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Why is the Rokh a railboat?

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DrEiak Amarr IONSTAR Vox Imperium	Posted - 2006.08.05 07:27:00 - [31] Quote: Why is the Rokh a railboat? Why not?
Aloysius Knight Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.05 08:01:00 - [32] Originally by: DrEiak Quote: Why is the Rokh a railboat? Why not? more importantly why does it get 7 mids?
Electric Cucumber Amarr Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.08.05 08:34:00 - [33] where's Marauder gone?
Jadeon Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.05 10:29:00 - [34] Making the Tier 3 Caldari BS a gun boat was the best favor that Devs could have done for the Caldari Pilots. So stop complaining and start training those gunnery skills. You already have the Raven which can practically do anything. Now you also have a decent fleet combat ship.
Lt Angus Caldari Sigma-Defect	Posted - 2006.08.05 11:13:00 - [35] Real Caldari use rails
Logan Xerxes Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.05 12:57:00 - [36] Originally by: Aloysius Knight Originally by: DrEiak Quote: Why is the Rokh a railboat? Why not? more importantly why does it get 7 mids? Because caldari use quantum computers instead of minmatar's soldered copper switchboards "Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confusion." -Sun Tzu
ThaMa Gebir Gallente Raddick Explorations Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.05 13:11:00 - [37] Originally by: Pord im all for the rails. Bout time we got a sniper :D. Also like stated before caldari are missile AND hybrid users not just missiles. Its your choice if u dont wanna train gunnery and frankly ur missing out! So stay in your raven and be happy I cant wait for it! ROFL. Soooo funny old friend. But then what you say is true, about time caldari had a rail boat and suffered the same as rail users.
MECHcore Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.05 13:22:00 - [38] Edited by: MECHcore on 05/08/2006 13:23:09 Just like the blastereagle that works very good , im gonna put blasters on meh rokh
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2006.08.05 13:57:00 - [39] OP hasn't replied because only clueless people will support him... I guess 7 mids looks nasty but they are needed... Sure we can use lots of EW or tank, but then we are gonna hit nothing... Besides I think EW will be nerfed soon so only EW ships will be very efficient with them. Pinky
Reincarnator Amarr Brute Force Missions inc	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:28:00 - [40] Edited by: Reincarnator on 05/08/2006 14:28:56 Originally by: Pord im all for the rails. Bout time we got a sniper :D. Also like stated before caldari are missile AND hybrid users not just missiles. Its your choice if u dont wanna train gunnery and frankly ur missing out! So stay in your raven and be happy I cant wait for it! http://www.blackpitchpress.com/links/troll.jpg If thats your sig, i believe its WAY too big and if thats part of the message, werent we not supposed to post images? Quote: You will never quote this sig! QFT
ChalSto The Galactic Empire Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.05 16:08:00 - [41] Originally by: murder one To the OP: why is the Rokh a railboat? To make all the ***** ass Caldari missile jerks like yourself whine while the Gallente guys kick your ass with it for the three months it's going to take you to train up T2 large guns. Me? I¦m just another guy in Local......but better u pay attention.....
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.05 16:26:00 - [42] Originally by: MECHcore Edited by: MECHcore on 05/08/2006 13:23:09 Just like the blastereagle that works very good , im gonna put blasters on meh rokh Ohh yeah ----------------------------------------------- Knowing all, when all is unknown.
Ereph Valkyrja	Posted - 2006.08.05 16:47:00 - [43] I'll tell you why the Rokh is a railboat. If they'd make the Rokh a tier 3 missile boat, it would just be a uber raven - The raven would become obsolete. However, adding a tier 3 railboat means the Raven still reigns supreme as lord of all things missile, while you Caldari get a new toy to play with. Also, Caldari have been missing a Rail battleship for a while now - Every level of caldari ships has a railboat (Merlin, Cormorant, Moa, Ferox), but not a BS. This is wrong, and needs fixing.
