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Moghydin
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2006.08.07 21:47:00 -
[1]
It happened, that I had to return to missions (I hope not for long). I didn't do them for quite a long time, and my 1-st reaction was - wtf??? I'm talking about lvl 3's here. I took a Brutix, thinking that a bc should be ok. I have quite nice gunnery skills (around 7mill ), and although they are mostly allocated in lasers, many supplementary skills are maxed out.
What I saw: Guristas extravaganza mission was average, Spy stash was quite hard and Pirate Invasion is simply insane. I got 3 feroxes and 7-8 cruisers on me, and I got also jammed from time to time. Well, ok. They are hard, so, the reward should be ok. And here's the surprize - the reward is 1.4 mill, including bonus, may be 1-2 more mill on bounty. That's for several hours, grinding the endless stream of NPC's. ISKwise that means 2 average bs spawns in 0.0 . Taking into account the time, dedicated to killing all this, the reward is just pathetic.
So, do you think that nerfing missions got too far? Of course they are doable more easily with fully T2 or faction equipped ship, but think about the reward. It's completely disproportionsl comapring the time and the ISK, invested in the equipment (if we're talking about T2 or faction).
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.07 21:48:00 -
[2]
You don't get loyalty points, then?
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Moghydin
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2006.08.07 21:58:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Moghydin on 07/08/2006 22:03:15
Even considering LP's, it's not THAT better. It took me 2.5 hours to complete Pirate Invasion for example. It takes me 30 min to kill 3-5 average bs spawns, depending on the spawn. I know, 0.0 should be more profitable, but at least some common sense plz.
P.S. Btw, the loot is a nightmare too. You are happy to get ANY named item, even if it sells at 20k at the nearest stn.
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Stamm
Amarr
GALAXIAN
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Posted - 2006.08.07 22:00:00 -
[4]
Run missions in low sec or 0.0. Much more rewarding. You get higher LP, higher payment, and you go up against Empire faction ships, which drop better loot.
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Deja Thoris
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.07 22:20:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Moghydin
P.S. Btw, the loot is a nightmare too. You are happy to get ANY named item, even if it sells at 20k at the nearest stn.
It refines for 10's of millions of mins per day if you scoop it quickly.
Bounties + LP + Mission reward + Mission Bonus + Loot / refine = Good reward.
Yes, 0.0 is more rewarding.
It's not poor reward, theres lotsa rich carebears about and missions is how they do it. You said yourself you ran through a few and they were fine. Pirate invasion took you a long time and thats the one you decide to extrapolate into a risk vs reward post
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Brutor Shaun
Minmatar
Freelancers UK Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.07 22:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Moghydin
. It took me 2.5 hours to complete Pirate Invasion for example.
I think it's all relative. I can solo Pirate Invasion in under an hour, so the reward and bounty are justifiable.
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Gaius Antony
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Posted - 2006.08.07 22:37:00 -
[7]
Odd, Im in a brutix and that missions takes about 2 hours (I have about 2 mill skill points). If you have a mission where you warp into all this crap (enemies not spread to groups), I take a shuttle, warp in, blow up, fly pod 30km's away , bookmark, take brutix and warp to bookmark. And you should get around 4 mil in bounty
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Matori Kar
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Posted - 2006.08.07 22:39:00 -
[8]
I must say, its nice to see someone commenting on the relative value of Empire mission running and 0.0 ratting, who has ACTUALLY experienced them both, heh
All you normally see is NERF EMPIRE MISSIONS - make them come to low sec so we can gank em posts
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Scarlett Yo'Mason
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Posted - 2006.08.07 22:41:00 -
[9]
What setup are you using? Seriously: i take more time gettin all the cans with a nanofiber cruiser then running all the spawns with a drone Brutix (waiting for the Myrmidon). I solo that mission with infinite cap/tank in less then 30 minutes. Your problem should be with the permanent jamming, i'm guessing you're only using turrets and you don't shoot the Anhiliators first (i think that those are the jammers). Don't start threads asking for mission nerfing please... This is gettin ridiculous.
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Kitty O'Shay
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.08.07 23:03:00 -
[10]
I've been out in Syndicate ratting, and decided to try a lv 2 Intaki Syndicate mission, since that what I had standing for. It was a test to see how 0.0 mission compare to empire mission and if it was worth grinding standing to get a lv 3 agent there.
I was completely unimpressed with the rewards, decided to just keep shooting belt rats.
Are 0.0 pirate lv 3s worth it vs. belt ratting?
I'm not sure, but when I factor in my stacks of Local Hulls and 1600mm RT plats, I think belt ratting has the edge.
--
[THARS] is recruiting 1 ebil pirate. Be the one! |
Sean Dillon
Caldari
Shadows of the Dead
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.08.07 23:06:00 -
[11]
I belt rat for money, its easy money good loot etc.
For me mission running is a way to gain faction standing, as in any other space sim I have played. Nothing more.
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Adoro
Caldari
Reunited
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Posted - 2006.08.07 23:16:00 -
[12]
Dont do missions for money, do it for standing
Hi moghydin btw.. :)
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Takaharu Tsuyoshi
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Posted - 2006.08.08 01:13:00 -
[13]
Get a better quality agent and train up the connection skill books.
