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Module Tiericide. Aren't we losing something here?

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Jennifer Maxwell Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 145	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:53:00 - [1] - Quote I was rather exited for the module tiericide when I heard of the plan during Fanfest. Actually making modules with strengths and weaknesses instead of a siding scale of power is a great idea that could ad a lot of diverse fits to the world of Eve. But as far as I'm concerned, this isn't the way to go about it. Nanoelectrical Co-Processor -> Basic Co-Processor Nanomechanical CPU Enhancer -> Basic Co-Processor Quantum Co-Processor -> Basic Co-Processor Photonic CPU Enhancer -> Basic Co-Processor If you had to use a T1 missile launcher, which would you go with? An "Experimental TE-2100 Light Missile Launcher", or an "Ample Light Missile Launcher"? A "150mm 'Scout' Accelerator Cannon", or an "150mm Ample Railgun"? A "200mm Prototype Automatic Cannon", or an "200mm Ample Autocannon"? The named T1 modules just straight up sound better. Goodbye interestingly named stuff. Goodbye adding environment to the game. Hello dumbing down of the feel and spirit of what gives Eve flavor and character. I guess a rich amount of choices and an interesting complexity just isn't in the future for Eve. There's so many different ways they could have chosen to do this. I have faith that you guys can honestly do better than this. Instead of just whitewashing the entire thing , we should be diversifying. We've got races, we've got race-specific descriptions, why not tie that crap into actual mechanics? Nanomechanical is Minmatar, Photonic is Gallente, ect. Say you had four race types of modules, and a basic type. Or maybe four NPC corp modules, and one basic one. With the basic Co-Processor, you would get the straight stat bonus. With the race specific one, they're optimized for their race's ships, thereby giving you a small bonus if you use it in the race's ship, but if you fit it to a different race of ship then you get a small penalty instead. That adds flavor. That adds choices. What is being done right now is just... unimaginative. I could go into depth. Make T2 invention matter, instead of kicking out the same modules. Make it so you can actually invent instead of just replicate. Here's an idea; a corporation comes out with their own type of module, named and everything, that has much the same stats as X basic module but has certain bonuses/penalties unique to that module's blueprint. Say only one of those blueprints can exist at once, so that it actually matters who controls it and who doesn't. Think back to when one corp owned all the BPOs for covert cloaks. So as to not inundate the entire game with an absurd amount of variations, make actually getting ot the point of the that type of invention hard. Make it a skill that needs a good amount of SP to train into, such as carriers, or command ships, or black ops. Make it a specialization for the industry minded people, just like training for those types of ships is a specialization for the pvp minded people. Just think about that. How awesome would it be to know that you, as an industrialist, have a product out there that is unique to your corp? It's got your name slapped on it instead of some generic T2 launcher. An alliance builds a fit that will only work with the bonus your module gives, and now you're in demand. Not only that, but now that there's a market for your type of module, there's gonna be people out there who're trying to invent a module that does the same thing, or maybe better, to try and win your market away from you. There you go. There's just two ideas that add depth, scope and imagination to the game instead of ripping that depth away. Do both of the ideas need a lot of work to impliment, and need a lot of refinement and balancing? Sure. But lets build up and out instead of tearing down and pulling back. I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who don't care at all about what the module on their ship is named. But there's still people out there who do. Just like people who care what color their ship is, and what logo their alliance has. The lore of Eve has taken blow after blow lately. Live Events, In World news, wormhole and sleeper lore, NPC roleplayers... looks like this is just one more bit of Eve's character that's going to die.
Priscilla Project Custom Clothing Productions 77	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:55:00 - [2] - Quote I agree with the fact that names are turning ... bland. Another satisfied customer! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461 Check out the attractive miiral in her new 'Avenue' short dress! More to come soon!
Doc Fury Furious Enterprises 6529	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:01:00 - [3] - Quote The ~~dumbing-down of EVE~~ beatings shall continue until morale improves. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
Crumplecorn Eve Cluster Explorations 1406	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:05:00 - [4] - Quote I knew this thread was coming. I agree with the names getting too bland. But I'm not sure how we went from "Module Tiericide is Awesome" to "Module Tiericide is Dumbing Down The Game" based on module labels alone. As to your example of adding choices... one module for each race, and you get a penalty if you use the wrong one? Not much of a choice there. I guess that's why this game design stuff is hard. And finally a proposal to bring back the T2 BPO lotterly, as best as I can tell. You really would have been better off just posting "name too bland". [witty image] - Stream
Priscilla Project Custom Clothing Productions 78	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:13:00 - [5] - Quote Well ... blanding of the names pretty much equals "dumbing down the game" ... ... because people do not have to actually put thought into it anymore ... ... and instead can just simply "identify". The cost for this intentional removal of conscious thought: One more piece of character of the game. Who CCP should hire is a psychotherapist and a neurolinguistic programmer, really .... Another satisfied customer! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461 Check out the attractive miiral in her new 'Avenue' short dress! More to come soon!
Thead Enco Radio New Vegas 198	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:18:00 - [6] - Quote Mass exodus to Riot = Lack of creativity left at CCP. -á"A Lannister always pays his debts." -áTyrion Lannister
Jennifer Maxwell Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 146	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:21:00 - [7] - Quote Crumplecorn wrote: I knew this thread was coming. I agree with the names getting too bland. But I'm not sure how we went from "Module Tiericide is Awesome" to "Module Tiericide is Dumbing Down The Game" based on module labels alone. As to your example of adding choices... one module for each race, and you get a penalty if you use the wrong one? Not much of a choice there. I guess that's why this game design stuff is hard. And finally a proposal to bring back the T2 BPO lotterly, as best as I can tell. You really would have been better off just posting "name too bland". Eh, they were just ideas meant to add flavor. Perhaps you can only get the racial modules like that from NPC corps using LP, or perhaps they require special materials like the storyline modules do, just not as expensive as the storyline ones are. There's lots of different ways you could take the idea. As to the T2 BPO, I'm thinking more of how meta and T2 is right now, but taken a level up. Anyone can make meta 0 modules, but you need to train a bunch to produce T2. A whole lot of people can make T2, but you need to train a bunch to produce T2 Modified, or T2 Specialized, or whatever you want to call it. Like I said, just an idea. I almost didn't add that speculation part in there, but decided it was harmless enough.
Mixu Paatelainen Brutal Deluxe. 104	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:24:00 - [8] - Quote I still miss my cold-gas arcjet thrusters :(
Ocih Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums 761	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:24:00 - [9] - Quote The lore needs to be modified to support the lore. An Amarr fleet is gimped when fighting Caldari fleets because they are seen as alliance members. A Gallente fleet is gimped against Minmatar (Gallente Exp resist) because they are allies. Yet each empire has a pirate faction and if the Gallente wanted to support the Minmatar in an operation to purge Angel Cartel it would be ritual suicide. Caldari supporting Amarr in an effort to purge Blood Raiders would have a similar effect. As for true tiericide, I have little faith in the ability or willingness to do it. Tachon Beam with Gleam T2 crystal Heavy Pulse With Conflag The Tachon are 40% more PG to fit, you lose 20% dps, you lose tracking and it's all for 2km of Optimal. (10%) That's the case for all 3 of the ranged weap/ ammo in the T2. They nerf stuff so hard it becomes garbage. I'd have more faith in tiericide if there wasn't so much play style manipulation in the game. The example used was to stop 220km battleship fleets and it worked. The question is, why was there a need to stop them and why was it CCP's job to stop it?
Cartheron Crust Matari Exodus 111	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:35:00 - [10] - Quote I await the day when I can pilot a spaceship called:- Gallente Blaster Cruiser I Gallente Drone Cruiser I Gallente Damping Cruiser I Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser I Or the T2 variants. Gallente Blaster Cruiser II Gallente Drone Cruiser II Gallente Damping Cruiser II Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser II Spaceship tiericide coming soon(tm).
Subsparx Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 32	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:41:00 - [11] - Quote Cartheron Crust wrote: I await the day when I can pilot a spaceship called:- Gallente Blaster Cruiser I Gallente Drone Cruiser I Gallente Damping Cruiser I Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser I Or the T2 variants. Gallente Blaster Cruiser II Gallente Drone Cruiser II Gallente Damping Cruiser II Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser II Spaceship tiericide coming soon(tm). This is a truly frightening thought. CEO of Crimson Serpent Syndicate --áwww.crimsonserpent.com Chairman of Heiian Conglomerate --áwww.heiian.com Owner of FWC - www.factionwarfare.com
Summer Isle Autumn Industrial Enterprises 72	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:41:00 - [12] - Quote Please don't rename the "PWN" line...
Lord Ra Section XII 16	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:48:00 - [13] - Quote i dont like the mod changes
Caviar Liberta Moira. Villore Accords 689	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:49:00 - [14] - Quote Cartheron Crust wrote: I await the day when I can pilot a spaceship called:- Gallente Blaster Cruiser I Gallente Drone Cruiser I Gallente Damping Cruiser I Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser I Or the T2 variants. Gallente Blaster Cruiser II Gallente Drone Cruiser II Gallente Damping Cruiser II Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser II Spaceship tiericide coming soon(tm). Gallente Blaster Cruiser I --->Thorax Gallente Drone Cruiser I --> Vexor Gallente Damping Cruiser I --> Celestis Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser I --> Exequror Gallente Blaster Cruiser II --> Deimos Gallente Drone Cruiser II --> Ishtar Gallente Damping Cruiser II --> Lachesis Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser II --> Oneiros
Mixu Paatelainen Brutal Deluxe. 104	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:53:00 - [15] - Quote Caviar Liberta wrote: Gallente Blaster Cruiser I --->Thorax Gallente Drone Cruiser I --> Vexor Gallente Damping Cruiser I --> Celestis Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser I --> Exequror Gallente Blaster Cruiser II --> Deimos Gallente Drone Cruiser II --> Ishtar Gallente Damping Cruiser II --> Lachesis Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser II --> Oneiros Yes, that was the joke.
Dorian Wylde Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 489	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:24:00 - [16] - Quote Losing useless complexity? Losing wasted time trying to remember a thousand different names that serve no purpose? Losing modules that never get used and serve no purpose other than to confuse new players? Yeah, we are losing some things. And good riddance. These 'the old ways are better because I shouldn't have to adapt!" threads are really getting tiresome and pathetic. There is no choice in the current system. All they're doing is making the market interface easier to sort through.
Hicksimus Torgue 327	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:32:00 - [17] - Quote Can't tell if thread is full of really old people or trolls. Do you have it?
Icarus Able Revenant Tactical 485	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:37:00 - [18] - Quote When they first mentioned this i understood it as they would make all the named modules useful or at least different in some way, rather than the meta 4 just being plain better in every way. That would be awesome. This just is kinda rubbish.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 455	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:25:00 - [19] - Quote I really like the concept of how they're doing away with the "named" meta levels, so that all named items will have some usefulness. This stuff about consolidating the names though just smacks of 1984 NewSpeak though. Double plus bad. CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook. I want to create content, not become content.
Jennifer Maxwell Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 148	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:27:00 - [20] - Quote Dorian Wylde wrote: Losing useless complexity? Losing wasted time trying to remember a thousand different names that serve no purpose? Losing modules that never get used and serve no purpose other than to confuse new players? Yeah, we are losing some things. And good riddance. These 'the old ways are better because I shouldn't have to adapt!" threads are really getting tiresome and pathetic. There is no choice in the current system. All they're doing is making the market interface easier to sort through. Refer to Mixu Paatelainen's post. If you want to make things easier to sort through, there you go.
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4544	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:37:00 - [21] - Quote Thead Enco wrote: Mass exodus to Riot = Lack of creativity left at CCP. So, Grrr LoL??? Personal channel: *Crazy Dutch Guy* Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4544	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:39:00 - [22] - Quote Caviar Liberta wrote: Cartheron Crust wrote: I await the day when I can pilot a spaceship called:- Gallente Blaster Cruiser I Gallente Drone Cruiser I Gallente Damping Cruiser I Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser I Or the T2 variants. Gallente Blaster Cruiser II Gallente Drone Cruiser II Gallente Damping Cruiser II Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser II Spaceship tiericide coming soon(tm). Gallente Blaster Cruiser I --->Thorax Gallente Drone Cruiser I --> Vexor Gallente Damping Cruiser I --> Celestis Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser I --> Exequror Gallente Blaster Cruiser II --> Deimos Gallente Drone Cruiser II --> Ishtar Gallente Damping Cruiser II --> Lachesis Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser II --> Oneiros Please put Sarcasm to 1 in front of your skillqueue Personal channel: *Crazy Dutch Guy* Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road
Mixu Paatelainen Brutal Deluxe. 116	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:47:00 - [23] - Quote Would just like to add, the only acceptable use of the word "ample" is in reference to a milkmaid's bosoms.
Hal Morsh Exodus Mining Corp 146	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:49:00 - [24] - Quote These items were used ccp >.> Not EVERYBODY has gone down the "super epic pro elite must fit cap boosters" way. Those core agumentations were also important. You could get a few mills if one dropped at a random site, so not only did you manage to dumb them down, but you managed to nerf the loot at sites and the market behind them. Death by a thousand cuts anyone? When I was a newbie and I got one of those core augmentations I made myself 3 mill... I guess it doesn't actually matter though, if they start doing this to everything I might worry. I just prefer they not get rid of the meta system, and I think that is the reason people are freaking out about such a small change. Just having meta items gives the game complexity, the market is more rich and people looting anything from pve to pvp wrecks get to look forward to certain types of items, and mix up their fits a bit. It just doesn't seem right to be ridding of the meta items, and with them gone off invention then this. Well.. I'm done typing lol. *I enjoy a good session of mining.*
Zel Juk Reproduction Inc. 2	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:05:00 - [25] - Quote Not sure why everyone's mad. The names, which aren't final, have only been discussed in relation to a very limited range of items.They will test the player response and gather feedback for more important modules such as guns and tank. Talk about picking your battles. As for the dumbing down argument, purposely putting obstacles between the players and information available to them isn't the sign of a complex game, its a sign of bad design. Its not dumbing down if the information is already there but is just hidden behind a arbitrary system of info boxes. If CCP come up with a naming system that amply describes the potency of the module while maintaining some level of creativity, then the game will be all the better for it.
Jennifer Maxwell Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 149	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:08:00 - [26] - Quote Zel Juk wrote: Not sure why everyone's mad. The names, which aren't final, have only been discussed in relation to a very limited range of items.They will test the player response and gather feedback for more important modules such as guns and tank. Talk about picking your battles. As for the dumbing down argument, purposely putting obstacles between the players and information available to them isn't the sign of a complex game, its a sign of bad design. Its not dumbing down if the information is already there but is just hidden behind a arbitrary system of info boxes. If CCP come up with a naming system that amply describes the potency of the module while maintaining some level of creativity, then the game will be all the better for it. Missile launchers are, contrary to what CCP seems to think, important modules.
Jon Joringer Zero-K 141	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:15:00 - [27] - Quote Module teircide is a great idea -- having different modules of the same type actually have uses is awesome. But I do agree that the naming convention is just going to be bland. Surely there is a way to work these new 'catch words' into the existing, more interesting and unique names. Example: Focused Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor, as opposed to Focused Stasis Webifier (along side a whole slew of other 'Stasis Webifiers'). One remains interesting, one does not. Shouldn't be too hard not to rip the unique module names out of the game.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 24631	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:20:00 - [28] - Quote The loss of something pointless (or even detrimental) is generally called a gain. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
Tara Ro School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:22:00 - [29] - Quote I don't know, I kind of liked all the different modules. Having to decide which one to fit, sell or reprocess was kind of fun for me. But, it's still too complex. I'm sure that we will eventually end up with three modules (to avoid confusion). 1. Engine - makes your ship go 2. Weapon - for pew pew 3. Defense - makes your ship last a few seconds longer This also has the side benefit of fitting in line with other games, i.e. Stamina/Mana/Health. So it's a win win.
Crumplecorn Eve Cluster Explorations 1409	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:30:00 - [30] - Quote Jennifer Maxwell wrote: A "200mm Prototype Automatic Cannon", or an "200mm Ample Autocannon"? Now that I think about it, shouldn't that thing be out of the prototype stage by now? [witty image] - Stream
Marsha Mallow 1554	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:34:00 - [31] - Quote Module tiericide and consolidating all the useless crap is a fine idea. Preserving daft mods with daft stats is, basically daft. Opposing it using the "lore" and "immersion" angle is uhm misguided [daft] given that probably 5 people in the entire game feel passionate about the lore. And nodoby cares what they think. Because they are, uhr, well, frankly odd. But I agree the new naming convention is a bit uninspiring. "Basic" vs "Prototype" - thanks for pointing out to the noobs that they are "basically" scrubs. If we're going to go with egomods, let's do it properly. > Adorable Noob [Reactor Control Unit] > Meta 0 > Peasant > Meta 1 > Scrub > Meta 2 > Uppity Scrub > Meta 3 > Elite Peasant Scrub > Meta 4 I'd go on but all of them would be obscene, insulting, abusive, and verging on cybertorture. DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
Nishachara True Enlightenment 1	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:43:00 - [32] - Quote Imho... they should not get rid of old meta modules :P Yes, introduce new tiercided ones but keep the old ones as well. Because someone who had just a tiny bit of powergrid or cpu, not enough for the biggest meta gun, maybe fitted the next in line. Same is with all other modules. Meta 4 is the most used but that does not mean that nobody uses lower meta items, they have their uses albeit rare, but for thight fits and special circumstances they are great and add diversity and more choice to the game. And now you'll be able to either fit t1, or named t1 or t2 ( if you have it trained and it fits), you wont have that moment of resarching all the modules in one group, and finding just right one that fits with other just right ones for your specialized fit for ...something something darkside ... :P Also i like unique names of modules, as Jon Joringer proposed, unique names should be kept with the prefix describing what type of module is and modules without a prefix should stay as old meta modules for people to use when and if they want and need. More stuff to choose from even useless in 90% of situations is better then no stuff for 10% of situation. And also, i personaly like even percievable complexity and that is what drew me to eve in the first place. If there are 5 modules of some type from which most people use 2 or 3 at daily basis and other 7 rarerly it looks more interesting and complex, it does not matter if those 7 modules are unused. You have a sense of a bigger universe, so to speak, with more various stuff in it...
Falin Whalen GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 728	Posted - 2014.09.25 23:31:00 - [33] - Quote Nishachara wrote: I feel passionate about the lore, and i know more than 5 people who like eve lore. Your alts don't count. "it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka-á
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 638	Posted - 2014.09.26 01:03:00 - [34] - Quote Cartheron Crust wrote: I await the day when I can pilot a spaceship called:- Gallente Blaster Cruiser I Gallente Drone Cruiser I Gallente Damping Cruiser I Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser I Or the T2 variants. Gallente Blaster Cruiser II Gallente Drone Cruiser II Gallente Damping Cruiser II Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser II Spaceship tiericide coming soon(tm). heh, look at the art devblog, internally they are already GC1 GC2 GC3 GC4 I'll join the chorus asking CCP, don't take my fancy names away from me! In the name of the Limos, the Malkuth, and the Arbalest, so help me pod - Mara Rinn
Vyl Vit 810	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:03:00 - [35] - Quote I really don't care what it's called, so long as the name isn't confusing. What I care about you'll find on that all-important attributes panel. Yes, the description just to see if there's a stacking penalty. I compare attributes panels, not clever names. Anyone with any sense has already left town.
Money Makin Mitch Paid in Full 459	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:15:00 - [36] - Quote What was the rationale behind changing the values around on the officer co-processors? you basically just made the **** ones good and the good ones ****.
Jennifer Maxwell Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 155	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:15:00 - [37] - Quote Vyl Vit wrote: I really don't care what it's called, so long as the name isn't confusing. What I care about you'll find on that all-important attributes panel. Yes, the description just to see if there's a stacking penalty. I compare attributes panels, not clever names. The you wouldnt mind supporting us when we say we want it to stay unique and interesting, rather than be changed to uninspired and uniform, right?
