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Hamatitio Caldari Fate. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:45:00 - [31] I'll explain how to counter if I must. 1) You orbit at 13km 2) Interceptor mwd's the opposite direction form where you are, turns and approaches you. 3) You, not having enough nanos fitted, are unable to get back into 13km range, because as the other interceptor was moving the other way, your ship approached. 4) You are now webbed, with a taranis and some mean guns shooting you. Thats the rocket way of countering it, or assuming you are using light missiles: 1) Claw is faster, so claw hits approach. 2)You, clicking orbit, will go in a straight line away from the claw to get to the range you predetermined. 3) Claw then has no tracking issues, as you are moving in a striaght line, since you cannot get away, you die a slow aggonizing death. 4) Your light missiles hit for < 1 damage each due to the speed the claw is travelling. So there is some theory-online for you, although I have done both of these so my theories have worked. --- Originally by: Wrangler ...why do you people always have to verbally assault each other over things that doesn't matter anyway?
Semkhet The Priory	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:46:00 - [32] Originally by: CB Apollo The above setup FITS and has PG to spare, AND it runs forever. The disruptor is CHEAP as anything, and you can use t2 MWD and still outrun all other ceptors. Why would you need implants. Noone has said about them yet. So leave it. You don't use rockets with Gistii's. To easy to fall within web and nos range. You need a faction disruptor because it's the only way to scram battleships without falling into hvy nos range. You need the snakes in order to fly fast enough to nullify missiles and drones. It's not the peak speed you achieve in straight line which counts, but your orbiting speed. But hey, don't take my word as granted. I will gladly show you how fast your rocket crow can go poof.
Hamatitio Caldari Fate. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:47:00 - [33] Although your setups will beat a lot of the noob interceptor pilots. Which eve is full of. --- Originally by: Wrangler ...why do you people always have to verbally assault each other over things that doesn't matter anyway?
CB Apollo	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:49:00 - [34] In a perfect world this is what I would change: +1 medium slot for crusader but the 7.5% tracking bonus to 5% Malediction missile bonus changed to 5% turret range and 2PG more +1 medium slot for Ares 5PG more for Ranis Claw 7.5% tracking bonus changed to 10%, +1 ,medium slot Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:53:00 - [35] POP Alliance: RAZOR Alliance Corp: Cutting Edge Incorporated Destroyed: Crow System: FD-MLJ Security: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: madaluap (laid the final blow) Security: -0.2 Alliance: None Corp: Mercenary Forces Ship: Ares Weapon: 125mm Railgun II Destroyed items: Sabretooth Light Missile, Qty: 500 (Cargo) J5 Prototype Warp Inhibitor I Standard Missile Launcher II Power Diagnostic System II Thorium Charge S, Qty: 393 (Cargo) 1MN MicroWarpdrive II 75mm 'Scout' I Accelerator Cannon Flameburst Light Missile, Qty: 287 (Cargo) Bloodclaw Light Missile, Qty: 44 POP Alliance: The UnAssociated Corp: Disciples Of The Night Destroyed: Crow System: X-BV98 Security: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: madaluap (laid the final blow) Security: -0.2 Alliance: None Corp: Mercenary Forces Ship: Ares Weapon: Flameburst Precision Light Missile Destroyed items: OE-5200 Rocket Launcher OE-5200 Rocket Launcher Damage Control I Foxfire Rocket, Qty: 30 (Cargo) Thorn Rocket, Qty: 500 (Cargo) Iridium Charge S, Qty: 478 (Cargo) Small Armor Repairer I Thorn Rocket, Qty: 13 POP Alliance: The UnAssociated Corp: Disciples Of The Night Destroyed: Crow System: Orvolle Security: 0.7 Involved parties: Name: madaluap (laid the final blow) Security: -0.1 Alliance: None Corp: Mercenary Forces Ship: Ares Weapon: Flameburst Precision Light Missile Destroyed items: Rocket Launcher II Rocket Launcher II Rocket Launcher II Ballistic Control System I Patterned Stasis Web I Your point being? Ares is overpowered? No! pilots that use their brain are overpowered screw your 200mm plate+damagecontrol... _________________________________________________
