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CCP Guard C C P C C P Alliance 1019	Posted - 2011.11.25 14:02:00 - [1] - Quote Translating all the text and interfaces in a single shard MMO as vast as EVE is no small feat. And to better prepare us for the future and to better support our players who rely on localized clients, we've been working on something. Read all about it right here and let us know if you have any questions. CCP Guard \| EVE Community Developer

Avila Cracko Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 117	Posted - 2011.11.25 14:02:00 - [2] - Quote 1st
Sable Moran Moran Light Industries 13	Posted - 2011.11.25 14:16:00 - [3] - Quote Fix the 'Comments' linky in the dev blog. Currently it points to the blog itself. Edit: If/when you localise the client _please_ do not force the localised version down the throats of your players. I very much like to keep playing the game in English despite my native language being something else. Thanks. Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Raivi Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 25	Posted - 2011.11.25 14:16:00 - [4] - Quote In before Commander Shepard.
woe kitten DaGi Inc. 37	Posted - 2011.11.25 14:18:00 - [5] - Quote 3rd :) Life is a game. You either win or you lose.-á
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy Spreadsheets Online 10	Posted - 2011.11.25 14:21:00 - [6] - Quote yaay they are buffing the cerebrus
Anvil44 Independent Traders and Builders MPA 36	Posted - 2011.11.25 14:24:00 - [7] - Quote Knowing how tough it can be to translate to another language, even if you are super fluent in both, I can only wish you good luck in this endeavor. I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it.
Tiger's Spirit Troll Hunters INC. 22	Posted - 2011.11.25 14:25:00 - [8] - Quote waste of time
Rakshasa Taisab Sane Industries Inc. 508	Posted - 2011.11.25 14:29:00 - [9] - Quote Quote: pronunciation (in Japanese, used for sorting) WTF do you mean by 'sorting'? I have never come across that term when it comes to Japanese grammar. 84,000 AUR ($420) spent on NeX store for Troll and Profit.
Alastar Frost EVE University Ivy League 5	Posted - 2011.11.25 14:32:00 - [10] - Quote I am a german player. I used the german setting for language for like 10 minutes. Then I switched it back to english. There are two major problems with localized clients: 1. Some of the translations are bad. But you are aware of that and try to improve it, so thats not the real issue. 2. Eve has a international player base and when I speak to someone who is not a german, I need to know the exact names of items and item classes in english. Rather than switching back and forth between the languages, I just use the english client. It is hard to translate the stuff back into english in case you need to talk to someone. Many translations are not straight forward, you have a lot of synonymes and it is hard to choose the right one without knowing the used translation. The localized clients are great for players who stick with people of their own language, but they are near useless for players in international corps and alliances or people who interact with players from everywhere. I dont have a simple solution for that. In some games you can switch the language as long as you hold a hotkey (never searched for that option in eve) or have an option of english tooltips which translate the names. Nevertheless, I like the improvements to correct grammar use in the english client.

Khamelea University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2011.11.25 14:38:00 - [11] - Quote Tiger's Spirit wrote: waste of time Totally agree. Everyone should just speak Japanese, then you would only need one client and you wouldn't need to worry about plurals either :)
hired goon Legio Prima Victrix Imperius Legio Victrix 15	Posted - 2011.11.25 14:40:00 - [12] - Quote Thought this was gonna be a blog about Caracal redesign
Ishanmae Binding Energy 0	Posted - 2011.11.25 14:45:00 - [13] - Quote Jason Edwards wrote: yaay they are buffing the cerebrus Yup, they're making it so that people will eventually spell it right :) How many times have I read Cerebus, Cerebrus or any variation thereof! Cerberus... As in the three-headed dog that guarded the entrance to Hades kingdom, for anyone interested in Greek Mythology... (wikipedia article) Or as in Kerberos, the direct transcription from its greek spelling, which has given its name to the famous authentication protocol. (This is a geek oriented game, isn't it?) Anyway :D Good job working on those translations, it is a welcome improvement, but... as it has been mentioned already, please don't force the localized version upon customers. Keep it up CCP, I really like the way you're going with this Winter Expansion... A very nice balance of small fixes of irritating behaviours and larger changes / new content. And very clear and proactive communication with the players! Thank you!
ArchenTheGreat Pulsar Nebulah Army of Lovers. 10	Posted - 2011.11.25 14:50:00 - [14] - Quote Good luck. Personally I think translating international online games is pointless. Sooner or later you will have to contact another players and then common dictionary is required. It's not a WoW where you have separated servers. People should just learn English, it will make things easier for everyone. And I am saying this as a non-English player.
Arte Aura. Talocan United 0	Posted - 2011.11.25 14:59:00 - [15] - Quote ArchenTheGreat wrote: Good luck. Personally I think translating international online games is pointless. Sooner or later you will have to contact another players and then common dictionary is required. It's not a WoW where you have separated servers. People should just learn English, it will make things easier for everyone. And I am saying this as a non-English player. It's a fair point but consider how much easier it is for non-English speaking players to get into the game if it's localised. To that end, consider it a business decision and therefore worth the effort. As individual's English speaking abilities develop, they can choose to play the English versions if it's workable for them, which would be even easier given the prevelance of 'native speaking' Corps to help the journey. Further to that, the use of all sorts of languages already occurs in local/Corp/Ally channels anyway so the insistance that players stick to learning English would, I dare say fall on deaf ears. Localisation just smooths the passage over that barrier.
thoth rothschild First Aid Emergency Service 34	Posted - 2011.11.25 14:59:00 - [16] - Quote For the people wondering about the doomsday "Maschine des Tages des j++ngsten Gerichtes"
smaster Born-2-Kill 0ccupational Hazzard 7	Posted - 2011.11.25 15:00:00 - [17] - Quote I want the imperial units for EVE online. Its not very helpfull if you have to convert every unit scale in the game in feet and pounds. At least u have included a ingame calculator. THANK YOU