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1553	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:48:00 - [38] - Quote Jon Joringer wrote: Module teircide is a great idea -- having different modules of the same type actually have uses is awesome. But I do agree that the naming convention is just going to be bland. Surely there is a way to work these new 'catch words' into the existing, more interesting and unique names. Example: Focused Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor, as opposed to Focused Stasis Webifier (along side a whole slew of other 'Stasis Webifiers'). One remains interesting, one does not. Shouldn't be too hard to keep the unique module names in the game. So when I search the market for stasis webifier to look at my options, it doesn't come up in the search..... Bad design I wouldn't be against Focused 'Fleeting' stasis webifier. Keeping the current 'name' in the new name still, but I shouldn't have to memorise variant names for a stasis webifier just to find them in a search.
JamesT KirkJr the oasis group TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 5	Posted - 2014.09.26 03:42:00 - [39] - Quote Dorian Wylde wrote: Losing useless complexity? Losing wasted time trying to remember a thousand different names that serve no purpose? Losing modules that never get used and serve no purpose other than to confuse new players? Yeah, we are losing some things. And good riddance. These 'the old ways are better because I shouldn't have to adapt!" threads are really getting tiresome and pathetic. There is no choice in the current system. All they're doing is making the market interface easier to sort through. Losing 20% of the DPS of my current launchers? In exchange for what exactly? I don't really feel that's a "good riddance" thing. I think this is a horrible bad thing, and only people who fit T2 on everything don't care, because they won't feel it. But everyone who plays the game with T1 stuffs is going to feel this nerf bat right upside their ship capabilities. How is nobody even calling that out?
Crumplecorn Eve Cluster Explorations 1411	Posted - 2014.09.26 03:51:00 - [40] - Quote Marsha Mallow wrote: If we're going to go with egomods, let's do it properly. > Adorable Noob [Reactor Control Unit] > Meta 0 > Peasant > Meta 1 > Scrub > Meta 2 > Uppity Scrub > Meta 3 > Elite Peasant Scrub > Meta 4 I'd go on but all of them would be obscene, insulting, abusive, and verging on cybertorture. This post made my night. Witty Image - Stream Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Burl en Daire M.O.M.S. Corp 42	Posted - 2014.09.26 05:37:00 - [41] - Quote Trying to make them like the DUST514 progression system. Basic, advanced, prototype and officer. With some being purchased with AUR that require lower skills and other that have to be bought with ISK and LP. All the named are AUR purchased, officer or LP bought. http://dust514.wikia.com/wiki/Assault_Rifles This one may be easier to understand because the stats are on a spreadsheet. http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Assault_Rifle Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson
Xuixien The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 1773	Posted - 2014.09.26 09:02:00 - [42] - Quote Who cares. Right now you either use "best meta" or tech2. They might as well named modules "Tech1 blaster", "best meta blaster" and "tech2 blaster". With metacide or whatever, at least thered be more variation and actual reason for hundreds of items to exist in the game regardless of names Epic Space Cat
Nalha Saldana Contractors Ltd. 818	Posted - 2014.09.26 09:29:00 - [43] - Quote When i first read the devblog i was happy to see the changes but after thinking this over I very much agree with you, especially when looting NPC wrecks one should find a bunch of modules with interesting names and not this crap. Maybe they could use this new system but take the names from old meta modules? For example if there are 2 named modules post patch they could simply have the current meta 3 & 4 names. Losing these names would be a loss to game immersion and makes EVE less real. Or maybe go with the Dust system, there different guns are named after manufacturers, that wouldn't be a bad system at all and we can learn for example that Zoar and Sons builds lasers that take less PG.
eliminator2 Pirates With Wings Bad-Intentions 9	Posted - 2014.09.26 09:34:00 - [44] - Quote i didnt mind naming all i noticed was the T2 version is lett bonus's that one of the named flux xoils Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Capacity Multiplier GÇô 20% (was 10%) Capacitor Recharge Rate Multiplier GÇô 39% (was 26%) CPU GÇô 14 (was 22) Type-D Power Core Modification: Capacitor Flux is now Restrained Capacitor Flux Coil Capacitor Capacity Multiplier GÇô 25% (was 10%) Capacitor Recharge Rate Multiplier GÇô 41% (was 22%) CPU GÇô 10 (was 19)
Xuixien The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 1773	Posted - 2014.09.26 09:42:00 - [45] - Quote Nalha Saldana wrote: When i first read the devblog i was happy to see the changes but after thinking this over I very much agree with you, especially when looting NPC wrecks one should find a bunch of modules with interesting names and not this crap. Maybe they could use this new system but take the names from old meta modules? For example if there are 2 named modules post patch they could simply have the current meta 3 & 4 names. Losing these names would be a loss to game immersion and makes EVE less real. Or maybe go with the Dust system, there different guns are named after manufacturers, that wouldn't be a bad system at all and we can learn for example that Zoar and Sons builds lasers that take less PG. Thats actually cool. Zoar and Sons Efficient Heavy Pulse Maser. Epic Space Cat
Ix Method Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 172	Posted - 2014.09.26 09:51:00 - [46] - Quote The same was said when they fixed agents, does anyone still cry themselves to sleep dreaming of Administration agents? Travelling at the speed of love.
Inxentas Ultramar Ultramar Independent Contracting 1534	Posted - 2014.09.26 09:58:00 - [47] - Quote Tippia wrote: The loss of something pointless (or even detrimental) is generally called a gain. I'm someone that deals with naming conventions on a daily basis. The principle alone seems absent entirely from the current module names and I look forward to being able to input relevant queries into the market search window.
Adrie Atticus The Shadow Plague The Bastion 381	Posted - 2014.09.26 10:01:00 - [48] - Quote Crumplecorn wrote: Jennifer Maxwell wrote: A "200mm Prototype Automatic Cannon", or an "200mm Ample Autocannon"? Now that I think about it, shouldn't that thing be out of the prototype stage by now? No, they're still not sure now to handle with the disposal of melted barrels from all the overheating.
Karak Bol Low-Sec Survival Ltd. 195	Posted - 2014.09.26 10:12:00 - [49] - Quote As a trainer of new players, I welcome the new names. Way easier to explain.
Lucrii Dei Vector Galactic The Big Dirty 46	Posted - 2014.09.26 11:05:00 - [50] - Quote Nalha Saldana wrote: Or maybe go with the Dust system, there different guns are named after manufacturers, that wouldn't be a bad system at all and we can learn for example that Zoar and Sons builds lasers that take less PG. This. GöÇGòó The Explorer I GöÇGòó The Explorer II (Coming Soon!)
Priscilla Project Custom Clothing Productions 87	Posted - 2014.09.26 11:06:00 - [51] - Quote Lucrii Dei wrote: Nalha Saldana wrote: Or maybe go with the Dust system, there different guns are named after manufacturers, that wouldn't be a bad system at all and we can learn for example that Zoar and Sons builds lasers that take less PG. This. Lucriii! Knee long socks!! :D The most sexy piece of clothing New Eden saw to date! The 'Open Avenue' short dress! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461 Join my mailing list, "wemew", for fast and easy future updates! (without the ")
Mocam EVE University Ivy League 461	Posted - 2014.09.26 11:26:00 - [52] - Quote Inxentas Ultramar wrote: Tippia wrote: The loss of something pointless (or even detrimental) is generally called a gain. I'm someone that deals with naming conventions on a daily basis. The principle alone seems absent entirely from the current module names and I look forward to being able to input relevant queries into the market search window. I see both sides of it but what you're somewhat missing here is - single vendor, single line naming. Multiple vendors, multiple lines. M4, HK 37, AK-101, FAMAS, SIG 530, 540 and 550 ... All 5.56x45mm NATO based AR's - all differently named, numbered, etc. Shall we go into ATI vs NVIDIA video cards instead? How about SSD drives? So when you deal with a single sourcing or the like, you can expect consistency but when you start branching to varied suppliers, you rarely come across consistent naming conventions. I'm neither for nor against a renaming gig but supposedly the systems in this game are from different vendors/manufacturers - in which case, they most probably wouldn't be consistently named and numbered.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1553	Posted - 2014.09.26 11:39:00 - [53] - Quote Mocam wrote: Inxentas Ultramar wrote: [quote=Tippia]The loss of something pointless (or even detrimental) is generally called a gain. I'm neither for nor against a renaming gig but supposedly the systems in this game are from different vendors/manufacturers - in which case, they most probably wouldn't be consistently named and numbered. Then lets consider that it's the marketing agency who enforces a naming convention on the manufacturers in order for their customers to be able to compare products accurately RP arguments are easy to come by either way. The relevant question is the system, and right now the system does not allow proper searches by module name for all variants, the proposed system does, so that's a huge improvement in actual functionality. Provided that new clear functionality is good, I don't mind if RP elements are also added, but I want to be able to search for a module using the T1 name and get all variants. Not have to memorise 5 different names to search for. And I want to see at a glance what those modules benefits are, again not have to memorise hundreds of different names for all the different modules.
Kaivar Lancer Unlimited Speciality Networks 548	Posted - 2014.09.26 14:28:00 - [54] - Quote I support module tiercide. It would actually make meta 1-3 modules useful. I also support changing the names of meta modules. When I first started, I thought 'prototype' cannons were crap. Ya know, because they were prototypes, and not the real thing. I wonder how many newbies made the same mistake of swapping meta 4s for crappy T1 modules because of their names.
Christopher AET hirr Northern Coalition. 820	Posted - 2014.09.26 15:47:00 - [55] - Quote Names like "efficient" "eco" "enhanced" make sense. Ample.....that naming convention needs more pssshhh I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance.
Hiply Rustic Aliastra Gallente Federation 196	Posted - 2014.09.26 22:01:00 - [56] - Quote Cartheron Crust wrote: I await the day when I can pilot a spaceship called:- Gallente Blaster Cruiser I Gallente Drone Cruiser I Gallente Damping Cruiser I Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser I Or the T2 variants. Gallente Blaster Cruiser II Gallente Drone Cruiser II Gallente Damping Cruiser II Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser II Spaceship tiericide coming soon(tm). Far too complicated a set of ships! For tiericide to be truly progressive we need to achieve a state where you get: -Ship, Space Type, 1 each. Addition of various modules will create -Ship, Space Type, Weapons System=Missiles -Ship, Space Type, Weapons System=Lasers -Ship, Space Type, Weapons System=Hybrid -Ship, Space Type, Weapons System=Dakka -Ship, Space Type, Stealth -Ship, Space Type, Cargo All weapons systems can add drones at the expense of 50% of the weapons system DPS. All weapons systems will deliver identical DPS, the only variations being sound and particle effects differences Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." *EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.*
Foxstar Damaskeenus Soul Takers 212	Posted - 2014.09.26 22:26:00 - [57] - Quote Ample breasts, compact breasts. Now I know what Fozzie was thinking about when he came up with this. Unban Aglon!
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 1940	Posted - 2014.09.26 22:28:00 - [58] - Quote Module tiericide is good. Naming conventions is good. But... The actual names suck pretty bad. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 2362	Posted - 2014.09.26 22:34:00 - [59] - Quote I can earnestly say it would be a sad day if they where to change these names: PWN PWND PWNT PWNAGE ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

Marcel Brinalle Deadspace Coalition 27	Posted - 2014.09.26 22:54:00 - [60] - Quote Dorian Wylde wrote: Losing useless complexity? Losing wasted time trying to remember a thousand different names that serve no purpose? Losing modules that never get used and serve no purpose other than to confuse new players? Yeah, we are losing some things. And good riddance. These 'the old ways are better because I shouldn't have to adapt!" threads are really getting tiresome and pathetic. There is no choice in the current system. All they're doing is making the market interface easier to sort through. But this useless complexity was fun! I remember when I first learned about meta, and I remember how much time I spent reading about different modules to find the one that was meta4. Sure, I could have just clicked "Variations" and check each - but it was easier to go to 3rd party website and read through all of them, looking at stats and comparing them. Finding Photonic CPU Enhancer was simply great! Now? Now I'm gonna remember what ample or whatever is, and that's all. I'm gonna always know which module is the one I'm looking for. Dumbing down the game? Definitely. Is it good? I'm against. Not a game breaker, but it's just sad. If someone doesn't want to put a minimum effort to learn about different version names of meta0 module - it's his problem, not dev's. We shouldn't have to adapt? But adapt to what really? To 3-4 new words used for naming every module all across the range? That's adaptation? Laughable. But it's all about money, let's face it...
ElSuerte Diego Los Perros Hermanos 6	Posted - 2014.09.26 23:57:00 - [61] - Quote I'll miss the naming conventions, but my main concern is that they didn't make player created items more relevant. As the module tiericide plan stands now, there is simply no reason to use t1 m0 items, just like before, because the mods looted from npc's still receive a general buff over the m0 player made items. IMO, that is antithetical to the spirit of the EVE player driven economy. Ideally, the new meta mods should just be specialized versions of the m0 mod. They shouldn't receive a general buff on top of the specialization.
Jon Joringer Zero-K 144	Posted - 2014.09.27 00:28:00 - [62] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Jon Joringer wrote: Module teircide is a great idea -- having different modules of the same type actually have uses is awesome. But I do agree that the naming convention is just going to be bland. Surely there is a way to work these new 'catch words' into the existing, more interesting and unique names. Example: Focused Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor, as opposed to Focused Stasis Webifier (along side a whole slew of other 'Stasis Webifiers'). One remains interesting, one does not. Shouldn't be too hard to keep the unique module names in the game. So when I search the market for stasis webifier to look at my options, it doesn't come up in the search..... Bad design I wouldn't be against Focused 'Fleeting' stasis webifier. Keeping the current 'name' in the new name still, but I shouldn't have to memorise variant names for a stasis webifier just to find them in a search. I don't really see the issue. The market is already subdivided into module types for that very reason. If you want to see all types of stasis webifiers, just expand the web tree. I suppose the search feature could be updated to bring up module trees if it's really that much of a hassle for people (i.e. type in stasis web and click module type box and be taken to the same list that you could have just expanded manually). It's really not a huge issue, but I'll be sad if all of our interesting module names just become bland and formulaic. Might as well call ships Minmatar Combat Cruiser, Minmatar Attack Cruiser, etc, too. That makes it easier for newbros to understand, too, right?
Morihei Akachi Nishida Corporation 80	Posted - 2014.09.27 00:43:00 - [63] - Quote I'm more or less in favour of changing the module stats, I guess, but I can see no reason to change the names to something as generic and boring as the suggestions currently on the table. Having different and interesting names for modules has been an aspect of immersion I've personally really enjoyed. Sure, you curse that "limited" and "upgraded" mean different meta levels for MWDs and ABs, but after a while you chuckle and are secretly proud of yourself that you've mastered even this little inconsistency in the game. And that's the point: it's interesting complexity, like learning off all the names of the kings of Numenor or the dates of the emperors of Rome. (Did the first once, never quite managed the second.) It contributes to that odd sense of competence and satisfaction that is surely a not inconsiderable part of what attracts us to Eve and keeps us playing. Your spirit is the true shield.
Glathull Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 759	Posted - 2014.09.27 02:16:00 - [64] - Quote I haven't read the dev blog yet. Will go do that now. One of the things that really got me hooked on EvE is that there was so much incredibly confusing stuff. It's like the real world. Some products are better and more expensive, some are more expensive but not actually better, some are cheaper and better, some are cheaper and worse. I always felt like this aspect of a player-driven economy was really cool. It was a challenge to learn however many years ago, and it's cool to understand now. I suspect I'll feel unhappy based on what I'm reading here. But I'm reserving an opinion until later. For now, I think it feels more right and more real for there to be lots of confusing options to understand. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Kousaka Otsu Shigure Cora Relics and Antiquities 7	Posted - 2014.09.27 08:23:00 - [65] - Quote For me, this is kinda like the 'we don't want round reticles, bring back the square ones!' The (possibly) one less click/mouseover to know what an object would do, is always a good UI feature for me. Change it! Change everything! Adapt or Die!
Sobaan Tali Caldari Quick Reaction Force 367	Posted - 2014.09.27 08:48:00 - [66] - Quote Remember YT-8 Overcharged MWDs. Still missing you, my old prop mod buddy. RIP. Soon, we will see the end of the C5-L Shield Boosters, FS-9 Shield Extenders, 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructors, 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairers, Peroxide Capacitor Power Cells, and Unstable Power Fluctuators. Yeah, this is not the first time CCP's renaming of modules has been brought into question regarding easier but unoriginal versus more unique and interesting names. Also, still don't get the whole "Invulnerability Field" becomes "Adaptive Invulnerability Field". Just seems like a bigger mouthful for the sake of making it sound more like an armor module; in other words, I still think this is more confusing than easier to read.
Sobaan Tali Caldari Quick Reaction Force 367	Posted - 2014.09.27 08:53:00 - [67] - Quote ElSuerte Diego wrote: I'll miss the naming conventions, but my main concern is that they didn't make player created items more relevant. As the module tiericide plan stands now, there is simply no reason to use t1 m0 items, just like before, because the mods looted from npc's still receive a general buff over the m0 player made items. IMO, that is antithetical to the spirit of the EVE player driven economy. Ideally, the new meta mods should just be specialized versions of the m0 mod. They shouldn't receive a general buff on top of the specialization. ^ This. I had hoped that the mod tiericide would do just that. Alas, I get to simply reaffirm my old saying, "Hope for the best, but expect the worst."
Sal Landry School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 231	Posted - 2014.09.27 09:16:00 - [68] - Quote ISD Ezwal wrote: I can earnestly say it would be a sad day if they where to change these names: PWN PWND PWNT PWNAGE We're relying on you to ban Fozzie when he posts the target painter tiericide thread. Please don't let us down.
Priscilla Project Custom Clothing Productions 142	Posted - 2014.09.27 09:25:00 - [69] - Quote I miss the Y-10 10mn Aterburner. Most epic piece of hardware to put on a rifter! Not even sure anymore that was called that way. -.-' I guess this mea s they will kill the yf-12 smartbombs too..... The most sexy piece of clothing New Eden saw to date! The 'Open Avenue' short dress! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461 Join my mailing list, "wemew", for fast and easy future updates! (without the ")
Lady Spank The Intaki Ladies Deep Space Astrogation Auxiliary 3682	Posted - 2014.09.27 09:42:00 - [70] - Quote Let's simplify eve by: 1. Removing choice and making eve ships fits even more homogenised. 2. Oh you need 1CPU more on your fitting? Sorry, we removed that tier 3 scram because it was making Eve too complicated to keep it in the item database. (Which is quite common on a lot of frigate fits). 3. Needlessly renaming modules so you have to relearn them. 4. Removing cultural variety between the 4 races (LOL RP, if you like). I'd like to think CCP will reconsider this change but it's unlikely despite what it represents for the future of the game. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (a¦á_a¦â)
Lady Spank The Intaki Ladies Deep Space Astrogation Auxiliary 3682	Posted - 2014.09.27 09:44:00 - [71] - Quote Kousaka Otsu Shigure wrote: For me, this is kinda like the 'we don't want round reticles, bring back the square ones!' The (possibly) one less click/mouseover to know what an object would do, is always a good UI feature for me. Change it! Change everything! Adapt or Die! Except it has the opposite effect since you need to relearn the new module names AND figure out which of the varieties of modules they decided to keep because they boiled down varied modules into just one. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (a¦á_a¦â)
Priscilla Project Custom Clothing Productions 145	Posted - 2014.09.27 10:24:00 - [72] - Quote Lady Spank wrote: Let's simplify eve by: 1. Removing choice and making eve ships fits even more homogenised. 2. Oh you need 1CPU more on your fitting? Sorry, we removed that tier 3 scram because it was making Eve too complicated to keep it in the item database. (Which is quite common on a lot of frigate fits). 3. Needlessly renaming modules so you have to relearn them. 4. Removing cultural variety between the 4 races (LOL RP, if you like). I'd like to think CCP will reconsider this change but it's unlikely despite what it represents for the future of the game. Hey ... this actually makes sense to be brought up in Jita too ........................... The most sexy piece of clothing New Eden saw to date! The 'Open Avenue' short dress! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461 Join my mailing list, "wemew", for fast and easy future updates! (without the ")
Jandice Ymladris Aurora Arcology 869	Posted - 2014.09.27 11:05:00 - [73] - Quote I get the idea behind the Module Tiericide, reducing the clutter of all the various modules & put a system in it. Part of the flavor for fitting will go lost, that's sadly a given. But in return, this tiericide could make Meta modules open for player creation, blueprints & such as they're more consistent now. It would also help in introducing new variants of modules with themes (by example, caldari modules use less CPU & Minmatar Modules would use less powergrid etc etc) What I am against is the bland naming schedule of the new tiericide modules. While names in itself don't mean much, they do help in improving immersion & enjoyment of the game. It's just more fun firing 'prototype' guns or 'XT-2800' launchers then firing 'ample' and 'compact' weapons. The blandness of the new names does take away a bit of the fun sci-fi feeling of EVE in my opinion. Some module lines do need name simplification (especially in the engineering department, some modules vary wildly without even hinting about it in names). I do agree with the 'simplification' assessment that all modules of the same line should carry the same name + some extension to differ them, but please make the extension sound better then 'ample' or 'compact' A 'Prototype' Blaster by example still carries home the message that it is a blaster that is amplified compared to the normal 'Blaster'. Freeing slaves, the first step of many... -áNew Eden Capsuleer writing contest! Deadline 15 october!
