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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 10 post(s)
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 20:30:00 - [61] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 31/07/2006 20:33:35 You know, it might not be such a bad thing that this ship is a shield tanker...it allows for a gank + tank setup that has more dps than Megathron & Hyperion up close.. While the gallente blasterships can only fit 1 damage mod and still have room for a good tank, the Maelstrom can fit 3 damage mods and still have a decent shield tank. 1x MWD 1x Cap injector 1x Warp disruptor 1x XLarge shield booster 2x Invulnerability field II No room for web and EM resists will be low. Tanking will be decent, although not uber in any way. If this ship has tacklers in the group, the tank can become really good. Anyway... Now check the dps graph with 8 of those lovely 800mm guns fitted (if it fits)... Lovely isnt it? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Kaylana Syi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.31 21:13:00 - [62] Originally by: Jim McGregor Now check the dps graph with 8 of those lovely 800mm guns fitted (if it fits)... Lovely isnt it? Hail is rubbish for anything except large sig objects that need to come within 6km of you like a blasterthron or hyperion. Anything else... barrage and phased plasma are going to be king of the hill ammo choices. HAIL has 2 penalties going specifically against this ship and 8 ACs make this ship's cargo bay inferior for cap injector charges which is your only choice for your cap to not utterly die. Basically... HAIL breaks the maelstrom in most fights. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Arian Snow Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.31 21:23:00 - [63] I have never understood the shield boost bonus on matari ships its clearly alot worse than a res bonus also it kills the versatility of the ship, which supposedly is minmatars greatest strength. To me the Maelstrom looks like a cheapass version of the Rokh. It has a worse slot layout. Also the boost bonus is clearly worse than the res bonus. All that would change if they killed the Shield boost bonus and gave the ship a Cap bonus or something nonspecific (do the same to the Cyclone as well!!!). So my 5cents: remove the Shield Boost bonus give the Maelstrom a cap bonus instead and leave the rest alone, then I will love this ship! I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.07.31 21:31:00 - [64] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 31/07/2006 20:52:20 You know, it might not be such a bad thing that this ship is a shield tanker...it allows for a gank + tank setup that has more dps than Megathron & Hyperion up close.. While the gallente blasterships can only fit 1 damage mod and still have room for a good tank, the Maelstrom can fit 3 damage mods and still have a decent shield tank. 1x MWD 1x Cap injector 1x Warp disruptor 1x XLarge shield booster 2x Invulnerability field II No room for web and EM resists will be low. Tanking will be decent, although not uber in any way. If this ship has tacklers in the group, the tank can become really good. Anyway... Now check the dps graph with 8 of those lovely 800mm guns fitted (if it fits)... Lovely isnt it? you should include even the Rokh, it outdps the mael basically at every range, with same tracking, imo generally better damage type and, with same mid slots, better tank. is one of the reasons i think, to have these 2 ships balanced, the mael need 1 more mid slot so he will be able to build a bit more sturdy tank than the rokh
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 21:42:00 - [65] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 31/07/2006 21:47:19 Originally by: Ath Amon you should include even the Rokh, it outdps the mael basically at every range, with same tracking, imo generally better damage type and, with same mid slots, better tank. It doesnt, but its close if the fight take place under 10000 meters. If its at 20000 meters Maelstrom has about 200 more dps compared to the Rohk. But Rohk has the superior tank, thats for sure, and also wont have any speed penalties. And here is some sniper dps, where the Abaddon looks absolutely lethal. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2006.07.31 21:58:00 - [66] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 31/07/2006 20:52:20 You know, it might not be such a bad thing that this ship is a shield tanker...it allows for a gank + tank setup that has more dps than Megathron & Hyperion up close.. While the gallente blasterships can only fit 1 damage mod and still have room for a good tank, the Maelstrom can fit 3 damage mods and still have a decent shield tank. 1x MWD 1x Cap injector 1x Warp disruptor 1x XLarge shield booster 2x Invulnerability field II No room for web and EM resists will be low. Tanking will be decent, although not uber in any way. If this ship has tacklers in the group, the tank can become really good. Anyway... Now check the dps graph with 8 of those lovely 800mm guns fitted (if it fits)... Lovely isnt it? Excuse me but is it a T1 or shield T2 booster? It makes a big difference. When using T2 booster I could only fit 425mm's, AB and 2 t2 gyros with 0.25 cpu left. It seems