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire 977	Posted - 2011.11.25 15:00:00 - [18] - Quote Coolies GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' Follow me on Twitter @Chribba

Akrasjel Lanate Naquatech Conglomerate 197	Posted - 2011.11.25 15:01:00 - [19] - Quote Interesting...
smaster Born-2-Kill 0ccupational Hazzard 7	Posted - 2011.11.25 15:02:00 - [20] - Quote thoth rothschild wrote: For the people wondering about the doomsday "Maschine des Tages des j++ngsten Gerichtes" The worst translation is still the Miningbarge aka Bergbaubarkasse I am native german and have no idea what that german translation even means Are we supposed to fly with a webster lexicon when turning translations on?

Rakshasa Taisab Sane Industries Inc. 508	Posted - 2011.11.25 15:04:00 - [21] - Quote ArchenTheGreat wrote: Good luck. Personally I think translating international online games is pointless. Sooner or later you will have to contact another players and then common dictionary is required. It's not a WoW where you have separated servers. People should just learn English, it will make things easier for everyone. And I am saying this as a non-English player. I think they should make it randomly display Japanese, English, Norwegian and German sentences, just to make it difficult for those who haven't bothered learning those like me. 84,000 AUR ($420) spent on NeX store for Troll and Profit.
Ravcharas GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda 48	Posted - 2011.11.25 15:10:00 - [22] - Quote Could we have someone from CCP maybe tell us why the client needs to be localized at all? I'm sure there is a bunch of numbers somewhere explaining just how many subscriptions you expect to miss out on but from my perspective I don't really get it.
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 43	Posted - 2011.11.25 15:14:00 - [23] - Quote I hope YOUR cerberus performs better than OUR cerberus Sounds like a very nice project tbh...
Letrange Red Horizon Inc Cascade Probable 31	Posted - 2011.11.25 15:30:00 - [24] - Quote Actually if you're working on this, could you please take a look at the "tab translation" system that's used by FFXIV and FFXI that allows specific terms to be translated in the appropriate language of the game client viewing the chat so someone would for example type in chat: does anyone have 6 x Neutron Blaster I but hitting tab after things that auto translate as you type it would end up like: does (anyone) (have) 6 x (Neutron Blaster I) ? on the english client and if there was a french client looking at the same chat channel it would look like: does (n'importe qui) (avoir) 6 x (Fusil a Neutron I) ? which although not necessarily grammatically correct, a french speaker would at least be able to figure out what you're trying to ask and also it would alleviate the issue raised earlier about knowing the English item names when you want to talk to an international audiences since each client would see the correct translation of the item for that client. At the very least if you use the item link feature, each client should use the localized text which would be a primitive version of this functionality that would be limited to the inventory items (if it doesn't already do this).
Alexandra Alt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 36	Posted - 2011.11.25 15:31:00 - [25] - Quote Translations are so boring and quite a hard work to do when developing, so many things to consider in several languages, left to right, the encoding (although now all is utf-8), the plurals, the grammar, it's really a lot of work, therefore, my sympathies and (although not English I'd rather English only client personally) I applaud for this huge work done, and to be done. Good work.

CCP Ronin C C P C C P Alliance 1	Posted - 2011.11.25 15:53:00 - [26] - Quote To comment on two things I've seen brought up here: - There are no plans to "force" localizations on people. The escape menu will continue to allow you to choose whatever language you like. After all, we are a company that's half-full of foreigners living in Iceland, so we're well aware that people don't always want to use the language of their IP address - As the localization project progresses, we are being very careful to consider the usability of people talking to each other. Our purpose is to encourage as much interaction as possible, not to wall people off in language-gardens.