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.08.05 17:00:00 - [44] In the background (short story - Ruthless) the backbone of the Caldari fleet is a Lai Dai's Railgun boat (Scorpion). The Raven was Ishukone's super sikrit response to that with its whiz-bang missiles.... Quote: Lai Dai had its Scorpion, long the backbone of the Caldari Navy and symbol of Caldari might in space. Ishukone would have to do better than them to establish real credibility. A secret project was born deep in the R&D department of Ishukone, unknown even to Les and the other executive crony ôYes-menö that he surrounded himself with. Its codename: ôRavenö. So having Lai Dai upping the ante and making a more powerful Railgun platform makes perfect sense. From a game design perspective it makes sense given the Moa... ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Xoduse Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.05 17:28:00 - [45] Also, like others have said Caldari will finally be useful as damage dealers in fleet combat. A missile boat Rokh would just be an bigger raven for pvp, and would put all missions on easy mode tbh. --------------------- MWDs Need Help.
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari Gilead's Bullet Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.08.05 18:31:00 - [46] Originally by: Aloysius Knight More importantly why does it get 7 mids? Why do the Typhoon, Megathron, and Apoc get 7 lowslots? Oh yeah, because it uses those slots to tank. Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Epro	Posted - 2006.08.05 18:37:00 - [47] Originally by: Azerrad The real question is why isn't the Rohk a split hardpoint design like the Merlin, Moa and Ferox. 6 Turrets/4 Missles would follow the pattern. 8 Turrets would not. It would just be a tier 3 typhoon then... I like the idea of rails for Caldari, its not like they are being screwed out of a tier 3 BS either tbh.
Scoundrelus The Black Fleet Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.05 19:17:00 - [48] Originally by: Maurauder Simple. I have very little trained in the gunnery skill category. I did not need to really train any skills in there at all since I was using missiles, my mail racial weapon, the reason I went Caldari, as many other Caldari have done. I think that this quote is what this thread is all about. ===============================================
Vincent Gaines	Posted - 2006.08.05 20:00:00 - [49] Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 05/08/2006 20:00:59 Originally by: Scoundrelus Originally by: Maurauder Simple. I have very little trained in the gunnery skill category. I did not need to really train any skills in there at all since I was using missiles, my mail racial weapon, the reason I went Caldari, as many other Caldari have done. I think that this quote is what this thread is all about. exactly, he's only upset because he hasn't trained in gunnery and did what 90% of caldari pilots do- train only in missile skills without paying attention to the (quoting from the OP) RPG element that shows clearly that Caldari use missiles AND rails, and in fact specialize in rails. I fell under the same trap, but once I heard the first mention that the Rokh was to be a gunboat, I realized that 1) Finally Caldari get an instadamage battleship 2) Finally Caldari have a ship that not every noob will be flying 3) Finally there will be a useful Caldari battleship in fleet battles other than having the primary Scorpion If you have a crap-ton of missile skills, great. Fly your Raven or CNR with 6-7 launchers. That ship excels at it. But let those that took the time to train gunnery have a useful ship without having to fly another race.
Xoduse Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.05 21:24:00 - [50] One other thing you have overlooked (while it does necessarily apply to the battleships) is the layout of the t2 caldari ships. Hawk/Harpy - Missiles/Rails , Eagle/Cerberus - Missiles/Rails, and now Raven/Rokh - Missiles/Rails. There was a strong railgun element in every ship class except BS until now. --------------------- http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=369827Help the MWDs[/ur
Nidhoggur	Posted - 2006.08.05 21:36:00 - [51] Originally by: Maurauder Why in the world is the Rokh a railboat? Lets look at the current facts: The Scorpion has 4 launchers. The Raven has 6 launchers... Congratulations, you've answered your own question.
Azerrad	Posted - 2006.08.05 21:38:00 - [52] Originally by: Nidhoggur Originally by: Maurauder Why in the world is the Rokh a railboat? Lets look at the current facts: The Scorpion has 4 launchers. The Raven has 6 launchers... Congratulations, you've answered your own question. Using that logic, where is the Minmatar missleboat and the Amarr drone boat?