Pattern Clarc Dark Destiny Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:58:00 - [36] Originally by: madaluap POP Alliance: RAZOR Alliance Corp: Cutting Edge Incorporated Destroyed: Crow System: FD-MLJ Security: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: madaluap (laid the final blow) Security: -0.2 Alliance: None Corp: Mercenary Forces Ship: Ares Weapon: 125mm Railgun II Destroyed items: Sabretooth Light Missile, Qty: 500 (Cargo) J5 Prototype Warp Inhibitor I Standard Missile Launcher II Power Diagnostic System II Thorium Charge S, Qty: 393 (Cargo) 1MN MicroWarpdrive II 75mm 'Scout' I Accelerator Cannon Flameburst Light Missile, Qty: 287 (Cargo) Bloodclaw Light Missile, Qty: 44 POP Alliance: The UnAssociated Corp: Disciples Of The Night Destroyed: Crow System: X-BV98 Security: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: madaluap (laid the final blow) Security: -0.2 Alliance: None Corp: Mercenary Forces Ship: Ares Weapon: Flameburst Precision Light Missile Destroyed items: OE-5200 Rocket Launcher OE-5200 Rocket Launcher Damage Control I Foxfire Rocket, Qty: 30 (Cargo) Thorn Rocket, Qty: 500 (Cargo) Iridium Charge S, Qty: 478 (Cargo) Small Armor Repairer I Thorn Rocket, Qty: 13 POP Alliance: The UnAssociated Corp: Disciples Of The Night Destroyed: Crow System: Orvolle Security: 0.7 Involved parties: Name: madaluap (laid the final blow) Security: -0.1 Alliance: None Corp: Mercenary Forces Ship: Ares Weapon: Flameburst Precision Light Missile Destroyed items: Rocket Launcher II Rocket Launcher II Rocket Launcher II Ballistic Control System I Patterned Stasis Web I Your point being? Ares is overpowered? No! pilots that use their brain are overpowered screw your 200mm plate+damagecontrol... Thanks for the hint... Roden Shipyards? MWD cap penalty?
Hakuin The Blackwater Brigade HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:02:00 - [37] Originally by: Hamatitio I'll explain how to counter if I must. 1) You orbit at 13km 2) Interceptor mwd's the opposite direction form where you are, turns and approaches you. 3) You, not having enough nanos fitted, are unable to get back into 13km range, because as the other interceptor was moving the other way, your ship approached. 4) You are now webbed, with a taranis and some mean guns shooting you. Thats the rocket way of countering it, or assuming you are using light missiles: 1) Claw is faster, so claw hits approach. 2)You, clicking orbit, will go in a straight line away from the claw to get to the range you predetermined. 3) Claw then has no tracking issues, as you are moving in a striaght line, since you cannot get away, you die a slow aggonizing death. 4) Your light missiles hit for < 1 damage each due to the speed the claw is travelling. So there is some theory-online for you, although I have done both of these so my theories have worked. Taranis? 1)Crow with rocket MWD II Web Scrambler vs any other inty Web them back and kill them. 2)Crow with missile MWD II Web Scrambler vs claw with arties/beamsader without web Web them, orbit at 500m and kill them. ________ In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few. - In Rust We Trust -
Hakuin The Blackwater Brigade HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:10:00 - [38] Originally by: madaluap Name: madaluap (laid the final blow) Security: -0.2 Alliance: None Corp: Mercenary Forces Ship: Ares Weapon: Flameburst Precision Light Missile Name: madaluap (laid the final blow) Security: -0.1 Alliance: None Corp: Mercenary Forces Ship: Ares Weapon: Flameburst Precision Light Missile ________ In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few. - In Rust We Trust -
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:12:00 - [39] Originally by: CB Apollo Lets do a comparison: Blaster-Ranis vs crow = crow (ranis cant get in range) Rail-Ranis vs crow = crow (ranis cant track crow) Beam-Crusader vs crow = crow (crusader cant track crow) Pulse-Crusader vs crow = crow (crusader cant get in range for long enough) Claw-AC vs crow = crow (claw cant get in range for long enough) Claw-ARTY vs crow = Crow (Claw cant track crow) Any others? if you only use "approach" and "orbit @ " as commands to fly your interceptor, then you're completly right with your assumption .. ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