Seneca Auran Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 42	Posted - 2014.09.27 11:18:00 - [74] - Quote Kaivar Lancer wrote: I support module tiercide. It would actually make meta 1-3 modules useful. I also support changing the names of meta modules. When I first started, I thought 'prototype' cannons were crap. Ya know, because they were prototypes, and not the real thing. I wonder how many newbies made the same mistake of swapping meta 4s for crappy T1 modules because of their names. Or perhaps it would be more constructive to induct newbros into the mysteries of the 'show information' button, and teach them how to decipher the esoteric symbols of the 'attributes tab'.
Jennifer Maxwell Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 163	Posted - 2014.09.27 14:54:00 - [75] - Quote Lady Spank wrote: Let's simplify eve by: 1. Removing choice and making eve ships fits even more homogenised. 2. Oh you need 1CPU more on your fitting? Sorry, we removed that tier 3 scram because it was making Eve too complicated to keep it in the item database. (Which is quite common on a lot of frigate fits). 3. Needlessly renaming modules so you have to relearn them. 4. Removing cultural variety between the 4 races (LOL RP, if you like). I'd like to think CCP will reconsider this change but it's unlikely despite what it represents for the future of the game. You made a point I wanted to bring up but forgot. Consolidating down modules will eventually lead to quite a few fitting changes needing to be made to our ships, because of that exact reason. For frigate and destroyer pilots, this is really gonna hit hard. I know at least four people who, once they actually understand whats happening, are gonna be royally pissed.
Eugene Kerner TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory. 1377	Posted - 2014.09.27 16:02:00 - [76] - Quote Every loss in diversity makes EVE look like every other mediocre MMO out there. The real deal in EVE was always that there is so much diversity....choices, consequences, putting some thought to what you are actually doing. Not everything needs to have a purpose for everyone in this game. I really Do not need a black monolith in space but to know that it is out there somewhere is satisfying. To sacrifice the diversity for the sake of simplyfication will turn players away. Sure, dumb fucks may find a protected environment to enfold and EVE probably even gains some One-time subs but long term costumers (the ones that buy plex for cash) will just be disgusted. TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Deep Space The ROC 9909	Posted - 2014.09.27 16:07:00 - [77] - Quote While I don't really like losing the named modules, and they certainly could have done a better job on the names of the items replacing them, my actual problem with this is quite different. ( "Ample"? "Scoped"? This isn't Borderlands, yeesh ) Namely, it does nothing to address the problem of T1(and Faction to a lesser extent) lasers remaining entirely useless. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaivar Lancer Unlimited Speciality Networks 549	Posted - 2014.09.27 16:57:00 - [78] - Quote Seneca Auran wrote: Or perhaps it would be more constructive to induct newbros into the mysteries of the 'show information' button, and teach them how to decipher the esoteric symbols of the 'attributes tab'. Adding unnecessary tabs / clicks is just poor design. The name of the module should describe it's function and quality. Maybe add an information tab that provides some lore.
Priscilla Project Custom Clothing Productions 153	Posted - 2014.09.27 16:59:00 - [79] - Quote Kaivar Lancer wrote: Seneca Auran wrote: Or perhaps it would be more constructive to induct newbros into the mysteries of the 'show information' button, and teach them how to decipher the esoteric symbols of the 'attributes tab'. Adding unnecessary tabs / clicks is just poor design. The name of the module should describe it's function and quality. Maybe add an information tab that provides some lore. No. That's an extremely shallow and cold approach to it. With that logic, CCP could just rename everything to the bland **** they are planning on doing right now. Just because you lack any depth or interest in it, it doesn't mean that nobody else does or that it's not actually important. This is exactly the same as it is in reallife. Literally everything has some sort of name attached to it, because it helps people make a connection. It's a selling point. It adds depth. It's the same thing in this game and CCP lacks understanding of the matter and rather wants to turn everything into the same cold, bland shallowness. The only people who could want this are people with no emotional depth whatsoever. The most sexy piece of clothing New Eden saw to date! The 'Open Avenue' short dress! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461 Join my mailing list, "wemew", for fast and easy future updates! (without the ")
Violet Hurst Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.09.27 18:13:00 - [80] - Quote Greetings, i too favor interesting names over an easily parseable naming convention. The problems with searching items some encountered could imho be solved by having the text search (offered in the market, cargo and assets window, etc.) query the type field as well as the name. When it comes to the stats of the new items, i'm all for a role-based distinction. However nobody seems to know yet how many of the current named module classes will be specialized that way and how many will just get consolidated into one "upgraded" item. A smaller number of modules leads to a smaller number of possible fittings, which in turn leads to less diversity in the game. (Which is a bad thing.) Fewer items also make the market less interesting for traders, which leads me to my last point: The devblog stated there'd be virtually no reason to use anything else than meta 4, but forgot about one attribute: the price. In many cases you can get a meta 3 module for under a quarter of the price of the meta 4 variant. And in areas where every ISK counts, like being a new player or suicide ganking, this makes a remarkable difference.
Dave Stark 7001	Posted - 2014.09.27 18:39:00 - [81] - Quote while the naming conventions currently, are interesting... they're also a pain in the ******* ass. if i want to fit a ship, i don't want to figure out what the named meta 4 module is, or if part of it's name has quote marks in it or not, etc. while the new names are boring, they're less hassle. and i'd take less hassle over interesting any day of the week.
Guttripper State War Academy Caldari State 537	Posted - 2014.09.27 18:46:00 - [82] - Quote *awaits the renaming of all the solar systems to simpler names and numbers combinations...
Jennifer Maxwell Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 165	Posted - 2014.09.27 19:26:00 - [83] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: while the naming conventions currently, are interesting... they're also a pain in the ******* ass. if i want to fit a ship, i don't want to figure out what the named meta 4 module is, or if part of it's name has quote marks in it or not, etc. while the new names are boring, they're less hassle. and i'd take less hassle over interesting any day of the week. Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm that quick on the uptake and amazingly intelligent. But to me, memorizing the items that I constantly use for pvp is really simple. Hell, memorizing all the modules I use is really simple. I even know the names of the modules that I don't use.
Amber Solaire Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2014.09.27 19:36:00 - [84] - Quote These new names are too simplistic What is wrong with having some different names for meta modules? CCP is doing a great job at making everything become bland and humdrum The idea is to encourage people to remember names, unless you think we all have Alzheimers.....
Morihei Akachi Nishida Corporation 86	Posted - 2014.09.27 20:32:00 - [85] - Quote The new names do seem to take away from the colour and richness of the universe of New Eden a bit. Hard to imagine that in the fraught and competitive future Eve is meant to create, all the developers of starship modules are going to stick to this one homogenous scheme. At least, I find it harder to believe than the current, much more realistic chaos. And I want to be able to believe New Eden. Believability, as far as it goes, is a part of what makes it fun to play. At least for me. But perhaps I'm in a minority with this. Your spirit is the true shield.
Seneca Auran Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 44	Posted - 2014.09.27 20:53:00 - [86] - Quote Kaivar Lancer wrote: Seneca Auran wrote: Or perhaps it would be more constructive to induct newbros into the mysteries of the 'show information' button, and teach them how to decipher the esoteric symbols of the 'attributes tab'. Adding unnecessary tabs / clicks is just poor design. The name of the module should describe it's function and quality. Maybe add an information tab that provides some lore. The name of the module does describe it's function. But still, in the spirit of making things simpler for easily confused newbros and the lazy, I propose a new naming system! Examples: Good Gun I Better Gun I Even Better Gun I Awesomest Gun I Fast Afterburner I Faster Afterburner I Like, REALLY Fast Afterburner I OMG BRO! SO FAST! Afterburner I
Bas Hauser Hate Me Inc 1	Posted - 2014.09.27 21:00:00 - [87] - Quote Look at a real life example: BMW 2014 M6 Gran Coup+¬ 6C91 ---> Fast BMW Car Would look AMAZING in their new ad! Oceanus should be callled 'Hasbro' instead... :-(
Pen Ris Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 3	Posted - 2014.09.27 21:01:00 - [88] - Quote How did CCP find all these masochists and get them to buy an Internet spaceship game. They come up with some names that actually make sense and a 100 people lose their mind. If the RP community doesn't appreciate the names, then they can make up whatever slang they want to call the modules with better lore than the developers anyway.
Priscilla Project Custom Clothing Productions 162	Posted - 2014.09.27 21:13:00 - [89] - Quote Pen Ris wrote: How did CCP find all these masochists and get them to buy an Internet spaceship game. They come up with some names that actually make sense and a 100 people lose their mind. If the RP community doesn't appreciate the names, then they can make up whatever slang they want to call the modules with better lore than the developers anyway. Except that "sense" in your mind is only half of actual reality. Preferring a cold and bland naming scheme is fine, but there is more to naming items than having an easy way to find them. People who are for this idea completely ignore the fact that reality shows that it makes PERFECT SENSE that things have actual names! I can't believe how emotionally dead so many people nowadays are. But hey, if that's what you want ... why not have them rename ships too? Minmatar Attack Frigate. Minmatar Combat Frigate. Minmatar Logistics Frigate. Gallente Attack Frigate. Gallente Combat Frigate. Gallente Logistics Frigate. This would be the exact same **** ... and no one in his right mind would want that! Yet, all the emotionally blind people think it's a smart idea for modules, showing that they lack the understanding of the depth that properly named modules actually give! The most sexy piece of clothing New Eden saw to date! The 'Open Avenue' short dress! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461 Join my mailing list, "wemew", for fast and easy future updates! (without the ")
Seneca Auran Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 46	Posted - 2014.09.27 21:15:00 - [90] - Quote Pen Ris wrote: How did CCP find all these masochists and get them to buy an Internet spaceship game. Yes, truly it requires a deep sadomasochist streak to find it acceptable to actually have to pay attention to things in game to figure out what is best for doing what. Quote: If the RP community doesn't appreciate the names, then they can make up whatever slang they want to call the modules with better lore than the developers anyway. It doesn't require being some sort of hardcore roleplayer to enjoy the game having some flavor and variety. I mean why do we even have different ships in game? That players ship looks completely different from mine, how am I supposed to know what it is or what it does? Click on the info and find out for myself? I thought I signed up for a video game, not a BDSM club.
Sal Landry School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 232	Posted - 2014.09.27 21:23:00 - [91] - Quote It would be far better to do something like what they did with implants. They still have the flavourful brand names, but also have a code on the end of each one that describes precisely what they do. EG-605 Engineering, slot 6, 5% value You can search for -6 in the market to bring up every regular type of slot 6 implant, and they didn't need to gut the names to do it.
Morihei Akachi Nishida Corporation 87	Posted - 2014.09.27 21:47:00 - [92] - Quote (Cleaning my apartment, obsessing about this. ) I guess what I worry about, when I see things like this being presented as the way forward, is the status of Eve as a science fiction game. I feel like with this moveGÇöand there've been one or two others in recent releasesGÇöthe fictional status of New Eden, the story it evokes, is being deprecated, towards a more symbolic kind of gameplay, where the "meaning" of a gameplay choice is understood purely in terms of function, rather than also in terms of world-creation. So that the kind of narrative you end up with is like a game of chess: the pieces have no broader human context or significance, they are entirely reducible to what they do. Don't know that, in the longer term, I'm likely to retain my interest in a game like that. Your spirit is the true shield.
Scout Vyvorant University of Caille Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2014.09.27 22:27:00 - [93] - Quote I see a point both in CCP trying to change the modules and in the people complaining about the name changes. CCP's one is simple, we have 4 modules, 4 meta levels, and usually only the meta 4 is meaningfull and sometimes better than T2. What they are doing is correct, trying to make every module fit a role if needed. Player's point is also simple and correct, we cannot turn this game into a sea of scoped or ample modules, we love our "Arbalest" or "Prototype", or whatever prefix do modules have at the moment. I see two solutions, the first is to add in the name of the module the keyword related to the new role intended, and we should get an Ample "Arbalest" Missile Launcher and so on. The second is to tie the changed module to a corporation, instead of a faction, like a Scoped 'Duvolle Lab' 150mm Railgun. I'll also add something more to this, EVE online has a massive pool of people ready to step up and volunteer to write up descriptions for every module you wish to change, and explain why Duvolle Lab made a Scoped module or why Roden did an Ample one. While this wont bring any more benefit to the game, it will increase the immersion in the EvE universe, a sandbox shaped by the players, even in the module descriptions. You guys from CCP have just to ask the community, as you did with the ISD and other player based service.
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10170	Posted - 2014.09.27 22:29:00 - [94] - Quote Scout ... while I love your idea ... Who proofreads all this? Custom Clothing Productions proudly donated prices to the New Eden Capsuleer Writing Contest! (InCharacter only!) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5046531#post5046531
Scout Vyvorant University of Caille Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2014.09.27 22:34:00 - [95] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Scout ... while I love your idea ... Who proofreads all this? You mean the descriptions of the modules or my posts? If you mean the modules' one, I guess after the submission of the descriptions, once the best is picked, there is going to be some proof reading before making it live, and even so didn't CCP itself made several typos every time they implemented some new description? Typos are going to get fixed, and still I prefer to have a typo that's going to be fixed at the next downtime minipatch than having a sickening amount of modules with the same dull descriptions and names.
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10170	Posted - 2014.09.27 22:52:00 - [96] - Quote Scout Vyvorant wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Scout ... while I love your idea ... Who proofreads all this? You mean the descriptions of the modules or my posts? If you mean the modules' one, I guess after the submission of the descriptions, once the best is picked, there is going to be some proof reading before making it live, and even so didn't CCP itself made several typos every time they implemented some new description? Typos are going to get fixed, and still I prefer to have a typo that's going to be fixed at the next downtime minipatch than having a sickening amount of modules with the same dull descriptions and names. Yeah I'm talking about the tens of thousands of submissions by thousands of players. The issue starts with "once the best is picked" already. People need to be paid to read through all this stuff. While I love your idea in theory ... ... the execution would be madness. Custom Clothing Productions proudly donated prices to the New Eden Capsuleer Writing Contest! (InCharacter only!) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5046531#post5046531
Jennifer Maxwell Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 171	Posted - 2014.09.27 23:13:00 - [97] - Quote I think the naming module after NPC corps is a good idea. As long as it makes sense, anyways.
Khalm Hasal 0	Posted - 2014.09.27 23:48:00 - [98] - Quote If someone uses the wrong module because they just read the name and are too lazy to look at the actual data, they deserve whatever failure befalls them. I do not want the details of the universe destroyed because of lazy dweebs. Changing detail? All for it. Named after corps is a nifty idea. Just have details, whatever form it takes.
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 5440	Posted - 2014.09.28 00:03:00 - [99] - Quote I like the way that searching for "Scout" will show me a bunch of guns. Then I can search for "Prototype" will show me a bunch of better gunGÇö oh wait, what's all this other stuff? The worst bit about the new unified "Ample overdrive injector of the bear" naming scheme is that when I want an "ample" type of item, I'll be able to search for "ample" and have modules from every class show up. That's not what you want when you're trying to compare 125mm to 150mm rail guns. I would be able to get behind a "consistency of naming" push if the terms were common amongst a particular class of items, and didn't sound like they were designed for a fantasy game. As an example, take capacitor modifiers: Cap Recharger: "Barton Reactor Capacitor Recharger", "Fixed Parallel Link-Capacitor", "F-b10 Nominal Capacitor Regenerator", "Eutectic Capacitor Charge Array" Capacitor Power Relays: "Partial Power Plant Manager", "Alpha Reactor Control", "Type-E Power Core Modification", "Marked Generator Refitting", "Basic Capacitor Power Relay" and then there's a second group "Capacitor Power Relay I", "Type-D Power Core Modification", "Local Power Plant Manager", "Mark I Generator Refitting", "Beta Reactor Control" Capacitor Flux Coils have the same naming scheme (and parallel variant line for the "Basic" version) Capacitor Battery: "Ld-Acid", "Ohm", "F-4a Ld-Sulfate", "Peroxide" Capacitor Booster: "Brief", "Tapered", "F-RX Prototype", "Electrochemical" The tech-geeks amongst us will nerd out on the names ("Ld-Acid" should probably be "Pb-Acid" and describes an ancient and ultra-reliable battery technology). Assuming one actually wants to get rid of "flavour" names like "Pb-Acid" and "Peroxide", what are the differences that matter? Enduring could apply to modules that give you more recharge rate, then searching for "enduring" would list your capacitor flux coils right next to your low-capacitor-cost pulse lasers Ample could apply to modules that give you more capacity, listed right alongside auto cannons with larger magazines Restrained could apply to e.g. cap power relays that provide lower penalty to shield boost amount So we'd end up with Cap Rechargers like "Compact Cap Recharger", "Enduring Cap Recharger", and nothing else, because the new language doesn't have words to describe the variant in the middle (slightly less fitting, slightly better recharge rate). Thus the "vanilla" Cap Recharger I would have 10TF/1MW, 15% recovery, the Compact would end up with the 8TF 15% variant and the Enduring would end up with the 10TF 18% stats. There'd be nothing in between: where's the option of a 9TF & 16.5% recovery cap recharger for people whose fittings are quite tight? Are we allowed to have mixed names, "Compact Enduring Cap Recharger"? What about a capacitor battery with a higher leech reflect amount? Restrained? Scoped? Or just skip it because there's no name for that? There's a more complex scenario with Capacitor Power Relays: they have three essential features which are cap recharge rate, shield boost penalty and CPU to fit. Thus there's room for an Compact, Enduring & Restrained: each focussing on one stat. I accept that with a better search feature we could search the market for "capacitor, ample" and be shown all the capacitor-affecting modules that provide more capacity, while "railgun, ample, medium" would show us medium-sized rail guns with the ample modifier. This is apparently the direction that CCP wants to go, at the cost of the flavour of "Pb-Acid" versus "Peroxide" battery names. Although I do get annoyed by verbose names such as "Type D Power Core Modification: Capacitor Power Relay", it's worth remembering that the term for things that have no flavour is "bland". Is there a way to preserve the flavour and also have the "ample cap recharger of the bear" style naming scheme? What about "Ample Peroxide Capacitor Battery" versus "Compact Pb-Acid Capacitor Battery"? We have a similar mixed-style naming scheme for implants, "Zainou 'Snapshot' Cruise Missiles CM-601". This way you can select "Snapshot" for all missile-oriented implants, with "Zainou" being more of a flavour item, "-6" providing a means to search for implants to fill slot 6, and the rest providing details about what skill is altered and by how much. So how about "Ample 'Peroxide' Capacitor Battery S20" (Small, 20% better capacity)? I think that's pushing the limits of verbosity but achieving a balance between bland-names and flavour-names. People looking at these modules will have some idea of what the pertinent stat is. This will be confusing at first for people familiar with names such as "E50 Prototype Energy Vampire" which might instead become "Ample 'E50' Energy Vampire M" alongside "Compact 'Ghoul' Energy Vampire M", "Scoped 'Knave' Energy Vampire M", and 'Enduring 'Nosferatu' Energy Vampire M'. Aside from "ample" always being accompanied by the unwritten, unspoken "bust", I could get used to this new naming scheme as long as some attempt is made at preserving flavour. We'll also need a decent search facility which allows searching by a mixture of item size (small/medium/large/x-large/capital), item type ('energy vampire' as opposed to nosferatu/energy drain/energy siphon/power system drain), or flavour text ('nosferatu' and 'medium' for example). Although standard naming can be bland, there's only so much fancy nonsense I'll accept from a restaurant, for example. Beer battered fries are still beer battered fries, regardless of whether you describe them as, "hand cut potato slivers coated with an heirloom beer batter, deep fried until golden brown" or not. I can get on board this new naming scheme if some way of preserving flavour text is implemented. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 5441	Posted - 2014.09.28 00:44:00 - [100] - Quote GamerChick42 has some interesting thoughts on this matter in her post, "The Consequences of 'Balance'": http://www.gamerchick.net/2014/09/the-consequences-of-balance.html Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance 547	Posted - 2014.09.28 02:01:00 - [101] - Quote The thing that fecks me off about all CCP balancing stuff is the completely idiotic treatment of veteran players. We have spent years learning the nomenclature of modules, the stats of stuff, the strange 'Tech 2 is not always best', trained the niche skills to 5 just to fly something or use a POS gun. Eve is a game of adapt of die, sure... But when changes are made that serve no purpose other than to make the game more 'accessible' to new players - at the expense of our learned knowledge, something is way off. The balancing of ships worked initially because the changes generated new content, but it quickly settled into a new and actually more banal meta of PVP. For example... Logi being the requirement even for crappy frigate brawls, Kite being far superior in every way to brawl, Tanks (especially active ones) being ridiculously boosted making solo pvp a totally boring tank vs tank vs oh its bait again scrub game. Risk is being eliminated, ISK costs are being ramped up, Battleships being way overpriced, stupidly slow, unable to track anything bar other battleships... I guess the main point of my long grumbling post is this... CCP are ruining this game with poorly conceived changes for 'new' players at the expense of 'old' players. I personally can't be bothered re-learning stuff when the changes are more likely to limit, restrict and marginalise more of spaceship PVP than they actually enable. Change is fine and I'd embrace it if they actually introduced new stuff, added more variety for example and stopped doing things that seem like the rock, paper or scissors of our little game leaves us playing more rock, rock, rock.
