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Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.07 00:14:00 -
[121]
 Originally by: Lord WarATron
Go the whole hog - 8 launchers.
...
The ship needs no bonuses except for em damage. 8 Launchers with a em damage bonus will actually make a em focused ship worthwhile and scary at the same time.
hmm read your post a few times now and i still cant decide if your being serious or silly there. so just in case you really think that you had a good idea there:
how about you start using the abaddons 8 laser turrets with rof or damage bonus on them to do em damage if you really feel the need for it. as an added bonus you even get some therm thrown into the mix which is a lot less crappy than em damage.
seriously: an amarrian ship with launchers should never get a bonus to em-missiles. one of the main reason to actually use missiles instead of lasers is to be able to do a useful type of damage (aka not EM damage for most pvp situations). as you may have noticed most pvp setups armor tank these days. add the em-damage nerf we got from eanmII+dc tank and you may find out why an em-missile bonus is not really useful at all. and even if that would eventually get fixed you can still use your lasers do deal that type of damage. no need to gimp the missile part of the ship for that purpose.
also: giving it a em-missile damage bonus would require removing one of the other 2 bonuses which also happen to be really useful bonuses compared to that one.
Originally by: Lord WarATron
The point is that the Abaddon will cost far more than the raven to manufacture, and will outclass the raven in doing EM damage by such a degree, that people would actually start using Active Armour EM hardners!.
the difference between the cost of a raven and an abaddon will depend entirely on its insurance cost and propably be rather low.
also: if the ship was to become so powerful with em damage, that people would go and fit active em armor hardeners because of it, it would also be slightly overpowered when it comes to shieldtanks.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
Out Siders
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.07 08:13:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 07/08/2006 08:13:59
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Go the whole hog - 8 launchers.
...
The ship needs no bonuses except for em damage. 8 Launchers with a em damage bonus will actually make a em focused ship worthwhile and scary at the same time.
hmm read your post a few times now and i still cant decide if your being serious or silly there. so just in case you really think that you had a good idea there:
how about you start using the abaddons 8 laser turrets with rof or damage bonus on them to do em damage if you really feel the need for it. as an added bonus you even get some therm thrown into the mix which is a lot less crappy than em damage.
seriously: an amarrian ship with launchers should never get a bonus to em-missiles. one of the main reason to actually use missiles instead of lasers is to be able to do a useful type of damage (aka not EM damage for most pvp situations). as you may have noticed most pvp setups armor tank these days. add the em-damage nerf we got from eanmII+dc tank and you may find out why an em-missile bonus is not really useful at all. and even if that would eventually get fixed you can still use your lasers do deal that type of damage. no need to gimp the missile part of the ship for that purpose.
also: giving it a em-missile damage bonus would require removing one of the other 2 bonuses which also happen to be really useful bonuses compared to that one.
I am well aware of the EANMII + Damage control issue. I was perhaps the first guy to post about it a few weeks ago.
However, there are only 2 solutions, more damage types for the amarr or actually make EM a serious damagetype from a specialised ship.
An Abaddon with 8 Launchers and the inquisidor bonus of 10% EM Damage per level, will effectivly be giving 12 launchers worth of EM damage. Anything less that 10-12 Launchers worth of EM damage is close to useless in todays day and age due to the EANMII + DC. And to be realistic, anyone with a shield tank nowadays has around 75% em resist anyway. I have not done the stats, but with missile skills, the damage output increases even further.
The idea sounds crazy, but with 12 EM torps flying at you, tanking EM no longer becomes a joke.
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Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour
FREE |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.08.07 08:29:00 -
[123]
Personally, I think the Abaddon is an awesome ship. I also understand the argument, though, that it's awesome in a way that makes the Geddon and Apoc both redundant.
What you have to remember when making a proposal to change a ship, though, is that the devs will never deviate from their original concept. The only thing you can do is ask fore minor changes, and keep it balanced. Therefore suggesting a missileboat, or a droneboat, will get you no-where. Changing it a little so that it has a few extra drones, or a few more missile hardpoints, would seem a better option to me. Personally, I'd be arguing for a 125m3 drone bay and losing something else to balance it.