Alekzander Caldari Scorn.	Posted - 2006.08.05 21:48:00 - [53] Originally by: Azerrad Originally by: Nidhoggur Originally by: Maurauder Why in the world is the Rokh a railboat? Lets look at the current facts: The Scorpion has 4 launchers. The Raven has 6 launchers... Congratulations, you've answered your own question. Using that logic, where is the Minmatar missleboat and the Amarr drone boat? The minmatar Missile boat was cancled in production on the reason that it didnt have enough VW Bus launchers and the Amarr drone carrier prototype was deemed blasphemous by a drunken Amarrian priest, so they couldn't build any.
Maurauder Caldari Orion's Forge Galaxia Union	Posted - 2006.08.07 08:22:00 - [54] Lots of people replied to this thread yet not a single one of you could even look at the current facts for the battleships. Here the are AGAIN. Amarr Tier 1: Armageddon have 7 beams Tier 2: Apoc has 8 beams Tier 3: Abaddon has 8 beams (consistent) Gallente Tier 1: Dominix has 6 turrets Tier 2: Megathron has 7 turrets Tier 3: Hyperion has 8 turrets (consistent) Minmatar Tier 1: Typhoon have 4 Turrets Tier 2: Tempest has 6 Turrets Tier 3: Maelstrom has 8 Turrets (consistent) Caldari Tier 1: The Scorpion has 4 launchers. Tier 2: The Raven has 6 launchers. Tier 3: The Rokh has 8 rails (NOT CONSISTENT!) Now without flaming or telling me frigates do this and cruisers do that and TRY to troll the thread off of what I posted about, please stay on topic. With what I posted above, and not saying why there should be X number of mid or low slots, the current Tier 1, 2 & 3 battleships are progressing in order except for the Caldari. Things to note: I am not arguing that the Caldari do not need a railship. I am trying to say HEY your not staying consistant here. Why everyone has to flame and go on the way they have in this thread so far is way out of line. I brought up some very good points and it is only right to not only hear from other players but to hear from Tuxford on this as well since he is the one that has said so much on the other threads about other Tier 3 ships.
Aloysius Knight Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.07 08:35:00 - [55] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Originally by: Aloysius Knight More importantly why does it get 7 mids? Why do the Typhoon, Megathron, and Apoc get 7 lowslots? Oh yeah, because it uses those slots to tank. ohhh so by that logic the maelstorm should get 7 as well seeing how its a "Sheild tanking arty boat"
Laythun Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.08.07 08:44:00 - [56] Stop comparing apples and oranges, and ignoring what everyone else is trying to tell you. Caldari PRIMARILY use missiles/Rails so its a logical step. that is all, consistency with the other races is not necessary, its consistent with the precursor ships i.e frigs,cruisers and Battlecruisers. Why cant you understand that? *See You In Space Cowboy*
Hugh Ruka Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.07 08:46:00 - [57] Originally by: Maurauder Lots of people replied to this thread yet not a single one of you could even look at the current facts for the battleships. Here the are AGAIN. Amarr Tier 1: Armageddon have 7 beams Tier 2: Apoc has 8 beams Tier 3: Abaddon has 8 beams (consistent) Gallente Tier 1: Dominix has 6 turrets Tier 2: Megathron has 7 turrets Tier 3: Hyperion has 8 turrets (consistent) Minmatar Tier 1: Typhoon have 4 Turrets Tier 2: Tempest has 6 Turrets Tier 3: Maelstrom has 8 Turrets (consistent) Caldari Tier 1: The Scorpion has 4 launchers. Tier 2: The Raven has 6 launchers. Tier 3: The Rokh has 8 rails (NOT CONSISTENT!) Now without flaming or telling me frigates do this and cruisers do that and TRY to troll the thread off of what I posted about, please stay on topic. With what I posted above, and not saying why there should be X number of mid or low slots, the current Tier 1, 2 & 3 battleships are progressing in order except for the Caldari. Things to note: I am not arguing that the Caldari do not need a railship. I am trying to say HEY your not staying consistant here. Why everyone has to flame and go on the way they have in this thread so far is way out of line. I brought up some very good points and it is only right to not only hear from other players but to hear from Tuxford on this as well since he is the one that has said so much on the other threads about other Tier 3 ships. lol, this one got me ... 