CB Cyrix GeoTech	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:15:00 - [40] Edited by: CB Cyrix on 02/08/2006 10:15:32 Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte Originally by: CB Apollo Lets do a comparison: Blaster-Ranis vs crow = crow (ranis cant get in range) Rail-Ranis vs crow = crow (ranis cant track crow) Beam-Crusader vs crow = crow (crusader cant track crow) Pulse-Crusader vs crow = crow (crusader cant get in range for long enough) Claw-AC vs crow = crow (claw cant get in range for long enough) Claw-ARTY vs crow = Crow (Claw cant track crow) Any others? if you only use "approach" and "orbit @ " as commands to fly your interceptor, then you're completly right with your assumption .. If your gonna say that then atleast explain yourself. PS. YAY it finally uses this as my default posting char, wooooot, only took 2 years to kick in.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:20:00 - [41] Originally by: Hakuin Originally by: madaluap Name: madaluap (laid the final blow) Security: -0.2 Alliance: None Corp: Mercenary Forces Ship: Ares Weapon: Flameburst Precision Light Missile Name: madaluap (laid the final blow) Security: -0.1 Alliance: None Corp: Mercenary Forces Ship: Ares Weapon: Flameburst Precision Light Missile Go roll somewhere else, i dont give a **** about public opinion nor flavour of months... _________________________________________________
Sadist SWIFTS	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:21:00 - [42] Originally by: CB Apollo Lets do a comparison: Blaster-Ranis vs crow = crow (ranis cant get in range) Rail-Ranis vs crow = crow (ranis cant track crow) Beam-Crusader vs crow = crow (crusader cant track crow) Pulse-Crusader vs crow = crow (crusader cant get in range for long enough) Claw-AC vs crow = crow (claw cant get in range for long enough) Claw-ARTY vs crow = Crow (Claw cant track crow) Any others? 1. WRONG. Either crow gets careless and gets webbed, or ranis just shakes it off the orbit and gets out of scram range = draw. 2. WRONG. 75mm's can track crow pretty well with the uber tracking ranis gets now, + see above Thing is, to KILL those interceptors, the crow must web them as well, which is when almost any interceptor will outdamage it easily. As a veteran interceptor pilot i've never seen a comparison so stupid. òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
Hakuin The Blackwater Brigade HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:22:00 - [43] Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Hakuin Originally by: madaluap Name: madaluap (laid the final blow) Security: -0.2 Alliance: None Corp: Mercenary Forces Ship: Ares Weapon: Flameburst Precision Light Missile Name: madaluap (laid the final blow) Security: -0.1 Alliance: None Corp: Mercenary Forces Ship: Ares Weapon: Flameburst Precision Light Missile Go roll somewhere else, i dont give a **** about public opinion nor flavour of months... So don't post your (lame) killmails here. ________ In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few. - In Rust We Trust -
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:24:00 - [44] Originally by: Hakuin Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Hakuin Originally by: madaluap Name: madaluap (laid the final blow) Security: -0.2 Alliance: None Corp: Mercenary Forces Ship: Ares Weapon: Flameburst Precision Light Missile Name: madaluap (laid the final blow) Security: -0.1 Alliance: None Corp: Mercenary Forces Ship: Ares Weapon: Flameburst Precision Light Missile Go roll somewhere else, i dont give a **** about public opinion nor flavour of months... So don't post your (lame) killmails here. Well im getting quite sick of people that keep on whining about the same bloody ships all over again and again and again..While you could just aswell look for the problem @ yourself... And yes normally i dont post em, but the tech2 shuttle pwning the omfguberinty with the omfg nerfed missiles gives thinking material eh? _________________________________________________
ApollyN VentureCorp CORE.	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:25:00 - [45] Interceptor fights tend to be decided pretty fast,often in the first second, after that its just a case of watching the shields/armour/hull vanish. Problem I have with crow is that it can have a setup that works well versus any other interceptor, sometimes almost unwinnably well, whilst most other interceptors will not have a generalised fit. Most inties use a setup for general combat and a setup for trying to take on crows. Its not impossible to beat them but I often find you need to setup to fight them. Ive used a stilletto with a racial in the mid with some success but Im not a big fan of using ECM in its current stat as it seems a bit unfair. With taranis its all about getting close enough when the web goes on (and your passing each other at 6-10km/s so its not easy to web and stay close and if your just outside fo the blaster range it gets tricky. Same for the 2 slot ceptors. Im not sure crow should be nerfed as I dont see how it can be without really hurting it, its almost there, you can beat em, but its just not quite balanced. Maybe a small tweak to dmg output or something?