Scrapheap Challenge Forums |
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.08.07 08:31:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Go the whole hog - 8 launchers. This will not outpower a raven since a Raven can use balistic's in the lows.. - Abaddon would lose low slots to fund cpu and perhaps even grid meaning that if you set it up for gank - You cannot tank, and vice versa. The ship needs no bonuses except for em damage. 8 Launchers with a em damage bonus will actually make a em focused ship worthwhile and scary at the same time.
The point is that the Abaddon will cost far more than the raven to manufacture, and will outclass the raven in doing EM damage by such a degree, that people would actually start using Active Armour EM hardners!. The Raven outclasses the Abaddon in that a Raven is versitile in a gank setup - it can tank as well. The Abaddon cannot tank in a gank setup, and will end up sacrificing a lot of his slots just to stay on the mark of a raven.
I believe the point with Nyxus' suggested launchers on the Abaddon is not to provide a damage source, nor a primary weapon system, but rather provide a low-cap damage source for when you tank the Abaddon.
Since the Abaddon's bonuses coupled with Amarrian natural high capacitor (necessary high capacitor in this case) means that the Abaddon will be a really good tank when it fits cruiser or siege missile launchers compared to the Raven, it also means a lower missile damage is in order - both from a game balance and a backstory perspective.
As for the EM damage bonus discussion... well let's just say that EM damage is attractive with larger ships and if specifc hardeners are better than a bunchload of omni hardeners. At the moment, sadly, omni hardeners are a lot better than specific hardeners. (That coupled with a reluctance to shield tank by the community, where EM damage is a lot more powerful)
Dark skies torn apart
Heavens open before me
I, the light of death |
Lucre
STK Scientific
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.07 09:21:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Kunming
I wouldnt know what that would be good for. Drones were always the secondary main weapon of Amarr if you look at their ships. I dont see a single missle ship besides the inquisitor and purifier.
But surely the whole point of introducing new ships to your fleet is to bring in capabilities you didn't have before, not ones you did?
And when ships concepts like "missile boat" or "ECM/Nos/drone boat" so obviously dominate atm, the question is surely why wouldn't other races seek to introduce their own versions?
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Hydrogen
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.07 09:48:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Talon Draven
Nice write up, but I also think the Abaddon should be a large Arby/Curse. Which in some way, you kind of refer to by the missile idea.
For one, there is not nearly enough drone ships in EvE to make up for the amount of skill points you can specialize in.
Right now there is nothing for the Curse/Pilgrim users to look for except command ships.
Amarr Recons offer versatility, loads of med slots, resist, drones and... alot of surprises. But: To an Amarr Recon pilot, those current Amarr battleships are plain disgusting. Disgusting due to lack of versatility.
Right now it seems, that drones tracking disruptors, energy neutralizers and nosferatu are Amarr too. Why not continue and make the Abbaddon fit that line?
AF Guide |
Lord WarATron
Amarr
Out Siders
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.07 10:27:00 -
[127]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 07/08/2006 10:27:14
Originally by: Hydrogen
Originally by: Talon Draven
Nice write up, but I also think the Abaddon should be a large Arby/Curse. Which in some way, you kind of refer to by the missile idea.
For one, there is not nearly enough drone ships in EvE to make up for the amount of skill points you can specialize in.
Right now there is nothing for the Curse/Pilgrim users to look for except command ships.
Amarr Recons offer versatility, loads of med slots, resist, drones and... alot of surprises. But: To an Amarr Recon pilot, those current Amarr battleships are plain disgusting. Disgusting due to lack of versatility.
Right now it seems, that drones tracking disruptors, energy neutralizers and nosferatu are Amarr too. Why not continue and make the Abbaddon fit that line?
The Irony is that the Curse could tank like a Cerb and do more dps in a launcher/drone setup. Despite this being a bit off the Amarr Role play roots, it is one of the top 2 Amarr PvP Ships, and a very intresting PvE Ship.
