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Missions = total waste of time

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Moghydin Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2006.08.07 21:47:00 - [1] It happened, that I had to return to missions (I hope not for long). I didn't do them for quite a long time, and my 1-st reaction was - wtf??? I'm talking about lvl 3's here. I took a Brutix, thinking that a bc should be ok. I have quite nice gunnery skills (around 7mill), and although they are mostly allocated in lasers, many supplementary skills are maxed out. What I saw: Guristas extravaganza mission was average, Spy stash was quite hard and Pirate Invasion is simply insane. I got 3 feroxes and 7-8 cruisers on me, and I got also jammed from time to time. Well, ok. They are hard, so, the reward should be ok. And here's the surprize - the reward is 1.4 mill, including bonus, may be 1-2 more mill on bounty. That's for several hours, grinding the endless stream of NPC's. ISKwise that means 2 average bs spawns in 0.0. Taking into account the time, dedicated to killing all this, the reward is just pathetic. So, do you think that nerfing missions got too far? Of course they are doable more easily with fully T2 or faction equipped ship, but think about the reward. It's completely disproportionsl comapring the time and the ISK, invested in the equipment (if we're talking about T2 or faction).
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.07 21:48:00 - [2] You don't get loyalty points, then? ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Moghydin Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2006.08.07 21:58:00 - [3] Edited by: Moghydin on 07/08/2006 22:03:15 Even considering LP's, it's not THAT better. It took me 2.5 hours to complete Pirate Invasion for example. It takes me 30 min to kill 3-5 average bs spawns, depending on the spawn. I know, 0.0 should be more profitable, but at least some common sense plz. P.S. Btw, the loot is a nightmare too. You are happy to get ANY named item, even if it sells at 20k at the nearest stn.
Stamm Amarr GALAXIAN	Posted - 2006.08.07 22:00:00 - [4] Run missions in low sec or 0.0. Much more rewarding. You get higher LP, higher payment, and you go up against Empire faction ships, which drop better loot.
Deja Thoris Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.07 22:20:00 - [5] Originally by: Moghydin P.S. Btw, the loot is a nightmare too. You are happy to get ANY named item, even if it sells at 20k at the nearest stn. It refines for 10's of millions of mins per day if you scoop it quickly. Bounties + LP + Mission reward + Mission Bonus + Loot / refine = Good reward. Yes, 0.0 is more rewarding. It's not poor reward, theres lotsa rich carebears about and missions is how they do it. You said yourself you ran through a few and they were fine. Pirate invasion took you a long time and thats the one you decide to extrapolate into a risk vs reward post
Brutor Shaun Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.07 22:24:00 - [6] Originally by: Moghydin . It took me 2.5 hours to complete Pirate Invasion for example. I think it's all relative. I can solo Pirate Invasion in under an hour, so the reward and bounty are justifiable.
Gaius Antony	Posted - 2006.08.07 22:37:00 - [7] Odd, Im in a brutix and that missions takes about 2 hours (I have about 2 mill skill points). If you have a mission where you warp into all this crap (enemies not spread to groups), I take a shuttle, warp in, blow up, fly pod 30km's away , bookmark, take brutix and warp to bookmark. And you should get around 4 mil in bounty
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.08.07 22:39:00 - [8] I must say, its nice to see someone commenting on the relative value of Empire mission running and 0.0 ratting, who has ACTUALLY experienced them both, heh All you normally see is NERF EMPIRE MISSIONS - make them come to low sec so we can gank em posts
Scarlett Yo'Mason	Posted - 2006.08.07 22:41:00 - [9] What setup are you using? Seriously: i take more time gettin all the cans with a nanofiber cruiser then running all the spawns with a drone Brutix (waiting for the Myrmidon). I solo that mission with infinite cap/tank in less then 30 minutes. Your problem should be with the permanent jamming, i'm guessing you're only using turrets and you don't shoot the Anhiliators first (i think that those are the jammers). Don't start threads asking for mission nerfing please... This is gettin ridiculous.
Kitty O'Shay Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.08.07 23:03:00 - [10] I've been out in Syndicate ratting, and decided to try a lv 2 Intaki Syndicate mission, since that what I had standing for. It was a test to see how 0.0 mission compare to empire mission and if it was worth grinding standing to get a lv 3 agent there. I was completely unimpressed with the rewards, decided to just keep shooting belt rats. Are 0.0 pirate lv 3s worth it vs. belt ratting? I'm not sure, but when I factor in my stacks of Local Hulls and 1600mm RT plats, I think belt ratting has the edge. -- [THARS] is recruiting 1 ebil pirate. Be the one!
