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CB Apollo	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:30:00 - [1] Edited by: CB Apollo on 02/08/2006 08:31:10 Ive been looking at the crow, I need a setup that can orbit at 13km (ish) and have a 20km scram + MWD running forever. In order to get that running forever on a crow you need 3 relays or one relay and a small battery II. I also want max speed and damage I can get with the last 2 low slots and that one medium. So I ended up with this: 3x Rocket Launcher II 1x Gistii MWD 1x Fleeting Warp Scram (20km) 1x Small Cap Battery II 1x Relay 1x Ballistic COntrol Syst II 1x Local Nanofiber Structure I Max speed = 5,432 m/s DPS = 86.287 with only tech 1 missiles Range = 15.18 km (5062.5m/sec X 3 seconds) Runs forever I dont see alot tracking this, therefore its rather URBER. Is there any other ceptor that can meet these stats AND still hit the target? If this went againt other ceptors they would loose every time I think. This seriously needs a nerf!!!111oneoneone Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:31:00 - [2] Old news. Crow is uber because it doesnt have to track. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Dethis Caldari Eve University The Big Blue	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:33:00 - [3] Word on the street is crow is inty easy mode -------- Kill em all and let god sort em out
CB Apollo	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:33:00 - [4] Originally by: Jim McGregor Old news. Crow is uber because it doesnt have to track. Old news or not, I think all small turrets need a boost to range or tracking, coz its stupid how it is. NO ceptor can orbit out of web range, MWD and scramble AND track the target so they can do that kind of damage?! Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques
CB Apollo	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:35:00 - [5] Originally by: Dethis Word on the street is crow is inty easy mode Easy or not, any cant other races have intys that WORK. ALL other ships have to get in close and prey that the target dont have a webber. Its stupid that the crow can just sit out there and do this, while other ceptors struggle to get that long range, and when they do 90% of the time they cant track.... so whats the point. Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:37:00 - [6] Crow is balanced and I prefer Raptor over Crow. If you nerf Crow, you will need to nerf many other Interceptors. ---------------- Patience is a quality that most people seem to lack.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:40:00 - [7] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Crow is balanced and I prefer Raptor over Crow. If you nerf Crow, you will need to nerf many other Interceptors. Jenny, do you ever agree that something Caldari might be a tad overpowered? Ive never seen that... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
CB Apollo	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:41:00 - [8] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Crow is balanced and I prefer Raptor over Crow. If you nerf Crow, you will need to nerf many other Interceptors. Other ceptors cant sit at the holy 11-19km orbit and scramble, MWD and do nearly 100DPS FFS. A crusader is the only thing that comes close, BUT its 60 DPS and cant track for s**t with dual light beams... Its annoying how missiles get nerfed, then they are given a boost on different ways so they are still the same URBER wep for pvp. The crow is also not affected by a sensor dampner, or a tracking disruptor or 5! Theres no way to limit the missiles range, or catch it. The only thing fast enough (crusader) doesnt even have enough mids to fit a webber FFS. Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:42:00 - [9] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 02/08/2006 08:42:06 Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Crow is balanced and I prefer Raptor over Crow. If you nerf Crow, you will need to nerf many other Interceptors. Jenny, do you ever agree that something Caldari might be a tad overpowered? Ive never seen that... Caldari are not overpowered. They are balanced. They used to be overpowered though. Other races are not balanced and that is the reason Caldari appear to be overpowered at the moment. ---------------- Patience is a quality that most people seem to lack.
CB Apollo	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:46:00 - [10] Lets do a comparison: Blaster-Ranis vs crow = crow (ranis cant get in range) Rail-Ranis vs crow = crow (ranis cant track crow) Beam-Crusader vs crow = crow (crusader cant track crow) Pulse-Crusader vs crow = crow (crusader cant get in range for long enough) Claw-AC vs crow = crow (claw cant get in range for long enough) Claw-ARTY vs crow = Crow (Claw cant track crow) Any others? Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques

Pattern Clarc Dark Destiny Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:47:00 - [11] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Caldari are not overpowered. They are balanced. They used to be overpowered though. Other races are not balanced and that is the reason Caldari appear to be overpowered at the moment. Lol, all races except the caldari are balanced - thats what your trying to say right? Roden Shipyards? MWD cap penalty?
