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Structure of corps and alliances - Where did Gooswarm go wrong?

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Rexthor Hammerfists Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 09:38:00 - [421] "Timing. Why now? BoB have complained about almost every aspect of GS from day 1. So why now? " complete bull****, wont repeat the story again... - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
Captain Thunk Explode. Now. Please.	Posted - 2006.08.09 10:16:00 - [422] Edited by: Captain Thunk on 09/08/2006 10:17:29 A cop out clause if ever I saw one - the evidence speaks for itself and is in plain view on these very forums. As I said, it's beginning to appear to me that BoB lacks the courage of its convictions. This emerging two tier system is by no means a good thing for any community especially this one and if we are to have an Eve Internet Police Force I for one would prefer them to be independent. CAPTAIN THUNK If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...The ENP-Team.
Dekiri Useless Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.09 10:24:00 - [423] Originally by: Antetma Originally by: Darkrydar Originally by: Antetma This is my main thank you very much. In a noob corp for one year, one month and have 0.0 sec rating. yeah right Typical BoB, assumes too much. And for those of you who seem to eat up the garbage spewed up on these forums; you are by far some of the most gullible people I have ever seen. You really don't have to assume much if you are presenting a char as "your main" that has no standings towards anything. Either admit alt posting or just shut up since you have not even played the game yet. -------------- My dad can beat up your dad!
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 11:06:00 - [424] Originally by: Captain Thunk -Stuff- Translation of what Captain Thunk said: I'm Strangely confused about the difference between common smack, and mocking the real life death of folk's family members. You mean to say that there is a difference??? Captain Thunk, if you can identify a BoB member that has done what a number of Goons have done to start this, I can assure you that UNLIKE the Goons, you will not see daily repeats of the incident, and it will be taken seriously. snip This type of comment has no place in a signature, please remain courteous - Pirlouit
Captain Thunk Explode. Now. Please.	Posted - 2006.08.09 11:15:00 - [425] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Captain Thunk -Stuff- Translation of what Captain Thunk said: I'm Strangely confused about the difference between common smack, and mocking the real life death of folk's family members. You mean to say that there is a difference??? Captain Thunk, if you can identify a BoB member that has done what a number of Goons have done to start this, I can assure you that UNLIKE the Goons, you will not see daily repeats of the incident, and it will be taken seriously. As I said, you're using the stereotype to blame an entire group that coincidentally could possibly challenge you at a future date. You're referring to "the conversation" and "the signature" two events months apart and neither intended or deliberately placed infront of any BoB member. The signature guy was kicked from his alliance yet you still insist that you have the right to exorcise an entire group from the game? It's not justifiable. Had you seriously been harrassed by any members of Goonswarm in the manner you describe you could easily have them petitioned and banned - yet you've chosen to take the law into your own hands. I am however reassured that you will only do this to emerging alliances that potentially could prove a threat to your alliance at a later date CAPTAIN THUNK If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...The ENP-Team.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 11:21:00 - [426] Originally by: Captain Thunk The signature guy was kicked from his alliance yet you still insist that you have the right to exorcise an entire group from the game? Actually, he wasn't. The Goons said they were going to do that because they thought it would avoid hostilities, not because they thought it the right thing to do. When it became apparent that it would not have the intended goal (mostly because of the huge volumes of Goon posts defending him before the announcement that he would be removed), they stated that it was nothing more than an act of appeasement, and not in any way a sincere gesture. Don't believe me? Go back and read, rather than spouting your fantasy version of events. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Captain Thunk Explode. Now. Please.	Posted - 2006.08.09 11:25:00 - [427] Edited by: Captain Thunk on 09/08/2006 11:25:12 I did read it thank you very much, he left his corp and he apologised sincerely in the thread in question. Just because you don't want to believe he wasn't sincere doesn't make you right - nonetheless it's undeniable that it was never intended for BoB members to see, which makes his apology seem all the more sincere. Who exactly is in the fantasy world here? CAPTAIN THUNK If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...The ENP-Team.