Mekhana Spiritus Draconis 328	Posted - 2011.11.25 15:58:00 - [27] - Quote Looking forward to a Brazilian Portuguese client?
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari 245	Posted - 2011.11.25 15:58:00 - [28] - Quote One of the most annoying aspects of the localization of the game client has been the translation of links, e.g. solar system links or item exchange contract links. If they're created by someone with a German client, they show up as German for everyone. That's ... problematic. (The bug where warping to a FW plex in a localized client created a localized plex name for everyone, or where scanner probe names were localized for everyone based on the creator's localization, seems to have been fixed :o)) I'm German and I run the English client. Not only do the German translations often sound quite awkward (which partly is due to them being unfamiliar), the translations already causes quite a few communication problems with English-speaking people. A game I knew - forgot which it was - had a pretty nifty i18n support: You could hold shift down for a few seconds, and then it would translate the UI into a different language while it was held down. E.g. you could play it in German, but if you were confused about a term, you could hold down the shift key and see the original term used, and then immediately switch back to German. It was quite a good concept.

CCP Sisyphus C C P C C P Alliance 0	Posted - 2011.11.25 15:59:00 - [29] - Quote smaster wrote: I want the imperial units for EVE online. Its not very helpfull if you have to convert every unit scale in the game in feet and pounds. At least u have included a ingame calculator. THANK YOU no. just no. feet/sec for velocity, mass in pounds/tons.. (need a brain asplode smiley)

Hungry Eyes Ministry of War Amarr Empire 217	Posted - 2011.11.25 16:00:00 - [30] - Quote nm

Nuklearwanze Konstrukteure der Zukunft The Initiative. 0	Posted - 2011.11.25 16:06:00 - [31] - Quote thoth rothschild wrote: For the people wondering about the doomsday "Maschine des Tages des j++ngsten Gerichtes" never understood why they went with such an awkward translation - anyone, who has seen "Dr. Strangelove" dubbed in german, knows a much more straight forward translation: Weltvernichtungswaffe also "Superwaffe" (translated back into english: Superweapon) would be much better (German native speaker, never really used the localized client, as sci-fi-terms generally sound terrible, when translated into german)
Alers Gerats Cold Steel Disciples Cold Steel Alliance 0	Posted - 2011.11.25 16:08:00 - [32] - Quote Is it me or is the link to the German thread not working? And also not a real link? Its also not in the German version of the dev blog.
Schnoo The Schnoo 11	Posted - 2011.11.25 16:08:00 - [33] - Quote I'm not a native Japanese speaker, in fact I can only barely understand complex text, but please don't do translations for solar systems, ship types and modules. Unlike German and Russian, in Japanese it's somewhat popular to use katakanized (the act of transcribing foreign words into Katakana) words, much like the pé+péºpéó (share -> shea) word from the article. In fact, sometimes reading the Japanese in-game channel, I've seen this being quite popular.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari 245	Posted - 2011.11.25 16:11:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Sisyphus wrote: smaster wrote: I want the imperial units for EVE online. Its not very helpfull if you have to convert every unit scale in the game in feet and pounds. At least u have included a ingame calculator. THANK YOU no. just no. feet/sec for velocity, mass in pounds/tons.. How about displaying interceptor speed (and only those) in furlongs per microfortnight? Please? :o) Nuklearwanze wrote: (German native speaker, never really used the localized client, as sci-fi-terms generally sound terrible, when translated into german) I always wondered how German fleets are supposed to sound like. "Flotte, auf das Sternentor ausrichten! Raumverzerrungsantrieb starten!" ... I think I'd be down on the floor laughing myself dead, which is not a very efficient way to play the game! ;-) I actually recently had a Ventrilo discussion with another German guy in my alliance, and after two minutes, we decided to just talk in English because that's easier for both of us than trying to figure out whether to translate a term or just leave it English. I guess it depends a lot on who you play with regularly.
Schnoo The Schnoo 11	Posted - 2011.11.25 16:15:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Sisyphus wrote: smaster wrote: I want the imperial units for EVE online. Its not very helpfull if you have to convert every unit scale in the game in feet and pounds. At least u have included a ingame calculator. THANK YOU no. just no. feet/sec for velocity, mass in pounds/tons.. (need a brain asplode smiley) (While taking part in a late night incursion group) Can someone carry 9005.24 feet3 ore?
Zagdul Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension 185	Posted - 2011.11.25 16:16:00 - [36] - Quote I understand the reason you're doing this as it makes EVE more accessible to people around the world thus opening up a wider player base. I don't knock that and think it's a good idea for you as a company to stay competitive with the type of game you've build and to help it grow. However, I think it may be a bad idea for a few reasons. I really enjoy the fact that in just my alliance I have people from many different parts of the world who's native tongue isn't English. It's fun to learn about their cultures and they enjoy learning about ours, or yours. This new push will further dampen that abliity to happen. Another issue I see arising is calling primaries for people who use their localized client but have a different language speaking Fleet Commander. In my humble opinion, you shouldn't localize the ship types for this reason alone. Most FC's will ask their fleet to sort by distance/name/type etc. and the ability to sort by these in a standardized way is pretty vital. Even if it's localized on the client, but when sorted it follows English no matter what would be cool. It's not Rocket Surgery
GateScout State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.11.25 16:18:00 - [37] - Quote Rakshasa Taisab wrote: Quote: pronunciation (in Japanese, used for sorting) WTF do you mean by 'sorting'? I have never come across that term when it comes to Japanese grammar. I had a long post about this, but the forums just ate it. Go to goggle and search for this: "Sorting in Japanese GÇö An Unsolved Problem" Read that blog post and you'll understand. If you're really interested in this topic, continue reading: http://www.localizingjapan.com
Rabid cat Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2011.11.25 16:21:00 - [38] - Quote If someone in my country wanted to use localized client he would be ganked ganked and ganked until he quit eve.