CB Apollo	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:48:00 - [12] Edited by: CB Apollo on 02/08/2006 08:48:10 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 02/08/2006 08:42:06 Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Crow is balanced and I prefer Raptor over Crow. If you nerf Crow, you will need to nerf many other Interceptors. Jenny, do you ever agree that something Caldari might be a tad overpowered? Ive never seen that... Caldari are not overpowered. They are balanced. They used to be overpowered though. Other races are not balanced and that is the reason Caldari appear to be overpowered at the moment. What a load of woffle, so basically your saying Caldari WERE overpowered, now they are NOT, BUT its all the others that are no good.... So your basically saying that Caldari are still on top = Caldari are still overpowered. Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Caldari are not overpowered. They are balanced. They used to be overpowered though. Other races are not balanced and that is the reason Caldari appear to be overpowered at the moment. Ive decided Im not going to whine about game balance anymore though. Its pointless. Ill take the time and train for whatever ship I think is the best for what I want to do instead. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Hakuin The Blackwater Brigade HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:50:00 - [14] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Crow is balanced with 2 mid and after you give at Ares, Claw and Crusader 3 mid slots Fixed ________ In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few. - In Rust We Trust -
CB Apollo	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:51:00 - [15] Ive used the setup at the very top, and vs ANY other ceptor 1vs1 in a belt etc, it wins every time. All I do is click ORBIT@14km and the F1 to F6 and go watch invader zim till I will. Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques
CB Apollo	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:53:00 - [16] Edited by: CB Apollo on 02/08/2006 08:54:30 Originally by: Hakuin Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Crow is balanced with 2 mid and after you give at Ares, Claw and Crusader 3 mid slots Fixed I dont get this? Its not well written? Are you for or against Crow Nerf? If your saying that to fix it we need to give Ares, Claw and Crusader 3 mid slots, then I suppose thats one way. OR you can boost small wep tracking/range abit? Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques
CB Apollo	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:55:00 - [17] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Caldari are not overpowered. They are balanced. They used to be overpowered though. Other races are not balanced and that is the reason Caldari appear to be overpowered at the moment. Ive decided Im not going to whine about game balance anymore though. Its pointless. Ill take the time and train for whatever ship I think is the best for what I want to do instead. Good good, dont let the forum door hit you on the way out. :) Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques
Hamatitio Caldari Fate. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:58:00 - [18] Orbitting at 13km will get you killed very quickly. Anyone can manually get within 10km to web you at which point, you are SOL. Thats why most people sit at 19km with light missiles, which you lose against a claw setup with 280's... so it really is balanced, every setup has a counter... :) --- Originally by: Wrangler ...why do you people always have to verbally assault each other over things that doesn't matter anyway?
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:00:00 - [19] Originally by: CB Apollo Edited by: CB Apollo on 02/08/2006 08:54:30 Originally by: Hakuin Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Crow is balanced with 2 mid and after you give at Ares, Claw and Crusader 3 mid slots Fixed I dont get this? Its not well written? Are you for or against Crow Nerf? If your saying that to fix it we need to give Ares, Claw and Crusader 3 mid slots, then I suppose thats one way. OR you can boost small wep tracking/range abit? Claw and Crusader are very good interceptors. They really dont need a boost. IMHO, they are quite balanced. Like Raptor, Ares could use a little love. They could use a bit more grid, I guess. ---------------- Patience is a quality that most people seem to lack.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:03:00 - [20] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 02/08/2006 09:03:08 Originally by: CB Apollo Good good, dont let the forum door hit you on the way out. :) I'll still be here... checking out what the latest win buttons are. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

CB Apollo	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:11:00 - [21] Originally by: Hamatitio Orbitting at 13km will get you killed very quickly. Anyone can manually get within 10km to web you at which point, you are SOL. Thats why most people sit at 19km with light missiles, which you lose against a claw setup with 280's... so it really is balanced, every setup has a counter... :) A few nav skills later and your speed is URBER, therefore how is anyone suppose to close the gap? Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques
CB Apollo	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:12:00 - [22] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 02/08/2006 09:03:08 Originally by: CB Apollo Good good, dont let the forum door hit you on the way out. :) I'll still be here... checking out what the latest win buttons are. Well ceptor wise it still the crow. Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:14:00 - [23] Originally by: CB Apollo Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 02/08/2006 09:03:08 Originally by: CB Apollo Good good, dont let the forum door hit you on the way out. :) I'll still be here... checking out what the latest win buttons are. Well ceptor wise it still the crow. If you feel that way, you should train for it. :) Doesnt take very long to get caldari frig to V and then get some light missiles. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Sheraad	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:17:00 - [24] Originally by: CB Apollo Originally by: Hamatitio Orbitting at 13km will get you killed very quickly. Anyone can manually get within 10km to web you at which point, you are SOL. Thats why most people sit at 19km with light missiles, which you lose against a claw setup with 280's... so it really is balanced, every setup has a counter... :) A few nav skills later and your speed is URBER, therefore how is anyone suppose to close the gap? Well, the speed itself isn't better than the same skills in a crusader with the same MWD... unfortunately that's where range/tracking comes in.
