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Nevil Oscillator 0	Posted - 2014.09.20 18:59:00 - [1] - Quote I'm a newish player (About 6 months or so) who read the piece about security status in EVElopedia and as this is a New citizen Q&A thread, I will stick to clarifying a few points by asking questions. When you take on a mission from an agent it usually consists of entering a mission room via an acceleration gate and confronting various enemy space ships that belong to the big red cross on my screen faction. So I was wondering if these NPC ships are following the same rules as everyone else ? For instance some ships will not fire at you until you fire at them, this would be a similar situation to a player with a -5 security status because if they fire at you first they get Concorded. Pirate Factions might automatically have a low security status but not all missions are against pirates. Faction Navy Ship cannot get Concorded so most of this is adding up. See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it.
Forest Archer Pandora Sphere Disavowed. 153	Posted - 2014.09.20 19:04:00 - [2] - Quote This can be confusing because it is lore based, it Eve we are known as capsules demi gods per se. Concord exists to reign in unruly ca psuleers. Boca found in high sec are not policed by concord so no they are not bound by the same rules. Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if your in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. Pub Channel: Lost Souls Trading Post
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 5034	Posted - 2014.09.20 19:14:00 - [3] - Quote Concord has no concern for mortals (npc's), they are very simply a punative(important word that.), omnipotent organization concerned with enforcing a cost upon capsulier aggression within empire territory. That's all they do. =]I[=
Nevil Oscillator 0	Posted - 2014.09.20 19:28:00 - [4] - Quote So they only react to PVP agression ? You can shoot convoys, customs officers, station guns and the like without Concord arriving. But does this reduce your security status? See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it.
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4490	Posted - 2014.09.20 19:52:00 - [5] - Quote Nevil Oscillator wrote: So they only react to PVP agression ? You can shoot convoys, customs officers, station guns and the like without Concord arriving. But does this reduce your security status? First things first: Station guns =/= CONCORD Faction Navy =/= CONCORD (You can outrun and are allowed to outrun Faction Navy whereas doing it to CONCORD (Nearly ompossible) is an exploit and then the CONCORD boss (aka CCP) will punish you). Custom officers =/= CONCORD. Basically anything that doesnt say CONCORD isnt concord. Shooting an NPC hauler will not spawn CONCORD (CONCORD only responds to player vs player violence) but it will make gate/station guns and faction policd shoot you. You will also suffer a faction standing hit from doing so. Personal channel: *Crazy Dutch Guy* Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road
Nevil Oscillator 0	Posted - 2014.09.20 20:12:00 - [6] - Quote Examples of criminal offenses: Destroying a law enforcement craft Pod Killing civilians Destroying civilian craft Attacking law enforcement craft Attacking civilian craft I'm assuming from this that Empire Faction Navy and Pirate Faction ships do not count as civilian ? See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it.
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4491	Posted - 2014.09.20 20:25:00 - [7] - Quote Nevil Oscillator wrote: Examples of criminal offenses: Destroying a law enforcement craft Pod Killing civilians Destroying civilian craft Attacking law enforcement craft Attacking civilian craft I'm assuming from this that Empire Faction Navy and Pirate Faction ships do not count as civilian ? Nope. They are military. Personal channel: *Crazy Dutch Guy* Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road
Nevil Oscillator 0	Posted - 2014.09.20 21:00:00 - [8] - Quote J'Poll wrote: Nope. They are military. As far as I know, Concord applies the same rules for aggression between a FW player and a non FW player. There Although I'm not sure you can tell if a ship is a FW player anyway without being one yourself. This part about enlisted corporations I found slightly interesting. Having container contents stolen triggers a flag to the whole corporation for 15 minutes. So does that not happen with normal corporations ? See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it.