CCP Sisyphus C C P C C P Alliance 1	Posted - 2011.11.25 16:25:00 - [39] - Quote To put some of these people at ease: Right now we are not localizing types, locations or NPC names. eg, Jita is called Jita in all languages, a Rifter is a Rifter is a Rifter (and is awesome) We have the same concerns about having people in different languages not knowing what other people are saying. Our main hope is that our players will know what is going on and understand, as well as be able to communicate to each other.


CCP Shiny C C P C C P Alliance 30	Posted - 2011.11.25 16:33:00 - [40] - Quote Rakshasa Taisab wrote: Quote: pronunciation (in Japanese, used for sorting) WTF do you mean by 'sorting'? I have never come across that term when it comes to Japanese grammar. Hi, this is about the way code handles the different alphabets living next to each other. You can find some very interesting info here. - CCP Shiny EVE QA/Localization


SilentSkills Estrale Frontiers Project Wildfire 48	Posted - 2011.11.25 16:34:00 - [41] - Quote cool story bro, tl dl?
Knug LiDi N00bFleeT Numquam Ambulare Solus 15	Posted - 2011.11.25 16:34:00 - [42] - Quote Letrange wrote: so someone would for example type in chat: does anyone have 6 x Neutron Blaster I but hitting tab after things that auto translate as you type it would end up like: does (anyone) (have) 6 x (Neutron Blaster I) ? on the english client and if there was a french client looking at the same chat channel it would look like: does (n'importe qui) (avoir) 6 x (Fusil a Neutron I) ? Combine this with EVE voice - so I can swear in English and have it properly translated to be heard in Swedish and Dutch. If only we could fall into a woman's arms without falling into her hands

CCP Ronin C C P C C P Alliance 2	Posted - 2011.11.25 16:40:00 - [43] - Quote Zagdul wrote: I understand the reason you're doing this as it makes EVE more accessible to people around the world thus opening up a wider player base. I don't knock that and think it's a good idea for you as a company to stay competitive with the type of game you've build and to help it grow. However, I think it may be a bad idea for a few reasons. I really enjoy the fact that in just my alliance I have people from many different parts of the world who's native tongue isn't English. It's fun to learn about their cultures and they enjoy learning about ours, or yours. This new push will further dampen that abliity to happen. Another issue I see arising is calling primaries for people who use their localized client but have a different language speaking Fleet Commander. In my humble opinion, you shouldn't localize the ship types for this reason alone. Most FC's will ask their fleet to sort by distance/name/type etc. and the ability to sort by these in a standardized way is pretty vital. Even if it's localized on the client, but when sorted it follows English no matter what would be cool. Hi Zagdul, let me reassure you that we definitely share your concerns. We are all about people from all around the world jumping in on ops together and cooperating. Type names are not being translated for Crucible, and were that to happen in the future, there would be a lot of thought given to usability and cross-language communication. Thanks for bringing up the "Sort by type" issue, I'll make sure that's considered if types ever go through the localization process. One cool thing that people have mentioned when discussing localization is that some fleets will operate primarily in a non-English language, but will have some bilingual FCs who will communicate with others in English and then relay everything back down to their squads. I find that kind of collaboration really cool, and that's what we mean by a system that brings more people together within the EVE experience rather than a system that walls people off.