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 11:30:00 - [428] Originally by: Captain Thunk he left his corp No, he didn't. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Captain Thunk Explode. Now. Please.	Posted - 2006.08.09 11:38:00 - [429] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Captain Thunk he left his corp No, he didn't. I can't confirm that as I'm neither at home or at a computer with the Eve Client installed. Did he intend for any of BoB to see it? Facts are: He was sincere in his apology. He didn't intend for BoB to see it. You are tarring the entire SA with this one mans signature. If he didn't leave it's because you had your excuse and weren't going to drop it. What you've done is made that signature come true, which in my mind is infinitely worse. It was drawn up in the first place because "the conversation" was continually brought up for propaganda even though it was a long time out of context. CAPTAIN THUNK If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...The ENP-Team.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 11:52:00 - [430] Look Thunk, you can try to spin it however you like; however if the sig had never existed, none of this would have happened. You can dislike or mistrust BoB's reaction, but it was just that, a reaction. Ultimately, you are trying to blame the effect, not the cause. If you think the effect in some way justifies the cause, you seriously need to consider what you are saying. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Captain Thunk Explode. Now. Please.	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:00:00 - [431] No I'm saying you can't hold an entire alliance responsible for one signature, which despite your spin is exactly what you're saying. CAPTAIN THUNK If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...The ENP-Team.
Loka Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:01:00 - [432] Nice reads, but regardless who is right and who is not. EVE is and was since i knew a game of power. You can put pressure on anyone, so anyone can put pressure on you. Wild Wild West. If a corp is crossing your way, starting to attack you, you will have few options to deal with this. Fight back, pay someone to fight for you or surrender at their term. If you want to evade PvP confrontation, there is only one way and that is to join a noobcorp. Iam sorry to tell you this, but you aint the first corp under pressure. Iam pretty sure thousands of Corps, dozens of alliance still alive or already dead felt this kind of pressure once. Its survive, surrender or die. That is EVE. It doesnt matter if its fair. I was in CFS once and were under big pressure, while still trying to keep 0.0 free for all not only our alliance. We had NO NBSI policy and tryed to hold the space open for any corps whishing to visit us. We were under daily attack of almost any pirate corp and CA, which was one of the most aggressive and powerfull alliance back then. It last almost one year until we had to surrender. Was this fair? Imo ofc not, but who cares. If you cant hold your ground by military force, than you shouldnt have it. Thats the game. If you feel harrased by BoB petition it. If they put pressure on you, fight back or pay someone to fight for you. If you cant afford paying someone or dont have the will/possibility to fight back, surrender or close your corp doors. In EVE history you wasnt the first and wont be last corp/alliance under massive pressure. Deal with it ingame, sounds hard, but thats the thing every other corp or alliance is doing for years. This is not about fairness, its about if you can handle it yourself. If its aint BoB, probably next time its a pirate or merc corp putting pressure on you. If you think you are the first or the only alliance probably dispatched, than you are wrong Sir. SA, CA, Xetic, FA, NORAD, JQA, CFS, StA, DSMA, PA, FE and many more names i can remember who dont exist anymore or are only a shadow of themselfs now, where they were called once powerhouses in EVE. At the end of the day, it doesnt matter why someone wages war on you. The question will only be if you will or if you wont fight back. _________________________ Iam back
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:04:00 - [433] Originally by: Loka EVE is and was since i knew a game of power. I am sorry to tell you this, but you aint the first corp under pressure. Its survive, surrender or die. That is EVE. It doesnt matter if its fair. If you cant hold your ground by military force, than you shouldnt have it. If you cant afford paying someone or dont have the will/possibility to fight back, surrender or close your corp doors. This is not about fairness, its about if you can handle it yourself. NICE! Dude, you need to run for President (or Warlord) of something. - Latest MC Movie - Nation Building