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Malleer
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:08:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Moghydin
It happened, that I had to return to missions (I hope not for long). I didn't do them for quite a long time, and my 1-st reaction was - wtf??? I'm talking about lvl 3's here. /quote]null
You can not compare lvl 3's and 0.0. My main do lvl 4's and 0.0 ratting, and they are comparable, taking into account risk vs reward.
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Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:15:00 -
[15]
High sec level 3 missions are approx 5 times less profitable than good 0.0 belt good spawn chaining (approx 3 mil / h or roughly, depending on skills and agent quality). For high sec level 4's relation is something like 1/3 to 1/2 of profits compared to 0.0 belthunting in good system (8 mil / h on better missions + LP and loot against around 20 to 30 where 30 mil / h needs very very good shooting skills on very good spawns and no LP + good loot.)
You would however need to consider, that being in 0.0 requires some other activities from you too, unless you live in NPC space. Like you would need will to defend that space or your trip to 0.0 would be short lived - unless you ofc have others who do the fighting for you. In any case, after factoring in other aspects of 0.0 life I would speculate it's only approx 30 or % more profitable than level 4 missions in high sec space.
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Willis Drummond
Lordless
Unbrella Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:15:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Willis Drummond on 08/08/2006 04:15:57
When you factor everything in level 3 missions are better than you're making them sound but not as lucrative as ratting. But that's like saying that all ratting is pointless because you make more money running level 4 missions than killing cruiser rats in empire. The point being you shouldn't disregard missions altogether when you haven't done the full gambit.
You'll make money faster in the short-term ratting but over the longterm missions are much more lucrative. You get drops that aren't normal for the region, you're not as easily ganked, the bounties and loot do add up and after enough LPs you're really getting some crazy rewards.
Plus missions tend to be more challenging, ratting can get boring once you can take on every spawn in your region with ease.
Awesome Post# 397572 |
Moghydin
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:17:00 -
[17]
Agent has 15 quality btw, so it's not that bad. The missions are doable, but it looks there's no logic in that. CCP virtually went from one extreme position, where Raven pilots earned 100's of millions in missions without effort, to the other, when you have to battle your way throgh the missions (and I undertsand how hard those missions are for newer pilots) just to get a less than fancy reward. I think that if mission running is not your profession in Eve, and you do those missions to earn some ISK, then you're out of luck. Several hours of grind will hardly earn you enough ISK to replace a cruiser with T2 fittings for example.
The idea of scooping all loot cans is nice, but it takes loads of time to scoop all the cans tha are lying at 5km to 60km distance, even with a tractor beam. And Brutix cargohold of 400, with ammo inside can't take too much of the loot too.
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Takaharu Tsuyoshi
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:19:00 -
[18]
Pop into a passive tanked ferox and you can sleep through all lvl 3 missions. While eventually lvl4's get easy for raven/cnr pilots at first they do take a lot of research and isk to get into. To get to the point where you can run them easily does take quite an investment.
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Willis Drummond
Lordless
Unbrella Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Moghydin
The idea of scooping all loot cans is nice, but it takes loads of time to scoop all the cans tha are lying at 5km to 60km distance, even with a tractor beam. And Brutix cargohold of 400, with ammo inside can't take too much of the loot too.
Exequoror's with tractors, cargo expanders and mwd/ab make excellent loot vaccuums. The first time you get a local hull or whatever it's paid for itself.
Awesome Post# 815151 |
faxtarious
Xandak
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:20:00 -
[20]
I do lvl3 in a rifter...if you have all that SP and all these fancy toys, take on a lvl4 mission and stop whining
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Moghydin
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:25:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Carniflex
High sec level 3 missions are approx 5 times less profitable than good 0.0 belt good spawn chaining (approx 3 mil / h or roughly, depending on skills and agent quality). For high sec level 4's relation is something like 1/3 to 1/2 of profits compared to 0.0 belthunting in good system (8 mil / h on better missions + LP and loot against around 20 to 30 where 30 mil / h needs very very good shooting skills on very good spawns and no LP + good loot.)
You would however need to consider, that being in 0.0 requires some other activities from you too, unless you live in NPC space. Like you would need will to defend that space or your trip to 0.0 would be short lived - unless you ofc have others who do the fighting for you. In any case, after factoring in other aspects of 0.0 life I would speculate it's only approx 30 or % more profitable than level 4 missions in high sec space.
The main reason of the thread is that I found out how hard is actually to make ISK with missions in empire. I was in 0.0 and I had no problem replacing any ship (and not that I was ratting 23/7, mostly I was doing other things). I don't have any ISK problems now too, what strikes me is that it's very hard to get a positive flow of ISK in your wallet if you're actually losing ships and doing missions to earn ISK.
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Powder Monkey
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:31:00 -
[22]
YES INDEED MISSIONS ARE A WASTE OF TIME WHEN YOU DO THEM AND THE SERVE TENDS TO CRASH WHILE YOUR BS IS SCRAMBLED AND TAKING HUGE AMOUNTS OF DPS
down with the bloody server !!
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Elizium
Gallente
Phoenix Propulsion Labs
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:36:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Elizium on 08/08/2006 04:36:20
Hrm, my experiences have been slightly different. I run a lot of L3's (Empire Space) and haven't really found them THAT difficult to complete. When they have been (there's a few real tough ones that can take a couple hours to finish), there's usually been reward that I considered worth the effort. Oftentimes, that's not the financial reward but rather the standings reward.