CCP Shiny C C P C C P Alliance 30	Posted - 2011.11.25 16:57:00 - [44] - Quote Ravcharas wrote: Could we have someone from CCP maybe tell us why the client needs to be localized at all? I'm sure there is a bunch of numbers somewhere explaining just how many subscriptions you expect to miss out on but from my perspective I don't really get it. Well, I would describe it as both, a business decision and a service to the playerbase/potential players. In some countries there are more English speakers than in others, but even for those people that do speak English, the topics that EVE deals with can be quite complex. Consider their technical or (pseudo)scientific nature, but also the areas where you dive deeper into the backstory. For many players it might actually be possible to play with the English client even with limited language skills and indeed I would imagine that many in the regions where we don't have localized clients do exactly that. However, it may be less enjoyable because things may be misunderstood and details missed. Localizing the client makes it easier for people to get into the game and enjoy it. The fact that localization potentially makes international communication harder is very much on our radar and we are trying to find solutions, but I also think that there are plenty of players who stick to corporations of their own language and only have limited interaction with people from other countries. We also know that a certain group of players will use the localized client and another group may not for various reasons, and that is fine. We don't want to force it on anyone, but if people want to use it then it is there - CCP Shiny EVE QA/Localization


CCP Shiny C C P C C P Alliance 30	Posted - 2011.11.25 17:02:00 - [45] - Quote Alastar Frost wrote: The localized clients are great for players who stick with people of their own language, but they are near useless for players in international corps and alliances or people who interact with players from everywhere. Hi, that is true - but I don't think of the group of players who speak English well enough to make a meaningful contribution to an international corporation as the main target group of our localized client. However, we do want to cater to them, too as far as possible and we are trying to find a solution to that situation. - CCP Shiny EVE QA/Localization

roigon Per.ly The 20 Minuters 0	Posted - 2011.11.25 17:10:00 - [46] - Quote Someone already mentioned this, but I was wondering what CCP's views on this are. As far as I know when an non-english client launches probes or the likes, he will launch probes with a name in their own language. This actually gives additional intel. If I see probes in my WH that are in english, they could be my corp mates. But if I see for instance german probes, I know we have a bogey. Now obviously this works two ways, an all german corp who for whatever reason prefer the german client will easily discern that english probes are not theirs. Now this is far from being an issue, wouldn't even call it a issue. But I find it weird that reality differences create in-game differences on that level. Also, I noticed in some other thread were you where looking for dutch native speakers among others. For the love of god, stop wasting your time on that right now. That 1 dutch person that doesn't know english will just have to harden the **** up. There are dead languages that have more native speakers and I've yet to meet a monolingual dutch person. Heck, a common complaint among expats is that it's impossible to learn dutch because everyone will just switch to english as soon as they notice the speaker isn't a native speaker. On a side note, thank you for already stating that you will make it an optional choice to use the localization.

CCP Shiny C C P C C P Alliance 30	Posted - 2011.11.25 17:14:00 - [47] - Quote Knug LiDi wrote: Combine this with EVE voice - so I can swear in English and have it properly translated to be heard in Swedish and Dutch. I had visions of Aura smacking me on VO if I lose a ship. We should have her use Bavarian swearing, too - CCP Shiny EVE QA/Localization

Krans Hopeson Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2011.11.25 17:15:00 - [48] - Quote I've been involved in localisation of several software projects, using C, Python and Scheme. Why is CCP re-inventing the wheel with this? gettext has supported translating messages with differing number conventions forever and a day.

CCP Shiny C C P C C P Alliance 30	Posted - 2011.11.25 17:20:00 - [49] - Quote roigon wrote: Someone already mentioned this, but I was wondering what CCP's views on this are. As far as I know when an non-english client launches probes or the likes, he will launch probes with a name in their own language. This actually gives additional intel. If I see probes in my WH that are in english, they could be my corp mates. But if I see for instance german probes, I know we have a bogey. Now obviously this works two ways, an all german corp who for whatever reason prefer the german client will easily discern that english probes are not theirs. Now this is far from being an issue, wouldn't even call it a issue. But I find it weird that reality differences create in-game differences on that level. We are aware of that one and (as far as I am aware) consider it a defect, but not one that is trivial to fix. - CCP Shiny EVE QA/Localization

Gevlin SMANews.net SpaceMonkey's Alliance 42	Posted - 2011.11.25 17:26:00 - [50] - Quote I look forward to being able to communicate with the Korean Neighbors in English I hope the Serbus does become an option for real time talking in Local and in Alliance speak. Oh can there be an option for swearing converter like when a guy says "**** you" - it will respond with " I wish to have an Adult interaction with you" Some foreign language translation should be a laugh Riot. As Different Cultures curse in different ways. I was following the WOD - Serbus was mentioned as a feature for WOD that was being given to EVE, as apart of the Carbon exchange between Projects. Am I wrong on this? I agree with several people: CCP needs to focus most of eve's recources on FIS, but the development of WIS still needs to continue, just as a slower and more efficient pace. In eve I wish to be more than just a machine.

