or the nature of life and death?
I seem to have lost track somewhere along the way... |
A Skillkilla
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 00:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote: You have no idea what you are talking about.
Have you ever performed a medically assisted suicide? |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4626
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 01:05:00 -
[27] - Quote
A Skillkilla wrote:Mara Pahrdi wrote: You have no idea what you are talking about.
Have you ever performed a medically assisted suicide? We're not going into unverifiable-claims-land here. Not with this. Alright? Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
928
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 03:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
A Skillkilla wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:A Skillkilla wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:A Skillkilla wrote:OK, so there are 3 types of jobs in eve If you're treating Eve as a job you're either farming gold or doing it wrong. Isk p/h != fun p/h Well, you can say that about real life too! If you hate your day job, you can quit life by jumping off a bridge anytime =D Well that escalated quickly... Pisspoor analogy btw, real life is a damn sight more serious than a form of completely voluntary digital entertainment. Tell that to Neo! What, exactly, makes life "more serious" than a video game? is it the additional senses such as pain, etc? The point of a video game is to immerse yourself in it. If you don't take the game seriously, the game failed it's responsibility towards you, the customer. My point being, you being alive is just as optional. The only difference is the "fear of the unknown", as in you can predict the outcome of quitting the game, but you can't predict the outcome of quitting life. Tell me what? |
Lister Vindaloo
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2014.09.08 12:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Came here to see the phrase "medically assisted suicide" used in a thread about refining changes, left happy..... |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6908
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Posted - 2014.09.08 12:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
A Skillkilla wrote:Mara Pahrdi wrote: You have no idea what you are talking about.
Have you ever performed a medically assisted suicide?
Yup "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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