Sean Dillon Caldari Shadows of the Dead Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.08.07 23:06:00 - [11] I belt rat for money, its easy money good loot etc. For me mission running is a way to gain faction standing, as in any other space sim I have played. Nothing more.
Adoro Caldari Reunited	Posted - 2006.08.07 23:16:00 - [12] Dont do missions for money, do it for standing Hi moghydin btw.. :)
Takaharu Tsuyoshi	Posted - 2006.08.08 01:13:00 - [13] Get a better quality agent and train up the connection skill books.
Malleer	Posted - 2006.08.08 04:08:00 - [14] Originally by: Moghydin It happened, that I had to return to missions (I hope not for long). I didn't do them for quite a long time, and my 1-st reaction was - wtf??? I'm talking about lvl 3's here. /quote]null You can not compare lvl 3's and 0.0. My main do lvl 4's and 0.0 ratting, and they are comparable, taking into account risk vs reward.
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt	Posted - 2006.08.08 04:15:00 - [15] High sec level 3 missions are approx 5 times less profitable than good 0.0 belt good spawn chaining (approx 3 mil / h or roughly, depending on skills and agent quality). For high sec level 4's relation is something like 1/3 to 1/2 of profits compared to 0.0 belthunting in good system (8 mil / h on better missions + LP and loot against around 20 to 30 where 30 mil / h needs very very good shooting skills on very good spawns and no LP + good loot.) You would however need to consider, that being in 0.0 requires some other activities from you too, unless you live in NPC space. Like you would need will to defend that space or your trip to 0.0 would be short lived - unless you ofc have others who do the fighting for you. In any case, after factoring in other aspects of 0.0 life I would speculate it's only approx 30 or % more profitable than level 4 missions in high sec space.
Willis Drummond Lordless Unbrella Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.08 04:15:00 - [16] Edited by: Willis Drummond on 08/08/2006 04:15:57 When you factor everything in level 3 missions are better than you're making them sound but not as lucrative as ratting. But that's like saying that all ratting is pointless because you make more money running level 4 missions than killing cruiser rats in empire. The point being you shouldn't disregard missions altogether when you haven't done the full gambit. You'll make money faster in the short-term ratting but over the longterm missions are much more lucrative. You get drops that aren't normal for the region, you're not as easily ganked, the bounties and loot do add up and after enough LPs you're really getting some crazy rewards. Plus missions tend to be more challenging, ratting can get boring once you can take on every spawn in your region with ease. Awesome Post# 397572
Moghydin Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2006.08.08 04:17:00 - [17] Agent has 15 quality btw, so it's not that bad. The missions are doable, but it looks there's no logic in that. CCP virtually went from one extreme position, where Raven pilots earned 100's of millions in missions without effort, to the other, when you have to battle your way throgh the missions (and I undertsand how hard those missions are for newer pilots) just to get a less than fancy reward. I think that if mission running is not your profession in Eve, and you do those missions to earn some ISK, then you're out of luck. Several hours of grind will hardly earn you enough ISK to replace a cruiser with T2 fittings for example. The idea of scooping all loot cans is nice, but it takes loads of time to scoop all the cans tha are lying at 5km to 60km distance, even with a tractor beam. And Brutix cargohold of 400, with ammo inside can't take too much of the loot too.
Takaharu Tsuyoshi	Posted - 2006.08.08 04:19:00 - [18] Pop into a passive tanked ferox and you can sleep through all lvl 3 missions. While eventually lvl4's get easy for raven/cnr pilots at first they do take a lot of research and isk to get into. To get to the point where you can run them easily does take quite an investment.