I guess some perspective on what each individual deems a worthy reward is important in this conversation. My goal isn't the money (although I don't find it that bad), but rather if it's gaining me what I need. If my goal was the money, well... I hesistate to speculate because it's not a situation I've been in.
Commodore Elizium - HRO
Phoenix Propulsion Labs
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Aelita
Minmatar
CHON
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:39:00 -
[24]
I were mission runner before dead space mission were introduced into game. That change completely eliminated sniper tactics from missions. At these times missions are comparable to NPC hunt in 0.0.
I'd give it up and I'm dedicated to NPC hunt when I want to make my ISK. I'm very patient so I pick up any loot with my loot account and doing complete refine of all loot. I'm able with my limited playtime (two hours per day) and two accounts (one kill second loot, haul and recycle) in decent 0.0 space (-0.2 security) make around 1bil ISK per month.
Last time I'd decide give missions another try, because I got tip where to do missions to get for LP offers snake implants. OK I'd build up my standing from -2.0 to 5.0 to be able to do agent L4 missions. These agents are stationed in 0.0 near by my hunting spots. Guess what I found after two weeks of grinding L4 agent? I found that I'm fooled by CCP twice.
I must dedicate to game more than 6 hours per day, because average L4 mission take around hour to complete and certain L4 missions like Extravaganza take me up to 8 hours to finish especially because I wasn't able dedicate more than four hours at once so I must do same mission in two steps and if DT occurs whole mission is respawned :(
Result:
Missions push me to play more than NPC hunting I went from 2 hours daily up to 8 hours daily (my wife starts killing me). I did make 1/10 cash as before including agent rewards and again I did loot all and refine it same way as from NPC hunt. What more I found that my LP builds so slowly because I was able to do no more than three missions daily and average LP reward is around 8 000 LP and I need for these implants (each) around 100k LP.
I found taht for me is better keep doing only two hours NPC hunting and I can buy every week one snake implants from mission runners? LOL I found that for me is better just go and buy implant rather than working for it on my own on agents!
I really think CCP went ot of mind when nerfed agents. Trust me there is no such big diference running agents in empire and deep in 0.0. Just simple NPC rats grind will brings ten times more cash for less time to spend.
Hurray! CCP kill all missions *****, but wait! If all people will give it up where I will buy my implants? So please CCP give mission runners a try and undo Nerf Bat Swing at least for 0.0 agents if nothing, because agents in 0.0 are now just pure joke.
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Fuujin
Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:39:00 -
[25]
Like someone said above, move onto level 4's if it's such a problem.
_______________
The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
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faxtarious
Xandak
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:40:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Moghydin
Originally by: Carniflex
High sec level 3 missions are approx 5 times less profitable than good 0.0 belt good spawn chaining (approx 3 mil / h or roughly, depending on skills and agent quality). For high sec level 4's relation is something like 1/3 to 1/2 of profits compared to 0.0 belthunting in good system (8 mil / h on better missions + LP and loot against around 20 to 30 where 30 mil / h needs very very good shooting skills on very good spawns and no LP + good loot.)
You would however need to consider, that being in 0.0 requires some other activities from you too, unless you live in NPC space. Like you would need will to defend that space or your trip to 0.0 would be short lived - unless you ofc have others who do the fighting for you. In any case, after factoring in other aspects of 0.0 life I would speculate it's only approx 30 or % more profitable than level 4 missions in high sec space.
The main reason of the thread is that I found out how hard is actually to make ISK with missions in empire. I was in 0.0 and I had no problem replacing any ship (and not that I was ratting 23/7, mostly I was doing other things). I don't have any ISK problems now too, what strikes me is that it's very hard to get a positive flow of ISK in your wallet if you're actually losing ships and doing missions to earn ISK.
simple...just think out of he box here for a sec...
mission running is not PVP
the only EW you'll need is a webber...
and second..get that GOD DAM tractor beam of that high slot and put a GUN
3th... shiel or armor hardners...and sheild boost or armor rep...what the hell is that ECM doing here...mission running is about durability vs how fast you can pop a rat (big or smal)
4th...analise the mission ahead...and also the "EVE info wil not help ya cauz CCP ain't dumb...these damage types are not precise...they've been changed...so when you are putting hardners...boost the ships weakest resists and leave the ones that's at 60% or 70% (I'm talking T1 ships here)
5th...fit your ship with the guns it was supposed to have (Med and heavies for BC etc..)...do not put a missile or rocet launcher cauz (you think) you can outsmart a frig rat...(use you drones)
6th when you warp in...ZOOM out and look around you...agro them "pack by pack" don't agro the whole dam room
warp in at range and start picking of thesmaller ships first with you guns...(insta pop them frigs from a far!!! )
8thIf you are scrambled...the scrmbler must be your priority...
9th ALWAYS align with an exit point when you are over run (EVEN if you can tank them for a while) and stay till your tank is completely down or till you pop the ship you where about to pop...