Semkhet The Priory	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:24:00 - [25] Crow is overpowered ? I can mention any ship ingame in a situation where it can be overpowered if I appositely choose an environment which induces such unbalance Why don't you specify also the negative aspects of crows set up in that way ? First, when fitting a Gistii-A + disruptor + the related cap mods to get the whole thing able to be on indefinitely, you don't have enough PG to fit T2 standard launchers or shield-related mods. Second, since you can't use a web, you must have the MWD on at all times in order to pursue your target, what means that it can easely jump out at a gate, and that you have a cruiser sig at all times. Third, you don't mix rockets & Gistii-A on a ship which can achieve combat range of 50 Km with standard launchers. Remaining within a 15 Km max orbit at those speeds doesen't give enough buffer and you may easely fall into web range if your target knows how to navigate. Half a second lag and you miss your mark by X Km's And I could go on and on... The basic point is that to use a crow in that configuration, the ship ends costing around 120 mil including the MWD and a faction disruptor. Then you need at least a set of LG snakes. So the day that you have the balls to throw half a billion isk between a paper ship and your pod which are fundamentally always engaged in frontline combat, you can come back and whine that it's overpowered.
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:25:00 - [26] Crow > other ceptors From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Hakuin The Blackwater Brigade HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:31:00 - [27] Originally by: CB Apollo I dont get this? Its not well written? Are you for or against Crow Nerf? If your saying that to fix it we need to give Ares, Claw and Crusader 3 mid slots, then I suppose thats one way. OR you can boost small wep tracking/range abit? Basically an inty with missile/rockets AND 3 mid is UBER while an inty with turrets AND 2 mid is BAD. Originally by: Hamatitio Orbitting at 13km will get you killed very quickly. Anyone can manually get within 10km to web you at which point, you are SOL. Thats why most people sit at 19km with light missiles, which you lose against a claw setup with 280's... so it really is balanced, every setup has a counter... :) Nope. Claw cant both scrambl/web. Every setup has a counter? Yes, but missiles crow can kill any inty with the same setup, while claw/crusader fitted with long range weapon cant kill anything, because they warp out or they kill you if you dont have a web. Oh, and in a duel 1v1 without run away Crow stills better because it can fit useful modules like target painter/sensor booster etc, while claw/crusader are stucked with MWD+Web. ________ In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few. - In Rust We Trust -
CB Apollo	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:33:00 - [28] Originally by: Semkhet First, when fitting a Gistii-A + disruptor + the related cap mods to get the whole thing able to be on indefinitely, you don't have enough PG to fit T2 standard launchers or shield-related mods. The above setup FITS and has PG to spare, AND it runs forever. Originally by: Semkhet Second, since you can't use a web, you must have the MWD on at all times in order to pursue your target, what means that it can easely jump out at a gate. Crusader is the same... Originally by: Semkhet And I could go on and on... The basic point is that to use a crow in that configuration, the ship ends costing around 120 mil including the MWD and a faction disruptor. Then you need at least a set of LG snakes. The disruptor is CHEAP as anything, and you can use t2 MWD and still outrun all other ceptors. Why would you need implants. Noone has said about them yet. So leave it. Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques
Hakuin The Blackwater Brigade HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:35:00 - [29] Originally by: Semkhet Edited by: Semkhet on 02/08/2006 09:29:35 Crow is overpowered ? I can mention any ship ingame in a situation where it can be overpowered if I appositely choose an environment which induces such unbalance Why don't you specify also the negative aspects of crows set up in that way ? First, when fitting a Gistii-A + disruptor + the related cap mods to get the whole thing able to be on indefinitely, you don't have enough PG to fit T2 standard launchers or shield-related mods. Second, since you can't use a web, you must have the MWD on at all times in order to pursue your target, what means that it can easely jump out at a gate, and that you have a cruiser sig at all times. Third, you don't mix rockets & Gistii-A on a ship which can achieve combat range of 50 Km with standard launchers. Remaining within a 15 Km max orbit at those speeds doesen't give enough buffer and you may easely fall into web range if your target knows how to navigate. Half a second lag and you miss your mark by X Km's And I could go on and on... The basic point is that to use a crow in that configuration, the ship ends costing around 120 mil including the MWD and a faction disruptor. Then you need at least a set of LG snakes. So the day that you have the balls to throw half a billion isk between a paper ship and your pod which are fundamentally always engaged in frontline combat, you can come back and whine that it's overpowered, specially for wallets... lol at this post. ________ In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few. - In Rust We Trust -
Masempa	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:41:00 - [30] Originally by: Semkhet ... Your post is overpowered. WTF did implants come from? I don't think the crow should be nerfed, just 1 or 2 new methods for inerceptors to combat it. Hmmm, taranis with sensor damps anyone?



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