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 5035	Posted - 2014.09.20 21:29:00 - [9] - Quote fyi =]I[=
voetius Quiet Days in Clichy 269	Posted - 2014.09.20 21:33:00 - [10] - Quote Nevil Oscillator wrote: Having container contents stolen triggers a flag to the whole corporation for 15 minutes. So does that not happen with normal corporations ? Some of the Evelopedia is out of date and badly needs fixing. You seem to be referring to what used to be called "can flipping" but this has been superceded by the newer Crimewatch mechanics and suspect status, see here : https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Crimewatch
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 6141	Posted - 2014.09.20 22:28:00 - [11] - Quote Nevil Oscillator wrote: So I was wondering if these NPC ships are following the same [high-sec] rules as everyone else ? The aggression rules only apply between players. NPCs pretty much follow their own set of rules. Nevil Oscillator wrote: For instance some ships will not fire at you until you fire at them, this would be a similar situation to a player with a -5 security status because if they fire at you first they get Concorded. Pirate Factions might automatically have a low security status but not all missions are against pirates. Faction Navy Ship cannot get Concorded so most of this is adding up. Okay... you are mixing everything up. There are 3 NPC "police" forces and Stargate/Station guns... - CONCORD: they will only attack you if you meet one or more of the following conditions... ------------------- you shoot THEM or "illegally" attack another PLAYER ------------------- you have a "criminal status" timer. NOTE: If these ships attack you, you cannot kill/evade them... doing so is considered an exploit and will result in a ban. - Faction Police: they will only attack you if you meet one or more the following conditions... ------------------- your security status is below -5.0 ------------------- your faction status (for the local empire) is below -5.0 ------------------- you shoot THEM or "illegally" attack another PLAYER ------------------- you shoot an NPC "convoy" or "trade ship" (not pirate) ------------------- you have a "criminal status" timer. - Faction Navy: they will only attack you if you meet one or more the following conditions... ------------------- you are in Faction Warfare and are hostile to the local empire ------------------- you shoot THEM - Gate/Station Guns: they will only attack you if you meet one or more the following conditions... ------------------- you shoot THEM or "illegally" attack another PLAYER All other NPCs that do not fall into the previous categories will either be "shoot first ask questions later" or "won't shoot first" mentalities. Either way... you can shoot at them with impunity. Quote: As far as I know, Concord applies the same rules for aggression between a FW player and a non FW player. There Although I'm not sure you can tell if a ship is a FW player anyway without being one yourself. Correct. Being in Faction Warfare is no different than being at war (with NPC back-up in one's high-sec space). All security mechanics still apply. You can check their corporation/alliance tab to see if they are in Faction Warfare and then "flag" the whole organization. Outside of this, there is no ID marker for FW people to people outside of FW. Quote: This part about enlisted corporations I found slightly interesting. Having container contents stolen triggers a flag to the whole corporation for 15 minutes. So does that not happen with normal corporations ? Old mechanic. It's called "can flipping." It was changed so that now a person who steals from a container becomes flagged to everyone in space... not just to a single corporation. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
Nevil Oscillator 0	Posted - 2014.09.20 23:17:00 - [12] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: - Faction Navy: they will only attack you if you meet one or more the following conditions... ------------------- you are in Faction Warfare and are hostile to the local empire ------------------- you shoot THEM . They will attack -5 faction standing too. So if you are in a corp or a fleet, you will presumably pick up some of the heat for the actions of other members ? See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 6142	Posted - 2014.09.20 23:51:00 - [13] - Quote No... the Navy does not care about standings (at least... that has been my experience). Being in a corp will only affect you if the whole corp is involved in something (see: war declaration or Faction Warfare). Fleets do not affect anything besides fleet based bonuses and who you can warp to. All other mechanics apply as they normally do per the individual. Some examples: - you are in a corporation/fleet with someone. They have bad security status and have just attacked another player in high-sec... resulting in CONCORD blowing up their ship. You will not be affected by this in any way, shape, or form. - you are in a corporation/fleet with someone.. You have very high faction standings and the other person has very bad faction standings. When that person tries to enter high security space the Faction Police tries to kill him/her. However, when you enter that high-sec space nothing will happen. Even if you both enter at the same time. There is an *exception* to this: using remote assistance modules. Using things like Remote Repairs on a person who has "problems" (bad sec-status or faction standings) as they are experiencing the penalties will result in you gaining a timer and inheriting the "problems" for the duration of the timer. Modifying the example from above: You are in a corporation/fleet with someone.. You have very high faction standings and the other person has very bad faction standings. When that person tries to enter high security space the Faction Police tries to kill him/her. However, when you enter that high-sec space nothing will happen. You try to save that corp/fleet mate using a remote repair module... making you an enemy of the Faction Police until the timer expires (which it won't until you stop repping and hide for a few minutes). Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