AnkaD Amok. Goonswarm Federation 4	Posted - 2011.11.25 17:42:00 - [51] - Quote The Doomsday reanslation would actually mean: Machine of Judgement Day translated back into english. Bergbaubarkassen for Mining Barges otoh is pretty good in my opinion.
Nova Fox Novafox Shipyards 400	Posted - 2011.11.25 17:52:00 - [52] - Quote Hey developers while you are at making the client look up terms and terminology. Have you considered an auto translate feature for players to be able to use? Final Fantasy 11 had such system which allowed for construction of some horribly but understoodable sentences. The process had a player starts typing out a term/word or browing for one in a catagorized libary of words and then he presses tab in which a number of words would be selectable for the player. Once he made his decision the word would be brackected (though bolding would work here) which indicated that no matter what language of the client is on the other end its going to be convereted to the client's own language. So if an english player a autotranslates {Surrender} in his client it will still read as such when he transmits to a channel he can read on but when it arrives on a german client it will read as {Kapitulation} or on a russian client as {-¦-¦-+-+-é-â-+-Å-å-+-Å}. (Please dont shoot me all translations provided by google.) Nova Fox Shipyards Inventory
Zendoren Aktaeon Industries The Black Armada 50	Posted - 2011.11.25 18:18:00 - [53] - Quote What does this mean in terms of future UI improvements as a whole. Will this constrain a possible overhaul of the UI (which it sorely needs) or will this benefit it? Please explain why or why not. G¥Æ Single G¥Æ Taken G£ö Playing EVE Online CCP Guard > Where's the shoot button on this thing? CCP Space Cadet > What's this "offline guns" button do? http://tinyurl.com/dxwseds
Ancy Denaries Frontier Venture 14	Posted - 2011.11.25 18:19:00 - [54] - Quote thoth rothschild wrote: For the people wondering about the doomsday "Maschine des Tages des j++ngsten Gerichtes" Oh god, that is horrible! O_o
Leovarian Lavitz Azule Dragoons Sspectre 3	Posted - 2011.11.25 18:20:00 - [55] - Quote Related to game localization is player communication. I feel that perhaps partnering with a major translator such as Google translate you could enable real-time translation as an option for the clients without additional server load (The client could right-click auto-translate). Just an idea.

CCP Ronin C C P C C P Alliance 2	Posted - 2011.11.25 18:24:00 - [56] - Quote Gevlin wrote: I look forward to being able to communicate with the Korean Neighbors in English I hope the Serbus does become an option for real time talking in Local and in Alliance speak. Oh can there be an option for swearing converter like when a guy says "**** you" - it will respond with " I wish to have an Adult interaction with you" Some foreign language translation should be a laugh Riot. As Different Cultures curse in different ways. I was following the WOD - Serbus was mentioned as a feature for WOD that was being given to EVE, as apart of the Carbon exchange between Projects. Am I wrong on this? Correct. Team Cerberus is a team of WoD developers that developed Cerberus as shared Carbon technology.


CCP Ronin C C P C C P Alliance 2	Posted - 2011.11.25 18:28:00 - [57] - Quote Zendoren wrote: What does this mean in terms of future UI improvements as a whole. Will this constrain a possible overhaul of the UI (which it sorely needs) or will this benefit it? Please explain why or why not. We actually have a pseudo-localization tool with Cerberus, which will keep strings in a mostly-readable English form, but using accented, Cyrillic or Chinese/Japanese characters to emulate the localized experience. This tool is now used by UI devs and QA to test the localized experience during the development process. We're hopeful that this will help bring issues to light sooner than waiting for turn-around on translations and then waiting for a bug to be reported by a native Russian or German speaker.


CCP Guard C C P C C P Alliance 1026	Posted - 2011.11.25 18:32:00 - [58] - Quote Mekhana wrote: Looking forward to a Brazilian Portuguese client? I know a little Brazilian Ju Jitsu and I went to Portugal with my graduation class. I feel like we're connected :D CCP Guard \| EVE Community Developer

Schnoo The Schnoo 13	Posted - 2011.11.25 18:34:00 - [59] - Quote Leovarian Lavitz wrote: Related to game localization is player communication. I feel that perhaps partnering with a major translator such as Google translate you could enable real-time translation as an option for the clients without additional server load (The client could right-click auto-translate). Just an idea. Yeah, it's perfect, isn't it: http://translationparty.com/#9978612. Jokes aside, languages with drastically different grammar like English and Japanese are hard to translate. It works fine in cases like English/Serbian or even English/Deutsch which differ slightly.
David Magnus 75	Posted - 2011.11.25 19:33:00 - [60] - Quote That's great! I'm glad that EVE will be available to more people in more places! http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/winterupdate http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/pandemiclegion