Willis Drummond Lordless Unbrella Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.08 04:20:00 - [19] Originally by: Moghydin The idea of scooping all loot cans is nice, but it takes loads of time to scoop all the cans tha are lying at 5km to 60km distance, even with a tractor beam. And Brutix cargohold of 400, with ammo inside can't take too much of the loot too. Exequoror's with tractors, cargo expanders and mwd/ab make excellent loot vaccuums. The first time you get a local hull or whatever it's paid for itself. Awesome Post# 815151
faxtarious Xandak	Posted - 2006.08.08 04:20:00 - [20] I do lvl3 in a rifter...if you have all that SP and all these fancy toys, take on a lvl4 mission and stop whining
Moghydin Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2006.08.08 04:25:00 - [21] Originally by: Carniflex High sec level 3 missions are approx 5 times less profitable than good 0.0 belt good spawn chaining (approx 3 mil / h or roughly, depending on skills and agent quality). For high sec level 4's relation is something like 1/3 to 1/2 of profits compared to 0.0 belthunting in good system (8 mil / h on better missions + LP and loot against around 20 to 30 where 30 mil / h needs very very good shooting skills on very good spawns and no LP + good loot.) You would however need to consider, that being in 0.0 requires some other activities from you too, unless you live in NPC space. Like you would need will to defend that space or your trip to 0.0 would be short lived - unless you ofc have others who do the fighting for you. In any case, after factoring in other aspects of 0.0 life I would speculate it's only approx 30 or % more profitable than level 4 missions in high sec space. The main reason of the thread is that I found out how hard is actually to make ISK with missions in empire. I was in 0.0 and I had no problem replacing any ship (and not that I was ratting 23/7, mostly I was doing other things). I don't have any ISK problems now too, what strikes me is that it's very hard to get a positive flow of ISK in your wallet if you're actually losing ships and doing missions to earn ISK.
Powder Monkey	Posted - 2006.08.08 04:31:00 - [22] YES INDEED MISSIONS ARE A WASTE OF TIME WHEN YOU DO THEM AND THE SERVE TENDS TO CRASH WHILE YOUR BS IS SCRAMBLED AND TAKING HUGE AMOUNTS OF DPS down with the bloody server !!
Elizium Gallente Phoenix Propulsion Labs	Posted - 2006.08.08 04:36:00 - [23] Edited by: Elizium on 08/08/2006 04:36:20 Hrm, my experiences have been slightly different. I run a lot of L3's (Empire Space) and haven't really found them THAT difficult to complete. When they have been (there's a few real tough ones that can take a couple hours to finish), there's usually been reward that I considered worth the effort. Oftentimes, that's not the financial reward but rather the standings reward. I guess some perspective on what each individual deems a worthy reward is important in this conversation. My goal isn't the money (although I don't find it that bad), but rather if it's gaining me what I need. If my goal was the money, well... I hesistate to speculate because it's not a situation I've been in. Commodore Elizium - HRO Phoenix Propulsion Labs
Aelita Minmatar CHON	Posted - 2006.08.08 04:39:00 - [24] I were mission runner before dead space mission were introduced into game. That change completely eliminated sniper tactics from missions. At these times missions are comparable to NPC hunt in 0.0. I'd give it up and I'm dedicated to NPC hunt when I want to make my ISK. I'm very patient so I pick up any loot with my loot account and doing complete refine of all loot. I'm able with my limited playtime (two hours per day) and two accounts (one kill second loot, haul and recycle) in decent 0.0 space (-0.2 security) make around 1bil ISK per month. Last time I'd decide give missions another try, because I got tip where to do missions to get for LP offers snake implants. OK I'd build up my standing from -2.0 to 5.0 to be able to do agent L4 missions. These agents are stationed in 0.0 near by my hunting spots. Guess what I found after two weeks of grinding L4 agent? I found that I'm fooled by CCP twice. I must dedicate to game more than 6 hours per day, because average L4 mission take around hour to complete and certain L4 missions like Extravaganza take me up to 8 hours to finish especially because I wasn't able dedicate more than four hours at once so I must do same mission in two steps and if DT occurs whole mission is respawned :( Result: Missions push me to play more than NPC hunting I went from 2 hours daily up to 8 hours daily (my wife starts killing me). I did make 1/10 cash as before including agent rewards and again I did loot all and refine it same way as from NPC hunt. What more I found that my LP builds so slowly because I was able to do no more than three missions daily and average LP reward is around 8 000 LP and I need for these implants (each) around 100k LP. I found taht for me is better keep doing only two hours NPC hunting and I can buy every week one snake implants from mission runners? LOL I found that for me is better just go and buy implant rather than working for it on my own on agents! I really think CCP went ot of mind when nerfed agents. Trust me there is no such big diference running agents in empire and deep in 0.0. Just simple NPC rats grind will brings ten times more cash for less time to spend. Hurray! CCP kill all missions *****, but wait! If all people will give it up where I will buy my implants? So please CCP give mission runners a try and undo Nerf Bat Swing at least for 0.0 agents if nothing, because agents in 0.0 are now just pure joke.