I'm not asking you to solo a lvl3 ina frig...(yeah..I know I'm crazy) but just use common sence when rnning mission and use you ship to the fullest...it's NOT PVP..rats have no brains...and you look stupid with that tractor beam on your BC...(don't yuou fill that cargo with ammo ???)
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Uuve Savisaalo
Umbra Congregatio
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:46:00 -
[27]
I am going to say this once at the risk of mortally-offending the content creation people, may they find it in their steely hearts to forgive me, but missions in general are a waste of time - it would be fair to say that missions and complexes in their current form are a needless afterthought.
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faxtarious
Xandak
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:48:00 -
[28]
run a lvl4 "silent the informent"...
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Sarmea Moon
Gallente
Eve University
The Big Blue
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Posted - 2006.08.08 05:16:00 -
[29]
After I started lvl 3 missions, and got my brutix popped in my first Mordus ( insane), I bought a Domi. Even with relatively few skillpoints ( I have 6 mill on my alt), she can sleep through most lvl 3's. She doesn't have to warp out for Mordus at all, either, even with full room agro.
You need either a better setup, or bigger ship. You need to check eve-info for each mission, so you know what hardeners and drones to fit/release. Some missions haven't been updated, but it's a pretty good guideline.
Join channel: "Eve University" or read here |
spurious signal
Caldari
Brainiacs
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Posted - 2006.08.08 05:39:00 -
[30]
Edited by: spurious signal on 08/08/2006 05:39:45
You don't do level 3's for the rewards.
You grind level 3's so that you can get to do level 4's where you can start grinding proper isk.
Your thread topic is spot on though. Missions are a grind, which is, by definition, a waste of time. That's their purpose.
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Lorth
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.08 06:02:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Matori Kar
I must say, its nice to see someone commenting on the relative value of Empire mission running and 0.0 ratting, who has ACTUALLY experienced them both, heh
All you normally see is NERF EMPIRE MISSIONS - make them come to low sec so we can gank em posts
I've done both, and done well at both. And I'll say it again.... NERF EMPIRE missions.
As a whole, they are missions rewards are a little below 0.0 ratting in terms of rewards.
However, they are much much easier to obtain. Very little to no risk in doing so. Very little to no logistics needed. No player interaction. Its easy mode, and the rewards are far to high for it IMO.
But thats my opinion, lets try and not start anouther agent mission thread.
As to the OP, rethink your approach, if you can fly a HAC or a BS, then do so. Its easier to do in those ships, and much faster. Which means your risk is drasically lower, and you can finish the mission in half the time.
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NeoShocker
Caldari
Rebel Death Dealers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.08 08:16:00 -
[32]
I don't know about the OP, but for mission IIIs, it doesn't take long to beat it for me in a Ferox. I do plan to pilot gallente and try Brutix myself too. Tough missions like massive attack and Pirate Invasion, and few others.. Doesn't really take me more than 50 minutes.
IMO, quality 15 is good enough. Try doing -5 one tho'. Now that wasn't worth it :( I have yet to try Agents over 15+, mainly because its far.
-----------------------------------
Peace through Power! - Kane |
EvilNate
Caldari
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2006.08.08 08:27:00 -
[33]
Whats really crap is that you don't get nice loot drops like you do in 0.0 - Grind away in 0.0 long enough and you could find yourself with a faction armour rep which will sell for 100mil+, which is a couple days saved in ratting/mission running.
Getting faction loot from missions would be nice. I'm not saying give them on every mission, but if you are going to increase the risk, then you need to balance the reward and now days, running high quality lvl 4 missions is just as dangerous as ratting in 0.0 due to pirates busting mission spots, if not more so.
Nate.
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Torak Dakos
Amarr
Dark Sabaoth
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Posted - 2006.08.08 08:28:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Torak Dakos on 08/08/2006 08:29:13
Originally by: Moghydin
Edited by: Moghydin on 07/08/2006 22:03:15
Even considering LP's, it's not THAT better. It took me 2.5 hours to complete Pirate Invasion for example.
Then your strategy is poor. It doesn't take me that long to do it and I'm a 5 month old char.
Missions are fine. Just need to move ALL lv4 agents to low sec.
Dark Sabaoth recruiting Amarrian and Caldari pilots. |
Infinity Ziona
Space Elves of Ragnoroth
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Posted - 2006.08.08 08:31:00 -
[35]
Originally by: EvilNate
Whats really crap is that you don't get nice loot drops like you do in 0.0 - Grind away in 0.0 long enough and you could find yourself with a faction armour rep which will sell for 100mil+, which is a couple days saved in ratting/mission running.
Getting faction loot from missions would be nice. I'm not saying give them on every mission, but if you are going to increase the risk, then you need to balance the reward and now days, running high quality lvl 4 missions is just as dangerous as ratting in 0.0 due to pirates busting mission spots, if not more so.
Nate.
You used to be able to get a rare mod but some of the 0.0 crowd got jealous and got it nerfed
'The alliance should not be a solo contentmobile' - Albert Einstein |
Merdaneth
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Posted - 2006.08.08 08:45:00 -
[36]
Actually, it is just the new lvl3 Pirate Invasion that is rather difficult. I lost 2 Prophecy's to that mission just because I couldn't believe how hard it had become. This is the same Prophecy that I used to do the old Pirate Invasion at lvl4 with!