Matalok Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 10	Posted - 2011.11.25 19:38:00 - [61] - Quote As someone who has done some i18n and i10n on a few apps, I tip my hat to the devs. This is no easy job and it generally gets overlooked by people.
nardaq Orion Expeditions 1	Posted - 2011.11.25 19:58:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Shiny wrote: roigon wrote: Someone already mentioned this, but I was wondering what CCP's views on this are. As far as I know when an non-english client launches probes or the likes, he will launch probes with a name in their own language. This actually gives additional intel. If I see probes in my WH that are in english, they could be my corp mates. But if I see for instance german probes, I know we have a bogey. Now obviously this works two ways, an all german corp who for whatever reason prefer the german client will easily discern that english probes are not theirs. Now this is far from being an issue, wouldn't even call it a issue. But I find it weird that reality differences create in-game differences on that level. We are aware of that one and (as far as I am aware) consider it a defect, but not one that is trivial to fix. keep the translation locally? For example if some one is linking a "solar system" on a English client, the other client will get the translation on whatever language they set it on
Astrid Stjerna Teraa Matar 102	Posted - 2011.11.25 20:18:00 - [63] - Quote Krans Hopeson wrote: I've been involved in localisation of several software projects, using C, Python and Scheme. Why is CCP re-inventing the wheel with this? gettext has supported translating messages with differing number conventions forever and a day. Because a lot of what we say in English contains metaphor and idiom. For insance, I can say 'hit the road' in English, and someone that speaks English to a reasonable degree will probably know what I'm saying. On the other hand, if I were to say 'Hit the road' in French or Japanese, someone that's not familiar with English idiom would hear me saying that I'm going to physically assault a roadway.
Obsidian Hawk RONA Corporation RONA Directorate 253	Posted - 2011.11.25 20:30:00 - [64] - Quote This is cool. Might help get more players who do not speak or understand english well.
roigon Per.ly The 20 Minuters 0	Posted - 2011.11.25 20:30:00 - [65] - Quote Astrid Stjerna wrote: Krans Hopeson wrote: I've been involved in localisation of several software projects, using C, Python and Scheme. Why is CCP re-inventing the wheel with this? gettext has supported translating messages with differing number conventions forever and a day. Because a lot of what we say in English contains metaphor and idiom. For insance, I can say 'hit the road' in English, and someone that speaks English to a reasonable degree will probably know what I'm saying. On the other hand, if I were to say 'Hit the road' in French or Japanese, someone that's not familiar with English idiom would hear me saying that I'm going to physically assault a roadway. gettext is a widely used generic solution to facilitating translation in applications. Not the translation itself obviously. You basically use coded keyword strings in place of the text and tell gettext to translate those, then in actual translation files you have the actual translations of those keywords. The benefit of using a pre-existing solution like gettext is that a lot of things have already been thought about and implemented, and a lot of developers and perhaps more important translators will already be familiar with the way it works and the associated syntax.
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 266	Posted - 2011.11.25 20:40:00 - [66] - Quote Fact is that many people don't play Eve just because they're english averse, for whatever reason like education or stupid people trolling others english level. This is an excellent idea that will certainly bring more people and this can only be good for all of us CCP/players Now I'll most probably never go there not because of some nasty stuff but because we're better trying to comunicate all together and try to understand eatch other, improves other people like me English level of comprehension and things are far easy to improve/understand when we all talk the same language, even when we do a lot of grammar mistakes, doesn't matter, intelligent people will always understand, stupid ones you can use academic english whatsoever they will never understand anyway. Thing is that separated groups are already there and don't like or try to comunicate with others because of langage barrier, using local clients will just bring more people witch is good but also more understanding issues between players witch is also good for destroying stuff.
Rattus Norwegius 0	Posted - 2011.11.25 20:57:00 - [67] - Quote CCP Shiny wrote: Hi, this is about the way code handles the different alphabets living next to each other. You can find some very interesting info here. Ooooh! Shiny!
Peter Tjordenskiold 9	Posted - 2011.11.25 21:55:00 - [68] - Quote To have a localized client is necessary, but for myself as an german player, I would never use the localized client. Many of the expressions used in game are a sort of a standart. The challenge to localize the EVE client must be funny. Some wishes: 1) translate locally on the client. It's ugly to see probes with russian or german description in space 2) make the UI fast switchable, so that a pilot can use english to adapt his alliance, but can press a key to read a longer description in his language. This would be great for many pilots trying to interact with other pilots from the hole world, but without excellent english knowledge. 3) Don't translate types. It's simply not working when it comes to work together.
Dareth Meroul OMRE 1	Posted - 2011.11.25 23:16:00 - [69] - Quote Peter Tjordenskiold wrote: 2) make the UI fast switchable, so that a pilot can use english to adapt his alliance, but can press a key to read a longer description in his language. This would be great for many pilots trying to interact with other pilots from the hole world, but without excellent english knowledge. This is a nice idea, and would go a long way towards easing the difficulties for multi-lingual corps & fleets. It kind of reminds me of the functionality in Google Chrome, where you hover over a bit of text to see it in the original language... but reversed in this example.
Alastar Frost EVE University Ivy League 5	Posted - 2011.11.26 01:21:00 - [70] - Quote Ok, after the initial post, I checked the options menue and the feature isnt there, so here again: Add a shortcut that allows to temprarily switch the language of the client. As long as you hold the key, the languge switches to your "secondary language". For people who are not good at english, this allows to play in their native language but get translations fast if they dont know the english name of "whatever" if they want to talk about it in english chat. For the more advanced english speakers, it allows to switch back to the native language for a moment instead of using a dictionary (dual monitors ftw). The trick is doing this in an instand without going to the esc menue or even closing windows. just hit the buttion and the language switches. If you stop pressing it, it switches back. I have seen this feature in other games, and i like it. And it shoudnt be too hard to do (i hope. Dont know how the localization part is implemented )

