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Maurauder
Caldari
Orion's Forge
Galaxia Union
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Posted - 2006.08.05 00:19:00 -
[1]
The Caldari are the masters of missile warfare. Why in the world is the Rokh a railboat? This is not following the RPG aspect of the game at all. I waited to see what was going to be said first before I created my own thread on this to see if anyone was looking at this like I was. I don't see anything about it anywhere but that does not change the facts. This post is to wake people up and ask WHY the change in what the Caldari do best?
Lets look at the current facts:
The Scorpion has 4 launchers.
The Raven has 6 launchers...
The Rokh should have at least 6 and as many as 8 launchers. Not rails.
Awhile back there was the "huge missile nerf" that made the Caldari ships become more on par with the rest of the other racial ships in all aspects. There were a lot of flames on this but in the end even I agree that it needed to be somewhat nerfed.
With that said, people are finally getting all the new skills trained up (I am not even completed in those yet) and are starting to get the same use out of those ships now like we did then. This is a good thing and this is what the devs intended.
Why do I say this?
Why did they make the nerf to begin with? To keep them on par with the other ships. So lets look at the other racial ships and see what they specialize in (both now and with the new ships).
The Amarr have 7 beams on their Tier 1
8 beams on their Tier II & III battleships.
The Gallente can have 6 Turrets on their Tier I
7 on their Tier II and
8 on their Tier 3.
The Minmatar have 4 Turrets on their Tier I
6 on their Tier II and
8 on their Tier III
This shows me that somewhere someone seems to have forgotten about the fact that the Caldari are the masters of missiles.
But you say... "So what? I have trained up for rails for a long time for my Megathron, I can slip into the Rokh with no problems and use it well!"
I say "GOOD FOR YOU!" but I also say "THAT IS NOT WHAT RPG's are suppose to do!".
What are you talking about you say!?
Simple. I have very little trained in the gunnery skill category. I did not need to really train any skills in there at all since I was using missiles, my mail racial weapon, the reason I went Caldari, as many other Caldari have done.
To those of us that have trained for what our racial bonuses are the new Tier III ship design is worthless to us. All you will really get is the other 3 races using it more then the race that is it being designed for.
Now before all the flames start (and I really hope they donÆt) I want Tuxford to really think about this and talk to the other devs about it. This is either a huge oversite or one HUGE mistake in the making. Either way it needs to be corrected.
Thanks for your taking your time to read this as I DID wait to say it and see what came from other discussions first.
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Twilight Moon
Minmatar
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.05 00:22:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Twilight Moon on 05/08/2006 00:24:43
Did you happen to notice those wee ships like:
1) Merlin, a semi railgun frigate?
2) Cormerant, a railgun destroyer?
3) Moa, a railgun cruiser?
4) Ferox, a railgun battlecruiser?
....now....whats missing from that list, in the ship size category?
Also, maybe you failed to notice that you already have a missile specialised battleship? Its called the Raven. You don't need two of them, you talk of RPG's and how there is supposed to be a natural progression yet you fail to acknwoledge the needs of the Caldari Gunnery specced pilots.
...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
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Foulis
Minmatar
Chosen Path
Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.08.05 00:24:00 -
[3]
How about this, stop *****ing and fly your raven? No-one is forcing you to use the new bs, the raven will be a perfectly fine bs.
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Cake > Pie - Imaran
 Originally by: CCP Hammer
Boobies
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Dethis
Caldari
Eve University
The Big Blue
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Posted - 2006.08.05 00:25:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Maurauder
The Caldari are the masters of missile warfare. Why in the world is the Rokh a railboat? This is not following the RPG aspect of the game at all. I waited to see what was going to be said first before I created my own thread on this to see if anyone was looking at this like I was. I don't see anything about it anywhere but that does not change the facts. This post is to wake people up and ask WHY the change in what the Caldari do best?
Lets look at the current facts:
The Scorpion has 4 launchers.
The Raven has 6 launchers...
The Rokh should have at least 6 and as many as 8 launchers. Not rails.
Awhile back there was the "huge missile nerf" that made the Caldari ships become more on par with the rest of the other racial ships in all aspects. There were a lot of flames on this but in the end even I agree that it needed to be somewhat nerfed.
With that said, people are finally getting all the new skills trained up (I am not even completed in those yet) and are starting to get the same use out of those ships now like we did then. This is a good thing and this is what the devs intended.
Why do I say this?
Why did they make the nerf to begin with? To keep them on par with the other ships. So lets look at the other racial ships and see what they specialize in (both now and with the new ships).
The Amarr have 7 beams on their Tier 1
8 beams on their Tier II & III battleships.
The Gallente can have 6 Turrets on their Tier I
7 on their Tier II and
8 on their Tier 3.
The Minmatar have 4 Turrets on their Tier I
6 on their Tier II and
8 on their Tier III
This shows me that somewhere someone seems to have forgotten about the fact that the Caldari are the masters of missiles.
But you say... "So what? I have trained up for rails for a long time for my Megathron, I can slip into the Rokh with no problems and use it well!"