Captain Thunk Explode. Now. Please.	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:05:00 - [434] BoB are perfectly free to wage war on Goonswarm, I'm not disputing that. The problem is the outofgame nature of this particular war and what it holds for the future. Its setting a precedent of convenience for BoB, just because they've pledged to not do this themselves again and prevent anyone else from following in their footsteps does not excuse what they are doing, in fact makes it worse as it conceeds that what they are actually doing is wrong and they know it. Warring the goons is perfectly legitimate and fine, but trying to grief them entirely out of the game is wrong on many levels. CAPTAIN THUNK If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...The ENP-Team.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:30:00 - [435] Originally by: Captain Thunk BoB are perfectly free to wage war on Goonswarm, I'm not disputing that. The problem is the outofgame nature of this particular war and what it holds for the future. Its setting a precedent of convenience for BoB, just because they've pledged to not do this themselves again and prevent anyone else from following in their footsteps does not excuse what they are doing, in fact makes it worse as it conceeds that what they are actually doing is wrong and they know it. Warring the goons is perfectly legitimate and fine, but trying to grief them entirely out of the game is wrong on many levels. CAPTAIN THUNK Well, if they care then obviously Eve is more to them than just an internet spaceships game, and so their rhetoric is undone ... or if they don't care, why should you? If they fail to disassociate themselves from cause, then they are seen as condoning it, and so it is perfectly fair to hold each and every member equally responsible. Besides, they say they like shooting at internet spaceships, so we are doing them a favour, right? (If only they would actually back that claim up) The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Captain Thunk Explode. Now. Please.	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:37:00 - [436] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Captain Thunk BoB are perfectly free to wage war on Goonswarm, I'm not disputing that. The problem is the outofgame nature of this particular war and what it holds for the future. Its setting a precedent of convenience for BoB, just because they've pledged to not do this themselves again and prevent anyone else from following in their footsteps does not excuse what they are doing, in fact makes it worse as it conceeds that what they are actually doing is wrong and they know it. Warring the goons is perfectly legitimate and fine, but trying to grief them entirely out of the game is wrong on many levels. CAPTAIN THUNK Well, if they care then obviously Eve is more to them than just an internet spaceships game, and so their rhetoric is undone ... or if they don't care, why should you? If they fail to disassociate themselves from cause, then they are seen as condoning it, and so it is perfectly fair to hold each and every member equally responsible. Besides, they say they like shooting at internet spaceships, so we are doing them a favour, right? (If only they would actually back that claim up) You said yourself they offered to kick him, but it wasn't good enough Why kick him and show that they agree it was wrong when it does no good? You're not shooting their internet spaceships are you? you're driving them out of the game because it suits you. I care because of the dangerous precedent this sets for the future of the game, as do a lot of other people judging by the number of views of this thread. I can well understand why so few post their own opinions though considering the recent dramatic change in climate here A lot of goons consider Eve much more than an Internet Spaceship game as you well know, I believe I covered taking one persons view and using it as a stereotype and applying it to them all earlier. There have been a number of goons who have posted (back when they used to post) that they disagreed with the "internet spaceships game" - feel free to continually ignore that for convenience though. CAPTAIN THUNK If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...The ENP-Team.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:40:00 - [437] How would you know what the goons think, thunk? Are you a goon? If so, why aren't you in GoonSwarm actually doing something about it, instead of being in a "hauling and mining" alliance. Yeah, thought so. Keep up the bob hating, you are fast becoming our number 1 fanboi. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:41:00 - [438] If they don't agree with the image their alliance paints of itself (and it is the image they paint, not one we paint them with - you should sit in local with these guys), they should leave. Guilt by association. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:43:00 - [439] Originally by: Avon If they don't agree with the image their alliance paints of itself (and it is the image they paint, not one we paint them with - you should sit in local with these guys), they should leave. Guilt by association. Indeed, and to those in goonswarm who say "we're too big to deal with our troublemakers", I can only give the option of the biggest alliance in the game - ascn. They seem to manage their team just fine. But then I guess it makes a difference when you have a real leader in place. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:45:00 - [440] Originally by: Captain Thunk I care because of the dangerous precedent this sets for the future of the game, as do a lot of other people judging by the number of views of this thread. I can well understand why so few post their own opinions though considering the recent dramatic change in climate here Seriously. Grow up. This has happened since the start of the game. This is the EVE full on experience and it's why most stay here. No game is this vibrant when it comes to this part, and it involves spaceships, creation of societies, full political intrigue. We even, lo and behold, have collective suicides being committed on the forums