Caol Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:27:00 - [46] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 02/08/2006 08:42:06 Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Crow is balanced and I prefer Raptor over Crow. If you nerf Crow, you will need to nerf many other Interceptors. Jenny, do you ever agree that something Caldari might be a tad overpowered? Ive never seen that... Caldari are not overpowered. They are balanced. They used to be overpowered though. Other races are not balanced and that is the reason Caldari appear to be overpowered at the moment. Im really sorry, i don't really fly interceptors and i don't really post in Ships and Modules and i'm not trying to de-rail this thread but ... damnit ... this made choke with laughter on my cheese and pickle sannie...i'm off to get some fresh air...
Deja Thoris Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:29:00 - [47] You cant balance a ship around a named uber module that costs 5x the price of the ship you fit it to. I win this thread.
Cl0nED	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:31:00 - [48] The only thing I dont like about Caldari is since they are good missile ships and as is right now, missiles are very powerfull since you can pick what your trying to hit. A gun boat preety much has to pick his range, train for it, then get in that range to be effective, can easily be tackled, people can use tracking disrupters (which might I add: are VERY effective if properly used) and some of em use up cap. Missiles... have no cap problems, deal in only 3 elements when it comes to the target: Resistances (which are easy to switch) Sig resolution which can be boosted with target painters or using lighter missles and Speed which can be solved if ya get in web range for even the fastest of inties. Your opponent cant do much other then try to minimize the damage and tank it. They are fairly balanced, just not at the frigate size.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:32:00 - [49] Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 02/08/2006 10:34:16 Originally by: CB Cyrix Edited by: CB Cyrix on 02/08/2006 10:15:32 Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte Originally by: CB Apollo Lets do a comparison: Blaster-Ranis vs crow = crow (ranis cant get in range) Rail-Ranis vs crow = crow (ranis cant track crow) Beam-Crusader vs crow = crow (crusader cant track crow) Pulse-Crusader vs crow = crow (crusader cant get in range for long enough) Claw-AC vs crow = crow (claw cant get in range for long enough) Claw-ARTY vs crow = Crow (Claw cant track crow) Any others? if you only use "approach" and "orbit @ " as commands to fly your interceptor, then you're completly right with your assumption .. If your gonna say that then atleast explain yourself. PS. YAY it finally uses this as my default posting char, wooooot, only took 2 years to kick in. as Hamatitio allready stated ... you need to "play" the other pilot - you need to fool him. he is orbiting you close out of webrange? fly away .. and when he is stupid enough to follow you - turn around and approach him. he is orbiting you close to his scram-range and you can't kill him because you're shortrange? approach him ... while he flies away from you - turn around and hope he overshoots enough for you to get out of his scramrange. but if you only engage another interceptor with the commands "orbit" and "approach" without the knowledge what you're doing you gonna die. if you're in a blasterranis and want to engage a longrange ceptor and you approach without a plan - you will loose your ship. P.S. @cyrix ... why didn't you ask CB Apollo the same question?? his comparison lacks also lots of explanations ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
DeadDuck Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:43:00 - [50] I fly Crusaders, and like about 70% or more of the intys out there are crows, the fit that I use is prepared to deal with them ... Dont know if the crows are uber or not,maybe they are, but I know that is extremelly hard to beat a ship specially fitted to fight a specific kind of ship
