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Hakuin The Blackwater Brigade HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2006.08.02 12:03:00 - [61] Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Originally by: Hakuin Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Crow is balanced and I prefer Raptor over Crow. If you nerf Crow, you will need to nerf many other Interceptors I'm homosexual and I like to get dirty with boys. Tho recently I have tried under aged boys, as they seem to work better for my tight needs. I think you got some issues man I think you need some counciling. No comment. ________ In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few. - In Rust We Trust -
CB Apollo	Posted - 2006.08.02 12:15:00 - [62] Originally by: steveid Originally by: Deja Thoris You cant balance a ship around a named uber module that costs 5x the price of the ship you fit it to. I win this thread. QFT. Perhaps what we really need is faction small reps ... that way you'd laugh at the measly 100 dps a crow puts out. I'm not serious btw, but he has a point. Besides its not like were talking about t2 bs's here, its ceptors. The skill time needed to get good at a crow isn't THAT much really. Crow is the best ceptor / ceptor fighter. Other races have better ships for other things. So other races ceptors should just selfdestruct if they see a crow? Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques
Fogy Caldari Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.08.02 12:36:00 - [63] Ok.. my chois was caldari when i started playing this game.. i didnt know **t about it.. other than what i picked up from playing during the last 2 weeks of the BETA. i spotted a raven back then and followed it in my bantam for several jumps caus i thought it looked so freeken awsome! so.. im caldari by race. i can fly minmatar, galente and caldari intys and AF¦s all out T2 my personal favourite is the claw, gimped by only having 2 middslots, i still love them. taranis is nice, even the ares. but crows i think suck.. theyr popp like wett paperbaggs, and theyr dps isnt that grate compared to other ceptors. theyr only bennefit is beeing easy to use at long range.. but a close range ceptor with abit of brains can easily outmanuver you and gett away Iw killd and lost all the ceptors i can fly, with every one of them.. and IMHO there isnt any ceptor beeing overpowerd compared to any other one.. its all up the the pilots OOG skills at using them. for the missile whinage.. ok missiles "always hitts" BUT: 1 with enough speed even precition cruise will do 0.1 dmg on you... and they got a fix maximum dmg. on turrets on the other hand.. you can gett everything from 0.1 - **t high wrecking hitts.. nerf or boost any way you like.. but then give missiles a chanse to gett wreking hitts aswell. Ohh and, i got about 3mill in missile skills, but 8mill in gunnery! Ravens are for carebears.. real men fly gun shipps Cheers! Fogy "From my rotting boddy flowers shall grow and I am in them, and that is eternity" New Direction New Area New Victims
CB Apollo	Posted - 2006.08.02 12:52:00 - [64] Originally by: Fogy Ok.. my chois was caldari when i started playing this game.. i didnt know **t about it.. other than what i picked up from playing during the last 2 weeks of the BETA. i spotted a raven back then and followed it in my bantam for several jumps caus i thought it looked so freeken awsome! so.. im caldari by race. i can fly minmatar, galente and caldari intys and AF¦s all out T2 my personal favourite is the claw, gimped by only having 2 middslots, i still love them. taranis is nice, even the ares. but crows i think suck.. theyr popp like wett paperbaggs, and theyr dps isnt that grate compared to other ceptors. theyr only bennefit is beeing easy to use at long range.. but a close range ceptor with abit of brains can easily outmanuver you and gett away Iw killd and lost all the ceptors i can fly, with every one of them.. and IMHO there isnt any ceptor beeing overpowerd compared to any other one.. its all up the the pilots OOG skills at using them. for the missile whinage.. ok missiles "always hitts" BUT: 1 with enough speed even precition cruise will do 0.1 dmg on you... and they got a fix maximum dmg. on turrets on the other hand.. you can gett everything from 0.1 - **t high wrecking hitts.. nerf or boost any way you like.. but then give missiles a chanse to gett wreking hitts aswell. Ohh and, i got about 3mill in missile skills, but 8mill in gunnery! Ravens are for carebears.. real men fly gun shipps Cheers! Fogy No mention of amarr ceptors? Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques
Ast3r0iD Gallente Maranwethial Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.08.02 12:56:00 - [65] Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Originally by: Hakuin Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Crow is balanced and I prefer Raptor over Crow. If you nerf Crow, you will need to nerf many other Interceptors I'm homosexual and I like to get dirty with boys. Tho recently I have tried under aged boys, as they seem to work better for my tight needs. I think you got some issues man I think you need some counciling. I prefer little girls. You can flip them over and pretend they are little boys