like most ships, if you want T2 tank you can't do damage. The T2 tank I fitted with small guns had a slightly better tank than the max tank of a Tempest so i'm unsure how you get more tank+damage than the Mega. full setup posting 4tw :-p ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.07.31 22:03:00 - [67] Edited by: Ath Amon on 31/07/2006 22:05:46 Edited by: Ath Amon on 31/07/2006 22:04:39 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 31/07/2006 21:47:19 Originally by: Ath Amon you should include even the Rokh, it outdps the mael basically at every range, with same tracking, imo generally better damage type and, with same mid slots, better tank. It doesnt, but its close if the fight take place under 10000 meters. If its at 20000 meters Maelstrom has about 200 more dps compared to the Rohk. But Rohk has the superior tank, thats for sure, and also wont have any speed penalties. And here is some sniper dps, where the Abaddon looks absolutely lethal. no i was referring mostly to the t2 range ammos and t1 ones t2 damage imho are a bit useless even on mael as his tank will still be weaker and can't dictate range... (ahhh try this abaddon with 8 mega, range ammo, 3 heatsinks and 1-3 tracking comps)
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 22:06:00 - [68] Originally by: Mila Prestoc Excuse me but is it a T1 or shield T2 booster? It makes a big difference. When using T2 booster I could only fit 425mm's, AB and 2 t2 gyros with 0.25 cpu left. It seems like most ships, if you want T2 tank you can't do damage. The T2 tank I fitted with small guns had a slightly better tank than the max tank of a Tempest so i'm unsure how you get more tank+damage than the Mega. full setup posting 4tw :-p It wasnt intended to be a proper fitting... I didnt even include module names. The stats on the ships are not final yet, so its pointless really. Just wanted to say that it might be possible to get a decent autocannon setup on this ship after all. Or maybe not. We'll see. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
KilROCK Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.31 22:12:00 - [69] I support this suggestion SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 22:14:00 - [70] Originally by: Ath Amon (ahhh try this abaddon with 8 mega, range ammo, 3 heatsinks and 1-3 tracking comps) 8 Megabeam T2 (3 damage mods, 3 tracking comps) with Aurora gives 551 dps out to about 170.000 meters. So about 50 less dps than tachyons. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.07.31 22:17:00 - [71] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Ath Amon (ahhh try this abaddon with 8 mega, range ammo, 3 heatsinks and 1-3 tracking comps) 8 Megabeam T2 (3 damage mods, 3 tracking comps) with Aurora gives 551 dps out to about 170.000 meters. So about 50 less dps than tachyons. yup yup but look at distance not a solo ship for sure but imo quite scaring (tachs at 50km have troubles with tracking :( )
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 22:20:00 - [72] Originally by: Ath Amon yup yup but look at distance not a solo ship for sure but imo quite scaring (tachs at 50km have troubles with tracking :( ) It will be very scary, yeah.... More Abaddon insanity --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.07.31 22:56:00 - [73] Originally by: Jim McGregor It will be very scary, yeah.... More Abaddon insanity That's with Icomeinpeace's 5% damage/level bonus, not the abaddon and its stats as in Tux's blog NB.
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2006.07.31 22:59:00 - [74] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Mila Prestoc Excuse me but is it a T1 or shield T2 booster? It makes a big difference. When using T2 booster I could only fit 425mm's, AB and 2 t2 gyros with 0.25 cpu left. It seems like most ships, if you want T2 tank you can't do damage. The T2 tank I fitted with small guns had a slightly better tank than the max tank of a Tempest so i'm unsure how you get more tank+damage than the Mega. full setup posting 4tw :-p It wasnt intended to be a proper fitting... I didnt even include module names. The stats on the ships are not final yet, so its pointless really. Just wanted to say that it might be possible to get a decent autocannon setup on this ship after all. Or maybe not. We'll see. Understood, CPU is a very important factor, its the main constraint. See some of setups I posted on team minmatar with stats from the proposal. I think it would take 650 CPU to upgrade the guns, probably 675 for the gyros to. 700 CPU to get a MWD on it to. Thats without changing the T2 tank, named cap booster and named scram+web. I find putting setups to proposed stats gives an idea of there ability more than comparing it to other ships stats. So you saying and showing graphs of a Mael out tanking + damaging a mega in this "proposal" topic could give the people who type before they think something to whine at. The stats in this proposal prevent T2 800mm's, 3x gyros and a T2 tank without a CPU II. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 23:05:00 - [75] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Jim McGregor It will be very scary, yeah.... More Abaddon insanity That's with Icomeinpeace's 5% damage/level bonus, not the abaddon and its stats as in Tux's blog NB. Oh thank god... Thanks mate. Didnt know. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 23:08:00 - [76] Originally by: Mila Prestoc Understood, CPU is a very important factor, its the main constraint. See some of setups I posted on team minmatar with stats from the proposal. I think it would take 650 CPU to upgrade the guns, probably 675 for the gyros to. 700 CPU to get a MWD on it to. Thats without changing the T2 tank, named cap booster and named scram+web. I find putting setups to proposed stats gives an idea of there ability more than comparing it to other ships stats. So you saying and showing graphs of a Mael out tanking + damaging a mega in this "proposal" topic could give the people who type before they think something to whine at. The stats in this proposal prevent T2 800mm's, 3x gyros and a T2 tank without a CPU II. Good point. Just found myself happy about some minmatar dps that wasnt crappy... I figured this ship could work with 6 mediums and still have a use. But its looking more and more like its not going to turn out that way... Oh well. We'll see. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Tiuwaz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.31 23:16:00 - [77] Originally by: KilROCK I support this suggestion dang! where did we go wrong? Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Sovereign533 Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.01 00:15:00 - [78] wow, this is the best topic i read on the tier 3 bs's. no whining, just what you would like to see. congrats, and let this be an example to other ppl. don't whine, you won't get anything from this. but post something like this... --------------------------------------------- Creation of the Human race, Power to overwhelm and Destroy... A product of effort and grace... The feeling of helplessness is your best friend savage.
Jevnikar	Posted - 2006.08.01 09:18:00 - [79] i am sorry but i got to whine since noone of you is never happy with what you get.... opening threeds like this before ships even fly empire is pointless. wouldnt it be better, if you just wait to see one in space, see what it's capable off, found out if it realy missed it's purpes and then start proposing. rgr J.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.08.01 10:12:00 - [80] Originally by: KilROCK I support this suggestion With KilROCK's blessing, let it be done! Scrapheap Challenge Forums

Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.08.01 10:13:00 - [81] Originally by: Jevnikar i am sorry but i got to whine since noone of you is never happy with what you get.... opening threeds like this before ships even fly empire is pointless. wouldnt it be better, if you just wait to see one in space, see what it's capable off, found out if it realy missed it's purpes and then start proposing. rgr J. Read the quote. We saw the test stats, and Tuxford suggested that we suggest better ones if we didnt like them. I do agree too much complaining is done about ships we havent seen yet, but in this case, we weren't going to refuse a direct invitation now were we? :P Scrapheap Challenge Forums
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.08.01 10:15:00 - [82] Originally by: Jevnikar i am sorry but i got to whine since noone of you is never happy with what you get.... opening threeds like this before ships even fly empire is pointless. wouldnt it be better, if you just wait to see one in space, see what it's capable off, found out if it realy missed it's purpes and then start proposing. rgr J. Because mate the same happen with t2 ammo we tough that they would change the stats,and they didn't ,and then it was to late ;(. I think that it will stay 8/6/6 and with the shield bonus
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.08.01 10:17:00 - [83] Originally by: Mila Prestoc So you saying and showing graphs of a Mael out tanking + damaging a mega in this "proposal" topic could give the people who type before they think something to whine at. The stats in this proposal prevent T2 800mm's, 3x gyros and a T2 tank without a CPU II. Actually, they don't prevent T2 800mm IIs, but to fit a decent shield tank and Gyros etc leaves you with next to no fitting. And when I ssay next to none, I mean less than 1. I have maxed fitting skills though (other than shield upgrades, which I have at 4). What you can't do, is fit 800mms, a decent shield tank, gyros, and a cap booster. To be honest, it's fair that not everything fits easily - all of the arguments that say 'I WANT TO FULL RACK EVERYTHING ON EVERY ONE OF MY BS' are idiotic - and also 650s are just as good as 800s, really, so you could try for them. Cept for the ammo consumption :( Scrapheap Challenge Forums
Isabelle Velchan	Posted - 2006.08.01 10:55:00 - [84] Originally by: Pesadel0 Because mate the same happen with t2 ammo we tough that they would change the stats,and they didn't ,and then it was to late ;(. I think that it will stay 8/6/6 and with the shield bonus Unofficial info posted elsewhere seemed to indicate that the current build only had 8/6/5 (with roughly the same pg/cpu). So really, there are two groups of people here arguing for a boost - whether they realised it or not. One group wants 8/6/6, the other 8/7/5. And if we have to choose between the two, the latter gets my vote.