Monica yolo Monkeys in Suits 0	Posted - 2014.09.28 02:07:00 - [102] - Quote How about skills? Shield Recharge Shield HP Armor HP Structure HP Gun Damage More Gun Damage Gun Rate of Fire Gun Optimal Range Gun Tracking Speed Gun Accuracy Falloff Drone Range More Drone Range Drone Velocity Drone Optimal Range Drone Damage Drone HP edit: dont forget to stop with roman numbers and use normal numbers huh?
Jennifer Maxwell Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 174	Posted - 2014.09.28 07:13:00 - [103] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: GamerChick42 has some interesting thoughts on this matter in her post, "The Consequences of 'Balance'": http://www.gamerchick.net/2014/09/the-consequences-of-balance.html I'd agree with her opinions, for the most part. I really do hope CCP listens to us about this. I don't want this to turn into some bloody simple thing.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1555	Posted - 2014.09.28 07:29:00 - [104] - Quote Vyktor Abyss wrote: Change is fine and I'd embrace it if they actually introduced new stuff, added more variety for example and stopped doing things that seem like the rock, paper or scissors of our little game leaves us playing more rock, rock, rock. Other than the small fact that the current meta is rock rock & more rock, since it's all about using Meta 4, or T2 in the cases where T2 > Meta 4. All this talk about 'loosing variety' is BS. There is no variety currently, this has greater potential to create variety than the current system. The only area that could use some work is the naming conventions, and even that is a step forward How many of you actually use 'propulsion inhibitor' in your actual speech or typing patterns. It's 'Meta 4 Web' or you drag the link from the market, but you don't type the name out anyway unless you are trying to help a corp mate or newbie find the meta 4 item on the market. So the current name proposal far more reflects actual usage, rather than nostalgia on the part of bitter vets who had to walk uphill barefoot through the snow & broken glass in their day.
Dave Stark 7001	Posted - 2014.09.28 07:43:00 - [105] - Quote Jennifer Maxwell wrote: Dave Stark wrote: while the naming conventions currently, are interesting... they're also a pain in the ******* ass. if i want to fit a ship, i don't want to figure out what the named meta 4 module is, or if part of it's name has quote marks in it or not, etc. while the new names are boring, they're less hassle. and i'd take less hassle over interesting any day of the week. Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm that quick on the uptake and amazingly intelligent. But to me, memorizing the items that I constantly use for pvp is really simple. Hell, memorizing all the modules I use is really simple. I even know the names of the modules that I don't use. i didn't say it wasn't simple. i just said it was a hassle.
Max Deveron Deveron Shipyards and Technology 11	Posted - 2014.09.28 08:05:00 - [106] - Quote Who remembers Incarna? Who was at the Jita Riots or abroad? The name changing.........the idea someone posted at one point early on about Dust514 and buying certain items of the market with AUR. Who the heck says this might be heir future plan....get the cool higher better named stuff in the new NES store to be bought using real cash. or who believes this isnt possible????? Really I am against the name changes....I am even more against losing modules to this module tiercide....rebalance them, add some, tweak them whatever.....but holy christ WHY do we have to make this game like every other MMO out there....EvE is supposed to be harsh, gritty, REAL..... with choices, knowledge from study not just having skills...........sure over time CCP you might force us to swallow this crap....but you will lose vets in the process especially the older crowd....the ones that have been making all your content that gets youi POSITIVE newslines. -or- we could also have another RIOT...except more than jita....gank everything that moves every where....let nullsec invade highsec, block every trade hub....and just basically burn everything down. but i dont see the second option occuring because your already losing your fan base....they are playing games like archeage, star citizen, novus aeterno....hell even i have been slowly enjoying STO more and more and chatting with others that barely log in here or have quit EvE because of tiercide crap. any way before this becomes even more of a rant on my part i'm out.
Scout Vyvorant University of Caille Gallente Federation 17	Posted - 2014.09.28 09:29:00 - [107] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Scout Vyvorant wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Scout ... while I love your idea ... Who proofreads all this? You mean the descriptions of the modules or my posts? If you mean the modules' one, I guess after the submission of the descriptions, once the best is picked, there is going to be some proof reading before making it live, and even so didn't CCP itself made several typos every time they implemented some new description? Typos are going to get fixed, and still I prefer to have a typo that's going to be fixed at the next downtime minipatch than having a sickening amount of modules with the same dull descriptions and names. Yeah I'm talking about the tens of thousands of submissions by thousands of players. The issue starts with "once the best is picked" already. People need to be paid to read through all this stuff. While I love your idea in theory ... ... the execution would be madness. I decided to go to sleep, and see if the night bring any advice to the matter. And it did. http://community.eveonline.com/community/volunteer-program/ EvE online has a volunteer division called Mercury, that should take care of the Lore and Fiction of EvE. Now I don't hear from them since long, I guess their last official post date back in 2008, but don't we let them handle the lore side of this tiercide? Actually, is Mercury still alive? I for one I would love to dig myself into writing lore description of the new Tiericided modules, and I guess I wouldn't be alone in that. I know that probably the descriptions for the small rail guns, at example, will look all alike, but still reading why Caldari corps developed such variations and why instead Gallentian ones developed the small blasters variations of the basic module is going to add that Sci-Fi touch that EvE risk to lose by streamlining the name of the modules. I'm going to do the unprecedented, and wonder what would a CCP dev says about having the mercury team handling the Module Descriptions
Harrison Tato Yamato Holdings 138	Posted - 2014.09.28 10:08:00 - [108] - Quote Monica yolo wrote: How about skills? Shield Recharge Shield HP Armor HP Structure HP Gun Damage More Gun Damage Gun Rate of Fire Gun Optimal Range Gun Tracking Speed Gun Accuracy Falloff Drone Range More Drone Range Drone Velocity Drone Optimal Range Drone Damage Drone HP edit: dont forget to stop with roman numbers and use normal numbers huh? Sounds good to me.
Harrison Tato Yamato Holdings 138	Posted - 2014.09.28 10:14:00 - [109] - Quote Falin Whalen wrote: Nishachara wrote: I feel passionate about the lore, and i know more than 5 people who like eve lore. Your alts don't count. Yeah characters named Rancid McTurdbreath are far more i breaking than module names.
Val'Dore PlanetCorp InterStellar 871	Posted - 2014.09.28 12:45:00 - [110] - Quote Vyktor Abyss wrote: Eve is a game of adapt of die, sure... But when changes are made that serve no purpose other than to make the game more 'accessible' to new players - at the expense of our learned knowledge, something is way off. And on the other hand, maintaining the appearance of complexity without any actual complexity is just silliness. Changes should be made to improve the game, and much like hull tiericice, modules need to be rebalanced so that there is much less clutter and redundancy. It isn't necessarily about complexity, or in EvE's case, pretending to be about complexity. Playing EvE is like getting a college degree, you learn a lot of things that are only included to add to the opportunity cost of attending college, yet have negative zero to do with the actual degree. Think of it as streamlining EvE, as opposed to dumbing it down. Because in actuality, once you pass a certain mental threshold, needless complexity is tedious, uninspiring, and ********. The only people who like such systems are the people who want to seem intellectual, but true intellectuals abhor such gamey systems. SJD I invented Tiericide
Jace Sarice 13398	Posted - 2014.09.28 12:53:00 - [111] - Quote Just throwing in that I also like the idea of corp-related names for modules. Beyond that, meh. I don't shoot things enough anymore to really have an opinion on any of this.
Bas Hauser Hate Me Inc 3	Posted - 2014.09.28 14:04:00 - [112] - Quote Val'Dore wrote: Vyktor Abyss wrote: Eve is a game of adapt of die, sure... But when changes are made that serve no purpose other than to make the game more 'accessible' to new players - at the expense of our learned knowledge, something is way off. And on the other hand, maintaining the appearance of complexity without any actual complexity is just silliness. Changes should be made to improve the game, and much like hull tiericice, modules need to be rebalanced so that there is much less clutter and redundancy. It isn't necessarily about complexity, or in EvE's case, pretending to be about complexity. Playing EvE is like getting a college degree, you learn a lot of things that are only included to add to the opportunity cost of attending college, yet have negative zero to do with the actual degree. Think of it as streamlining EvE, as opposed to dumbing it down. Because in actuality, once you pass a certain mental threshold, needless complexity is tedious, uninspiring, and ********. The only people who like such systems are the people who want to seem intellectual, but true intellectuals abhor such gamey systems.
Priscilla Project Custom Clothing Productions 182	Posted - 2014.09.28 14:57:00 - [113] - Quote Bas Hauser wrote: In your intellectual world ... It's only pseudo. They're not really intelligent, else they'd realise that being cold and shallow isn't intelligent. It is, literally, a blind spot. The most sexy piece of clothing New Eden saw to date! The 'Open Avenue' short dress! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461 Join my mailing list, "wemew", for fast and easy future updates! (without the ")
Val'Dore PlanetCorp InterStellar 871	Posted - 2014.09.28 17:09:00 - [114] - Quote Bas Hauser wrote: Val'Dore wrote: Vyktor Abyss wrote: Eve is a game of adapt of die, sure... But when changes are made that serve no purpose other than to make the game more 'accessible' to new players - at the expense of our learned knowledge, something is way off. And on the other hand, maintaining the appearance of complexity without any actual complexity is just silliness. Changes should be made to improve the game, and much like hull tiericice, modules need to be rebalanced so that there is much less clutter and redundancy. It isn't necessarily about complexity, or in EvE's case, pretending to be about complexity. Playing EvE is like getting a college degree, you learn a lot of things that are only included to add to the opportunity cost of attending college, yet have negative zero to do with the actual degree. Think of it as streamlining EvE, as opposed to dumbing it down. Because in actuality, once you pass a certain mental threshold, needless complexity is tedious, uninspiring, and ********. The only people who like such systems are the people who want to seem intellectual, but true intellectuals abhor such gamey systems. In your intellectual world a marksman would choose a 'good sniper rifle' a photographer a 'good cam' and a passionate driver a 'fast car'. In my less intellectual and abhorred world a marksman would choose a 'Sig SSG 3000' a photographer a 'Nikon D7000' and a passionate driver a 'Dodge Challenger R/T' 'maintaining the appearance of complexity without any actual complexity is just silliness' Really? In gaming? If you think that line holds true you shouldn't be playing anything. Ever. Like I said, if there is an actual difference, go for it. But in EvE there are two kinds of modules, Better and Worse. There is no complexity, not even with the fittings curve ball. In EvE we don't currently choose between different modules in the way you seem to think we do. When you fit a target painter, there is only one you bother with, the rest are pointless. That isn't complexity, complexity would be having several viable choices and having to pick the best one for the fit. You aren't choosing anything, but please by all means, continue to believe you are. SJD I invented Tiericide
Hiply Rustic Aliastra Gallente Federation 206	Posted - 2014.09.28 17:45:00 - [115] - Quote Ridiculous. If someone can't be arsed to spend the trivial amount of time it takes to compare modules and decide which one best fits their skills and ship fitting capabilities, and needs the handholding of purely technically descriptive "good/better/best" naming scheme then I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. It's not about "true intellectuals" this or "pseudo intellectuals that"...it's about maintaining or (here's a radical thought) even improving immersion. Because...it's a game. Unless of course CCP has run out of space on the item database storage box and can't afford more disks...then ok, fine, reduce the number of items. Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." *EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.*
Priscilla Project Custom Clothing Productions 192	Posted - 2014.09.28 17:49:00 - [116] - Quote I have posted my opinion in a really clear fashion there ... ... where it belongs. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5060332#post5060332 The most sexy piece of clothing New Eden saw to date! The 'Open Avenue' short dress! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461 Join my mailing list, "wemew", for fast and easy future updates! (without the ")
Priscilla Project Custom Clothing Productions 192	Posted - 2014.09.28 17:50:00 - [117] - Quote Hiply Rustic wrote: Ridiculous. If someone can't be arsed to spend the trivial amount of time it takes to compare modules and decide which one best fits their skills and ship fitting capabilities, and needs the handholding of purely technically descriptive "good/better/best" naming scheme then I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. It's not about "true intellectuals" this or "pseudo intellectuals that"...it's about maintaining or (here's a radical thought) even improving immersion. Because...it's a game. Unless of course CCP has run out of space on the item database storage box and can't afford more disks...then ok, fine, reduce the number of items. You nail it. A noob and his muscle car. (see my post in the actually relevant thread I've linked above) The most sexy piece of clothing New Eden saw to date! The 'Open Avenue' short dress! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461 Join my mailing list, "wemew", for fast and easy future updates! (without the ")
Glathull Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 762	Posted - 2014.09.28 18:13:00 - [118] - Quote Real life is full of artificial complexity. You go to a grocery store and see 50 different brands of soap. They are all pretty much the same, and they are almost all made by the same company. Same goes for almost everything else in the store. 90% of everything in a Wal-Mart or a Target is made by one of 5 companies. There is no real complexity or difference. Just a bunch of different names and different packaging. One of the reasons that EvE is interesting to me and really sucks me in is that it's got this quality of weird, pointless diversity. It helps make the universe a little more real. Also, when I was a n00b starting out, I couldn't afford 'Arbalest', and I didn't have the skills for t2. I flew a magnificent Kestrel with 'Malkuth' launchers and promptly died in a fire. Ample? Ample isn't for rocket launchers. Ample is for bosoms. And WTF with the light missile launcher nerf? "ZOMG!!! These light missiles I'm rocking are soooooooo friggin powerful! Effing win button is what LMLs are. Die space-pixels!!" --said no one ever. Anyway, yes. I feel like we are losing something: variety just for the sake of variety. I feel like this enforces stereotypes and limits the freedom to come up with really really stupidly bad fits. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance 550	Posted - 2014.09.28 18:42:00 - [119] - Quote Val'Dore wrote: Bas Hauser wrote: Val'Dore wrote: Vyktor Abyss wrote: Eve is a game of adapt of die, sure... But when changes are made that serve no purpose other than to make the game more 'accessible' to new players - at the expense of our learned knowledge, something is way off. And on the other hand, maintaining the appearance of complexity without any actual complexity is just silliness. Changes should be made to improve the game, and much like hull tiericice, modules need to be rebalanced so that there is much less clutter and redundancy. It isn't necessarily about complexity, or in EvE's case, pretending to be about complexity. Playing EvE is like getting a college degree, you learn a lot of things that are only included to add to the opportunity cost of attending college, yet have negative zero to do with the actual degree. Think of it as streamlining EvE, as opposed to dumbing it down. Because in actuality, once you pass a certain mental threshold, needless complexity is tedious, uninspiring, and ********. The only people who like such systems are the people who want to seem intellectual, but true intellectuals abhor such gamey systems. In your intellectual world a marksman would choose a 'good sniper rifle' a photographer a 'good cam' and a passionate driver a 'fast car'. In my less intellectual and abhorred world a marksman would choose a 'Sig SSG 3000' a photographer a 'Nikon D7000' and a passionate driver a 'Dodge Challenger R/T' 'maintaining the appearance of complexity without any actual complexity is just silliness' Really? In gaming? If you think that line holds true you shouldn't be playing anything. Ever. Like I said, if there is an actual difference, go for it. But in EvE there are two kinds of modules, Better and Worse. There is no complexity, not even with the fittings curve ball. In EvE we don't currently choose between different modules in the way you seem to think we do. When you fit a target painter, there is only one you bother with, the rest are pointless. That isn't complexity, complexity would be having several viable choices and having to pick the best one for the fit. You aren't choosing anything, but please by all means, continue to believe you are. I was referring to more in general than just modules to be honest - things like skill requirements for Assault ships, Command ships etc being made easier to skill for, and my particular peeve - Battleships being pretty much nerfed / obsoleted because CCP wants everyone who is not a supercap pilot to fly newbie friendly frigates or T1 logi. Do you remember Escrow? Do you remember buying cap recharger IIs from Escrow for 30m or actually having to do a cost/benefit asessment and fitting bartons or worse on your belt ratting thorax? Or how about being forced to use Named Webs and Warp Scrams/Disrupts that actually had different ranges that mattered because of CPU? - A lot of 'new' players wont remember any of these real choices because CCP have pretty much made T2 as standard fit on everything.... I'm not arguing 30m for a T2 module is correct, but rather that the current "broken" tiers of modules were not always so broken. It is more that poor changes by CCP have obsoleted and ruined any choices that used to exist - particularly in fittings - Tiericide almost always dumped more CPU/Grid on every ship in order to make fits cookie-cut standard T2 replicas. You can sperg all you want there being no real difference NOW, no argument here.... but trusting those CCP guys who actually stuffed up much of the balance by nullifying fitting choices in the first place to "fix" the redundancy is niaive. They will simply remove a bunch of currently unused modules and rename the remaining stuff to Basic module I, Advanced module I and Module II - just because they can't be arsed MAKING interesting differences and choices in modules or because they are too afraid of players of losing control of the meta and enabling players to do stuff they can't think of with the tools they provide - The nano age, the nos nerf, drone bandwidth etc - all rebalanced and removing something different from the game every time... I'm not saying those nerfs were wrong, but hang on - flown a Vagabond recently? Isn't it just a Thorax/Maller/Close Range Brawler I ? For example I'm half expecting them to just full on remove all COSMOS modules from game rather than attempt to make a viable choice out of them. They are "streamlining" all over the place - like removing Data Interfaces from invention, just because they can't be bothered to follow up improve upon or add any more functioning complexity. Things like that actually require effort and time spent improving their product - much easier to simply chop bits out of the code and call it "streamlining for accessibility". I could grumble on and on, but I suspect you all just read "bittervet" anyway and would rather I left the game too. In actuality I have had lots of fun over the 9 years now playing Eve - I have a long term perspective on the game and believe in general it has gotten better over that time it is just newer players cant relate to the fact that eve development and "expansion" has almost stopped. the development has stagnated and - Tiericide - is a lot of minor changes for very little real gameplay improvements - it is more like a plumber unclogging your toilet calling it a "fix" but pushing the problem to your outside drain further downstream. How long have they been doing expansions that are simply rebalancing? The whole net result is the Eve stink gets worse and worse... with no freshening 'content'. Newbies welcome to the dungheap. Yes I did get bitter in the end.