Nevil Oscillator 0	Posted - 2014.09.21 00:22:00 - [14] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: No... the Navy does not care about standings (at least... that has been my experience). I have had faction forces issue warnings and follow me into a mission room to destroy my ship. Not sure if it is Navy or police but it was definitely Fleet Admiral something. See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 6143	Posted - 2014.09.21 02:36:00 - [15] - Quote All the the NPC forces I listed above are considered "military"... CONCORD, Faction Police, Faction Navy. Understand that "military" is a bit of a misnomer in this game as pretty much everything is considered as such (i.e. there are few, if any, actual "civilians" in this game)... even industrial and mining ships are forces/aides of war in some fashion. But as far as I know, it is only the Faction Police that are concerned about faction standing. Faction Navy are the forces specifically rallied against "enemy" Faction Warfare players. edit: one last thing... read the mission briefings. If you encounter NPCs belonging to a specific empire faction in a mission and have fulfilled none of the above conditions I listed in my previous post then those NPCs are no different from your average pirate NPC... except that they give no bounty and exact a fairly nasty standings hit when you kill them (which only becomes a problem over time as your faction standings drop). Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4491	Posted - 2014.09.21 02:37:00 - [16] - Quote Nevil Oscillator wrote: J'Poll wrote: Nope. They are military. As far as I know, Concord applies the same rules for aggression between a FW player and a non FW player. There Although I'm not sure you can tell if a ship is a FW player anyway without being one yourself. This part about enlisted corporations I found slightly interesting. Having container contents stolen triggers a flag to the whole corporation for 15 minutes. So does that not happen with normal corporations ? Fw vs non FW....no ** captaim obvious as that is just the plain simple rule... unprovoked attack = CONCORD. Yes it is easy to spot even when not in FW....Right click show info. Clearly states what corp/alliance AND if in FW for said player. And wrong on the container stealing = corp agression. 2011 wants their Crimewatch 1.0 back. Maybe you should go and read a bit about Crimewatch 2.0 Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road**
Nevil Oscillator 0	Posted - 2014.09.21 03:25:00 - [17] - Quote J'Poll wrote: Yes it is easy to spot even when not in FW....Right click show info. Clearly states what corp/alliance AND if in FW for said player. And wrong on the container stealing = corp agression. Well crimewatch says you get a suspect flag for container stealing but that bit about corp aggression was copied and pasted from here FW I guess the suspect flag does make that corp rule redundant But Anyway, show info is for people who are going to spend more than a second deciding if they are going to shoot. Target might be gone by the time you've done that. See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it.
Dartiot Geherrat Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2014.09.21 04:15:00 - [18] - Quote Nevil Oscillator wrote: But Anyway, show info is for people who are going to spend more than a second deciding if they are going to shoot. Target might be gone by the time you've done that. If you're not enlisted in a militia yourself, it doesn't really matter. They're just normal players to you. If you are enlisted, legal targets are clearly marked, much like criminals, suspects and wardec targets.
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4491	Posted - 2014.09.21 11:52:00 - [19] - Quote Nevil Oscillator wrote: J'Poll wrote: Yes it is easy to spot even when not in FW....Right click show info. Clearly states what corp/alliance AND if in FW for said player. And wrong on the container stealing = corp agression. Well crimewatch says you get a suspect flag for container stealing but that bit about corp aggression was copied and pasted from here FW I guess the suspect flag does make that corp rule redundant But Anyway, show info is for people who are going to spend more than a second deciding if they are going to shoot. Target might be gone by the time you've done that. Really. You base your assumptions on a WIKI. Rule 1 - take wiki info with grain of salt. 99,9% of the EVE wiki is horribly outdated. Personal channel: *Crazy Dutch Guy* Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road
Nevil Oscillator 0	Posted - 2014.09.21 15:01:00 - [20] - Quote J'Poll wrote: Your problem is a non existing one and thus require no fixing. [/quote] I don't recall mentioning a problem, I'm just clarifying the information, thanks for your input See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it.
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4499	Posted - 2014.09.21 15:09:00 - [21] - Quote Nevil Oscillator wrote: J'Poll wrote: Your problem is a non existing one and thus require no fixing. I don't recall mentioning a problem, I'm just clarifying the information, thanks for your input Unless you mean my signature .. lol I meant the part you cant see if someone is in FW or not unless you are in FW yourself. It isnt a problem as it doesnt matter if he is or isnt in FW as long as you arent in it. Personal channel: *Crazy Dutch Guy* Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road
Nevil Oscillator 0	Posted - 2014.09.21 20:59:00 - [22] - Quote J'Poll wrote: It isnt a problem as it doesnt matter if he is or isnt in FW as long as you arent in it. Well that is a good question because what happens if a FW player offers to pay you X amount of ISK to go slaughter that squadron of enemy ships camping that low sec stargate ? See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it.