Oortog	Posted - 2006.08.02 13:27:00 - [66] I'll weigh in on this one. I fly 3 races of Ceptors. Amarr, Caldari and Gallente. I personaly love the ceptor. I believe it to be the most fun class of ships in the game, but I also know thier purpose and thier niche. First and formost, a Ceptor is to tackle other ships. Big, small, medium, it doesn't matter, your in a gang, you see a target your job is to stop it from moving and your friends can blow it up. As a nice bonus, your scrambler will get you on a killmail. Thats all that matters. Crow is a NICE interceptor, its not overpowered, other ceptors have other nice abilities. Know your job. Know what your going to need to do. Lets assume that we can all afford either stock mods or a few named mods. No faction stuff. If your flying a ceptor in a gang or a fleet fight and you have faction mods, your going to lose a PILE of cash. Nothing like a well placed lucky snipe from a tempest to cost you 200+ mill. Been there, done that. Ceptors are DISPOSABLE. I started with Amarr. Crusader if your solo, Malediction if your job is to tackle. There were some other nice little bonusues with the Malediction. Its got a VERY low sig radius.. possibly the lowest in the game. When its in warp it travels a STAGGERING 14 AU per tick. When you kick up the MWD it just blows EVERYTHING out of the water. Its got descent cap, unlike the CROW that can only make a 80-90 AU jump before it has to stop. The Malediction can just be anywhere its needed... INSTANTLY. Its not a pwnmobile. It tackles, it gets to the fight fast.. VERY fast. And its cheap.. I've seen them anywhere from 7-12 mill. Makes a hell of a taxi too. The Malediction lacks punch, and its paper thin. But if your job is to stop a ship from moving your friends will love you. Put a 2 point scramb on it, get close, get on the killmail. Rep your armor then post the killmail. KNOW YOUR JOB. Lets look at the crow... 30+ KM targeting range.. check. No other ceptor can do this. Missile slots = no need to track check DPS well.. 2 ways you can go, rockets or lights. If you go rockets you shoudl have descent missile skills to hit at LEAST 13 K out. Thats pretty good for rockets! But you'll want to stay out of web range. And puting a TP on that rig isn't goning to help at all when your using rockets.. so that mid slot is wasted... there is NO WAY you want to get within web range.. and if you do, yeah a web would help you get out.. but will it be in enough time? Don't risk it. With this setup you can prolly get up to about 50-60 DPS using named or t2 launchers. Lights! Ok, now we have a different situation all together. 20 K disruptor, and with descent skills like me, you can hit WELL over 35K out. The bad news.. your DPS is so pathetic a Ibis could tank it. What can it do? Its a safe tackler. 16-17 K out.. I have a point on you.. if you have a stab, your going to get away with shield damage (woo). If your a cruiser yrou going to be able to WAY out-tank me and my cap isn't going to keep my MWD and my scramb on forever.. the crow has a cap like an infants bladder. Wanna kill a rocket crow in a Taranis, Aries, Crusader or Claw? Its easy... Add a tracking comp. poof. He'll be shaking his fist at you from his pod-window. And if you DO happen to have one of these nifty faction crows.. congrats! One day, your mountain dew will want out of your body.. and you'll be dumb enough to go on autopilot and take a whiz (we've all done it) . Thats when that sniper-tempest is going to find you. And after, when your mining Jaspet to make up the 200+ mill you lost, I'll fly by in my crow, and pay your osprey a visit :) The problem is with you guys who want to use the ceptor as a 1 man pwnmachine. Its not meant for that (Unless your pickin on other ceptor pilots mining jaspet to pay for thier faction mods).
St'oto Wings of Turul Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.02 13:43:00 - [67] Originally by: CB Apollo Edited by: CB Apollo on 02/08/2006 08:31:10 Ive been looking at the crow, I need a setup that can orbit at 13km (ish) and have a 20km scram + MWD running forever. In order to get that running forever on a crow you need 3 relays or one relay and a small battery II. I also want max speed and damage I can get with the last 2 low slots and that one medium. So I ended up with this: 3x Rocket Launcher II 1x Gistii MWD 1x Fleeting Warp Scram (20km) 1x Small Cap Battery II 1x Relay 1x Ballistic COntrol Syst II 1x Local Nanofiber Structure I Max speed = 5,432 m/s DPS = 86.287 with only tech 1 missiles Range = 15.18 km (5062.5m/sec X 3 seconds) Runs forever I dont see alot tracking this, therefore its rather URBER. Is there any other ceptor that can meet these stats AND still hit the target? If this went againt other ceptors they would loose every time I think. This seriously needs a nerf!!!111oneoneone Did you meet with AphroD 's crow yesterday?:D (btw i lost a taranis against him, but it was close.)