Fuujin Hadean Drive Yards	Posted - 2006.08.08 04:39:00 - [25] Like someone said above, move onto level 4's if it's such a problem. _______________ The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
faxtarious Xandak	Posted - 2006.08.08 04:40:00 - [26] Originally by: Moghydin Originally by: Carniflex High sec level 3 missions are approx 5 times less profitable than good 0.0 belt good spawn chaining (approx 3 mil / h or roughly, depending on skills and agent quality). For high sec level 4's relation is something like 1/3 to 1/2 of profits compared to 0.0 belthunting in good system (8 mil / h on better missions + LP and loot against around 20 to 30 where 30 mil / h needs very very good shooting skills on very good spawns and no LP + good loot.) You would however need to consider, that being in 0.0 requires some other activities from you too, unless you live in NPC space. Like you would need will to defend that space or your trip to 0.0 would be short lived - unless you ofc have others who do the fighting for you. In any case, after factoring in other aspects of 0.0 life I would speculate it's only approx 30 or % more profitable than level 4 missions in high sec space. The main reason of the thread is that I found out how hard is actually to make ISK with missions in empire. I was in 0.0 and I had no problem replacing any ship (and not that I was ratting 23/7, mostly I was doing other things). I don't have any ISK problems now too, what strikes me is that it's very hard to get a positive flow of ISK in your wallet if you're actually losing ships and doing missions to earn ISK. simple...just think out of he box here for a sec... mission running is not PVP the only EW you'll need is a webber... and second..get that GOD DAM tractor beam of that high slot and put a GUN 3th... shiel or armor hardners...and sheild boost or armor rep...what the hell is that ECM doing here...mission running is about durability vs how fast you can pop a rat (big or smal) 4th...analise the mission ahead...and also the "EVE info wil not help ya cauz CCP ain't dumb...these damage types are not precise...they've been changed...so when you are putting hardners...boost the ships weakest resists and leave the ones that's at 60% or 70% (I'm talking T1 ships here) 5th...fit your ship with the guns it was supposed to have (Med and heavies for BC etc..)...do not put a missile or rocet launcher cauz (you think) you can outsmart a frig rat...(use you drones) 6th when you warp in...ZOOM out and look around you...agro them "pack by pack" don't agro the whole dam room warp in at range and start picking of thesmaller ships first with you guns...(insta pop them frigs from a far!!!) 8thIf you are scrambled...the scrmbler must be your priority... 9th ALWAYS align with an exit point when you are over run (EVEN if you can tank them for a while) and stay till your tank is completely down or till you pop the ship you where about to pop... I'm not asking you to solo a lvl3 ina frig...(yeah..I know I'm crazy) but just use common sence when rnning mission and use you ship to the fullest...it's NOT PVP..rats have no brains...and you look stupid with that tractor beam on your BC...(don't yuou fill that cargo with ammo ???)
Uuve Savisaalo Umbra Congregatio	Posted - 2006.08.08 04:46:00 - [27] I am going to say this once at the risk of mortally-offending the content creation people, may they find it in their steely hearts to forgive me, but missions in general are a waste of time - it would be fair to say that missions and complexes in their current form are a needless afterthought.
faxtarious Xandak	Posted - 2006.08.08 04:48:00 - [28] run a lvl4 "silent the informent"...
Sarmea Moon Gallente Eve University The Big Blue	Posted - 2006.08.08 05:16:00 - [29] After I started lvl 3 missions, and got my brutix popped in my first Mordus ( insane), I bought a Domi. Even with relatively few skillpoints ( I have 6 mill on my alt), she can sleep through most lvl 3's. She doesn't have to warp out for Mordus at all, either, even with full room agro. You need either a better setup, or bigger ship. You need to check eve-info for each mission, so you know what hardeners and drones to fit/release. Some missions haven't been updated, but it's a pretty good guideline. Join channel: "Eve University" or read here
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.08.08 05:39:00 - [30] Edited by: spurious signal on 08/08/2006 05:39:45 You don't do level 3's for the rewards. You grind level 3's so that you can get to do level 4's where you can start grinding proper isk. Your thread topic is spot on though. Missions are a grind, which is, by definition, a waste of time. That's their purpose.

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