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:47:00 - [441] Originally by: Captain Thunk Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Captain Thunk -Stuff- Translation of what Captain Thunk said: I'm Strangely confused about the difference between common smack, and mocking the real life death of folk's family members. You mean to say that there is a difference??? Captain Thunk, if you can identify a BoB member that has done what a number of Goons have done to start this, I can assure you that UNLIKE the Goons, you will not see daily repeats of the incident, and it will be taken seriously. As I said, you're using the stereotype to blame an entire group that coincidentally could possibly challenge you at a future date. You're referring to "the conversation" and "the signature" two events months apart and neither intended or deliberately placed infront of any BoB member. The signature guy was kicked from his alliance yet you still insist that you have the right to exorcise an entire group from the game? It's not justifiable. Had you seriously been harrassed by any members of Goonswarm in the manner you describe you could easily have them petitioned and banned - yet you've chosen to take the law into your own hands. I am however reassured that you will only do this to emerging alliances that potentially could prove a threat to your alliance at a later date CAPTAIN THUNK This is EVE, and in EVE Law IS in our own hands. **** of the wrong people, and well, you're gonna get hurt. Welcome to it.
Kyle Kehrer	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:50:00 - [442] Originally by: Captain Thunk BoB are perfectly free to wage war on Goonswarm, I'm not disputing that. The problem is the outofgame nature of this particular war and what it holds for the future. Its setting a precedent of convenience for BoB, just because they've pledged to not do this themselves again and prevent anyone else from following in their footsteps does not excuse what they are doing, in fact makes it worse as it conceeds that what they are actually doing is wrong and they know it. Warring the goons is perfectly legitimate and fine, but trying to grief them entirely out of the game is wrong on many levels. CAPTAIN THUNK Amen dude, the evidence speaks for itself.
Captain Thunk Explode. Now. Please.	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:54:00 - [443] Originally by: DB Preacher How would you know what the goons think, thunk? Are you a goon? If so, why aren't you in GoonSwarm actually doing something about it, instead of being in a "hauling and mining" alliance. Yeah, thought so. Keep up the bob hating, you are fast becoming our number 1 fanboi. dbp Take a look at who I am and my corp and personal history. Your arrogance does you no favours here. I'm neither a goon, nor related in any way to any of them. I've spoken to BoB far more than I have goons. If you're going to use witty retorts on me, please at least do me the honour of coming up with a new one you raging clunk. CAPTAIN THUNK If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...The ENP-Team.
Captain Thunk Explode. Now. Please.	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:56:00 - [444] Originally by: Fred0 Originally by: Captain Thunk I care because of the dangerous precedent this sets for the future of the game, as do a lot of other people judging by the number of views of this thread. I can well understand why so few post their own opinions though considering the recent dramatic change in climate here Seriously. Grow up. This has happened since the start of the game. This is the EVE full on experience and it's why most stay here. No game is this vibrant when it comes to this part, and it involves spaceships, creation of societies, full political intrigue. We even, lo and behold, have collective suicides being committed on the forums I wasn't aware of any other alliances being griefed out of the game publically with no remorse for being a cancer. I'm just a n00b so I'll spend this afternoon looking up the ancient threads on these forums to see who you're talking about CAPTAIN THUNK If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...The ENP-Team.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 13:00:00 - [445] Grats, you might actually be starting to understand eve. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Captain Thunk Explode. Now. Please.	Posted - 2006.08.09 13:03:00 - [446] So you're saying BoB may repeat this and anyone is ok to go ahead with it? Interesting developments, not sure why CCP needs to add regions though if the subscription will only go down (as we get griefed out of the game one by one) CAPTAIN THUNK If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...The ENP-Team.
