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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
178
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Posted - 2011.11.24 12:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
When a falcon has 4 mid slots dedicated to shutting you down, and has spent as many months training EW skills to level 5, there is absolutely nothing random about it. Be grateful they can only get one, maybe two, ships at a time, and quit whining. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
178
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 13:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Minigin wrote:
ive spent years rolling dice, its not random when i throw a 6.
You know you're right. The randomness should be removed and that falcon with lvl 5 skills trained should shut you down every damned time. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
178
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 14:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sadayiel wrote: you you can also fit 1-2x mods to counter jam him (that's why ECCM is).
But no, that would break his leet uber tanked "IWIN" button. God forbid he change his fit to allow for ECM ships or, failing that, bring a friend who would deal with any ECM. No, it's much easier to scream NERF NERF! A Falcon is a piece of crap if you don't have the skills to fly it. ECM sucks if you don't have the skills to use it. And I am talking a lot of different level 5 skills. And even then the jam won't always work, and your paper-thin 150M falcon gets killed in a couple shots.
Nah, ECM complainers should just accept that they won't win every time against a skilled opposing force. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
178
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 14:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:
The arguments for and against randomness in general are rather more extensive and complex, but as a general rule I'd lean towards preferring to use something more deterministic, both because randomness makes planning less reliable, and because people's instinctive understanding of statistics/randomness is pretty low.
That's fair - but you have to admit that history has proven time and time again that sometimes random events have cost entire battles. Some things you simply can't plan for. And the first casualty of battle is always the plan.
I honestly don't see the current ECM system as completely random, because a player with the bare minimum ECM skills has nowhere near the ability of a player with max ECM skills. Surely someone who has taken the time to train things like Frequency Modulation, Long Distance Jamming, Signal Dispersion and Recon ships to level V (that is a LOT of skill training time) must be able to provide something to show for their investment. I think too many players think that you just jump into a Falcon and that's it, everyone is permajammed. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
178
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 15:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zendoren wrote:
As long as the game has a counter to randomness, (be that skillz, mods, or bonuses) I'm fine with randomness in my EVE!
What I'm afraid of is that EVE turns into the "I got the magic item now I always win" game. Last week I lost a Falcon, despite being at max skill. Why? The guy had fit ECCM and honestly Falcons have no tank and no DPS, so if you don't jam you are dead. Now I'm not complaining - this is as it should be. The Falcon is a highly specialized ship and giving it tank or DPS would make it too tough.
But I think that any solution should be skill based. Someone who has taken the time to look up and train all those exotic skills should definitely have a clear advantage over someone who just focused on gunnery. Yet more and more I see that EVE is turning into the "copy the magic ship fit" game and creativity is actually being removed. Witness all the "winmatar" ships. Back in the day (Exodus, when I started) it was the magic Raven. In EVE there always seems to be one single fit that is superior to everything else - and frankly that sucks. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
178
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 15:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Soi Mala wrote:
So if i train guns for many months, and dedicate 8 high slots for shooting people, surely i should be able to take out one ship? and they should be greatful that i can only take out one, maybe two at a time. Logic, you suck at it.
Yes. Provided you're not jammed. Maybe fit some ECCM if you expect ECM ships? OH NO MY MAGIC FIT!
Edit: You want to be able to 1) Max DPS, 2) Tank everything and 3) Be immune to jamming.
Pick one. Two even. You can't have all 3. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
178
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 15:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote: The question is whether that "realism" is more or less important to you than the overall competitiveness of the game.
What's important to me - and why I play EVE - is the sheer creative possibilities. Anything that locks players down into three or four "standard" ship fits, with a "standard" fleet composition, in my mind, detracts from the very point of the game that is trying to be made with the thousands of ships and modules, leading to millions/billions of different possible combinations.
Removing ECM or nerfing it to the point of making it useless in my mind locks us down to fewer possibilities. I would be much more in favor of introducing ways to avoid or mitigate ECM, like via gang links or dedicated ships. This would add the need for yet another support player in a fleet, with a specialized skill set. Instead of just creating the invincible "uber-ship" that everyone would then fly. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
178
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 16:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Starlight Kouvo wrote:
Just part of the way I see it.
Well I'm not new I've been playing for close to 7 years now, but I have to say "well said".
There are a certain not so insignificant but also very vocal number of players who love to scream until they get what they want, and what they want is to win every single time. Your comparison to chess is a good one. EVE decided to choose the route of being able to specialize ships by giving us skill, ship bonuses and modules to that effect. If you bring the wrong ship to a fight then you musn't blame the devs or scream that the game is broken - it's not. The queen can be taken by a pawn if she's in the wrong place.
The Falcon is far from being an elite ship at anything except jamming, and then only with the proper skill, and THEN only with the proper type of racial module unless, thanks to "random", you happen to be lucky over and over again. Players screaming that they should not be able to be jammed so easily is like miners complaining that they are able to get suicide ganked so easily. The reply to them is always: lolz the game mechanics allow it, HTFU.
While ECM is far from perfect and absolutely no one likes to be jammed, in order for a Falcon to jam someone it must have a lock on someone (ECM burst suck, AFAIK) and it is limited in the amount of people it can affect in a given time period. So either find a way to break its lock or get those who aren't jammed to kill it post-haste. However when you have a fleet of 8 autocannon/blaster ships and 1 interceptor then no, you aren't going to be able to hit that Falcon 80km away and it serves you right. Bring a sniper or two and hope the sniper doesn't get jammed, or accept that you can't have all have a perfect fit and not a single one of you get jammed. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
178
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 18:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ris Dnalor wrote:Worpout wrote:The only weapon against falcons is to have a 100 man fleet, and bubble it or catch it AFK uncloaked. falcons won't like tornados much I reckon ;)
I think a lot of people won't like tornados much... |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
178
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 23:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
So much easier to fight the design of the ship than to actually come up with tactics to kill the ship, isn't it? It's him it's him change him nerf him, I'm not doing anything wrong, I want to do what I have always done and not change anything at all. Nerf the other guy. |
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