NEONOVUS Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us 936	Posted - 2014.09.28 21:10:00 - [120] - Quote Reduce everything to base forms then build up This is a good way to fix any complex system However we shall see if CCP can match Valve and make it to 2 Even less likely they shall best them and count to 3 Oh well, knew it was coming Rah rah EVE is dead, unsubscribing all my 2 accounts Why is that even a viable threat? I need EVE, its my social life!
Susan Black KA POW POW Inc Late Night Alliance 155	Posted - 2014.09.29 02:42:00 - [121] - Quote Glathull wrote: Ample? Ample isn't for rocket launchers. Ample is for bosoms. You just made me laugh, really really hard. Thanks for that! hehe I love some of the ideas posted in this thread, and I agree that we're losing something by CCP making everything named with the same prefix, or etc. It's kind of that feeling when you go home to a quaint little town that had lots of interesting ma and pa type shops and nook and cranny's to find it's been paved over with cookie cutter suburbs and chain stores. I don't mind consistency, but I think they're going WAY overboard by making every module in the game have the same naming convention. The lack of creativity is very disappointing. www.gamerchick.net @gamerchick42
Krell Kroenen The Devil's Shadow 192	Posted - 2014.09.29 04:39:00 - [122] - Quote Remember a few years ago Eve was pressing the "Eve is Real" Campaign? Can you imagine trying to tell a story like in the trailer they put out with the new mod names? Found here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSxSyv4LC1c for those who don't recall it or haven't seen it. Now imagine if he was telling a different story, maybe how his Ample Missile launchers spewed hot milk errr death upon his foes. Yeah Eve is really now more like WoW than it was. Short attention spans? Unable to read descriptions or stats? Don't worry kiddies Fozzie has you covered. And coming soon flying mounts will be replacing shuttles
Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 359	Posted - 2014.09.29 05:02:00 - [123] - Quote Thead Enco wrote: Mass exodus to Riot = Lack of creativity left at CCP. Maybe riot are planning to do a mortal online that isn't terrible and want staff who already have experience in player driven economics? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 359	Posted - 2014.09.29 05:05:00 - [124] - Quote Krell Kroenen wrote: Remember a few years ago Eve was pressing the "Eve is Real" Campaign? Can you imagine trying to tell a story like in the trailer they put out with the new mod names? Found here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSxSyv4LC1c for those who don't recall it or haven't seen it. Now imagine if he was telling a different story, maybe how his Ample Missile launchers spewed hot milk errr death upon his foes. Yeah Eve is really now more like WoW than it was. Short attention spans? Unable to read descriptions or stats? Don't worry kiddies Fozzie has you covered. And coming soon flying mounts will be replacing shuttles Maybe Legion can have space motorbikes. Something as a counterweight to that cognitive abortion blizzard are putting in their game. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
Kaivar Lancer Unlimited Speciality Networks 550	Posted - 2014.09.29 07:28:00 - [125] - Quote The tears in this thread are disgusting. Who deliberately chooses a meta 1 or meta 2 module? I never use them. Adapt or die. HTFU.
Sal Landry School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 239	Posted - 2014.09.29 07:36:00 - [126] - Quote Kaivar Lancer wrote: tears Kaivar Lancer wrote: HTFU It's great that you think you're the epic hardcore, but really you're just a memespouting ******.
Bas Hauser Hate Me Inc 8	Posted - 2014.09.29 08:22:00 - [127] - Quote Kaivar Lancer wrote: The tears in this thread are disgusting. Who deliberately chooses a meta 1 or meta 2 module? I never use them. Adapt or die. HTFU. Experimental SV-2000 Rapid Light Missile Launcher looks great on minnie ships 'cos those are orange. :) Also, they are OK on a rookie's Bellicose to run level 2 security missions for example. Cheaper too. An Aoede Mining Laser Upgrade - not to mention several other meta 4 modules - costs hundreds and hundreds of millions. Not sure if everyone can afford that even if they are trying so hard to adapt. Anyway, it's about removing flavor and variety and not about being a pro...
Portmanteau Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 12	Posted - 2014.09.29 09:11:00 - [128] - Quote Hiply Rustic wrote: Ridiculous. If someone can't be arsed to spend the trivial amount of time it takes to compare modules and decide which one best fits their skills and ship fitting capabilities, and needs the handholding of a purely technically descriptive "good/better/best" naming scheme then I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. It's not about "true intellectuals" this or "pseudo intellectuals that"...it's about maintaining or (here's a radical thought) even improving immersion. Because...it's a game. Unless of course CCP has run out of space on the item database storage box and can't afford more disks...then ok, fine, reduce the number of items. Spot on pal. ... and really, "Ample" ? get the fecking feck out
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10170	Posted - 2014.09.29 09:18:00 - [129] - Quote Y-S8 HYDROCARBON AFTERBURNER! A FREAKING MUSCLECAR!! Custom Clothing Productions proudly donated prices to the New Eden Capsuleer Writing Contest! (InCharacter only!) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5046531#post5046531
Money Makin Mitch Paid in Full 463	Posted - 2014.09.29 11:14:00 - [130] - Quote thought about this more and read some of the more articulate replies simply put, CCP, you are killing your game. this crap is another reason for me to unsub. i haven't liked many of the 'changes' being introduced lately especially those that remove options and dumb down the game this module tiericide stinks and the renames are ridiculous
Spugg Galdon APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front 487	Posted - 2014.09.29 11:44:00 - [131] - Quote I still think the new naming system is bloody awful. I hate the fact that we didn't get to give any feedback on this. Personally, although it may be more work, I think the naming system should be much broader. Instead of just having a set of prefixes for EVERY module in game, there should be a set of prefixes for each type of module (similar to now but simpler). We need to keep the flavour of the Sci Fi nature of the game whilst making it easier to understand without ruining it. Armour plates are a great example of this because we use materials to seperate the items. We have Steel Nanofiber Titanium Crystalline Carbonite Tungnsten If we loose this for: Upgraded Compact Restrained I think it will look awful and not really make sense! Take armour plates and simply do this to them: Steel - Basic (snowflakes) Titanium - T1 Tungnsten - "Upgraded" (All round best) Nanofiber - Reduced mass penalty but not so good armour boost Crystalline Carbonite - Easiest to fit T2 Steel - T2 version (Best Armour, Most difficult to fit, More mass penalty than upgraded) We keep names that make sense and still appear "Real" becase a "Restrained 800mm armour plate" sounds stupid. Try to be a bit sci fi with shield extenders too. Current: Shield Extender I (T1) Supplemental Barrier Emitter Subordinate Screen Stabilizer Azeotropic Ward Salubrity F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Shield Extender II (T2) We only need 3 meta versions so change the names to: Shield Extender I (T1) or for the sake of continuity - F-S1 Shield Extender (T1) F-S6-R Shield Extender (Lowest Sig Penalty) F-S4-C Shield Extender (Lowest Fitting) F-S9 Shield Extender ("Upgraded") Shield Extender II (T2) or for the sake of continuity - F-S9-2 Shield Extender (T2) The prefixed letters and numbers will become familiar to users. We don't need the words "Ample or Restrained". Also, as suggested earlier. Start branding the things!! Implants are branded so why aren't modules! Examples are easy: Duvolle Labs Armour Repairer Boundless Creation Shield Booster Then lets look at weapons. Instead of the daft prefixes of GÇóUpgraded GÇóCompact GÇóEnduring GÇóAmple GÇóScoped GÇóRestrained Do things like: GR-5 Mounted (Weapon) Where the GR-5 is a high tracking mount EC-12 Coupled (Weapon) Where the EC-12 is a reduced fitting coupling F4r/T Scope Fitted (Weapon) Extended Optimal B-15/cR Scope Fitted (weapon) Extended Falloff HPc-99 Capacitor Mounted (weapon) Reduced Cap Use EC-100 Extended Magazine (Weapon) Expanded Capacity Because I would far prefer to fit a rack of: EC-100 Extended Magazine 425mm Railguns over a rack of Ample 425mm Railguns The point of this huge post being that: As long as the names of modules are consistant in that group of modules then the name can be cool and still be easily recognisable. A gun with extended optimal range will always have the prefix "B-15/cR Scope Fitted" no matter if it's an autocannon, artillery or even a laser. You will always know that the B-15/cR Scope Fitted prefix means "I get extra range with this gun".
Robert Parr Iron Tiger T3 Industries 15	Posted - 2014.09.29 12:47:00 - [132] - Quote Val'Dore wrote: Bas Hauser wrote: Val'Dore wrote: Vyktor Abyss wrote: Eve is a game of adapt of die, sure... But when changes are made that serve no purpose other than to make the game more 'accessible' to new players - at the expense of our learned knowledge, something is way off. And on the other hand, maintaining the appearance of complexity without any actual complexity is just silliness. Changes should be made to improve the game, and much like hull tiericice, modules need to be rebalanced so that there is much less clutter and redundancy. It isn't necessarily about complexity, or in EvE's case, pretending to be about complexity. Playing EvE is like getting a college degree, you learn a lot of things that are only included to add to the opportunity cost of attending college, yet have negative zero to do with the actual degree. Think of it as streamlining EvE, as opposed to dumbing it down. Because in actuality, once you pass a certain mental threshold, needless complexity is tedious, uninspiring, and ********. The only people who like such systems are the people who want to seem intellectual, but true intellectuals abhor such gamey systems. In your intellectual world a marksman would choose a 'good sniper rifle' a photographer a 'good cam' and a passionate driver a 'fast car'. In my less intellectual and abhorred world a marksman would choose a 'Sig SSG 3000' a photographer a 'Nikon D7000' and a passionate driver a 'Dodge Challenger R/T' 'maintaining the appearance of complexity without any actual complexity is just silliness' Really? In gaming? If you think that line holds true you shouldn't be playing anything. Ever. Like I said, if there is an actual difference, go for it. But in EvE there are two kinds of modules, Better and Worse. There is no complexity, not even with the fittings curve ball. In EvE we don't currently choose between different modules in the way you seem to think we do. When you fit a target painter, there is only one you bother with, the rest are pointless. That isn't complexity, complexity would be having several viable choices and having to pick the best one for the fit. You aren't choosing anything, but please by all means, continue to believe you are. Both of you are correct...I get that naming does add something to it; superficial...yes; meaningless....yes; but, that suck-you-in factor means a lot and has a great deal to do with the decision to actually pay for a game. On the other hand, being a very pragmatic person, my final fitting decision is based (after consideration of cost and power/CPU consideration) on just one thing...what is the best module? This strikes at the very heart of why I'm so pissed at Fozzie...He stated up front his intention with all of this balancing was to provide a meaningful role for all of the modules. Then he goes off and does the exact mother-bleep-ing, god-bleep-ed opposite thing....as I have referred to it before...sausage making homogenization...in the end, there's no meaningful choice and your left with what CCP chooses for you...like Wile E. Coyote in the Roadrunner cartoon you think that the ACME corporation is giving you something to help you catch that damn skinny bastard chicken (aka CCP) and it ALWAYS ends up blowing up in your face!!!
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8375	Posted - 2014.09.29 13:17:00 - [133] - Quote Generally i agree with the 'don't dumb it down' crowd when it comes to certain changes. I can't this time because this isn't dumbing anything down. MOST of the modules and equipment in EVE online go un-used. There is ZERO reason to use most named and tech1 items after you can use tech2 except in those odd cases where tech2 isn't the best. CCP changing the modules to be actually useful is a good thing. And if they are going to do that, they HAVE to change the names of those modules to be more descriptive. Even for 'vets' because after all these years we're used to 'tech2 or nothing'. Ship Tiercide did more for this game than any 12 full expansions (all with 'Jesus Features') put together could have. People are FLYING tech1 frigs, dessies and cruisers for more than just luls now. If module Tiercide does even a fraction of what the ship changes did we are in for an awesome time in this game.
Hiply Rustic Aliastra Gallente Federation 217	Posted - 2014.09.29 13:54:00 - [134] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: And if they are going to do that, they HAVE to change the names of those modules to be more descriptive. Even for 'vets' because after all these years we're used to 'tech2 or nothing'. If module Tiercide does even a fraction of what the ship changes did we are in for an awesome time in this game. Right, because none of us know how to use the compare tool and we all forgot how to read anything beyond an item name? To the second comment; seriously? Reducing the number of module variations and dumbing down (to, in some cases, simply stupid names like "Ample") the naming convention means we are in for an awesome time? You're gaming time must be pretty awful at the moment if that's going to improve it. Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." *EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.*
Bas Hauser Hate Me Inc 15	Posted - 2014.09.29 13:57:00 - [135] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: And if they are going to do that, they HAVE to change the names of those modules to be more descriptive. This is not true. They don't really have to change names. At all. We 'vets' will adapt to the changes made to stats like we always do. Finetuning stats to give meaning to abandoned mods is good. Changing names to dumb and meaningless s**t is bad. Period.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8376	Posted - 2014.09.29 14:04:00 - [136] - Quote The above 2 comments are why some people mistake those of us who champion 'cautious progress' for people who don't want any change at all. Point blank, the current 'names' are meaningless, misleading and needlessly complicated. I never support 'dumbing down' the game in the (false) name of 'help the ~~children~~ newbies. But I do support 'de-stupidifying' it. Having names for items that exist only because someone thinks it sounds cool rather than it being practical and descriptive is stupid. For the most part the only people who will ***** about this change are role players, and we all know how sane those types are.... Ship Tiercide made this game better, module tiercide will as well. Don't like it, feel free to call the modules what you like. That's what I do, the came calls them "auto-targeting missiles", they are still FoFs to me...
Bas Hauser Hate Me Inc 18	Posted - 2014.09.29 14:16:00 - [137] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: The above 2 comments are why some people mistake those of us who champion 'cautious progress' for people who don't want any change at all. Point blank, the current 'names' are meaningless, misleading and needlessly complicated. I never support 'dumbing down' the game in the (false) name of 'help the ~~children~~ newbies. But I do support 'de-stupidifying' it. Having names for items that exist only because someone thinks it sounds cool rather than it being practical and descriptive is stupid. For the most part the only people who will ***** about this change are role players, and we all know how sane those types are.... Ship Tiercide made this game better, module tiercide will as well. Don't like it, feel free to call the modules what you like. That's what I do, the came calls them "auto-targeting missiles", they are still FoFs to me... Those meaningless, misleading and needlessly complicated names were there for more than 10 years. If you want to see names like 'Ample Whatever of the Gorilla' and 'Limited Whatever of the Bear' go play a browser game. EVE has its reputation for a reason. Also, suggesting that roleplayers might have problems in their heads is rude, especially when we are talking about gaming.
Hiply Rustic Aliastra Gallente Federation 218	Posted - 2014.09.29 14:30:00 - [138] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: The above 2 comments are why some people mistake those of us who champion 'cautious progress' for people who don't want any change at all. Point blank, the current 'names' are meaningless, misleading and needlessly complicated. I never support 'dumbing down' the game in the (false) name of 'help the ~~children~~ newbies. But I do support 'de-stupidifying' it. Having names for items that exist only because someone thinks it sounds cool rather than it being practical and descriptive is stupid. For the most part the only people who will *** about this change are role players, and we all know how sane those types are.... Ship Tiercide made this game better, module tiercide will as well. Don't like it, feel free to call the modules what you like. That's what I do, the came calls them "auto-targeting missiles", they are still FoFs to me... Right, so you would prefer to drive a "Car, 4 door, 6 cylinder" or a "Scooter, two cylinder" instead of a BMW 528i or a Vespa Primavera. Got it. Boring as hell, understood. Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.**
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10176	Posted - 2014.09.29 14:42:00 - [139] - Quote Hiply Rustic wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: The above 2 comments are why some people mistake those of us who champion 'cautious progress' for people who don't want any change at all. Point blank, the current 'names' are meaningless, misleading and needlessly complicated. I never support 'dumbing down' the game in the (false) name of 'help the ~~children~~ newbies. But I do support 'de-stupidifying' it. Having names for items that exist only because someone thinks it sounds cool rather than it being practical and descriptive is stupid. For the most part the only people who will ***** about this change are role players, and we all know how sane those types are.... Ship Tiercide made this game better, module tiercide will as well. Don't like it, feel free to call the modules what you like. That's what I do, the came calls them "auto-targeting missiles", they are still FoFs to me... Right, so you would prefer to drive a "Car, 4 door, 6 cylinder" or a "Scooter, one cylinder" instead of a BMW 528i or a Vespa Primavera. Got it. Boring as hell, understood. Any naming convention that is not absolutely and solely descriptive is, technically, unnecessarily complicated. If you want to play at being a reductionist then go the rest of the way, don't half-step. Also, as you are a proponent of a radical change it's not likely you're going to be mistaken for someone who wants no change at all. They should remove all the individual names of the ships too, because they are completely unnecessary. It would help all the new players far more if each ship's name was simply it's race, use and shipclass. No one needs shipnames anyway. Same for the drones, of course. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion today! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8377	Posted - 2014.09.29 14:55:00 - [140] - Quote Bas Hauser wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: The above 2 comments are why some people mistake those of us who champion 'cautious progress' for people who don't want any change at all. Point blank, the current 'names' are meaningless, misleading and needlessly complicated. I never support 'dumbing down' the game in the (false) name of 'help the ~~children~~ newbies. But I do support 'de-stupidifying' it. Having names for items that exist only because someone thinks it sounds cool rather than it being practical and descriptive is stupid. For the most part the only people who will ***** about this change are role players, and we all know how sane those types are.... Ship Tiercide made this game better, module tiercide will as well. Don't like it, feel free to call the modules what you like. That's what I do, the came calls them "auto-targeting missiles", they are still FoFs to me... Those meaningless, misleading and needlessly complicated names were there for more than 10 years. If you want to see names like 'Ample Whatever of the Gorilla' and 'Limited Whatever of the Bear' go play a browser game. EVE has its reputation for a reason. Also, suggesting that roleplayers might have problems in their heads is rude, especially when we are talking about gaming. Like i said somewhere above finetuning stats -> good. Changing names -> bad Ship tiericide you mentioned had nothing to do with names, a Rifter is still a Rifter, a Raven is still a Raven. Ship names don't need to be descriptive. Module names do. 'Raven' is fine, all that 'arbalest' and 'malkuth' junk isn't. CCP is doing a good thing here even if they should rethink some of the names ("High Capacity" instead of 'Ample' which makes everyone think of boobs).