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Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour
FREE |
Nyxus
GALAXIAN
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Posted - 2006.08.07 13:43:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Ithildin
I believe the point with Nyxus' suggested launchers on the Abaddon is not to provide a damage source, nor a primary weapon system, but rather provide a low-cap damage source for when you tank the Abaddon.
Since the Abaddon's bonuses coupled with Amarrian natural high capacitor (necessary high capacitor in this case) means that the Abaddon will be a really good tank when it fits cruiser or siege missile launchers compared to the Raven, it also means a lower missile damage is in order - both from a game balance and a backstory perspective.
Exactly 100% correct. The launchers are to provide a little DPS for when the Abaddon is in a tanking setup, since that tanking setup will require 0 cap consumption weapons. 7 unbonused launchers provides great burst damage/crappy DPS which is the order of the day. The large capacitor and built in 25% resist bonus with 7 lows should provide an unparalelled armor tanker.
It also provides a ship that could be used for support, or as a Beam platform, and varies damage types all of which Amarr need. I would much rather see Amarr have a "burst damage" ship since the other 2 are dps machines. The Abaddon would not entirely supplant them. And you know it's bad when even the hardcore Amarr roleplayers have started using other racial ships.
Originally by: Testy
What you have to remember when making a proposal to change a ship, though, is that the devs will never deviate from their original concept. The only thing you can do is ask fore minor changes, and keep it balanced. Therefore suggesting a missileboat, or a droneboat, will get you no-where. Changing it a little so that it has a few extra drones, or a few more missile hardpoints, would seem a better option to me. Personally, I'd be arguing for a 125m3 drone bay and losing something else to balance it.
I have tried to keep the changes simple, because I agree on the Devs not deviating far from thier original concept. In this case the changes advocated:
- Change +ROF bonus to a +Damage bonus to help with cap
- Make it 8 turrets/7 Launchers
- Adjust fitting to support 8 Megabeam II's, 1 cap inj, and 1 repper @ AWU 5
- Slight Adjustment to Cap recharge
Tux has stated he wants the Abaddon to either Tank or Gank, but not both at the same time. The *ONLY* way an Abaddon can tank is with zero cap use weapons. That means either Missiles or Projectiles. Missiles just make a lot more sense from a backstory perspective.
And it pretty much requires 7launchers to even reach 325 dps with max skills. Any less and you are below 300 dps. Furthermore you can't mix weapons on the Abaddon well and tank because even 4 lasers will take more cap than 8 on an Apoc.
I wouldnt mind bumping the drone bay up to 125m3 though, especially since it would allow the Abaddon to field 5 heavy drones or 2 sets of 5 medium and 1 set of light. It forces a BS to choose it's targets and specialize, which is one of the highlights of the game to me.
Nyxus
Originally by: Tux
The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
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Azuriel Talloth
M. Corp
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.07 15:38:00 -
[129]
I would really like to see this suggestion considered.
CCP Please rename "Warp Disrupt Probes" to "Interdiction Spheres", thanks! |
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.08.07 18:27:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Azuriel Talloth
I would really like to see this suggestion considered.
Same here, it's well written enough that a responce from Tuxford or other dev wouldn't be TOO surprising. It's by far the best suggestion I've seen.
As it is right now, the cap use will be too high even if you don't give a damned about tanking at all.
Dark skies torn apart
Heavens open before me
I, the light of death |
Wodin Drukvik
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.07 18:58:00 -
[131]
Hopefully it will be taken into consideration as a possible solution - has anyone come up with a feasible way of tanking the ship while using lasers as a primary weapons system?