I just couldn't get over it that in was in a ship that could do the old lvl4 with, and was now unable to do the lvl3....
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Sulavan
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Posted - 2006.08.08 09:21:00 -
[37]
I still find the rewards for missions below level 4 to be too high (I won't comment on the level 4 rewards just yet as I'm pretty new to them so can't give a balanced view just yet). Level 3's are so easy they're BORING! and thats on a character with only medioca skills.
- as a side note, I must admit the step in difficulty from level 3 to level 4 was a bit of a shock. Going from missions where the only risk was from falling asleep at your keyboard to near insta pop on entry to dead space was a serious wake up call  (I'm not complaining here, I relish the challenge! It stopped missions from being a sensless grind). I haven't had to warp out of somewhere like that since I was ratting in 0.3 belts in a T1 fitted tristan! 
If the rewards don't compare to the return from ratting, then that just means that the bounties on rats are too high! The Eve economy is massively overheated. You only have to look at the current price of some T2 ships to see that. If the money wasn't there to sell at those prices, then they wouldn't be sold at those prices, simple as.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.08.08 09:45:00 -
[38]
A mission's difficulty depends highly on the ships you have available.
Missile ships have it a lot easier.
--*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Dratheros
Wasteland Industries
Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.08.08 10:07:00 -
[39]
No expert on Agents and Missions in general, but: Are you allowed to do LvL4 missions or lvl5's ( are there even lvl5 ones ) in say a carrier or a dreadnought? Is any ship allowed in any given mission?
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Moghydin
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2006.08.08 14:25:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Lorth
As to the OP, rethink your approach, if you can fly a HAC or a BS, then do so. Its easier to do in those ships, and much faster. Which means your risk is drasically lower, and you can finish the mission in half the time.
Yes, I can fly a bs and I could fly a HAC if, I'd like, in 24h. But the issue here is about the tool to the task. The purpose of missions is to generate ISK. Now, how can buying a bs or a HAC, equipping it with named/T2/faction gear will help to generating ISK. I should spend 200+ mill on a HAC, at least 50 mill on T2 equipment, and do what? Grind lvl 3's with those pathetic rewards of 2 mill per hour if I'm lucky? How long will it take to return the investment? 150h approx? Playing, say 3-4 hours per day it means grinding for let's say 40 day's just get back the ISK. may be it's fine if your only purpose in game is hoarding ISK. But if you try to raise some ISK to spend it later on PvP ships and such? It doesn't look like a good solution.
And why so many ppl demand further nerfing of Empire missions. May be because they have their 0.0 safeheaven where they can farm those fat 0.0 rats with nice faction modules? And plz, don't tell me about the risk out there. I was in that situation. I was hunting 0.0 spawns in a space controlled by my alliance. Was it risky? Yes, but it wasn't too risky. If someone uses own brain, it's not too hard to avoid any trouble, while NPC'ing in 0.0, if you control the space. But those ppl are implying that it's the same for those who have no access to 0.0, for those who will have to say "Hi" to the chokepoint camp each time they enter 0.0 before being sent back to clone station.
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Sulavan
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Posted - 2006.08.08 14:36:00 -
[41]
In a BS or a HAC, you should be able to do at least 3 missions per hour, more if you're not fussed about the poorer drops (unnamed T1 stuff)
Peronally, from 1 weekends light (5-6 hours each day) mission running at level 3, I think I made something in the order of 80mil (rewards + Loot + Mins from melting down poor loot + returns from offers). That was in a BS with basic T1 fittings. So was pretty much a complete return on my investment into a Domi + basic gear.
All that and I count myself pretty poor at mission running as I have poor missioning skills and bad selling skills (both IC and OOC).
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Rose Kolodny
Gallente
Space Invaders
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Posted - 2006.08.08 15:00:00 -
[42]
Whine = total waste of time.
--
Recruiting Video |
Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.08.08 15:08:00 -
[43]
Well the pirate invasion deadspace is a relativly new mission so i'm sure they will be tweaking it some in the future to make it more in line with the other lvl 3 missions. That being said stop trying to nerf empire missions people, please, they are fine, the fact that they give more reward in lowsec fits the (2)Effort^(risk)=reward mold perfectly anyway.
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Anwyl
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.08 15:22:00 -
[44]
You think your missions are bad? Try level 4 cargo missions :-P An hour long mission might give MAYBE 1M, or possibly just 50 civilian capacitors... I know, risk/reward and all that, but most level 4 cargo missions are on the border, and just LOOOVE sending you into 0.4, right into the gatecamps. Personally I don't really need the isk, I just need the faction which it gives in spades. Just saying, you don't know slow income until you try cargo missions.
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eff one
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Posted - 2006.08.08 15:35:00 -
[45]
Haha, funny thread. I can do your mission in a retribution.. and the character only has 4-5mil skill points! what are you doing!?