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10177	Posted - 2014.09.29 14:58:00 - [141] - Quote Interesting. It never made me think of boobs, which is quite telling. Maybe there is something wrong with you, Jenn? I mean, obviously there is something wrong with all the roleplayers, including myself btw, but what if it's not only them? I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion today! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread
Bas Hauser Hate Me Inc 21	Posted - 2014.09.29 15:03:00 - [142] - Quote Quote: Ship names don't need to be descriptive. Module names do. 'Raven' is fine, all that 'arbalest' and 'malkuth' junk isn't. CCP is doing a good thing here even if they should rethink some of the names ("High Capacity" instead of 'Ample' which makes everyone think of boobs). Since when? Following your theory Raven is totally misleading, reminds me of something small, black and foul smelling while in EVE's reality it's big, steel blue and definitely doesnt smell bad. What's the difference between 'Raven' and 'Arbalest'? I understand you are trying to protect your opinion but you should try harder....
Krell Kroenen The Devil's Shadow 197	Posted - 2014.09.29 15:10:00 - [143] - Quote Bas Hauser wrote: Quote: Ship names don't need to be descriptive. Module names do. 'Raven' is fine, all that 'arbalest' and 'malkuth' junk isn't. CCP is doing a good thing here even if they should rethink some of the names ("High Capacity" instead of 'Ample' which makes everyone think of boobs). Since when? Following your theory Raven is totally misleading, reminds me of something small, black and foul smelling while in EVE's reality it's big, steel blue and definitely doesnt smell bad. What's the difference between 'Raven' and 'Arbalest'? I understand you are tring to protect your opinion but you should try harder.... I agree a little more effort is needed. I mean with out some clicking and reading a new player isn't going to know what a Raven is. So why shouldn't it be renamed to keep it nice and simple along with the modules? God forbid Eve might have a few barriers like clicking and reading to play the game.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8377	Posted - 2014.09.29 15:12:00 - [144] - Quote Hiply Rustic wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: The above 2 comments are why some people mistake those of us who champion 'cautious progress' for people who don't want any change at all. Point blank, the current 'names' are meaningless, misleading and needlessly complicated. I never support 'dumbing down' the game in the (false) name of 'help the ~~children~~ newbies. But I do support 'de-stupidifying' it. Having names for items that exist only because someone thinks it sounds cool rather than it being practical and descriptive is stupid. For the most part the only people who will ***** about this change are role players, and we all know how sane those types are.... Ship Tiercide made this game better, module tiercide will as well. Don't like it, feel free to call the modules what you like. That's what I do, the came calls them "auto-targeting missiles", they are still FoFs to me... Right, so you would prefer to drive a "Car, 4 door, 6 cylinder" or a "Scooter, one cylinder" instead of a BMW 528i or a Vespa Primavera. Got it. Boring as hell, understood. Any naming convention that is not absolutely and solely descriptive is, technically, unnecessarily complicated. If you want to play at being a reductionist then go the rest of the way, don't half-step. Also, as you are a proponent of a radical change it's not likely you're going to be mistaken for someone who wants no change at all. Changing useless titles isn't a radical change. It's changing a useless title. Items in a game should have names that actually mean something, so yea I'd rather have "Large Pulse Laser" rather than "Geodynamics Model XIV type3 subsection 345 Undulating Destructo Ray". Yea a lot of EVE module names are that stupid. And no, personally I don't give a damn about flashy car names, a car is a thing that gets me back and forth to work or play, the people who DO care about such things remind me of these guys.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8377	Posted - 2014.09.29 15:18:00 - [145] - Quote Krell Kroenen wrote: I agree a little more effort is needed. I mean with out some clicking and reading a new player isn't going to know what a Raven is. So why shouldn't it be renamed to keep it nice and simple along with the modules? God forbid Eve might have a few barriers like clicking and reading to play the game. I don't personally care what new players think. I'm not in favor of doing things "for the children" so to speak. But EVE has needed to get rid of the dumb module names for a long time now. Half the time you can't tell whether a thing is a reactor control or a power diagnostic unit without having to do Ph.D level research. Same with things like co-processors and auto targeting units. And don't even get me started on the Signal Amps.
Hiply Rustic Aliastra Gallente Federation 219	Posted - 2014.09.29 15:23:00 - [146] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Hiply Rustic wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: The above 2 comments are why some people mistake those of us who champion 'cautious progress' for people who don't want any change at all. Point blank, the current 'names' are meaningless, misleading and needlessly complicated. I never support 'dumbing down' the game in the (false) name of 'help the ~~children~~ newbies. But I do support 'de-stupidifying' it. Having names for items that exist only because someone thinks it sounds cool rather than it being practical and descriptive is stupid. For the most part the only people who will *** about this change are role players, and we all know how sane those types are.... Ship Tiercide made this game better, module tiercide will as well. Don't like it, feel free to call the modules what you like. That's what I do, the came calls them "auto-targeting missiles", they are still FoFs to me... Right, so you would prefer to drive a "Car, 4 door, 6 cylinder" or a "Scooter, one cylinder" instead of a BMW 528i or a Vespa Primavera. Got it. Boring as hell, understood. Any naming convention that is not absolutely and solely descriptive is, technically, unnecessarily complicated. If you want to play at being a reductionist then go the rest of the way, don't half-step. Also, as you are a proponent of a radical change it's not likely you're going to be mistaken for someone who wants no change at all. Changing useless titles isn't a radical change. It's changing a useless title. Items in a game should have names that actually mean something, so yea I'd rather have "Large Pulse Laser" rather than "Geodynamics Model XIV type3 subsection 345 Undulating Destructo Ray". Yea a lot of EVE module names are that stupid. And no, personally I don't give a damn about flashy car names, a car is a thing that gets me back and forth to work or play, the people who DO care about such things remind me of these guys. Fair enough, so lose the ship names too Jenn. They are completely non-descriptive and in no way fit with your self-described preferences. Based on your logic, and your now obvious disdain (pretty f'ing insulting, by the way) for anyone who thinks otherwise, there should be no items names in the game that are not purely functionally descriptive. You've now said so yourself. Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.**
Bas Hauser Hate Me Inc 23	Posted - 2014.09.29 15:25:00 - [147] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Changing useless titles isn't a radical change. It's changing a useless title. Items in a game should have names that actually mean something, so yea I'd rather have "Large Pulse Laser" rather than "Geodynamics Model XIV type3 subsection 345 Undulating Destructo Ray". Yea a lot of EVE module names are that stupid. I don't want your version of EVE where we have to forfeit names like Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters (we already did) or Arch Gistum Depredator (sooo cool) or Tachyon Beam Laser or insert your favorite name here. That EVE would be a boring and desolate place to be.
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10178	Posted - 2014.09.29 15:28:00 - [148] - Quote Please don't forget about the horrible drones! How can anyone expect people to remember what they are for when they are called hobgoblins, for example? What if a new player thinks it's a fantasy game? Or will he expect a drone to be named spiderman, will look for it and feel horrible disappointment? Not to forget the completely misleading HammerHeads and Warriors! I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion today! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1660	Posted - 2014.09.29 15:30:00 - [149] - Quote Ocih wrote: The lore needs to be modified to support the lore. An Amarr fleet is gimped when fighting Caldari fleets because they are seen as alliance members. A Gallente fleet is gimped against Minmatar (Gallente Exp resist) because they are allies. Yet each empire has a pirate faction and if the Gallente wanted to support the Minmatar in an operation to purge Angel Cartel it would be ritual suicide. Caldari supporting Amarr in an effort to purge Blood Raiders would have a similar effect. As for true tiericide, I have little faith in the ability or willingness to do it. Tachon Beam with Gleam T2 crystal Heavy Pulse With Conflag The Tachon are 40% more PG to fit, you lose 20% dps, you lose tracking and it's all for 2km of Optimal. (10%) That's the case for all 3 of the ranged weap/ ammo in the T2. They nerf stuff so hard it becomes garbage. I'd have more faith in tiericide if there wasn't so much play style manipulation in the game. The example used was to stop 220km battleship fleets and it worked. The question is, why was there a need to stop them and why was it CCP's job to stop it? That IS NOT the reason of the resistance profiles. Resistance profiles are made to be strong agaisnt your ENEMY race. Amarr have VERY high explosive and high Kinetic resistance (minmatar primary and secondary damage types. Minmatar have very high EM and high Thermal.. guess what? Amarr primary and secondary damage types. Same for the other 2. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Sal Landry School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 246	Posted - 2014.09.29 15:32:00 - [150] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Interesting. It never made me think of boobs, which is quite telling. Maybe there is something wrong with you, Jenn? I mean, obviously there is something wrong with all the roleplayers, including myself btw, but what if it's not only them? http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ample adjective \-êam-p+Öl\ : having or providing enough or more than enough of what is needed : quite large GÇöused to describe a person's (especially a woman's) body as being large in usually an attractive way bold added by me
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10178	Posted - 2014.09.29 15:34:00 - [151] - Quote Sal Landry wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Interesting. It never made me think of boobs, which is quite telling. Maybe there is something wrong with you, Jenn? I mean, obviously there is something wrong with all the roleplayers, including myself btw, but what if it's not only them? http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ample adjective \-êam-p+Öl\ : having or providing enough or more than enough of what is needed : quite large GÇöused to describe a person's (especially a woman's) body as being large in usually an attractive way bold added by me She was talking about "high capacity". I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion today! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread
Ocih Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums 770	Posted - 2014.09.29 15:38:00 - [152] - Quote If CCP is determined to turn the meta module system in to a tree of one trick ponies, name them after the rigs and be done with it. I still think we are wagging the dog in terms of name debates but you learn to stop trying to matter after a while.
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 5446	Posted - 2014.09.29 15:57:00 - [153] - Quote I would like to pay homage to the bread and butter of any missile-spewer's arsenal: Target Painter I Partial Weapon Navigation Peripheral Weapon Navigation Diameter Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Target Painter II At present, as you work up through the T1-meta X ranks, the items gradually require less CPU & capacitor, while gaining optimal range, falloff, and signature radius bonus. They also become rarer, which means that there is a tradeoff between the power of an item and your ability to fund its acquisition. When searching the market for "target painter" you will only find "Target Painter I", "Target Painter II" and the various storyline, deadspace and officer variants that have "target painter" in their name. When searching the assets window for "target painter" you will get all the modules that are in the class "target painter". Thus I would like to suggest that standardising naming for the sake of easier discovery in the market, is a furphy. So while some misguided developer might think that the following list is perfectly fine and much easier for "new players", I disagree. This list is entirely devoid of fun: Compact Target Painter Enduring Target Painter Scoped Target Painter Restrained Target Painter Sure, as part of tiericide it might be interesting to adjust the benefits of each target painter, such that the PWN has reduced fitting cost (i.e.: is more accessible to low-skill characters), the PWND has lower capacitor use (again, low skilled players), the PWNT gains longer range, while the PWNAGE gains signature radius bonus. A much better aid to accessibility for new players is to improve the market search facility to return items whose group matches the search criteria. Thus "hybrid" will return rail guns and blasters, "target painter" will return all the PWNT and PWNAGE alongside Target Painters and hardwirings, modules or rigs that alter the performance of that electronic warfare system. If the aim of the renaming process is to make items more discoverable, why not focus on better discovery tools rather than brute-forcing naming conventions to make things show up given the current discovery tools? Just for giggles, here's an alternate view which combines both the "99% fun free naming lite" scheme and the "slightly obscure but funny" naming scheme of old: Weapon Navigation I Compact Partial Weapon Navigation Enduring Peripheral Weapon Navigation Diameter Scoped Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter Restrained Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Weapon Navigation II (with the two related skills becoming 'Weapon Navigation Endurance' and 'Weapon Navigation Restraint' LOL) Because nothing builds on a joke like talking about "Restrained PWNAGE". But nothing kills the joke faster than: Target Painter I Compact 'PWN' Target Painter Enduring 'PWND' Target Painter Scoped 'PWNT' Target Painter Restrained 'PWNAGE' Target Painter Target Painter II But that's just me. Sorry for having basically the same rant twice in the one thread. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
Zen Guerrilla CTRL-Q Iron Oxide. 242	Posted - 2014.09.29 16:03:00 - [154] - Quote Seriously CCP. It took me ******* ages to memorize all the different meta mods and their weird names. Why should those filthy casuals who join eve now have it easier? CCP will probably make Highsec safe for caerbears next or something. CCP your dumbing down eve! All the good guys went to Riot! CCP i want you to not change anything ever again because i am aqfraid others might have it easier then me. THIS IS AN OUTERAGE! pew pew
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 5520	Posted - 2014.09.29 16:08:00 - [155] - Quote I have to say I like the idea of breaking down the meta modules and rebalancing them with unique specialities but... The new naming conventions just seem a bit.... idk, not enough psshhh Go back and do it all again. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8380	Posted - 2014.09.29 17:12:00 - [156] - Quote Hiply Rustic wrote: Fair enough, so lose the ship names too Jenn. They are completely non-descriptive and in no way fit with your self-described preferences. Based on your logic, and your now obvious disdain (pretty f'ing insulting, by the way) for anyone who thinks otherwise, there should be no items names (ships, being items, fall into this category) in the game that are not purely functionally descriptive. You've now said so yourself. On the internet, you know you are winning an argument when the opposing poster has to lie. I've explained why ships and modules are different (EVE is a spaceship game, not a module game, of course the ships will have cool sounding names). This game doesn't never every rock and every pebble to have some futuristic sounding name. It's it's a Pulse laser, call it a pulse laser and be done. I think this is basically what CCP is doing, and I'm glad they are. Sorry is a thing making sense is 'boring' to you.
Bas Hauser Hate Me Inc 28	Posted - 2014.09.29 17:35:00 - [157] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: EVE is a spaceship game Ehhh. Understatement of the century... Did you know there are things like industry, research, marketing? My gf back in 2005 was so obsessed with those things she havent left the station for weeks! Her best ships was a Velator! Based on the numbers it's a 'mods' game rather than a spaceship game, but frankly, it's neither. For the rocks and pebbles, you are wrong or you missed the course on overview basics: there are things like Veldspar, Kernite, etc, and Strange Rock Formation too! Rename those as well, don't you think? Like Big Yellow Ore, Small Bluish Ore... Again, try harder.
Medalyn Isis Rosewood Productions Stain Confederation 319	Posted - 2014.09.29 17:37:00 - [158] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Please don't forget about the horrible drones! How can anyone expect people to remember what they are for when they are called hobgoblins, for example? What if a new player thinks it's a fantasy game? Or will he expect a drone to be named spiderman, will look for it and feel horrible disappointment Exactly. Can we just have the following drone naming convention. Gallente Drone I Restrained Gallente Drone I Ample Gallente Drone I Gallente Drone II Amarr Drone I Restrained Amarr Drone I Ample Amarr Drone I Amarr Drone II ....... This would really take out a lot of the confusion with the current naming system, as right now it is difficult for a new player to work out which drone to choose with all the confusing names on offer.
Hiply Rustic Aliastra Gallente Federation 223	Posted - 2014.09.29 17:40:00 - [159] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Hiply Rustic wrote: Fair enough, so lose the ship names too Jenn. They are completely non-descriptive and in no way fit with your self-described preferences. Based on your logic, and your now obvious disdain (pretty f'ing insulting, by the way) for anyone who thinks otherwise, there should be no items names (ships, being items, fall into this category) in the game that are not purely functionally descriptive. You've now said so yourself. On the internet, you know you are winning an argument when the opposing poster has to lie. I've explained why ships and modules are different (EVE is a spaceship game, not a module game, of course the ships will have cool sounding names). This game doesn't never every rock and every pebble to have some futuristic sounding name. It's it's a Pulse laser, call it a pulse laser and be done. I think this is basically what CCP is doing, and I'm glad they are. Sorry is a thing making sense is 'boring' to you. No Jenn, you are not winning...at least not because someone is lying here, at least not me....if that's your criteria. You've explained why, in your head, one item is different from another. Good for you. :) You went right for the "no, I don't care about what vehicles are named" comment and went so far as to offer up a pretty insulting opinion of people who do. While a module is not a spaceship, a spaceship damn sure is a vehicle. You, not me, went completely reductionist on the subject and I simply used what you said. You can keep moving the bar all you like. Me, I simply took what you said to a logical conclusion. I did not take it to an illogical extreme. But hey, if it makes you good to feel like you're winning then by all means feel that way. Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." *EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.*
Hiply Rustic Aliastra Gallente Federation 223	Posted - 2014.09.29 17:42:00 - [160] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Please don't forget about the horrible drones! How can anyone expect people to remember what they are for when they are called hobgoblins, for example? What if a new player thinks it's a fantasy game? Or will he expect a drone to be named spiderman, will look for it and feel horrible disappointment Exactly. Can we just have the following drone naming convention. Gallente Drone I Restrained Gallente Drone I Ample Gallente Drone I Gallente Drone II Amarr Drone I Restrained Amarr Drone I Ample Amarr Drone I Amarr Drone II ....... This would really take out a lot of the confusion with the current naming system, as right now it is difficult for a new player to work out which drone to choose with all the confusing names on offer. Are the restrained drones the ones in handfcuffs? Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." *EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.*
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8380	Posted - 2014.09.29 17:48:00 - [161] - Quote Bas Hauser wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: EVE is a spaceship game Ehhh. Understatement of the century... Did you know there are things like industry, research, marketing? My gf back in 2005 was so obsessed with those things she havent left the station for weeks! Her best ships was a Velator! Based on the numbers it's a 'mods' game rather than a spaceship game, but frankly, it's neither. For the rocks and pebbles, you are wrong or you missed the course on overview basics: there are things like Veldspar, Kernite, etc, and Strange Rock Formation too! Rename those as well, don't you think? Like Big Yellow Ore, Small Bluish Ore... Again, try harder. We are talking about MODULES here. Not rocks, not spaceships. No, it's not ok to change the names of the spaceships, yes it is ok with the modules. I don't understand why some of you can't stay on topic. Renaming the spaceship or rocks would be dumb. The MODULES, however, are just tools that do certain things and CCP seems to want to get rid of 'needless' complexity of the (heretofore stupid) names while retooling the actual items to be useful. CCP isn't doing any dumbing down here (i'd be the 1st to protest if they were, ask anyone, trying to make EVE 'noob friendly' is a fools errand), they are un-dumbing a naming scheme (along with actual item stats) that's been dumb for a decade.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8380	Posted - 2014.09.29 17:53:00 - [162] - Quote Hiply Rustic wrote: Your view being as limited as it is may be what's clouding your judgement. My judgment lol. I'm not the one on here complaining that a game company is doing something wrong for making items in a game sound less ridiculous. This thread should be linked in the urban dictionary as an example of '1st world problems' lol.
Money Makin Mitch Paid in Full 466	Posted - 2014.09.29 17:57:00 - [163] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Hiply Rustic wrote: Your view being as limited as it is may be what's clouding your judgement. My judgment lol. I'm not the one on here complaining that a game company is doing something wrong for making items in a game sound less ridiculous. This thread should be linked in the urban dictionary as an example of '1st world problems' lol. Erm, the current names sound sci-fi-y and give the game atmosphere. Ample, Restrained. Scoped blah blah blah are what sound ridiculous. This is game-breaking imo. Another straw on the ******* camel's back. I can't wait for Fozzie to get fired or poached by Riot.