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2006.08.09 13:28:00 - [447] Edited by: Kcel Chim on 09/08/2006 13:29:58 Originally by: Captain Thunk So you're saying BoB may repeat this and anyone is ok to go ahead with it? Interesting developments, not sure why CCP needs to add regions though if the subscription will only go down (as we get griefed out of the game one by one) CAPTAIN THUNK this is not a bob thing, it happens in eve every day. RA is under attack by a coalition of allies for atleast 6 months now. They are determined to go the whole way to force RA from the south and RA is determined to stay. Goons ****ed off 1 alliance, 2 if you count the mercenaries, 3-6 if you count the wars they declared themself. Tough luck. There is no need to "leave the game" for an individual. You can always quit the corp and rejoin some other corp at the far end of the universe. Same applies for "regular" corps. However after all the insults, the childish behaviour and trash exchanged i cant see Goonswarm as an alliance or the corps within pulling an easy way out card anytime soon. They will be hunted and killed but thats eve. Grudges in eve exist for everyone. Take the whole Atuk celest thing going back 3 years and still burning hot within some ppl. Goons just learned that Eve is no fire and forget environment where u can act like a jackass and 2 days later ppl have forgotten about it and ure left of the hook for it. CA have been at war with alot of ppl for 2 years. The great northern war lasted atleast a year. Goons feel the pressure for 2 weeks and whine about ppl forcing them to quit the game ? LOL seriously.
Captain Thunk Explode. Now. Please.	Posted - 2006.08.09 13:30:00 - [448] Seriously, I'm not arguing that. All I've posted is in reference to BoBs ambition to remove them entirely from the game, not just fight and destroy the alliance. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...The ENP-Team.
Antetma University of Caille	Posted - 2006.08.09 13:31:00 - [449] Originally by: Dekiri Originally by: Antetma Originally by: Darkrydar Originally by: Antetma This is my main thank you very much. In a noob corp for one year, one month and have 0.0 sec rating. yeah right Typical BoB, assumes too much. And for those of you who seem to eat up the garbage spewed up on these forums; you are by far some of the most gullible people I have ever seen. You really don't have to assume much if you are presenting a char as "your main" that has no standings towards anything. Either admit alt posting or just shut up since you have not even played the game yet. Once again, you assume too much. Since many of you seem to be just that dimwitted I will tell you the truth. I started off with this character. This character is my main. I use this character to make money (just because I don't run missions for money and thus have no standings doesn't make this my alt). I do have an alt, who happens to be alliance affiliated, but this character sees the most play time as it is my money maker. So yea, shut your mouth and quit assuming. And seriously, why hasn't this thread been closed yet? Just like every other thread on these boards, no one is going to change anyone's mind and all of this is just flamebait.
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2006.08.09 13:34:00 - [450] Originally by: Captain Thunk Seriously, I'm not arguing that. All I've posted is in reference to BoBs ambition to remove them entirely from the game, not just fight and destroy the alliance. The ambition to do so might be there but this doesnt make it realistic. You can kill an alliance or corp over and over but as soon as the corps or alliances break apart and mix with the existing community (not puddled in one place but all over eve) it becomes impossible to fullfill. The bob statment has to be read (as far as i understand it) "we will not tolerate goonswarm to exist in its current form". PPL quitting the game will happen either way sooner or later. Nothing you can really influence. If someone after beeing camped for 3 days decides to rather quit instead of moving to another alliance thats tough but totally up to him. If he stays, more power to him, he is a true eve player.

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