Fogy Caldari Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.08.02 13:56:00 - [68] Originally by: CB Apollo Originally by: Fogy blablabla No mention of amarr ceptors? I¦w never flown one.. but killd bouth and been killd by the crusader a coupple of times flown by a SE guy i no longer remember the name off.. good pilote nevertheless. as i see it, the crusader has a insane dmg potential and sick speed, but is as the claw abit gimped due to having only 2 midds... Cheers! Fogy "From my rotting boddy flowers shall grow and I am in them, and that is eternity" New Direction New Area New Victims
Soros	Posted - 2006.08.02 14:11:00 - [69] Originally by: Fogy Originally by: CB Apollo Originally by: Fogy blablabla No mention of amarr ceptors? I¦w never flown one.. but killd bouth and been killd by the crusader a coupple of times flown by a SE guy i no longer remember the name off.. good pilote nevertheless. as i see it, the crusader has a insane dmg potential and sick speed, but is as the claw abit gimped due to having only 2 midds... Cheers! Fogy A good SA sader pilot .. infact hes very good goes by the name of 'Random' <p>
Octavios Caldari Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.02 14:20:00 - [70] Gistii MWD? yea if you have the 30-50mil to buy one than YES your crow will pwn all noobs out there. take that Gisii MWD out and put in a Tech II one and ur crow will get pwned by most ceptors, there is NO WAY you can stay outside of the 10km web range ANY ceptor doing approach on you with MWD, eventually u drop just under 10k and ur toast, with no tank and not enough dmg. Crow could not be better balanced, if anything you should NERF Gistii MWD.

Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:05:00 - [71] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 02/08/2006 18:06:50 Originally by: Sarmaul Edited by: Sarmaul on 02/08/2006 10:53:42 Give the crow a bloody huge mass and maybe nerf its base speed like the rest of Caldari missile ships have to keep them balanced. See Jenny, this is what happens when you lower the mass of Caldari missile ships :P And I thought we were past the "nerf caldari/amarr/minmatar/gallente". Just because certain ships need to be brought back in line doesn't mean you want to nerf the entire race Well, if you want to add more mass on the Crow, you might as well remove Crow as an Interceptor and reclass it as a Tier 3 assault frigate and give it more resistance. Crow is balanced. Crow is fine. OP's post is imbalanced. EDIT: Daily Caldari whine because everyone is bored at Tier 3 BS whinings. Wait until Tier 2 BC is announced. ---------------- Patience is a quality that most people seem to lack.
Azerrad	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:15:00 - [72] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Caldari are not overpowered. They are balanced. They used to be overpowered though. Other races are not balanced and that is the reason Caldari appear to be overpowered at the moment. Between brilliance like this and the Caldari being mid-slot specialists crap, has anyone else noticed how incredibly partisan Jenny has become over the last week? Maybe I just never picked up on it, but its getting almost comical.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:21:00 - [73] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 02/08/2006 18:21:50 Originally by: Azerrad Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Caldari are not overpowered. They are balanced. They used to be overpowered though. Other races are not balanced and that is the reason Caldari appear to be overpowered at the moment. Between brilliance like this and the Caldari being mid-slot specialists crap, has anyone else noticed how incredibly partisan Jenny has become over the last week? Maybe I just never picked up on it, but its getting almost comical. Your point is no better. I need MWD/AB, warp disruption and web becuase I am a turret user. Waaa waaa waaa, 3 slots and 4 slots are minimum for tanking and solo use. Why cant you get friends to help you tackle? At most, you only need web and AB. Rokh with 7 mid slots doesnt guarantee it can fit full guns on all high slots though. If I am partisan, I wouldnt be flying Gallente at the moment. ---------------- Patience is a quality that most people seem to lack.
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:24:00 - [74] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Crow is balanced. Crow is fine. OP's post is imbalanced. Yet as usual you don't provide a single reason why it is. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Azerrad	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:29:00 - [75] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Your point is no better. I need MWD/AB, warp disruption and web becuase I am a turret user. Waaa waaa waaa, 3 slots and 4 slots are minimum for tanking and solo use. Why cant you get friends to help you tackle? At most, you only need web and AB. Rokh with 7 mid slots doesnt guarantee it can fit full guns on all high slots though. If I am partisan, I wouldnt be flying Gallente at the moment. What point? Regarding midslots I've lobbied for the same number of midslots on the Rohk and the Maelstrom, regardless of what that number is since they are very very similar ships. However, my post didn't mention a single thing about mwd/web/scram, but I suppose its easier to setup a strawman than address the actual post.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:38:00 - [76] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 02/08/2006 18:37:55 Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Crow is balanced. Crow is fine. OP's post is imbalanced. Yet as usual you don't provide a single reason why it is. The answer is already at page 1 to 3. I dont think I have to repeat them any more. I think I better give this thread a rest before it becomes personal. If you believe Crow is imbalanced and it is too good, you can train it up. Takes about 10-12 days maximum. ---------------- Patience is a quality that most people seem to lack.