Bas Hauser Hate Me Inc 36	Posted - 2014.09.29 17:59:00 - [164] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Bas Hauser wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: EVE is a spaceship game Ehhh. Understatement of the century... Did you know there are things like industry, research, marketing? My gf back in 2005 was so obsessed with those things she havent left the station for weeks! Her best ships was a Velator! Based on the numbers it's a 'mods' game rather than a spaceship game, but frankly, it's neither. For the rocks and pebbles, you are wrong or you missed the course on overview basics: there are things like Veldspar, Kernite, etc, and Strange Rock Formation too! Rename those as well, don't you think? Like Big Yellow Ore, Small Bluish Ore... Again, try harder. We are talking about MODULES here. Not rocks, not spaceships. No, it's not ok to change the names of the spaceships, yes it is ok with the modules. I don't understand why some of you can't stay on topic. Renaming the spaceship or rocks would be dumb. The MODULES, however, are just tools that do certain things and CCP seems to want to get rid of 'needless' complexity of the (heretofore stupid) names while retooling the actual items to be useful. CCP isn't doing any dumbing down here (i'd be the 1st to protest if they were, ask anyone, trying to make EVE 'noob friendly' is a fools errand), they are un-dumbing a naming scheme (along with actual item stats) that's been dumb for a decade. Calling a yellow rock Veldspar is good you say. Calling a freaking big spaceship Raven is good you say. Calling a missile launcher Arbalest Heavy Missile Launher is not good you say. Would you kindly explain your logic here? If you think that name is confusing and you are too lazy to compare stuff and remember names, don't you think you are under - or far above - the recommended age to play this game?
Guttripper State War Academy Caldari State 547	Posted - 2014.09.29 18:00:00 - [165] - Quote *just remembered CCP changed the skill "Armor Honeycombing" to "Armor Layering" so people would not be confused even though they are opposite in real life meaning.
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10184	Posted - 2014.09.29 18:04:00 - [166] - Quote This is like explaining how salt tastes like. People who lack understanding of emotional depth can in no way or form be explained what they are missing. You are, literally, trying to explain a blind person how it's like to see. Some people only exist as half a person, without them ever being able to live as full. Argueing with these people is nonsense, really. What they think is irrelevant. What matters is that we bring the point accross to CCP. You people are wasting your time talking here with someone who in no way or form has any relevance to the matter, instead of posting where it actually matters, or finding another smart way to get the point across. How about you not-emotionally-shallow people stop this and rather talk with me about how we can try to change this stupidity? We already lost the fight anyway, as Oceanus hits tomorrow ... ... and barely anyone posted in the relevant thread. Instead we all got sucked in into this irrelevant bullshit, with you people wasting time with irrelevant nonsense talking to people who do not matter in the slightest. Contact me if you actually care ... ... or get lost if all you wanna do is argue about irrelevant opinions anyway. Because that's not helping in the slightest! o7 I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion today! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread
Bas Hauser Hate Me Inc 38	Posted - 2014.09.29 18:17:00 - [167] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: We already lost the fight anyway, as Oceanus hits tomorrow ... ... and barely anyone posted in the relevant thread. If you are talking about the dev blog thread thats just as pontless as this one. Oceanus will be deplyed no matter what, and we gonna have a couple of weeks till next patch (nov 4) to let our voices heard on the matter of ****** module names. Until then it's just a street brawl. This: "CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey guys. Thanks for the feedback so far. We're doing some discussion internally about the concerns some people have expressed about the naming. I will say that we absolutely reject any argument that attempts to claim that obscure name memorization should somehow be a requirement to play EVE. It's not "dumbing down the game" to make systems more easily understandable. However some of the concerns about the lore and flavour have merit and we're talking about what we might change to better address those concerns. Nothing related to this will be changing for Oceanus, but everything can be iterated upon. Also, if you've read the patch notes or dev blog today you'll have seen that we made an adjustment to the Restrained Cap Flux Coil stats. We had some wires crossed internally and thanks to your feedback we've cleared up the erroneous stats. The Restrained Cap Flux Coil will indeed have reduced drawback instead of increased drawback. It will have a capacitor pool penalty of -10% and a recharge speed bonus of 28%. Thanks." Period.
Medalyn Isis Rosewood Productions Stain Confederation 321	Posted - 2014.09.29 18:21:00 - [168] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: This is like explaining how salt tastes like. People who lack understanding of emotional depth can in no way or form be explained what they are missing. You are, literally, trying to explain a blind person how it's like to see. Some people only exist as half a person, without them ever being able to live as full. Argueing with these people is nonsense, really. What they think is irrelevant. What matters is that we bring the point accross to CCP. You people are wasting your time talking here with someone who in no way or form has any relevance to the matter, instead of posting where it actually matters, or finding another smart way to get the point across. How about you not-emotionally-shallow people stop this and rather talk with me about how we can try to change this stupidity? We already lost the fight anyway, as Oceanus hits tomorrow ... ... and barely anyone posted in the relevant thread. But as this is only the first wave of stupid changes, there's still time for us to do something actually relevant. Instead we all got sucked in into this irrelevant bullshit, with you people wasting time with irrelevant nonsense talking to people who do not matter in regards to a solution! Contact me if you actually care ... ... or get lost if all you wanna do is argue about irrelevant opinions anyway. Because that's not helping in the slightest! o7 This is GD, so to be expected. I posted in the proper thread a week ago, and guess what, no trolls, no Jenn, just everyone saying the new changes suck not only because of the awful names, but also because it doesn't even accomplish the objectives of tiericide, as meta 0 modules still suck and have no purpose. Literally EVERYONE is saying these changes suck except for the special snowflake Jenn.
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10187	Posted - 2014.09.29 18:26:00 - [169] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: This is GD, so to be expected. I posted in the proper thread a week ago, and guess what, no trolls, no Jenn, just everyone saying the new changes suck not only because of the awful names, but also because it doesn't even accomplish the objectives of tiericide, as meta 0 modules still suck and have no purpose. Literally EVERYONE is saying these changes suck except for the special snowflake Jenn. Medalyn. Look at what you wrote ... ... and ask yourself ... ... Is this helpfull in regards to finding a solution? The obvious answer is: No. Does it make you feel better to write it? Yes. Does that indicate that you are seriously angry about the topic ... ... and about people who do not agree with you? Yes. While I understand both points ... ... wouldn't it be far more meaningfull to talk with those who agree with you? People who actually know how to move things? Like ... me? See my point? See ... I have gotten two Likes for my post above ... ~~... but no one contacted me.~~ ... I have received a mail just now and I'll read it. xD Anyhow ... Do you people want to be taken seriously ... ... or is all you want to do simply puke your opinions around? Because that is NOT helpfull at all, you know? It's literally just puking around your anger against people who do not behave in a way that makes your brain feel comfortable. Pointless to the matter, really! My offer still stands. If you people rather be alone ... that's fine too ... ... but that's not helpfull in regards to the interest we all share. And that's what matters, right? Right. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion today! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread
Medalyn Isis Rosewood Productions Stain Confederation 322	Posted - 2014.09.29 18:30:00 - [170] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: This is GD, so to be expected. I posted in the proper thread a week ago, and guess what, no trolls, no Jenn, just everyone saying the new changes suck not only because of the awful names, but also because it doesn't even accomplish the objectives of tiericide, as meta 0 modules still suck and have no purpose. Literally EVERYONE is saying these changes suck except for the special snowflake Jenn. Medalyn. Look at what you wrote ... ... and ask yourself ... ... Is this helpfull in regards to finding a solution? The obvious answer is: No. Does it make you feel better to write it? Yes. Does that indicate that you are seriously angry about the topic ... ... and about people who do not agree with you? Yes. While I understand both points ... ... wouldn't it be far more meaningfull to talk with those who agree with you? People who actually know how to move things? Like ... me? See my point? See ... I have gotten two Likes for my post above ... ~~... but no one contacted me.~~ ... I have received a mail just now and I'll read it. xD Anyhow ... Do you people want to be taken seriously ... ... or is all you want to do simply puke your opinions around? Because that is NOT helpfull at all, you know? It's literally just puking around your anger against people who do not behave in a way that makes your brain feel comfortable. Pointless to the matter, really! My offer still stands. If you people rather be alone ... that's fine too ... ... but that's not helpfull in regards to the interest we all share. And that's what matters, right? Right. Lol. I know you love GD Sol, but it is a meaningless cess pit full of trolls. All sensible discussion has already taken place in the information portal. I'm just posting here to jump on the bandwagon and bash stupid trolls like Jenn for lols.
Altirius Saldiaro Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 138	Posted - 2014.09.29 18:31:00 - [171] - Quote Im fine with the new changes.
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10187	Posted - 2014.09.29 18:37:00 - [172] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: Lol. I know you love GD Sol, but it is a meaningless cess pit full of trolls. All sensible discussion has already taken place in the information portal. I'm just posting here to jump on the bandwagon and bash stupid trolls like Jenn for lols. And you are one of them. There is no need for discussion. Discussion is irrelevant. It leads nowhere. 'Discussion' is a part of "Divide and Conquer", which is a technique to divide the people to make them easily conquerable. Do you really care about these changes ... ... or do you only care about puking around your meaningless opinion? Because that's what you do. You can keep discussing all you want ... it's irrelevant. No one relevant really cares about discussing. It only helps them, because you remove your attention from what actually matters. I still only received one mail and it's not from you. I'm waiting ...... I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion today! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8381	Posted - 2014.09.29 18:42:00 - [173] - Quote Bas Hauser wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Bas Hauser wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: EVE is a spaceship game Ehhh. Understatement of the century... Did you know there are things like industry, research, marketing? My gf back in 2005 was so obsessed with those things she havent left the station for weeks! Her best ships was a Velator! Based on the numbers it's a 'mods' game rather than a spaceship game, but frankly, it's neither. For the rocks and pebbles, you are wrong or you missed the course on overview basics: there are things like Veldspar, Kernite, etc, and Strange Rock Formation too! Rename those as well, don't you think? Like Big Yellow Ore, Small Bluish Ore... Again, try harder. We are talking about MODULES here. Not rocks, not spaceships. No, it's not ok to change the names of the spaceships, yes it is ok with the modules. I don't understand why some of you can't stay on topic. Renaming the spaceship or rocks would be dumb. The MODULES, however, are just tools that do certain things and CCP seems to want to get rid of 'needless' complexity of the (heretofore stupid) names while retooling the actual items to be useful. CCP isn't doing any dumbing down here (i'd be the 1st to protest if they were, ask anyone, trying to make EVE 'noob friendly' is a fools errand), they are un-dumbing a naming scheme (along with actual item stats) that's been dumb for a decade. Calling a yellow rock Veldspar is good you say. Calling a freaking big spaceship Raven is good you say. Calling a missile launcher Arbalest Heavy Missile Launher is not good you say. Would you kindly explain your logic here? If you think that name is confusing and you are too lazy to compare stuff and remember names, don't you think you are under - or far above - the recommended age to play this game? CCP disagrees with you. I'm glad they do.
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10188	Posted - 2014.09.29 18:46:00 - [174] - Quote People ... stop argueing with this empty hull and start doing something meaningfull. You are forgetting that, while you waste your time trying to explain a blind person how it is to see ... ... that there are more important things to do in regards to your interests. Is all that matters really that others tell you that you are right? Is all that matters really that you have to make others admit that you are right? Do you people really lack self confidence so much, that this has become relevant? That's nuts. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion today! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread
Morihei Akachi Nishida Corporation 98	Posted - 2014.09.29 19:09:00 - [175] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: CCP disagrees with you. And quite apart from all the polemics, that is an interesting observation. Because they clearly didn't always. At some point in the past, when these modules were first being rolled out, some dev or devs clearly put considerable time and creativity into making up names for modules that sounded realistic and plausible for an advanced future technological civilization. And I imagine it was probably really fun. So somewhere along the line all that work that someone did has gone from being "a contribution to the richness and flavour of New Eden" to being "a barrier to getting into the game." I think that's an interesting change of perspective, and I'd be curious to know what precipitated it. Your spirit is the true shield.
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10188	Posted - 2014.09.29 19:31:00 - [176] - Quote Here, you sissies, empty hulls and pointless discussers. This is part of a post by CCP Fozzie. CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey guys. Thanks for the feedback so far. We're doing some discussion internally about the concerns some people have expressed about the naming. I will say that we absolutely reject any argument that attempts to claim that obscure name memorization should somehow be a requirement to play EVE. It's not "dumbing down the game" to make systems more easily understandable. However some of the concerns about the lore and flavour have merit and we're talking about what we might change to better address those concerns. Nothing related to this will be changing for Oceanus, but everything can be iterated upon. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion today! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread
Hiply Rustic Aliastra Gallente Federation 228	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:25:00 - [177] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Here, you sissies, empty hulls and pointless discussers. This is part of a post by CCP Fozzie. CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey guys. Thanks for the feedback so far. We're doing some discussion internally about the concerns some people have expressed about the naming. I will say that we absolutely reject any argument that attempts to claim that obscure name memorization should somehow be a requirement to play EVE. It's not "dumbing down the game" to make systems more easily understandable. However some of the concerns about the lore and flavour have merit and we're talking about what we might change to better address those concerns. Nothing related to this will be changing for Oceanus, but everything can be iterated upon. Well, what is it you have in mind? Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." *EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.*
Nerva Auris Hedion University Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:48:00 - [178] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: We are talking about MODULES here. Not rocks, not spaceships. No, it's not ok to change the names of the spaceships, yes it is ok with the modules. I don't understand why some of you can't stay on topic. Renaming the spaceship or rocks would be dumb. The MODULES, however, are just tools that do certain things and CCP seems to want to get rid of 'needless' complexity of the (heretofore stupid) names while retooling the actual items to be useful. CCP isn't doing any dumbing down here (i'd be the 1st to protest if they were, ask anyone, trying to make EVE 'noob friendly' is a fools errand), they are un-dumbing a naming scheme (along with actual item stats) that's been dumb for a decade. Everything in the game is just a tool for doing something else. You still haven't clarified the reasons behind "Creative/interesting names for x and y things are good, creative/interesting names for z things are stupid and bad wrong!" Why do we need 'Raven' instead of 'Caldari Missile Battleship'? Why do we need 'Veldspar' instead of 'Tritanium-Pyerite Asteroid'? Why do we need 'Tritanium' or 'Pyerite' instead of 'Mineral 1' and 'Mineral 2'. That would actually simplify mining immensely, cause we could just have '1-2 Asteroid', or '1-2-4 Asteroid' telling you exactly what minerals every asteroid contains without the needless complexity and suffering of clicking 'show information'.
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10189	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:59:00 - [179] - Quote Nerva Auris wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: We are talking about MODULES here. Not rocks, not spaceships. No, it's not ok to change the names of the spaceships, yes it is ok with the modules. I don't understand why some of you can't stay on topic. Renaming the spaceship or rocks would be dumb. The MODULES, however, are just tools that do certain things and CCP seems to want to get rid of 'needless' complexity of the (heretofore stupid) names while retooling the actual items to be useful. CCP isn't doing any dumbing down here (i'd be the 1st to protest if they were, ask anyone, trying to make EVE 'noob friendly' is a fools errand), they are un-dumbing a naming scheme (along with actual item stats) that's been dumb for a decade. Everything in the game is just a tool for doing something else. You still haven't clarified the reasons behind "Creative/interesting names for x and y things are good, creative/interesting names for z things are stupid and bad wrong!" Why do we need 'Raven' instead of 'Caldari Missile Battleship'? Why do we need 'Veldspar' instead of 'Tritanium-Pyerite Asteroid'? Why do we need 'Tritanium' or 'Pyerite' instead of 'Mineral 1' and 'Mineral 2'. That would actually simplify mining immensely, cause we could just have '1-2 Asteroid', or '1-2-4 Asteroid' telling you exactly what minerals every asteroid contains without the needless complexity and suffering of clicking 'show information'. Why does it matter to you what she thinks? Why do you need a clarification from her? Does she work for CCP? Does it matter what she thinks? Do you care about the matter, or about being right? Are you seriously assuming you can explain a blind person how it is like to see? shakes head Hiply, I'll unblock you when I am at home again. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion today! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1557	Posted - 2014.09.29 21:00:00 - [180] - Quote Nerva Auris wrote: You still haven't clarified the reasons behind "Creative/interesting names for x and y things are good, creative/interesting names for z things are stupid and bad wrong!" Probably because that's not what they are saying, or what the Devs are doing. Under the Devs proposal you still have to memorise that the scoped variant has extra range, that an autocannon is a projectile and that a 200mm artillery is a frigate sized weapon (I think). And people are not saying that we shouldn't have creative names. They are saying that we should have clear names first. If a name can be clear & creative that's a good thing. But with the number of modules in the game it's unreasonable to expect people to memorise individual names that don't follow a convention. The number of ships or asteroids in the game is vastly less, and even then they do follow a convention with ship names, Caldari use a lot of bird names for example. And because it is a much smaller number it is easier to memorise the differences.
Hiply Rustic Aliastra Gallente Federation 231	Posted - 2014.09.29 23:02:00 - [181] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Nerva Auris wrote: You still haven't clarified the reasons behind "Creative/interesting names for x and y things are good, creative/interesting names for z things are stupid and bad wrong!" Probably because that's not what they are saying, or what the Devs are doing. Under the Devs proposal you still have to memorise that the scoped variant has extra range, that an autocannon is a projectile and that a 200mm artillery is a frigate sized weapon (I think). And people are not saying that we shouldn't have creative names. They are saying that we should have clear names first. If a name can be clear & creative that's a good thing. But with the number of modules in the game it's unreasonable to expect people to memorise individual names that don't follow a convention. The number of ships or asteroids in the game is vastly less, and even then they do follow a convention with ship names, Caldari use a lot of bird names for example. And because it is a much smaller number it is easier to memorise the differences. Why do people keep using the word memorize? Do you not know how to read? Do you not know how to use the compare tool built into the game? No one has to memorize anything. Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." *EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.*
Hiply Rustic Aliastra Gallente Federation 251	Posted - 2014.09.29 23:02:41 - [182] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Nerva Auris wrote: You still haven't clarified the reasons behind "Creative/interesting names for x and y things are good, creative/interesting names for z things are stupid and bad wrong!" Probably because that's not what they are saying, or what the Devs are doing. Under the Devs proposal you still have to memorise that the scoped variant has extra range, that an autocannon is a projectile and that a 200mm artillery is a frigate sized weapon (I think). And people are not saying that we shouldn't have creative names. They are saying that we should have clear names first. If a name can be clear & creative that's a good thing. But with the number of modules in the game it's unreasonable to expect people to memorise individual names that don't follow a convention. The number of ships or asteroids in the game is vastly less, and even then they do follow a convention with ship names, Caldari use a lot of bird names for example. And because it is a much smaller number it is easier to memorise the differences. Why do people keep using the word memorize? Do you not know how to read? Do you not know how to use the compare tool built into the game? No one has to memorize anything. *Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied."* *EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.*
Drevar Odatrik Light Industries 3	Posted - 2014.09.29 23:18:00 - [183] - Quote I have no issues with cleaning up the sheer number of modules with minimal differences. The big issue for those who "care" about immersion and playing in the world of New Eden is that we've seen better from crappy Chinese free-to-play translations. Could you guys at least choose names that sound kind-of, sort-of sci-fi/science/engineering like? Try Optimized, Enhanced, Amplified, Focused, Reinforced, Polarized, Field-boosted, Phase-shifted, etc. I'm sure people could come up with hundreds of names that fit. My best guess is the adjectives used in Oceanus have some sort of nuance or implied meaning in Icelandic, but fall flat when translated literally into English...that is my hope at least...that or, well I don't want to hurl too many insults..so yeah. On another note, I find it funny that at the same time the depth and naming of various systems are being dumbed-down , we are still told to HTFU. Its akin to giving us Duplo blocks (the giant Lego blocks for toddlers) to play with and then expecting us to squat our nuts over our opponent and talk trash like an MLG'er when you knock over the little tower they built. The design concepts are very dichotomous. Another example: "See, we've made the Eve learning curve so much easier and newbie friendly....PEWPEWPEW Aw, you just lost 4 weeks of work, well HTFU and get better, n00b!"