I say "GOOD FOR YOU!" but I also say "THAT IS NOT WHAT RPG's are suppose to do!".
What are you talking about you say!?
Simple. I have very little trained in the gunnery skill category. I did not need to really train any skills in there at all since I was using missiles, my mail racial weapon, the reason I went Caldari, as many other Caldari have done.
To those of us that have trained for what our racial bonuses are the new Tier III ship design is worthless to us. All you will really get is the other 3 races using it more then the race that is it being designed for.
Now before all the flames start (and I really hope they donÆt) I want Tuxford to really think about this and talk to the other devs about it. This is either a huge oversite or one HUGE mistake in the making. Either way it needs to be corrected.
Thanks for your taking your time to read this as I DID wait to say it and see what came from other discussions first.
Cause caldari have been whining for a fleet ship for a while
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Kill em all and let god sort em out
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Carnye Dubro
Caldari
Legion Corporation
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Posted - 2006.08.05 00:26:00 -
[5]
Caldari do use Railguns... consider the Cormorant, the Ferox (I know it's used as a missile boat, but it's bonus is for Hybrids), the Moa, the Harpy and the Vulture... all Hybrid Turret based platforms. True, Hybrid weapons are often secondary weapons on missile based platforms but we do have Railguns in our blood too... :)
I would be totally behind your arguement if the Rokh was say a Laser Platform or an Arty Platform though...
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Pord
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Posted - 2006.08.05 00:32:00 -
[6]
im all for the rails. Bout time we got a sniper :D.
Also like stated before caldari are missile AND hybrid users not just missiles. Its your choice if u dont wanna train gunnery and frankly ur missing out! So stay in your raven and be happy I cant wait for it!
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St Dragon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.05 00:36:00 -
[7]
Ravens used to be a gunship.
Besides people like me with lots of gunnery skills would like nothing more than the option to pilot a Caldari gunship.
-----------------------------------------------
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
Mirasta
Caldari
Enigma Enterprises
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.05 00:41:00 -
[8]
Caldari are not "masters of missile warfare" there masters of range warfare Prettymuch all of there shps get a range bounous to something but they all dont get missile bounous.
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Dr Happy
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Posted - 2006.08.05 00:47:00 -
[9]
Also the scopr used to be a rail ship soo the rohk is just fixing that change that was made
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Azerrad
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Posted - 2006.08.05 00:54:00 -
[10]
The real question is why isn't the Rohk a split hardpoint design like the Merlin, Moa and Ferox.
6 Turrets/4 Missles would follow the pattern. 8 Turrets would not.
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Dethis
Caldari
Eve University
The Big Blue
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Posted - 2006.08.05 01:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Azerrad
The real question is why isn't the Rohk a split hardpoint design like the Merlin, Moa and Ferox.
6 Turrets/4 Missles would follow the pattern. 8 Turrets would not.
Because split weapon systems blow bag?
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Kill em all and let god sort em out
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Twilight Moon
Minmatar
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.05 01:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Azerrad
The real question is why isn't the Rohk a split hardpoint design like the Merlin, Moa and Ferox.
6 Turrets/4 Missles would follow the pattern. 8 Turrets would not.
You want to use the best sniper like some sort of gimped Typhoon?
...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
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Alekzander
Caldari
Scorn.
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Posted - 2006.08.05 01:28:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Alekzander on 05/08/2006 01:29:57
As Dethis stated the Scorpion was origionally a railgun ship (and still technically is with a 4/4 layout and 6 slots) but it had a 10% optimal bonus instead of the EW bonus. The Raven has 6 missile bays, it does crazy enough damage as it is, the CNR has 7 missile slots, which is insane, its rediculous, I own a torp raven, use t2 torps and I KNOW an 8 missile slot ship would be rediculously overpowered and ppl would scream for another nerf. Do you really want ANOTHER nerf to missiles?
Get a CNR, it has 7 missile slots. The Rohk is the progression of the Merlin, Cormorant, Moa, Ferox rail line. The Raven is the progression of the missile line with the Kestrel, Caracal, Ferox (again cause it has a 5/5 layout) and the new teir 2 BC which is designed to use missiles instead of guns. The Scorpion sits on the EW line with the Griffin and Blackbird.
Just some numbers to prove why an 8 missile slot ship would be overpowered... My raven, gets 712.9 damage with standard t1 torps on structure, with a refire of 8.72. Thats 81 dps / launcher. With 6 its 486 raw dps, 7 is 561, and 8 is 648. Not extrodinarily much when you look at the DPS but volley damage is a diffrent story. With 6, you hit for (this is raw damage remeber, not on something with resists) 4277.4, with 7, 4990.3 and with 8, 5703.2.
On something with 50% resists, I would do ~2350 damage every 8.72 seconds. That is untankable, not even a dual armor rep will tank that. Even getting resists up to 80%--and thats not easy w/o gimping your ability to return damage--or spending HUGE wads of isk on faction mods, would allow you to tank an 8 missile slot ship. Its the fact that missiles ALWAYS hit, that makes that many bays overpowered.