You really shoudnt complain, before missions came out i ratted in 0.0 space for days to get a few million (max bounty was around 60k)this was ages ago mind you. So when you start complaining that making 2-3 mil in 2 hours is unreasonable dont bother getting uptight about it. PPl have it too easy nowadays anyway in my opinion.
thanks
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Caol
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.08 15:46:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Moghydin
What I saw: Guristas extravaganza mission was average, Spy stash was quite hard and Pirate Invasion is simply insane. I got 3 feroxes and 7-8 cruisers on me, and I got also jammed from time to time. Well, ok. They are hard, so, the reward should be ok. And here's the surprize - the reward is 1.4 mill, including bonus, may be 1-2 more mill on bounty. That's for several hours, grinding the endless stream of NPC's. ISKwise that means 2 average bs spawns in 0.0. Taking into account the time, dedicated to killing all this, the reward is just pathetic.
So, do you think that nerfing missions got too far? Of course they are doable more easily with fully T2 or faction equipped ship, but think about the reward. It's completely disproportionsl comapring the time and the ISK, invested in the equipment (if we're talking about T2 or faction).
To offer a solution:
A person (YOU) with 7mil in gunnery ain't gonna have many SP's in social skills, right? Train those social skills: Social, Negotiation, Connections, etc etc etc. If you have Sp's in social, go to an agent with a high quality (I haven't read anywhere what the quality of your agent was  ).
If you have le Sociale sp's, a high quality agent and are still havig the same "problems" you descibe then....try equipping missiles or a passive tanked ferox? Or, in other words, adapt your setup (see the Setup and Modules forum)
If your still having problems after that then simply refuse the mission when it comes up.
To offer my opinion:
I can't wait to see what Kali and factional warfare brings. Faction = worthwhile => \o/
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Red Ochre
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Posted - 2006.08.08 17:28:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Moghydin
Originally by: Lorth
As to the OP, rethink your approach, if you can fly a HAC or a BS, then do so. Its easier to do in those ships, and much faster. Which means your risk is drasically lower, and you can finish the mission in half the time.
Yes, I can fly a bs and I could fly a HAC if, I'd like, in 24h. But the issue here is about the tool to the task. The purpose of missions is to generate ISK. Now, how can buying a bs or a HAC, equipping it with named/T2/faction gear will help to generating ISK. I should spend 200+ mill on a HAC, at least 50 mill on T2 equipment, and do what? Grind lvl 3's with those pathetic rewards of 2 mill per hour if I'm lucky? How long will it take to return the investment? 150h approx? Playing, say 3-4 hours per day it means grinding for let's say 40 day's just get back the ISK. may be it's fine if your only purpose in game is hoarding ISK. But if you try to raise some ISK to spend it later on PvP ships and such? It doesn't look like a good solution.
And why so many ppl demand further nerfing of Empire missions. May be because they have their 0.0 safeheaven where they can farm those fat 0.0 rats with nice faction modules? And plz, don't tell me about the risk out there. I was in that situation. I was hunting 0.0 spawns in a space controlled by my alliance. Was it risky? Yes, but it wasn't too risky. If someone uses own brain, it's not too hard to avoid any trouble, while NPC'ing in 0.0, if you control the space. But those ppl are implying that it's the same for those who have no access to 0.0, for those who will have to say "Hi" to the chokepoint camp each time they enter 0.0 before being sent back to clone station.
the demand for further "nerfing" of empire missions is not by the majority, its wanted by a select few of malcontents that want more action out in low sec in the form of player prey.
this minority of lowsec rabble do not fly many missions in the first place, and find "missioning" players much more fun and profitable in their eyes. its unfortunate the loudest typing comes from the players with the limited picture of what eve should be and what they want eve to be "right now" according to them.
empire missioning was whacked a good one, and beefed up fighting wise, was it an attempt at forcing players into low sec? probably, it didnt work however. and now the "majority" of folks dealing with harder empire missions, lower rewards/lp by word of mouth, make for very poor advertising.
we could get into the whole i'm a pirate, this is my backyard thing, come out and join my corp so we can generate money thing, (after all, this is all the small number of whining low sec folks ever type about, corps wanting folks to come to low sec, get in that fresh blood, join, and generate cash flow) and the other three basic "i want this" by the anti mission crowd.
CCP went too far on empire mission nerfing, rewards blow, pickups blow (just like the low sec whinies wanted) just mulling around a bit, some interesting ideas put forth by the players, leads me to believe there was a much better way to bring folks out of missioning in empire and bring them out into low sec, but then i am not paid enough to give ideas away, though i am opinionated at times........
note: opinionated/opinion, two totally different meanings, just an fyi. |
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2006.08.08 17:49:00 -
[48]
Edited by: LUGAL MOP''N''GLO on 08/08/2006 17:54:19
Originally by: Lorth
I've done both, and done well at both. And I'll say it again.... NERF EMPIRE missions.
You nerf empire missions and make everyone go to lowsec to run missions and you are going to have pirate corporations blobbing the hell out of mission runners. Missions will no longer be pro*****ble and will ultimately be forgotten. Standing with NPC corps will not be built up.
On the other hand there could be a different twist. Get enough mission runners together and they may protect their own kind, but you'd always have pirates in there looking for easy targets. IMHO, it would make pirating much much too easy. Guys fitting up to go fight guristas, the pirate know pretty much exactly how the mission runners are fit up and fit according to that. Talk about an easy kill.
EDIT: Some may be thinking... Why not just make missions in lowsec more pro*****ble? Perhaps that will force more players into lowsec to get agent missions that pay better standing/lp? I garauntee you if that happened, the pirates camping that system would start running missions. Then you'd just have a big pirate corp camping this system running missions and killing anyone that came in to try and use "their" agent.