Deja Thoris Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:02:00 - [77] Originally by: CB Apollo Originally by: steveid Originally by: Deja Thoris You cant balance a ship around a named uber module that costs 5x the price of the ship you fit it to. I win this thread. QFT. Perhaps what we really need is faction small reps ... that way you'd laugh at the measly 100 dps a crow puts out. I'm not serious btw, but he has a point. Besides its not like were talking about t2 bs's here, its ceptors. The skill time needed to get good at a crow isn't THAT much really. Crow is the best ceptor / ceptor fighter. Other races have better ships for other things. So other races ceptors should just selfdestruct if they see a crow? It's the mwd thats the problem in your scenario, not the crow. If you still dont get it then drop EvE and attend classes that improve your comprehension.
Kyguard LFC 3rd Front Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:07:00 - [78] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire The answer is already at page 1 to 3. I dont think I have to repeat them any more. I think I better give this thread a rest before it becomes personal. If you believe Crow is imbalanced and it is too good, you can train it up. Takes about 10-12 days maximum. Agreed. Never post in balance threads again unless you have valid reasoning, you repeating crow is fine, balanced etc is just stupid. === God is on the side with the best arti
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:15:00 - [79] Originally by: Kyguard Originally by: Jenny Spitfire The answer is already at page 1 to 3. I dont think I have to repeat them any more. I think I better give this thread a rest before it becomes personal. If you believe Crow is imbalanced and it is too good, you can train it up. Takes about 10-12 days maximum. Agreed. Never post in balance threads again unless you have valid reasoning, you repeating crow is fine, balanced etc is just stupid. And your comment without reading from head to toe is much better. There you go, have a tic-tac. ---------------- Patience is a quality that most people seem to lack.
Buraken v2 Amarr Amarr Defence Initiative	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:31:00 - [80] Originally by: Hakuin Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Originally by: Hakuin Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Crow is balanced and I prefer Raptor over Crow. If you nerf Crow, you will need to nerf many other Interceptors I'm homosexual and I like to get dirty with boys. Tho recently I have tried under aged boys, as they seem to work better for my tight needs. I think you got some issues man I think you need some counciling. No comment. Agree with Admiral, get some therpay asap dude. Sad sad case. Quote: Mail from: Houvire Takaerne 2006.06.06 19:25 Our research has been fruity. If you're interested, I believe I have found what might be a banana in the corner of my office draw.

Khavi Vetali Team Americas	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:34:00 - [81] Originally by: CB Apollo Ive used the setup at the very top, and vs ANY other ceptor 1vs1 in a belt etc, it wins every time. All I do is click ORBIT@14km and the F1 to F6 and go watch invader zim till I will. Dunno, but I stopped reading here, when it became obvious that the OP doesn't have a clue. HONK HONK!!! I fly by ear! KA-THUD
Olea Avenger Gallente GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:57:00 - [82] Having flown and fought against crows, I can honestly say they are a very annoying low risk inty. They can stay outside of the effective gun range of many small guns, nos, and web range. The are for the most part best interceptor at tackling / fighting anything that is not a ceptor. Against ceptors they aren't so hot. Also, people *****ing that a crusader isn't good enough against them, try the malediction. They can work wonders at tacking down a crow. I will say light drones don't work as well against them as they do other ceptors cause crows can target and hit them for good damage as the drones keep turning off their mwd while chasing.
Feline Ferocity Caldari The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:38:00 - [83] Winge Whine Winge Whine WWWwaaahhh! Leave the crow alone, its ok as it is I love my crow!