1. Dominix has the largest drone bay in Eve, Megathron has the largest non-drone ship dron bay afaik (maybe typhoon has larger, too lazy to look up), so why is the Hyperion NOT a drone ship ? 2. Scorpion has 4 turret hardpoints, Raven has 4 turret hardpoints ... It is only YOUR problem that you do not have hybrids trained up. Use your Raven and be happy about it. I'll fit blasters on Rokh and show the Gallente scum how a proper blaster ship looks like :-)) ------------------------------ at least fit ECCM before you start crying how overpowered ECM is.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.07 08:48:00 - [58] Originally by: Maurauder Lots of people replied to this thread yet not a single one of you could even look at the current facts for the battleships. Here the are AGAIN. Amarr Tier 1: Armageddon has 7 beams Tier 2: Apoc has 8 beams, 4 Launchers Tier 3: Abaddon has 8 beams Gallente Tier 1: Dominix has 6 turrets Tier 2: Megathron has 7 turrets, 2 Launchers Tier 3: Hyperion has 8 turrets Minmatar Tier 1: Typhoon has 4 Turrets, 4 Launchers Tier 2: Tempest has 6 Turrets, 4 Launchers Tier 3: Maelstrom has 8 Turrets, 2 Launchers? Caldari Tier 1: The Scorpion has 4 Turrets, 4 launchers. Tier 2: The Raven has 4 Turrets, 6 launchers. Tier 3: The Rokh has 8 rails, 4 launchers There's some errors up there. Fixes in bold. Consistency and symmetry isn't exactly the same thing. Neither are good for game balance, but rather tools for the methodical mind. Your argument is based on the principle that new things must conform to old concepts and that newer items of the same category must be improved versions of the old with the unspoken understanding that costs would still justify the older versions as viable. This is not how things work. Additionally, you cannot argue symmetry if you limit the comparison to an environment that will only prove your point. Yes, you are right. In your own limited space. You are wrong in the grand scheme of things. Even when using your own flawed argumentation for a need of symmetry. Note that consistency is not the same as symmetry, and that it is symmetry that you are trying to argue. Consistency would take much more store into background story. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.07 09:00:00 - [59] Originally by: Audri Fisher Originally by: Karl Shade So basically the Rokh should be a Railboat because you have little to no SP in missiles. Makes perfect sense I suppose. Oh and as regards background, you¦re wrong. The rokh should be a railboat becuase All Caldari teir 3 ships are gunboats. (merlin/moa) Aditionaly, the destroyer and Battlecruiser are gunboats. Come to think of it lets list the tech I missle boats: Kestrel, Caracal, Raven. Lets list the Tech I Caldari Gunships now: Merlin, Moa, Cormorat, Ferox. If Caldari are missle specialist, why do they have more gunships than Missleboats? To be fair, there's another BC due to fill that 'hole' and a missile destroyer wouldn't really fit. But your point is a good one - there's as many rail based caldari ships as missile, and the only reason you don't see many moas/feroxes about is quite simply because there isn't a rail battleship. (Much as I love the scorpion, it's only barely a battleship. It can fit BS guns, but not many, and not with damage). So to answer the OP. Just because they're neglected, doesn't mean Caldari don't do rails. In fact, I know when I started I didn't really focus on rails _because_ there was no rail battleship to aim for. And if nothing else, surely Caldari need a decent mining BS at last ... ;p
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.07 09:08:00 - [60] Originally by: murder one To the OP: why is the Rokh a railboat? To make all the ***** ass Caldari missile jerks like yourself whine while the Gallente guys kick your ass with it for the three months it's going to take you to train up T2 large guns. And so the Caldari finally notice that Javelin railgun ammo has a _shield_ penalty, which is going to blow goats when fitted to a Rohk, and lead to a new round of 'OMG THIS SUCKS' whining.

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