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Ki'ath Jahra
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Posted - 2006.08.07 19:02:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Ki''ath Jahra on 07/08/2006 19:03:41
Honestly, I like the Abaddon. But if it is really going to not have the Large energy turret capacitor use bonus. If this thing is gonna shoot and have no cap, it needs to even have a reason to engage its guns. Howabout a 10% per level bonus to tracking or signature resolution? If i'm gonna have no cap after only a few rounds, I might as well fire my tachs at something smaller than a BS. They could even give the Abaddon an even lower cap to compensate for all the ease of gank to smaller ships. I dunno, just thinking, weapons need some more creative bonuses other than the standard optimal range, rof, or damage bonuses.
EDIT: Or hell, howabout a bonus that lets me pack an extra frequency crystal into my laser? Makes it unstable but knocks the damage through the roof.
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Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.07 19:46:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
I am well aware of the EANMII + Damage control issue. I was perhaps the first guy to post about it a few weeks ago.
However, there are only 2 solutions, more damage types for the amarr or actually make EM a serious damagetype from a specialised ship.
to derail the thread some more:
you could also try and reduce the problem created with the armor compensation skills and the eanmII+dc tank by changing those mods. the em problem lies with the armor resists and using those mods, not with shield resists.
if you boost em damage output you also boost it against shields and ships not using/unable to use a eanmII+dc tank. also: if you boost it on a specalist ship the problem doesnt really get solved for all the others.
if you go and give us other damagetypes you just work around the problem instead of fixing it.
anyway: the main point i was trying to make was that you dont need to change the abaddon from: 5% laser rof (or damage) and 5% armor resists to the inquisitors bonuses if you want to deal heavy em-damage. lasers are pretty good at that already and will not be purely em based on top of it.
and back to the original topic:
as has been said before the idea was not to create a better missileboat than the raven but to give the abaddon a possibility to tank and still fire some weapons (other than projectiles).
if you want to deal damage with it just fit 8 lasers and enjoy the bonus to them until you run dry. if you want to tank you'll still be able to deal some damage with 7 bonusless launchers but your damage output wont approach that of the gankfitting. you'll also be able to deal whatever type of damage you prefer which should help make up for some of that lost raw damage.
a very nice concept which would give the abaddon some difference over the geddon (damage bonus instead of rof) and allow for a nice tanksetup without the use of projectiles.
it will still leave the apoc in a rather useless position if it gets released this way but in contrast to the ship proposed by tux it would at least open some new possibilites for amarr.
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Talthrus
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.07 20:16:00 -
[134]
For all of you saying "Hurr I'd train missiles!" have fun training up an additional 7-10mil SP in missiles to use the ship effectively in PVP at all. Giving Amarr a missile ship would be a complete slap in the face to Amarr pilots as NO PVP viable Amarr ships use missiles (the Sac is a pile of junk in PVP).
The primary issue I have with the Abaddon right now is that it's effectively a confused ship. They've made a ship where you can pretty much use the RoF bonus or the armor bonus. If you want to use the RoF bonus you have to essentially give up the armor bonus, as all it will do is add some extra padding. If you take advantage of the armor bonus to tank your ship you're not going to have the guns to take advantage of the RoF bonus.
Give the Abaddon a clearcut and specific role much like the Gallente and Caldari ships. At least with those ships you know that you have a blaster boat and a sniping ship. I'd love to see a continuation of the recon ship line or a big and nasty version of the zealot. Either make it a drone ship, heavy hitting turret ship, or a tank; don't give it bonuses that negate the other one when you focus on the other.
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ParMizaN
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.07 20:24:00 -
[135]
TBH the bottom line for me and probably the vast majority of plaers is that very few people will use a missile boat and there is no way tux would introduce a ship thats just going to be a massive problem, or not used at all. Or at least I hope so.
sig edited for lack of pink really
PINK -eris |
Stamm
Amarr
GALAXIAN
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Posted - 2006.08.07 21:38:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Wodin Drukvik
Hopefully it will be taken into consideration as a possible solution - has anyone come up with a feasible way of tanking the ship while using lasers as a primary weapons system?
It's quite possible to do. Just use cap efficient crystals, and use cap mods instead of heat sinks. Won't do damage though
The alternative is to whack on 2 cap injectors, but it'd need a hauler along with it to drag booster charges if it wants to fight for more than a few minutes.