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:48:00 - [84] since we are talkin about interceptors again i would like to ask a simple question: asuming the crow is balanced as it is atm with its low mass which makes it very fast and maneuverable, its missle weapon systems which dont have issues with tracking and cap usage, then is it logical to penalize especially closerange interceptors with a higher mass (claw, taranis) making the range an even bigger obstacle ? i dont want to talk about base speeds or tracking issues just simple basic problems. light interceptors dont have problems dictating the range, so imo light interceptors should be based around weapon systems which either need range dictation or have other drawbacks which can be compensated by navigation advantages. on the otherhand heavy interceptors should benefit from a weapon system which can compensate the speed drawbacks of its mass. if a heavy interceptor has problems dictating the range it should at least be able to deal according dmg to its opponent even if he can outmaneuver you. so if u are slow u should be granted the opportunity to hit more than other interceptors. now the conclusion: the crow isnt very balanced imo because of 2 reasons. 1st its very light making it too easy dictating the range. 2nd it benefits from a weapon system which doesnt depend on range dictation (25km range with good missle skills with almost 100% hit chance). the crow can hardly be catched by any other interceptor. its more maneuverable and faster than any other interceptor whilst also being able to outdmg ceptors by a pretty drawbackless weapon system. my suggestion isnt to boost single stats of several interceptors but to rethink the whole interceptor idea and tactics. for example: raven and blasterthron raven is the battleship whith the biggest mass atm but has a weapon system which allows it to hit opponents very effectiveley whilst maintaining a solid shieldtank and comppensate damage at the same time. blasterthron is the second lightest bs of the tier 2 battleships and can benefit from it with mwd and closerange weapon use wilst also being able to compensate dmg for the cost of heavy capacitor use (capbooster charges). why not the same scheme with interceptors ? if u have good and reliable weapons u dont need another bonus giving u even more advantages. if a raven would be faster than an balsterthron there would be no point in using closerange guns. remeber the fact that the crow is less survivable than other ceptors due to its low armour and shield hp isnt an argument if u consider that it doesnt even get hit whilst being that hard to catch. so if u make it slower u should give it automatically more survivability options like more shield hp. my 2 isk Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
Karl Shade FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:49:00 - [85] Leave the Crow alone, it gives other interceptorpilots bad habits that are easily exploitable. -
Selfe Caldari Flashman Services	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:48:00 - [86] Why dont you stop whining and fly it yourself? Please Give me a Pic! Thanks.
kessah Caldari Regeneration Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.02 22:16:00 - [87] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Crow is balanced and I prefer Raptor over Crow. If you nerf Crow, you will need to nerf many other Interceptors. Jenny ive noticed your biased views on the forums latly, its becoming intresting i must say. You seem to yell out your views upon other races quite alot with matari\amarr whines mostly but when it hits your beloved caldari your incredibly close minded. Caldari literally is the easiest race in eve to play with. missle are no brainers seriously dont havta take half as much into account when missles are concerned as aposed to turrets. You dont havta back up the rest of your points, but at least give the community that much. -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate
Horza Otho Minmatar Silver Star Federation	Posted - 2006.08.02 22:21:00 - [88] Originally by: CB Apollo Lets do a comparison: Blaster-Ranis vs crow = crow (ranis cant get in range) Rail-Ranis vs crow = crow (ranis cant track crow) Beam-Crusader vs crow = crow (crusader cant track crow) Pulse-Crusader vs crow = crow (crusader cant get in range for long enough) Claw-AC vs crow = crow (claw cant get in range for long enough) Claw-ARTY vs crow = Crow (Claw cant track crow) Any others? My punisher setup vs your crow = i tank u till u make a stupid mistake and get into my web range, then u pop.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.02 22:25:00 - [89] Originally by: kessah Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Crow is balanced and I prefer Raptor over Crow. If you nerf Crow, you will need to nerf many other Interceptors. Jenny ive noticed your biased views on the forums latly, its becoming intresting i must say. You seem to yell out your views upon other races quite alot with matari\amarr whines mostly but when it hits your beloved caldari your incredibly close minded. Caldari literally is the easiest race in eve to play with. missle are no brainers seriously dont havta take half as much into account when missles are concerned as aposed to turrets. You dont havta back up the rest of your points, but at least give the community that much. Strangely, I find turrets easier to use than missiles. My views arent biased but I am a little fed up with non-Caldari whining for more Caldari nerfs. I use Gallente and Caldari ships and I find Caldari are balanced and not scary like how they are potrayed. Scan the forums. You will find more Minnie and Amarr whines. Minnie whiners whine so hard that my browser crashes everytime I click on the thread. ---------------- Patience is a quality that most people seem to lack.
Shamis Orzoz SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.08.02 22:27:00 - [90] The crow doesn't need a nerf...CCP just needs to fix turret tracking calculations for the guy who is orbiting. An orbiting frigate's guns should barely have to move at all to track the ship he's firing on. And the claw needs an extra 10km of lock range. Then it will be balanced.



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