Don't forget about capital jump range.
Block their ability to jump between regions, and force them to use XL sized regional gates.
Every one wins!
Even blocking ability to bridge between regions could be good.

With the death of the new cyno bumping mechanics, can we now at least make it so that you cannot bridge from the safety of a pos? Bridging is extremely powerful and largely risk free if done from the safety of a pos with the exception of spias and awoking which the pos doesnt protect against anyways. If folk want to bridge, they should have to at least put the bridging ship at some risk - after all eve's mantra is risk v. reward.

now that we are at it why don't we just add this to station also and kill logistic

cynogen/jb i guess no one cares but station? oh boy you wona kill low sec no more jump freighters lol

While at it, why don't you ask CCP for a button to instantly teleport you on top of nearest JF in null space and automatically get it tackled for you?

You are not making any sense. Nobody would live in null if logistics was tangled with your weird vision.

I have no fundamental problem with ending jumping to docking rings (though you'd need to do some thinking about if jump freighters would need a corresponding buff of some kind), but it seems silly to extend the discussion that far without figuring out what the goals are here.

Null was a different place with different variables in logistics before Red Moon Rising. CCP moved away from that vision, to the current vision. Now, CCP has another vision that they are building towards with the player built stargates and all, but that is not a discussion pertaining to this forum thread.

the content that does exist in 0.0 exists only because of jump freighters, and although there's little content in killing or saving them they are a necessary factor in any other content

i am saying what i posted, not whatever nonsense you understood

logistics that exist in a way that permits transport of goods to and from highsec in volumes and effort levels that only jump freighters can supply is an absolute necessity for any content in 0.0

you can tweak the safety in which they do so (though that is an increase in effort and can cause issues if not balanced) but the idea of going back to freighter ops is one of those mind-bogglingly stupid ideas only ever put forth by people who have never been on a freighter op

man if the most fun you had in 2007 was freighter ops i hope you got the mental health treatment you needed because that's just a horrible life to be living, a completely pleasureless year is a sign something is seriously wrong i have had to organize and attend freighter ops recently - short ones, relatively speaking - and every bit of it sucked. there were no redeeming features whatsoever. you cannot simply rely on local hubs because the eve economy is set up to require trading: ice, moon minerals, and regular minerals are regional. you simply must import low-ends, non-regional moon minerals, and the non-local isotopes at a bare minimum. that's not even including other stuff like datacores, faction mods, deadspace mods, decryptors and the like that all must be imported from somewhere else but aren't as big volume-wise crius made it a lot more managable to do local production so the need for JFs is (hopefully) dwindling somewhat - I know we've turned from a net importer of t2 ships to a net exporter. but that doesn't mean we can survive without logistical lines to empire: you end jfs and we'll move to torrinos and supply ourselves with npc freighters like i said i've got no fundamental opposition to making jfing somewhat riskier by making it no longer possible to cyno onto docking rings, but the idea of freighter ops as the standard for logitics is madness

What? There is no Veldspar in 0.0? I think you may be wrong on that! I think Chribba can confirm that there is veldspar in 0.0.

hella offtopic but even completely discounting minerals, you still have to deal with the other crap he talked about

0.0 cannot exist in a vacuum, the whole of the economy is predicated on inter-regional trade

right now i do it like : jump blind to the beacon (because who needs a scout) warp to my bookmark @ 100
after the patch i do it like : jump blind to the beacon (because who needs a scout) warp to my bookmark @ 100.

Can you find the difference? If yes then please let me know. im always open for new things

Yea i should have known better before posting something ironical here. But i will edit it to prevent further irritation.

However since you are busy with your feighter ops i could also just give no fucks and jump blind ;)

Any time you bring that fleet into a POS you're going to have to take an extra (unprotected) jump to get inside the POS shields, which adds a layer of vulnerability (albeit a small one).

As a small first step, it's a good one.... hopefully not the last one.

Good game play comes from activities being risky, not from activities being easy... and right now it is far too safe and easy to move a cap fleet (or jump freighter) anywhere you like.

It's ironic, people mock those that say yes to the thought of needing to do freighter ops again to move logistics out to null. And yet those freighter ops used to provide more good fights in a single night than you currently see in Null in a week or more.

Harder and more time consuming? Yes.
More fun, more fights, more unexpected surprises (both good and bad)? Absolutely.

For those that claim they never got a fight transporting goods back and forth to null in a freighter op either:
1: Never actually did one.
2: Did one or two, got bored halfway through and logged off (conveniently forgetting to mention that part).
3: Had opponents so wimpy at that time you wouldn't get a good fight no matter what you did.

Time to stop listening to your lazy industry pilots. If you want to have more fun, let CCP start interjecting some of the risk back into null sec daily activities.

The biggest issue I have with this is that the exclusion zone prevents cynos from being lit at all, instead of just allowing it but placing incoming ships 25+km. Titans dying without being able to bring in backup after being bumped out is less content generation than a titan being bumped out and bringing a fleet in to help.

The only time you'd ever do this would be if there were simply no lowsec stations that you could route through whatsoever, because you'd much rather jump to a docking ring (perfect safety) and dock up to recap.

For supercaps, yeah i suppose you have to warp instead but who the **** slowboats a titan instead of warping it into the pos - I sure don't, if my titan is getting cynoed anywhere it's getting cynoed so that I can mwd-warp into the pos (which you can do pretty close to the pos by having a bookmark/alt on the other side you warp to at 100km) instead of take 30s or more to slowboat.

We have organized and ran two large freighter ops relatively recently. It was unfun crap for all involved, and naturally because we were moving huge, expensive **** we made very, very sure there would be no fights whatsoever. All of the nullsec empires have been doing freighter ops on and off because we have to in order to get outpost upgrades or large ihub upgrades. We still haven't had any interesting content and anyone who thinks they ever were fun hasn't done one since 2007 and has their memories of what they actually were utterly addled by the tendency to remember only the interesting stuff and forget the soul-crushing drudgery.

I do not believe that a single Goonswarm freighter op since Dominion forced nullsec to start doing them again (for ihubs and upgrades) has ever generated a fight. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Dude, seek medical attention imediately. You might be having a stroke or something that is seriously screwing with your memory, also get to an ophthalmologist to see about the rose tinted lenses in your eyes.

An Imbecile, who doesn't know the difference between plesurable and painful activities, or masochist, where you derive pleasure from painful activities. Which one are you? Since you are very articulate in your speach in these forums I have to go with the latter of the two, but this last quote of yours throws that into doubt.

That is an ad homeinem attack. What I said earlier was genuine concern for a fellow human being who is obviously confused about things as they happened in the past. You painted a whistful, rosey, happy time, about freighter ops in the past, and how they sparked "gud fights," and were "exciting." I don't have rose tinted galsses on, and I can tell you that freighter ops were boring unfun shitefests, and if things got "exciting" or a fight broke out because of the op, it was because someone goofed. You are moving a significant amount of corp/alliance assets in a slow vulnerable freighter, no one wants an "exciting" time, not the freighter pilot, not the corp/alliance leaders, no one.

"Yay, we had a good fight on the freighter op."

No, someone F'ed up, and put a significant amount of corp/alliance assets at risk. The only one claiming "gud fights" and "fun" is you, and I want you to get checked out by a professional to see if your brain is okay. Either your brain is messed up, or you have some wicked rose tinted glasses. Those are the only options since freighter ops, in my personal experience and inherently by design, are supposed to be boring, unfun, shitefests, where nothing is supposed to happen except the freighter gets to its destination, both in the past, now, and continuing on into the foreseeable future.

titans were designed with the idea they were so expensive only a handful would ever exist (lawl)