THATS why we have a railgun boat and not a missile boat.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.08.05 01:30:00 -
[14]
becuase it is a teir 3 ship
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The MelonMan
Caldari
Tactical Enterprise Group LTD
The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2006.08.05 01:53:00 -
[15]
Edited by: The MelonMan on 05/08/2006 01:54:28
i spent like 10 mins writing a responce to that and it doesnt post w/e you are wrong.
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Xoduse
Beasts of Burden
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.05 01:55:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Xoduse on 05/08/2006 01:55:52
Well you already have a missile boat BS and nothing is stopping you from fitting blasters to the Rokh so whats your argument? As said earlier, heavily gunnery oriented Caldari guys need a gunboat.
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Kill the MWD cap penalty! |
Hydrian Alante
The Loot Company
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Posted - 2006.08.05 01:59:00 -
[17]
Can someone tell me please that this thread is just a bad joke?
Why are so many Cladari Players just so totally stupid?
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Cohkka
LoneWolf Mining
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.08.05 02:08:00 -
[18]
The entire post didn't make sense at all.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
welsh wizard
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Posted - 2006.08.05 02:18:00 -
[19]
Railguns are primarily a Caldari weapon and so are missiles.
Thats what I've been led to believe with regards to the games back story.
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welsh wizard
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Posted - 2006.08.05 02:20:00 -
[20]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 05/08/2006 02:20:37
Originally by: welsh wizard
Railguns are primarily a Caldari weapon and so are missiles.
Thats what I've been led to believe with regards to the games back story.
Originally by: Azerrad
The real question is why isn't the Rohk a split hardpoint design like the Merlin, Moa and Ferox.
6 Turrets/4 Missles would follow the pattern. 8 Turrets would not.
Caldari have been missing one thing since before Exodus. A ship which deals respectable dps at range.
It's been a long time coming.
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Karl Shade
FinFleet
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.05 02:28:00 -
[21]
So basically the Rokh should be a Railboat because you have little to no SP in missiles. Makes perfect sense I suppose.
Oh and as regards background, you¦re wrong.
-
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welsh wizard
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Posted - 2006.08.05 02:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Karl Shade
So basically the Rokh should be a Railboat because you have little to no SP in missiles. Makes perfect sense I suppose.
Oh and as regards background, you¦re wrong.
Who are you replying to? The op post would indicate he has points in missiles, not gunnery...?
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Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.08.05 02:35:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Karl Shade
So basically the Rokh should be a Railboat because you have little to no SP in missiles. Makes perfect sense I suppose.
Oh and as regards background, you¦re wrong.
The rokh should be a railboat becuase All Caldari teir 3 ships are gunboats. (merlin/moa) Aditionaly, the destroyer and Battlecruiser are gunboats.
Come to think of it lets list the tech I missle boats:
Kestrel, Caracal, Raven.
Lets list the Tech I Caldari Gunships now:
Merlin, Moa, Cormorat, Ferox.
If Caldari are missle specialist, why do they have more gunships than Missleboats?
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Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari
Gilead's Bullet
Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.08.05 03:16:00 -
[24]
Marauder, you're wrong in so many ways that I couldn't even figure out where to begin answering you.
Then I realized the best solution is to just direct you HERE.
Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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Darkrydar
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.05 03:23:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Karl Shade
So basically the Rokh should be a Railboat because you have little to no SP in missiles. Makes perfect sense I suppose.
Oh and as regards background, you¦re wrong.
The raven use to get a hybrid range bonus....
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Dr Happy
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Posted - 2006.08.05 03:38:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Hydrian Alante
Can someone tell me please that this thread is just a bad joke?
Why are so many Cladari Players just so totally stupid?
because there soo god dmn many of them you gonan get unlucky
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.08.05 05:00:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Maurauder
*snip*
You are clueless. with the exception of BCs, all the highest teir Caldari ships are railboats (ok so merlin and kestrel tie).
Caldari are Rails and Missiles.
Gallente are Blasters and Drones.
Amarr are Lasers and something.
Minmatar are target painters and energy x-fer arrays.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.08.05 05:03:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Azerrad
The real question is why isn't the Rohk a split hardpoint design like the Merlin, Moa and Ferox.
6 Turrets/4 Missles would follow the pattern. 8 Turrets would not.
Because they don't want a ship with 20k+ shields passive tanking lvl 4s like a Ferox does to lvl 3s (and in some cases, level 4s).
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murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.08.05 05:05:00 -
[29]
To the OP: why is the Rokh a railboat? To make all the ***** ass Caldari missile jerks like yourself whine while the Gallente guys kick your ass with it for the three months it's going to take you to train up T2 large guns.
Because I said so...
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Dakhan
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Posted - 2006.08.05 05:07:00 -
[30]
Anyone else notice that the original poster hasn't posted since?
He's just trying to stir a response. I mean you can't please everyone all the time but the majority is definately for it being a rail boat (me included). How about we leave it at that and leave the whiners/trolls/stirrers/misfits of evolution to their own views? 
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