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Win a Cynabal for 10ml!!! |
Scarlett Yo'Mason
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Posted - 2006.08.08 22:37:00 -
[49]
I'll ask again: please gimme your setup. I think the 'hardest' lvl 3 mission I had was the new Mordus wich got me to 60% of my armor. Never had to warp out, infinite cap with resistances, armor rep and guns on and I take about 30 minutes in the Pirate Invasion. I'm using drones and NEVER trained a single minute in gunnery skills. Really, if you take 2 hours doing a mission, you should be doing lvl 2's, regardless of how many skill points you have.
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.08.08 22:43:00 -
[50]
Done both, and let me yet again dispell the myth that somehow mission running is better cash than 0.0 ratting, we won;t even touch on how outrageous the money 0.0 people make doing complexes.
0.0 ratting easy to reach 40mill an hour, mission running? lucky to break 10mill an hour. Complex running? har har can easily net over 100mill an hour.
Poor babies in 0.0
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Kiranna
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Posted - 2006.08.09 11:58:00 -
[51]
I havent done as much of this as everyone else but I have ratted in lowsec in a Brutix (until Snigg popped me, but they were polite about it :) ) I have also done level 3s in a Brutix and I'm still doing Lvl 2's in a Vexor, but in lowsec.
In terms of income, the whole human cattle lvl2 sequence nets me about 2mill isk for much less than an hours work generally, and silence the informant easily can net over a million ISK for about 20-30 minutes effort if you get the early finish reward. I found lvls 3s to be a bit tedious and rather hard on my ship (with my skills) compared to the reward for lvls 2, and it's hard to get all the loot, which was not much better than a good level 2.
Also, not sure if this is me or a real event, but I always find the loot is really good just after DT, you seem to get cool stuff on the first mission or 2 after DT before it trails off, that might just me coincidence though, not sure if anyone else has noticed that.
oh, and btw, for every other lvl2 I get about 150k ISK in refined minerals, and normally a bunch of nice named stuff which I take once a day on the trip home to high sec to sell.
As for why I do missions...to fill in the time between factories finishing doing stuff :)
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Guntaro
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Posted - 2006.08.10 03:50:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Moghydin
It happened, that I had to return to missions (I hope not for long). I didn't do them for quite a long time, and my 1-st reaction was - wtf??? I'm talking about lvl 3's here. I took a Brutix, thinking that a bc should be ok. I have quite nice gunnery skills (around 7mill), and although they are mostly allocated in lasers, many supplementary skills are maxed out.
What I saw: Guristas extravaganza mission was average, Spy stash was quite hard and Pirate Invasion is simply insane. I got 3 feroxes and 7-8 cruisers on me, and I got also jammed from time to time. Well, ok. They are hard, so, the reward should be ok. And here's the surprize - the reward is 1.4 mill, including bonus, may be 1-2 more mill on bounty. That's for several hours, grinding the endless stream of NPC's. ISKwise that means 2 average bs spawns in 0.0. Taking into account the time, dedicated to killing all this, the reward is just pathetic.
So, do you think that nerfing missions got too far? Of course they are doable more easily with fully T2 or faction equipped ship, but think about the reward. It's completely disproportionsl comapring the time and the ISK, invested in the equipment (if we're talking about T2 or faction).
Fact is I have lost way more ships to missions than to anything else. Factor those losses in to your reward calculations and doing missions are truely a grueling and masochistic endeavor.
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Willis Drummond
Lordless
Unbrella Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.10 03:59:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Willis Drummond on 10/08/2006 04:01:44
Originally by: Guntaro
Fact is I have lost way more ships to missions than to anything else. Factor those losses in to your reward calculations and doing missions are truely a grueling and masochistic endeavor.
Honestly if this is the case you are either doing something wrong or need to hold off on the missions until you get more SP.
Are you checking eveinfo.com for mission info on what sort of resistances you need and damage type you should be doing? Which ships you need to pew pew first because they scramble? Are you aligning as soon as you warp in?
I've done plenty of missions up to L4 kill missions and I've only lost 1 battleship because I was warping in without fitting properly or looking at who to shoot first because I wanted to see what a L4 was like. After that I've never lost another BS.
I lost a lot of ships in L2 missions because I wasn't planning ahead and didn't understand what I was doing.
Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Awesome Post# 612865[/center] |
Prod Quiche
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.10 06:24:00 -
[54]
Whilst I don't doubt the OP's displeasure with doing L3's I'd like to share that sometimes it's much better....
A week ago I did missions for a L3 positive quality agent in a 0.1 system. I did missions for that agent all day (50/50 kill/courier) and got almost 15500 LP. The next day this same agent offered me the Bureaucratic Connections skillbook. \o/
What I'm trying to say is this; your milage may vary. Working for a low-sec/positive quality agent really helps though!
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Moghydin
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2006.08.10 07:31:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Prod Quiche
Whilst I don't doubt the OP's displeasure with doing L3's I'd like to share that sometimes it's much better....
A week ago I did missions for a L3 positive quality agent in a 0.1 system. I did missions for that agent all day (50/50 kill/courier) and got almost 15500 LP. The next day this same agent offered me the Bureaucratic Connections skillbook. \o/
What I'm trying to say is this; your milage may vary. Working for a low-sec/positive quality agent really helps though!