Drevar Odatrik Light Industries 6	Posted - 2014.09.29 23:18:09 - [184] - Quote I have no issues with cleaning up the sheer number of modules with minimal differences. The big issue for those who "care" about immersion and playing in the world of New Eden is that we've seen better from crappy Chinese free-to-play translations. Could you guys at least choose names that sound kind-of, sort-of sci-fi/science/engineering like? Try Optimized, Enhanced, Amplified, Focused, Reinforced, Polarized, Field-boosted, Phase-shifted, etc. I'm sure people could come up with hundreds of names that fit. My best guess is the adjectives used in Oceanus have some sort of nuance or implied meaning in Icelandic, but fall flat when translated literally into English...that is my hope at least...that or, well I don't want to hurl too many insults..so yeah. On another note, I find it funny that at the same time the depth and naming of various systems are being dumbed-down , we are still told to HTFU. Its akin to giving us Duplo blocks (the giant Lego blocks for toddlers) to play with and then expecting us to squat our nuts over our opponent and talk trash like an MLG'er when you knock over the little tower they built. The design concepts are very dichotomous. Another example: "See, we've made the Eve learning curve so much easier and newbie friendly....PEWPEWPEW Aw, you just lost 4 weeks of work, well HTFU and get better, n00b!"
mechtech Ice Liberation Army 667	Posted - 2014.09.29 23:56:00 - [185] - Quote They better not take away the Phased Weapon Navigatiopn Array Generation Extron
mechtech Ice Liberation Army 673	Posted - 2014.09.29 23:56:03 - [186] - Quote They better not take away the Phased Weapon Navigatiopn Array Generation Extron
Krell Kroenen The Devil's Shadow 200	Posted - 2014.09.30 00:32:00 - [187] - Quote mechtech wrote: They better not take away the Phased Weapon Navigatiopn Array Generation Extron In the o7 show Fozzie said he might put something about it's former name in the description.
Krell Kroenen The Devil's Shadow 226	Posted - 2014.09.30 00:32:08 - [188] - Quote mechtech wrote: They better not take away the Phased Weapon Navigatiopn Array Generation Extron In the o7 show Fozzie said he might put something about it's former name in the description.
beakerax Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2014.09.30 01:51:00 - [189] - Quote I'm down with tiericide, but with so many adjectives in the worldGÇª why did the devs pick these ones?
beakerax Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 39	Posted - 2014.09.30 01:51:27 - [190] - Quote I'm down with tiericide, but with so many adjectives in the worldGÇª why did the devs pick these ones?
Money Makin Mitch Paid in Full 467	Posted - 2014.09.30 07:34:00 - [191] - Quote beakerax wrote: I'm down with tiericide, but with so many adjectives in the worldGÇª why did the devs pick these ones? because huffing glue
Zappity SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart. 1358	Posted - 2014.09.30 08:59:00 - [192] - Quote I don't understand why there's so much arguing about this. It is easy to have it both ways, like this: Mara Rinn wrote: Weapon Navigation I Compact Partial Weapon Navigation Enduring Peripheral Weapon Navigation Diameter Scoped Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter Restrained Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Weapon Navigation II As for the idea of putting the historical names in the description, I'm not usually overly negative but that's just stupid. Keep the flavour, add the descriptors. Why is that so difficult? You could even truncate the new descriptors, such that -C is compact, -S is scoped etc etc. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 1632	Posted - 2014.09.30 08:59:24 - [193] - Quote I don't understand why there's so much arguing about this. It is easy to have it both ways, like this: Mara Rinn wrote: Weapon Navigation I Compact Partial Weapon Navigation Enduring Peripheral Weapon Navigation Diameter Scoped Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter Restrained Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Weapon Navigation II As for the idea of putting the historical names in the description, I'm not usually overly negative but that's just stupid. Keep the flavour, add the descriptors. Why is that so difficult? You could even truncate the new descriptors, such that -C is compact, -S is scoped etc etc. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Unezka Turigahl Det Som Engang Var 301	Posted - 2014.09.30 09:30:00 - [194] - Quote I think a middle ground can be reached. Keep cool names but apply them across all modules. Limos can apply to all weapons of all types that have extended magazines for example, not just missile launchers. Limos = increased capacity Arbalest = increased range Scout = higher ROF Malkuth = lower fitting You could tack some numbers on that are relevant to the variant's characteristic. Give Limos an X designating an expanded/extended magazine, preceded by a number showing how many charges it can fit. So you end up with: Light Missile Launcher 'Limos 48X' Light AutoCannon 150mm 'Limos 180X' Medium Railgun 200mm 'Limos 90X' Heavy Artillery 1400mm 'Limos 25X' etc... So you have a brand name that is associated with bigger magazines, no matter what type of weapon you are using, and you can see right off the bat how much the weapon will hold. So for Malkuth maybe it gets an F for 'fitting', preceded by a number, and a C or a P designating the CPU or PG it requires, since that is the relevant attribute for Malkuth modules. Light Missile Launcher 'Malkuth 16C-F' Light AutoCannon 150mm 'Malkuth 4C-F' Medium Railgun 200mm 'Malkuth 26C-F' Heavy Artillery 1400mm 'Malkuth 36C-F' Can extend to non-weapons modules... Medium Energy Neutralizer 'Malkuth 170P-F' Medium Capacitor Booster 'Malkuth 150P-F' If you find a Malkuth module you know its going to be easier to fit than normal, and you can see the fitting requirement without even opening the info panel. If your ship is tight on fitting and you need easier to fit guns, shield modules, whatever... just type what you need in the market search followed by Malkuth.
Unezka Turigahl Det Som Engang Var 493	Posted - 2014.09.30 09:30:05 - [195] - Quote I think a middle ground can be reached. Keep cool names but apply them across all modules. Limos can apply to all weapons of all types that have extended magazines for example, not just missile launchers. Limos = increased capacity (think limousine, stretched car, stretched magazine) Arbalest = increased range (an arbalest is a crossbow, a RANGED weapon. RANGE) Scout = higher ROF (scouts make you think of quick movement. quick fire rate) Malkuth = lower fitting (Malkuth doesn't have a memorization gimmick, sorry) You could tack some numbers on that are relevant to the variant's characteristic. Give Limos an X designating an expanded/extended magazine, preceded by a number showing how many charges it can fit. So you end up with: Light Missile Launcher 'Limos 48X' Light AutoCannon 150mm 'Limos 180X' Medium Railgun 200mm 'Limos 90X' Heavy Artillery 1400mm 'Limos 25X' etc... So you have a brand name that is associated with bigger magazines, no matter what type of weapon you are using, and you can see right off the bat how much the weapon will hold. So for Malkuth maybe it gets an F for 'fitting', preceded by a number, and a C or a P designating the CPU or PG it requires, since that is the relevant attribute for Malkuth modules. Light Missile Launcher 'Malkuth 16C-F' Light AutoCannon 150mm 'Malkuth 4C-F' Medium Railgun 200mm 'Malkuth 26C-F' Heavy Artillery 1400mm 'Malkuth 36C-F' Can extend to non-weapons modules... Medium Energy Neutralizer 'Malkuth 170P-F' Medium Capacitor Booster 'Malkuth 150P-F' If you find a Malkuth module you know its going to be easier to fit than normal, and you can see the fitting requirement without even opening the info panel. If your ship is tight on fitting and you need easier to fit guns, shield modules, whatever... just type what you need in the market search followed by Malkuth.
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10202	Posted - 2014.09.30 09:38:00 - [196] - Quote Unezka Turigahl wrote: Good post, wrong forum I felt free to quote your post in the actually relevant thread, because here it will only go to waste. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion today! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 11198	Posted - 2014.09.30 09:38:56 - [197] - Quote Unezka Turigahl wrote: Good post, wrong forum I felt free to quote your post in the actually relevant thread, because here it will only go to waste. Sparkles of cinnamon ... ... surrounded by hot chocolate ............ ;) I can see you reading this ... and you like it! I saw a man upon the stair, a little man who wasn't there I saw the man again today ... Geee, I wished he'd go away.
Nick Starkey Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 82	Posted - 2014.09.30 09:50:00 - [198] - Quote It's no wonder this game can never evolve, when people complain about the most pettiest things such as module names. ..
Nick Starkey Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 132	Posted - 2014.09.30 09:50:38 - [199] - Quote It's no wonder this game can never evolve, when people complain about the most pettiest things such as module names. ..
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10202	Posted - 2014.09.30 09:59:00 - [200] - Quote Nick Starkey wrote: It's no wonder this game can never evolve, when people complain about the most pettiest things such as module names. Another person who does not understand how important "emotional connection" is. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion today! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 11198	Posted - 2014.09.30 09:59:11 - [201] - Quote Nick Starkey wrote: It's no wonder this game can never evolve, when people complain about the most pettiest things such as module names. Another person who does not understand how important "emotional connection" is. Sparkles of cinnamon ... ... surrounded by hot chocolate ............ ;) I can see you reading this ... and you like it! I saw a man upon the stair, a little man who wasn't there I saw the man again today ... Geee, I wished he'd go away.
Nick Starkey Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 82	Posted - 2014.09.30 10:12:00 - [202] - Quote Yes, I too have a strong emotional connection with some random low-grade module names. It's okay that the most widely used modules were just called 'Module name' II before, or that ships are generally seen as squares in space with numbers attached into them, or that planets and moons names just follow a numeric scale. These things don't break immersion at all, but the sheer thought of renaming my 'Internal force field array' into a Compact damage control brings tears to my eyes. ..
Nick Starkey Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 132	Posted - 2014.09.30 10:12:05 - [203] - Quote Yes, I too have a strong emotional connection with some random low-grade module names. It's okay that the most widely used modules were just called 'Module name' II before, or that ships are generally seen as squares in space with numbers attached into them, or that planets, moons and belts, faction and deadspace names just follow a generic scale. These things don't break immersion at all, but the sheer thought of renaming my 'Internal force field array' into a Compact damage control brings tears to my eyes. ..
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10202	Posted - 2014.09.30 10:18:00 - [204] - Quote Nick Starkey wrote: Yes, I too have a strong emotional connection with some random low-grade module names. It's okay that the most widely used modules were just called 'Module name' II before, or that ships are generally seen as squares in space with numbers attached into them, or that planets, moons and belts, faction and deadspace names just follow a generic scale. These things don't break immersion at all, but the sheer thought of renaming my 'Internal force field array' into a Compact damage control brings tears to my eyes. Even TRYING to explain someone who needs an npc alt "emotional depth and connection", is completely pointless. As there's no use in trying to explain how "salt tastes like", I will just let you live in your tiny little bubble and rather talk with people who are not only half of what a human being can actually be. kinks (: I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion today! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 11198	Posted - 2014.09.30 10:18:36 - [205] - Quote Nick Starkey wrote: Yes, I too have a strong emotional connection with some random low-grade module names. It's okay that the most widely used modules were just called 'Module name' II before, or that ships are generally seen as squares in space with numbers attached into them, or that planets, moons and belts, faction and deadspace names just follow a generic scale. These things don't break immersion at all, but the sheer thought of renaming my 'Internal force field array' into a Compact damage control brings tears to my eyes. Even TRYING to explain someone who needs an npc alt "emotional depth and connection", is completely pointless. As there's no use in trying to explain how "salt tastes like", I will just let you live in your tiny little bubble and rather talk with people who are not only half of what a human being can actually be. kinks (: Sparkles of cinnamon ... ... surrounded by hot chocolate ............ ;) I can see you reading this ... and you like it! I saw a man upon the stair, a little man who wasn't there I saw the man again today ... Geee, I wished he'd go away.
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 5535	Posted - 2014.09.30 10:32:00 - [206] - Quote Yeah, I slept with a teacher in high school too once. People keep telling me it doesn't count if you're homeschooled though.... Oh, wrong thread. nvm GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 6150	Posted - 2014.09.30 10:32:27 - [207] - Quote Yeah, I slept with a teacher in high school too once. People keep telling me it doesn't count if you're homeschooled though.... Oh, wrong thread. nvm GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Marsha Mallow 1576	Posted - 2014.09.30 11:08:00 - [208] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: People who lack understanding of emotional depth can in no way or form be explained what they are missing. You are, literally, trying to explain a blind person how it's like to see. Some people only exist as half a person, without them ever being able to live as full. Argueing with these people is nonsense, really. What they think is irrelevant. What matters is that we bring the point accross to CCP. You people are wasting your time talking here with someone who in no way or form has any relevance to the matter, instead of posting where it actually matters, or finding another smart way to get the point across. How about you not-emotionally-shallow people stop this and rather talk with me about how we can try to change this stupidity? We already lost the fight anyway, as Oceanus hits tomorrow ...... and barely anyone posted in the relevant thread. But as this is only the first wave of stupid changes, there's still time for us to do something actually relevant. Instead we all got sucked in into this irrelevant bullshit, with you people wasting time with irrelevant nonsense talking to people who do not matter in regards to a solution! Contact me if you actually care ...... or get lost if all you wanna do is argue about irrelevant opinions anyway. If it's pointless stop doing it. Calling people subhumans who 'lack emotional depth' because they don't attach any significance to module naming conventions is abusive and nonconstructive. We don't need to contact you over anything, you're an irrelevant forum rambler. Most people have expressed cautious approval for tiericide as a concept to improve mod stats and make them useful. Renaming to improve search functionality and grouping gets a thumbs up. Stripping out the older names and replacing them with a new set is sound in theory. Until we see the list of names look like something you might see in an FPS (Scoped? lol) or any other game out there. It's not pointless to have these discussions - even if they overlap patches where changes are being made. We're on a faster development cycle, but that doesn't mean adjustments like this won't stretch over multiple patches. As long as the concerns presented are reasonable they'll probably get eyeballed by Devs wherever the discussion takes place. Although since this topic is in full derail mode now by forum queens attempting to 'protect' the discussion by screeching incoherently at anyone who disagrees with their view, this thread is probably now redundant. The dev feedback thread is here for those who haven't seen it, and Fozzie's comment is here. DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
Marsha Mallow 1730	Posted - 2014.09.30 11:08:26 - [209] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: People who lack understanding of emotional depth can in no way or form be explained what they are missing. You are, literally, trying to explain a blind person how it's like to see. Some people only exist as half a person, without them ever being able to live as full. Argueing with these people is nonsense, really. What they think is irrelevant. What matters is that we bring the point accross to CCP. You people are wasting your time talking here with someone who in no way or form has any relevance to the matter, instead of posting where it actually matters, or finding another smart way to get the point across. How about you not-emotionally-shallow people stop this and rather talk with me about how we can try to change this stupidity? We already lost the fight anyway, as Oceanus hits tomorrow ...... and barely anyone posted in the relevant thread. But as this is only the first wave of stupid changes, there's still time for us to do something actually relevant. Instead we all got sucked in into this irrelevant bullshit, with you people wasting time with irrelevant nonsense talking to people who do not matter in regards to a solution! Contact me if you actually care ...... or get lost if all you wanna do is argue about irrelevant opinions anyway. If it's pointless stop doing it. Calling people subhumans who 'lack emotional depth' because they don't attach any significance to module naming conventions is abusive and nonconstructive. We don't need to contact you over anything, you're an irrelevant forum rambler. Most people have expressed cautious approval for tiericide as a concept to improve mod stats and make them useful. Renaming to improve search functionality and grouping gets a thumbs up. Stripping out the older names and replacing them with a new set is sound in theory. Until we see the list of names look like something you might see in an FPS (Scoped? lol) or any other game out there. It's not pointless to have these discussions - even if they overlap patches where changes are being made. We're on a faster development cycle, but that doesn't mean adjustments like this won't stretch over multiple patches. As long as the concerns presented are reasonable they'll probably get eyeballed by Devs wherever the discussion takes place. Although since this topic is in full derail mode now by forum queens attempting to 'protect' the discussion by screeching incoherently at anyone who disagrees with their view, this thread is probably now redundant. The dev feedback thread is here for those who haven't seen it, and Fozzie's comment is here. DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10203	Posted - 2014.09.30 11:12:00 - [210] - Quote lol says the irrelevant, forum rambling marshmellow. ^_^ I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion today! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 11198	Posted - 2014.09.30 11:12:01 - [211] - Quote lol marshmellow. ^_^ Your whole post is as redundant as this thread. The thread was redundant from the start. The actually relevant thread was pointed out a while ago, as well as the latest dev comment. Yet people post here, for no actual reason, except because they do not care about the matter and only about making the other admit that he's wrong. Pointless, as your post is ... and as this post is. You just prove and underline once more that there's no point, you cute little hater. ^_^ Thanks. :) kinks (: Sparkles of cinnamon ... ... surrounded by hot chocolate ............ ;) I can see you reading this ... and you like it! I saw a man upon the stair, a little man who wasn't there I saw the man again today ... Geee, I wished he'd go away.
Aurora Tali Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 7	Posted - 2014.09.30 12:19:00 - [212] - Quote what is the Matter ? everytime you hover your curser over your launchers to activate the you take a minute to Enjoy that the Launcher name is Experimental T- whatever missle launcher ? or do you sit in station all day BitterVetting shipspin Action and reading the names from the stuff in your Hangar ? yeah they change some stats but use another Launcher if the one with your favorite name gets nerfed
Misunderstood Genius Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 89	Posted - 2014.09.30 12:22:00 - [213] - Quote I have a problem because trouble was renamed to issue.
Misunderstood Genius Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 93	Posted - 2014.09.30 12:22:55 - [214] - Quote I have a problem because trouble was renamed to issue.
Bagatur I School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 10	Posted - 2014.09.30 12:58:00 - [215] - Quote The tiercide makes a lot of sense. There is too much crap that is rarely used. However I wish they kept the unique names for different modules. scoped? ample? scope my ample ass and use some imagination
Bagatur I School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 27	Posted - 2014.09.30 12:58:24 - [216] - Quote The tiercide makes a lot of sense. There is too much crap that is rarely used. However I wish they kept the unique names for different modules. scoped? ample? scope my ample ass and use some imagination
OldWolf69 Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 147	Posted - 2014.09.30 13:18:00 - [217] - Quote Cartheron Crust wrote: I await the day when I can pilot a spaceship called:- Gallente Blaster Cruiser I Gallente Drone Cruiser I Gallente Damping Cruiser I Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser I Or the T2 variants. Gallente Blaster Cruiser II Gallente Drone Cruiser II Gallente Damping Cruiser II Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser II Spaceship tiericide coming soon(tm). ...erry time there's a ****** giving Fozzie more genial ideeas lol.
OldWolf69 Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 169	Posted - 2014.09.30 13:18:04 - [218] - Quote Cartheron Crust wrote: I await the day when I can pilot a spaceship called:- Gallente Blaster Cruiser I Gallente Drone Cruiser I Gallente Damping Cruiser I Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser I Or the T2 variants. Gallente Blaster Cruiser II Gallente Drone Cruiser II Gallente Damping Cruiser II Gallente Remote Repair Cruiser II Spaceship tiericide coming soon(tm). ...erry time there's a ****** giving Fozzie more genial ideeas lol.
OldWolf69 Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 169	Posted - 2014.09.30 13:19:21 - [219] - Quote Bagatur I wrote: The tiercide makes a lot of sense. There is too much crap that is rarely used. However I wish they kept the unique names for different modules. scoped? ample? scope my ample ass and use some imagination ...simply remove inutile or unused ****? ....replace with new interesting things? ... NOFUNALLOWED
Sabriz Adoudel Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 3977	Posted - 2014.12.07 03:02:26 - [220] - Quote ISD Ezwal wrote: I can earnestly say it would be a sad day if they where to change these names: PWN PWND PWNT PWNAGE oh my god, I never noticed those names like ever my life is now complete Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10

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