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:45:00 - [51] The one thing that irks me a bit about crows is that unlike other inties their own speed doesn't hinder their ability to damage their target. With other inties that need to take tracking into consideration their own speed can be as much of a penatly as the targets speed. This can be overcome with some thought but it's never an issue crow pilots ever have to deal with. WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:45:00 - [52] Originally by: CB Apollo Originally by: Hakuin Originally by: Semkhet Edited by: Semkhet on 02/08/2006 09:29:35 lol at this post. Tell me about it, GO BACK TO WOW NOOB. behave please From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Emsigma Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:48:00 - [53] Originally by: CB Apollo Blaster-Ranis vs crow = crow (ranis cant get in range) Pulse-Crusader vs crow = crow (crusader cant get in range for long enough) Claw-AC vs crow = crow (claw cant get in range for long enough) Is it the crow's fault that you can't get into range? :) Start to pilot your ceptors and you will have little problems getting in range if you both use the same type of mwd. In the rare cases where you can't get into range you can 100% guaranteed get out of scram range and warp away.
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:50:00 - [54] Edited by: Sarmaul on 02/08/2006 10:53:42 Give the crow a bloody huge mass and maybe nerf its base speed like the rest of Caldari missile ships have to keep them balanced. See Jenny, this is what happens when you lower the mass of Caldari missile ships :P And I thought we were past the "nerf caldari/amarr/minmatar/gallente". Just because certain ships need to be brought back in line doesn't mean you want to nerf the entire race TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
CB Apollo	Posted - 2006.08.02 11:02:00 - [55] Originally by: Sarmaul Edited by: Sarmaul on 02/08/2006 10:53:42 Give the crow a bloody huge mass and maybe nerf its base speed like the rest of Caldari missile ships have to keep them balanced. See Jenny, this is what happens when you lower the mass of Caldari missile ships :P And I thought we were past the "nerf caldari/amarr/minmatar/gallente". Just because certain ships need to be brought back in line doesn't mean you want to nerf the entire race The OP didnt say NERF CALDARI, it said nerf the crow or booth the others. Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.02 11:06:00 - [56] Originally by: CB Apollo The OP didnt say NERF CALDARI, it said nerf the crow or booth the others. I didn't say it was the OP. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
DeadDuck Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.02 11:13:00 - [57] Originally by: CB Apollo The OP didnt say NERF CALDARI, it said nerf the crow or booth the others. The only crows that I know that need to be nerfed are the Celtic Anarchy ones
RedClaws Amarr Dragon's Rage	Posted - 2006.08.02 11:18:00 - [58] What about nerf gistii? We all know its a bit "too" good
Admiral IceBlock Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.02 11:20:00 - [59] Originally by: Hakuin Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Crow is balanced and I prefer Raptor over Crow. If you nerf Crow, you will need to nerf many other Interceptors I'm homosexual and I like to get dirty with boys. Tho recently I have tried under aged boys, as they seem to work better for my tight needs. I think you got some issues man I think you need some counciling.
steveid Penetrate	Posted - 2006.08.02 12:01:00 - [60] Originally by: Deja Thoris You cant balance a ship around a named uber module that costs 5x the price of the ship you fit it to. I win this thread. QFT. Perhaps what we really need is faction small reps ... that way you'd laugh at the measly 100 dps a crow puts out. I'm not serious btw, but he has a point. Besides its not like were talking about t2 bs's here, its ceptors. The skill time needed to get good at a crow isn't THAT much really. Crow is the best ceptor / ceptor fighter. Other races have better ships for other things.

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