You are probably talking about 0.0 agent. I know they are good, but only for those who live in 0.0. Atm, I don't live in 0.0, that means, that working for this agent will most likely get me to meet my clone more frequently. I'm talking about Lvl 3's to make ISK in empire, which is a crappy way of making ISK, but it's the only way I have atm.
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Omatje
Minmatar
Confederation of Red Moon
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.10 07:41:00 -
[56]
imo, missions are the first chapter for new players to learn how to fly their ships, and gaining some isk to fund the next class ships for the next lvl of missions.
After that sequence most players will be bored out of their minds with missions, and make their real first steps into the game called Eve:)
I haven't done missions for a long time now, but sometimes i miss the relaxed feeling they gave, playing this game and focussing only on 1 thing, instead of dozens.
In other words, there is only some much missions people can do without going crazy and seeing the other opportunities to make isk, it's a good thing there are soo many ways to do that.
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Fracking Beach
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Posted - 2006.08.10 07:54:00 -
[57]
Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
why is F-I-T-T-A getting filtered as profanity?
it's a swedish language ... profanity :) |
Rafein
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.10 08:33:00 -
[58]
Your only doing level 3 missions.
Now, if you were doing level 4's, OK, maybe someone might care. But level 3's??? You don;t fight any BS's in level 3's. They compare to low sec ratting .1 to .4
So please, at least before you start comparing rates, figure out if what your compairing is even supposed to be in the same ballpark. With logic like yours, I'm going to be sitting here, waiting to see some post about "Why do medium (Insert turret type here) do less damage than large (insert turret type here)" posts.
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Moghydin
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2006.08.10 09:16:00 -
[59]
I'm merely pointing out that it's damn hard to make any decent ISK out of lvl 3's and compensate for your losses in PvP if you're using T2 ships and equip in your PvP fights. I have more than enough standings to do lvl 4's, but I know that those missions are insanely hard and some of them are hardly doable, unless you fly a missile platform (like Raven) which I can not fly. I'm not calling for lvl 3's to be more profitable than lvl 4's. I only say that missions should be an option to raise ISK to replace lost ships without the ratio of 1 lost ship = 2 weeks of missions.
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Willis Drummond
Lordless
Unbrella Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.10 09:18:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Moghydin
I'm merely pointing out that it's damn hard to make any decent ISK out of lvl 3's and compensate for your losses in PvP if you're using T2 ships and equip in your PvP fights. I have more than enough standings to do lvl 4's, but I know that those missions are insanely hard and some of them are hardly doable, unless you fly a missile platform (like Raven) which I can not fly. I'm not calling for lvl 3's to be more profitable than lvl 4's. I only say that missions should be an option to raise ISK to replace lost ships without the ratio of 1 lost ship = 2 weeks of missions.
I did L4 missions in a t1 fitted apocalypse. I know someone who does them in a t1 armageddon.
Awesome Post# 78474 |
Dufas
Amarr
Catalyst Reaction
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.10 09:43:00 -
[61]
Ive been doing lv 4 missions in low sec space and i have done .0 ratting & mining rares and the lv 4 missions come no where close to producing the amount of money you get from .0 living....and you have the same if not more chances of high risk doing lv4's in low sec space as ratting in .0
imho bounties should be higher in lv4 missions...just a bit higher
__________
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Vargrh
Gallente
Stupid People Always Need Killing
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Posted - 2006.08.10 11:30:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Vargrh on 10/08/2006 11:31:38
Edited by: Vargrh on 10/08/2006 11:31:04
I decided to do a few missions, to see what they dropped. I've given up thou as the lag in empire and constant freezes, modules not activating, or activating and not turning off till cap depletion, guns not reloading, etc etc just makes it unplayable. I lost a fully tech II fitted bs the other night as my ship wouldnt warp, modules wouldnt come online etc etc.
I'm going to go back to -10 killing people in low sec empire. If I gank you, petition CCP about the utterly horrendous lag...
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Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.10 11:33:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Vargrh
Edited by: Vargrh on 10/08/2006 11:31:38
Edited by: Vargrh on 10/08/2006 11:31:04
I decided to do a few missions, to see what they dropped. I've given up thou as the lag in empire and constant freezes, modules not activating, or activating and not turning off till cap depletion, guns not reloading, etc etc just makes it unplayable. I lost a fully tech II fitted bs the other night as my ship wouldnt warp, modules wouldnt come online etc etc.
I'm going to go back to -10 killing people in low sec empire. If I gank you, petition CCP about the utterly horrendous lag...
Then don't do missions in Jita....
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Lorette
Gallente
Mythian Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.10 11:36:00 -
[64]
Quote:
Missions = total waste of time
if you look at it that way EVE is a total waste of time and money isnt it?
Some people enjoy them (myself included) and run them, if you dont go mine.
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Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.10 11:36:00 -
[65]
Missions aren't too productive anymore compaired to the old days. Especially with deadspace which seriously limits the speed at which you can run em. But it's not bad IMO. And well I like em.
( for the old E&B peeps, held several of the mission related records on I think it was teh Europa server or something like that. Missions are in my blood. :-D )
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