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4499	Posted - 2014.09.21 21:04:00 - [23] - Quote Nevil Oscillator wrote: J'Poll wrote: It isnt a problem as it doesnt matter if he is or isnt in FW as long as you arent in it. Well that is a good question because what happens if a FW player offers to pay you X amount of ISK to go slaughter that squadron of enemy ships camping that low sec stargate ? Again, it means nothing. As you will be shooting that gate camp, and again, it doesn't matter if that gate camp consists out of FW people / null sec owners / low-sec pirates or just random group of people. No matter what of the list of above is true, same rules apply - which is if you open fire first, it's seen as act of agression against a neutral towards you (unless they are legal target ergo: war targets / have a suspect or criminal flag / have -5 or lower sec status) which means gate guns will shoot you and you go suspect and thus are open to the entire gate camp to be shot at. Personal channel: *Crazy Dutch Guy* Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road
Nevil Oscillator 0	Posted - 2014.09.21 21:11:00 - [24] - Quote J'Poll wrote: which means gate guns will shoot you and you go suspect and thus are open to the entire gate camp to be shot at. Which is really bad news if you are expecting them not to fire back and were looking forward to making an easy 2 mil. See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it.
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4499	Posted - 2014.09.21 21:17:00 - [25] - Quote Nevil Oscillator wrote: J'Poll wrote: which means gate guns will shoot you and you go suspect and thus are open to the entire gate camp to be shot at. Which is really bad news if you are expecting them not to fire back and were looking forward to making an easy 2 mil. Hmz. Crimewatch 2.0 clearly states how suspect and criminal flags work. Not to mention that you have to adjust your safety settings first before you can even become suspect. Also, you attack someone, and you expect them to not fight back to defend themself....really? Personal channel: *Crazy Dutch Guy* Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road
Nevil Oscillator 0	Posted - 2014.09.21 21:39:00 - [26] - Quote J'Poll wrote: Also, you attack someone, and you expect them to not fight back to defend themself....really? Of course, low sec is full of pacifists that don't equip their ships with weapons but if I get the wrong gate and shoot the wrong faction I won't get paid. See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 6155	Posted - 2014.09.21 22:11:00 - [27] - Quote Nevil Oscillator wrote: J'Poll wrote: It isnt a problem as it doesnt matter if he is or isnt in FW as long as you arent in it. Well that is a good question because what happens if a FW player offers to pay you X amount of ISK to go slaughter that squadron of enemy ships camping that low sec stargate ? Then unless you are expecting friendly support, you can pretty much assume that everyone on that gate is hostile. And it doesn't matter if someone pays you or not... normal rules of aggression apply unless; A. You are in faction warfare yourself. B. The targets are also in faction warfare on the opposing side (which, more often than not, is only true half the time). If you ARE expecting friendly support... then you SHOULD all be in a fleet together so no friendly fire incidents occur. Nevil Oscillator wrote: Of course, low sec is full of pacifists that don't equip their ships with weapons but if I get the wrong gate and shoot the wrong faction I won't get paid. See above. If you are going into a gatecamp with no confirmed support (which you should be in a fleet with), the assumption is that everyone is hostile until proven otherwise. This is pretty much how everyone in low-sec operates by the way (see: everyone, even your allies, are potential targets... no bs). Also... you can set standings for entire corporations and alliances by adding their organization as a contact and setting them as "red." But that won't really matter when you are dealing with multiple groups working together. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4500	Posted - 2014.09.21 22:29:00 - [28] - Quote Nevil Oscillator wrote: J'Poll wrote: Also, you attack someone, and you expect them to not fight back to defend themself....really? Of course, low sec is full of pacifists that don't equip their ships with weapons but if I get the wrong gate and shoot the wrong faction I won't get paid. Will you please stop posting so many wrong things, it makes me laugh. 1. Most low-sec players do pack guns, as they are in low-sec for PvP. The only exception are the plex farmers in FW. 2. You won't get paid for FW kills if you are not in FW yourself. If you are hired by someone, that person is: A. Not the brightest person, hiring someone who hasn't got a clue about basic game agression mechanics. B. Is part of that gate camp and just baited you into "yet another easy target". And rule 1 of low-sec / null-sec...Intel = key. Have friends, fleet up, use scouts and support each other (both in amount of guns aswel as actual support). Personal channel: *Crazy Dutch Guy* Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road
Nevil Oscillator 0	Posted - 2014.09.21 23:23:00 - [29] - Quote My point was just that knowing that they are FW players and what side they are on could potentially be useful nothing more. See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it.
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4500	Posted - 2014.09.21 23:26:00 - [30] - Quote Nevil Oscillator wrote: My point was just that knowing that they are FW players and what side they are on could potentially be useful nothing more. Uhm, and that would be useful to how many other players? Near none. You can already do this...find out which corps / alliances are part of certain FW sides.. Add said ones + the NPC corp to contact list Voila, problem solved +10 (dark blue) = Caldari + 5 (light blue) = Amarr -5 (orange) = Gallente -10 (red) = Minmatar You personally have clear difference on who is part of what FW side. Personal channel: *Crazy Dutch Guy* Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road

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