Tiuwaz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.01 16:42:00 - [85] if i could somehow change the bonuses it would be 5% dmg 5% shield resists or 10% shield hp (or something like that) that is under the assumption that they intend the maelstrom for artillery, because the current bonuses make little sense for that in my opinion Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.08.01 18:21:00 - [86] Originally by: Isabelle Velchan Originally by: Pesadel0 Because mate the same happen with t2 ammo we tough that they would change the stats,and they didn't ,and then it was to late ;(. I think that it will stay 8/6/6 and with the shield bonus Unofficial info posted elsewhere seemed to indicate that the current build only had 8/6/5 (with roughly the same pg/cpu). So really, there are two groups of people here arguing for a boost - whether they realized it or not. One group wants 8/6/6, the other 8/7/5. And if we have to choose between the two, the latter gets my vote. If the slot layout is going to be 8/6/6 i don't want to have a bonus(shield) that binds me to shield tank a 6 med slots turret BS,scrap that shield bonus and give it a damage/speed/whatever bonus. If they manage to make her a 8/7/5 ,then as much as i don't like shield boosting matari ships ,i can see that slot layout will give room to some crazy sweet setups.
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2006.08.01 19:29:00 - [87] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Mila Prestoc So you saying and showing graphs of a Mael out tanking + damaging a mega in this "proposal" topic could give the people who type before they think something to whine at. The stats in this proposal prevent T2 800mm's, 3x gyros and a T2 tank without a CPU II. Actually, they don't prevent T2 800mm IIs, but to fit a decent shield tank and Gyros etc leaves you with next to no fitting. And when I ssay next to none, I mean less than 1. I have maxed fitting skills though (other than shield upgrades, which I have at 4). What you can't do, is fit 800mms, a decent shield tank, gyros, and a cap booster. To be honest, it's fair that not everything fits easily - all of the arguments that say 'I WANT TO FULL RACK EVERYTHING ON EVERY ONE OF MY BS' are idiotic - and also 650s are just as good as 800s, really, so you could try for them. Cept for the ammo consumption :( Exactly the point i'm trying to get across about this proposal. You can fit the largest tier T2 guns only if you compromise the tanking by dropping all to T1/named or using a large booster instead of X-L. This is how all ships works, if you want max damage you have less tank, if you want great tank you have less damage. Thats what's making this proposal so balanced. You have to compromise so no one can say "you shouldn't be able to fit your dream setups" because these setups arn't ones you'd dream of. I showed an example setup to show what sort of tank it can do compared to a Tempests max-tank. By using 4 mids and 1 low you get a practically identical tank to a pests 1 mid and 5 lows. The bonus to give a free amp is a "free mid" in essecence which is the only reason the tank is slightly better with the same tackling gear. Yet its slower, heavier and bigger so will take more damage. If it were to get 6 mids you would have to drop either the AB/web/scram or the tank would be worse than a Tempest which is just silly. 625 to 650 CPU is perfect in my eyes with 7 mids and 5 lows. Anything more and you would be able to use 650's or maybe 800's with a full T2 tank. Anything less and even with smallest guns you'd need a CPU to fit a T2 tank which a Tempest can do with no fitting mod. PG only comes into it when using Arty. Should you be able to fit a full rack of 1400mm T2's without fitting mod? Yes, but only with AWU 5. This is the same as a Thrasher with 280mm T2's and Rupture with 720mm T2's. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Raziel Demon	Posted - 2006.08.01 21:46:00 - [88] Originally by: Tuxford I wrote something about this bonus in my next blog which should come out soon, and basically I agree, the cap bonus isn't very sweet bonus and of the 4 tier 3 battleship Hyperion is probably the worst in its current form on the development server. Don't assume that we're blissfully ignorant about that though, in fact I've already changed the bonus to,... drumroll please,... mass addition reduction bonus. Was mostly a mad idea but I guess its worth a look at. Still I think when the other get a tanking bonus they will win over this one. Anyway I'll be on and off vacation for about two weeks so if there comes fresh static on SISI don't be surprised if some of it is a bit funky Seccond page of Hyperion thread... nice
Hellraiza666 Regeneration Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.01 22:01:00 - [89] Fitting CPU: 625 PG: 21000 HI-slots: 8 MID-slots: 7 LO-slots: 5 Turrets: 8 Launchers: 3 21k power grid, haha yeah right.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.01 22:03:00 - [90] Originally by: Raziel Demon Seccond page of Hyperion thread... nice He is on and off vacation though. But he talks about a blog coming out soon, so maybe that one will reveal if he thinks this ship looks fine or not. At least they are messing around with the ships. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate



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