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Shadowsword
Gallente
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.08.07 22:30:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Shadowsword on 07/08/2006 22:31:15
It would be nice if someone could calculate the DPS of a 4 pulses with rof or damage bonus and 4 cruise launchers potential setup: as much cap use than a laser-using Apoc, with less cap sustainability but better resists, allowing you to maybe trade the dual large rep tank for a single large + med, and see how it would compare with an average Apoc in sustainability/DPS terms.
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Nuhwall: Why are some Amarr ships warping backward?
Shadowsword: whatever happen, if they need to flee they can honestly say the faced the enemy. |
Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.07 22:30:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Talthrus
For all of you saying "Hurr I'd train missiles!" have fun training up an additional 7-10mil SP in missiles to use the ship effectively in PVP at all.
thats actually not true:
you can train up missiles pretty fast compared to other weapons systems. especially if your only going after one shipclass. also: you dont need to max all missile related skills in order to use them effectively.
Originally by: Talthrus
Giving Amarr a missile ship would be a complete slap in the face to Amarr pilots as NO PVP viable Amarr ships use missiles (the Sac is a pile of junk in PVP).
thats actually not true:
t1: inquisitor, arbitrator, omen, prophecy, apoc
t2: maled, vengeance, purifier, heretic, curse, sacri
sure most of them dont use missiles as a primary weapon, but if you really want to use the ships to their fullest potential you will need some missile skills already.
Originally by: Talthrus
I'd love to see a continuation of the recon ship line or a big and nasty version of the zealot.
zealot is t2. the new battleships will be t1.
the t1 version of the zealot would be the omen. a "big and nasty" version of the omen is alreay available with the geddon. also: the abaddon as proposed by tux would be a bigger and better geddon.
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
The Nest
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Posted - 2006.08.07 22:32:00 -
[139]
Well... I think people should field a wingmate in the augoror with the abaddon. It is a fleet ship afterall.
Team Minmatar
Carriers need Clone Vats
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Nyxus
GALAXIAN
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Posted - 2006.08.08 06:23:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Edited by: Shadowsword on 07/08/2006 22:31:15
It would be nice if someone could calculate the DPS of a 4 pulses with rof or damage bonus and 4 cruise launchers potential setup: as much cap use than a laser-using Apoc, with less cap sustainability but better resists, allowing you to maybe trade the dual large rep tank for a single large + med, and see how it would compare with an average Apoc in sustainability/DPS terms.
Please note the Abaddon has a 25% damage bonus rather than the ROF bonus in this graph.
Abaddon 4/4, 7 Launcher, 8 Megapulse, vs Raven, Raven with 1 Ballistic, and Geddon
In close range setup running 8 Megapulse IIs the Abaddon doesn't do much more damage than a geddon with Megapulse when we only consider the guns. Of course, it's using the capacitor equivalent of *16 Megapulse II's with Conflag* to net maybe 25 or 30 more dps. IMHO not worth it and incredibly difficult to maintain from a cap perspective, let alone run any repping at all.
The 4/4 Abaddon setup isn't too bad, but you have the cap consumption of 8 guns on the Apoc with almost the same or the same slot layout so you really aren't tanking any better (worse if you consider that the Abaddon has worse overall cap). The resist bonus will help obviously. Easier to fit than a straight turret setup although CPU is going to be an issue when trying to fit megapulse II's and Siege II's and a tank.
The 7 launcher Abaddon lets you have a choice. 6 launchers and a HUGE tank or 7 launchers and probably a fitting mod for a bit more burst damage with slightly lower resists.
The 8 turret/7 Launcher Abaddon allows for a variety of setups and damage types depending on what is needed. I truly believe that this is the best option put forth that continues along the theme that the Devs have provided for the Abaddon (Gank or Tank, but not both at the same time), it keeps to the backstory, allows for viable gank or tanking setups, keeps the ship itself balanced by being usefull but not overpowered, and fills a very needed role in the Amarrian fleet.
I hope Tux and his team feel the same way.
Nyxus
PS - I would still like the name to change to "Moloch" or something other than "Abaddon". Just in case Amarr do get another drone ship at some point I would like to save that name. Of course, if they do adopt some or all of my suggestions they could just call it the "Nyxus" and that would be ok too. 
Originally by: Tux
The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
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Lucre
STK Scientific
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.08 08:57:00 -
[141]
Originally by: ParMizaN
Edited by: ParMizaN on 07/08/2006 20:26:24
TBH the bottom line for me and probably the vast majority of plaers is that very few people will use a missile boat and there is no way tux would introduce a ship thats just going to be a massive problem, or not used at all. Or at least I hope so.
Actually I suspect there are probably quite a few Amarr-flying pilots out there who at some point (inbetween various nerfs!) have also trained up reasonable missile skills, either to use Ravens on missions or just to give their ratting Apoc frigate-swatting capability or an explosion-damage supplement.
Personally I'd love an Amarr missile/drone BS and would certainly use one!
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Luric Vizjier
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.08 17:03:00 -
[142]
Just as a quick note, since the tier 3 BS's will be arriving the same time as Salvaging and Rigs, its very possible that Tux has something up his sleeve regarding these and the Abaddon.
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Wodin Drukvik
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.10 19:57:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Luric Vizjier
Just as a quick note, since the tier 3 BS's will be arriving the same time as Salvaging and Rigs, its very possible that Tux has something up his sleeve regarding these and the Abaddon.
Even if that's the case, requiring a specialty rig to perform one of the primary roles is still somewhat backwards, given that rigs seemed to be being presented as a little extra boost rather than a mandatory thing every pilot would have on their ship.
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O Olho
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Posted - 2006.08.16 19:34:00 -
[144]
We were asked for some well thought out feedback on what we thought could make ships effective, interesting, and balanced.
I wish we could get some feedback on our feedback. If you spend a lot of time on something you would like to at least know that it wasn't just lost in all the white noise. Even if you don't like it and hate the whole idea, at least then we could know we are barking up the wrong/right tree.
Nyxus
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Nyxus
GALAXIAN
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Posted - 2006.08.16 19:40:00 -
[145]
We were asked for some well thought out feedback on what we thought could make ships effective, interesting, and balanced.
I wish we could get some feedback on our feedback. If you spend a lot of time on something you would like to at least know that it wasn't just lost in all the white noise. Even if you don't like it and hate the whole idea, at least then we could know we are barking up the wrong/right tree.
Nyxus
Originally by: Tux
The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
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IHaveTenFingers
Caldari
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2006.08.19 04:05:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 06/08/2006 11:57:59
amarrians want some more variety. we want a way to deal damage other than using lasers only. as far as secondary weapons systems go you get to chose from drones and missiles in that regard. we already use drones and they are much more important to amarrian pvp than missiles. is that really so hard to understand?
sure an amarrian missileboat would serve that purpose just as well but that would be much more of a change from what amarrians currently use than a droneboat.
also..theres no need to make it a drone+ewar battelship really. an amarrina drone-bs could work nicely with a dronebonus and a tanking bonus for example and still be different from the domi.
the major point of the whole exercise would be to make amarrians less predictable in what they can do. when it comes to weapon systems (like drones for example) you may notice that dealing damage is what they do most of the time.
with the number of useable drones set to 5 these days theres really not all that much you can do to modify their effectiveness in combat. which is propably why pretty much every drone specialist ship gets this 10% damage/hitpoint bonus. thats especially true at the battelship level where you cant just add more dronespace to allow for bigger drones.
sure you can go and boost other features of drones besides their damage output/hitpoints. the problem is that with the restriction to 5 drones a droneboat needs a damageboost in order to make the drones its primary weapon.
boosting drone tracking or speed would make the heavy drones on a battleship more useful against small targets but add nothing to its ability to fight in its own class.
boosting drone optimal and drone control range is only really useful for sentry drones which due to their own limitations would require a dronebay at least as large as the domis and a damage bonus on top of it.
if your so scared that an amarrian droneboat would overpower the dominix why dont you start a thread requesting a boost to the domi. maybe ask for a 2nd dronebonus. get the domi shifted to a higher tier or even try and get another drone-bs.
also: if you really wanted to stay rp-conform when it comes to balancing issues you would actually have to deal with a weak domi as its supposed to an old (aka outdated) design.
ah so the ishkur is pretty much useless then and the domi would work just as well with 125m3? are you sure that you know how drones work? i agres that dronebay size alone is not a good enough feature once you reach battleship level but to claim that a larger dronebay is useless doesnt really add to your credibility.
amarrians would design a bigger arbitrator because on the cruiser level that is our most useful ship currently. it can perform very well in a variety of different situations ranging form solocombat right up to fleetsupport. it has some ewar potential and at the same time you cant disable an arbi just as easily as the rest of our t1 cruisers.
compare that to the bs level where we have no variety and both available ships (apparently soon all 3 available ships) can be countered quiet easily with one setup wich works against all of them at the same time. to top it off they offer pretty much no support ability......
I know its a somewhat old thread and a bit off the topic, but as for your idea about damage variate in amarr ships, a tech II crytstal that can do small amounts of kinetic or explosive damage would be nice, i know its seems odd being energy weapons, but tehy could be "Particle Acceleration Crystals", or "gravitonic bombardment crystals", something cool like that but dies quicker. I dont know. just dreaming.
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Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.08.19 08:16:00 -
[147]
Related to the topic:
Some time ago someone posted a link to an html/txt file that would show the stats of tier 3 BS, tier 2 BC, and a few odd faction/jove/never-released-T2 ships if the file was opened in game. It's impossible to find it again with the forum search engine, so could someone help me?
Dark skies torn apart
Heavens open before me
I, the light of death |
Nyxus
GALAXIAN
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Posted - 2006.08.19 16:38:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Ithildin
Related to the topic:
Some time ago someone posted a link to an html/txt file that would show the stats of tier 3 BS, tier 2 BC, and a few odd faction/jove/never-released-T2 ships if the file was opened in game. It's impossible to find it again with the forum search engine, so could someone help me?
The only one that I knew of is Jide's Object Inventory.
It's woefully out of date now. I wish Jide would update it again!
Not sure if that is what you are looking for or not. Do you mean to say that you would actually open it in the in-game browser to see whats in the current build of Tranq? Either a new update of Jide's Database or what you are describing would be very interesting. Especially since it would be interesting if we could get a peek at some of the stats they are tweaking for Tier 3 BS/Tier 2 BC.
Nyxus
Originally by: Tux
The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
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General Tso's
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.08.20 06:46:00 -
[149]
For me the problem has always been diversity and flexibility.
So when someone says making an amar ship into a drone/missle boat is a slap in the face, not really, i'd gladly train a new set of skills.
All other races have so much differences between there Tier1 and Tier2 BS's
Then you get to Armageddon and Apoc, which have slight differences in layout and bonus. So i guess i was hoping for a change of pace, not another 8 slot gunboat. Would you want another scorpion like ship? with minor differences? or another domi or typhoon?
I'll be honest here, i would even be happy with a logisitics style bs (Energy transfer bonus), over another 8 turret gunboat... Thats funny, minmatar's are dying for an 8 turret boat, and amar's are begging to not have another... How about we hook up the minnies with an 8 turret, and hook us amar up with something different?
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They say the universe is perfect
If you try to change it, you'll only ruin it
If you try to hold onto it, it will only slip away |
Treitei
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Posted - 2006.09.08 04:48:00 -
[150]
I'm surprised I didn't see this thread before.
I like the idea of Abaddon being made into a drone/ewar ship similar to the Arbitrator, but it seems like it'd be pretty hard to make it balance, especially noting that its Gallente's specialty. Tbqh, I'd be surprised if the current concept for the Abaddon now changes significantly before they release it in Kali.
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