Diplomatic Baggage Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.11.26 04:18:00 - [71] - Quote Any chance of a Localization for English as opposed to the default of American English?
Nyla Skin Caldari Provisions Caldari State 35	Posted - 2011.11.26 06:55:00 - [72] - Quote I hope that the client language will always be optional. Personally I prefer reading eveclient in english rather than finnish despite living in Finland.

CCP Sisyphus C C P C C P Alliance 6	Posted - 2011.11.26 10:17:00 - [73] - Quote Peter Tjordenskiold wrote: Some wishes: 1) translate locally on the client. It's ugly to see probes with russian or german description in space 2) make the UI fast switchable, so that a pilot can use english to adapt his alliance, but can press a key to read a longer description in his language. This would be great for many pilots trying to interact with other pilots from the hole world, but without excellent english knowledge. 3) Don't translate types. It's simply not working when it comes to work together. Lets go through these - as a lot of others have voiced the same. 1) Translating locally - well, depends. Different parts of the game work in slightly different ways. But our goal is that you will only see text in the chosen language. So if you are using an english client, you will ONLY see english texts, similarly for other languages. 2) We actually got part way to this, but uncovered a heap (technical term there ) of exceptions that confused the issue and are complicated to fix. If we are given some time we'd like to get back to this, but no promises. 3) Right now, as we've said, we're not translating types, locations or NPCs. We're trying to work out how to deal with incomprehensible text though. -¦-+-¦-¦-+-î or Tüïsæ+ mean nothing to english speakers - just a string of shapes that might be hard to differentiate from other strings... Now think how some japanese or russian speakers might think about english text if they are not comfortable with english?

Avensys United Highsec Front The 99 Percent 0	Posted - 2011.11.26 10:18:00 - [74] - Quote German player here - I try the German client about once a year driven by some sort of morbid curiosity but I could never use it permanently. In my opinion the German translation suffers a lot from trying to translate the terms used by the English client as directly into German as possible. More often than not the results are extremely cringeworthy. In the 70s/80s a crazy amount of American SF novels has been translated into German and these translations are usually very readable. German is no bad language to translate SF content into per se but to produce a reasonable translation you have to be aware of the naming conventions that have formed over the last 50 years in German SF. "Naive" translations just sound extremely uncomfortable & weird. Sometimes I feel as if the translators responsible for the German client have no prior experience with German SF content (novels, short stories, TV productions, anything) at all and just try to translate EVE the same way they would translate a technical manual. Please get us some translators that grew up on German Science Fiction novels and have them (re-)do the job!
J3ssica Alba Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2011.11.26 11:26:00 - [75] - Quote My native language isn't English but it is (or should be) the world's common language. If you don't know English you are missing out on a lot of business opportunities.

CCP Ronin C C P C C P Alliance 7	Posted - 2011.11.26 19:01:00 - [76] - Quote J3ssica Alba wrote: My native language isn't English but it is (or should be) the world's common language. If you don't know English you are missing out on a lot of business opportunities. Doesn't mean you have to miss out on awesome spaceship pewpew though


CCP Shiny C C P C C P Alliance 39	Posted - 2011.11.26 19:21:00 - [77] - Quote Avensys wrote: German player here - I try the German client about once a year driven by some sort of morbid curiosity but I could never use it permanently. In my opinion the German translation suffers a lot from trying to translate the terms used by the English client as directly into German as possible. More often than not the results are extremely cringeworthy. In the 70s/80s a crazy amount of American SF novels has been translated into German and these translations are usually very readable. German is no bad language to translate SF content into per se but to produce a reasonable translation you have to be aware of the naming conventions that have formed over the last 50 years in German SF. "Naive" translations just sound extremely uncomfortable & weird. Sometimes I feel as if the translators responsible for the German client have no prior experience with German SF content (novels, short stories, TV productions, anything) at all and just try to translate EVE the same way they would translate a technical manual. Please get us some translators that grew up on German Science Fiction novels and have them (re-)do the job! I would be interested in an example of a SF novel you would consider a good translation. - CCP Shiny EVE QA/Localization

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai 93	Posted - 2011.11.26 21:23:00 - [78] - Quote I don't understand much of the technical detail, but, I hope that the community is allowed to have a word in translation, because it's very likely that every community already developed its own jargon, both formal and not so formal, as for what is translated, what not, and how things are translated. In Spanish, many technical stuff is plain adapted phonetically... so "warp" becomes "warpear", which is not orthodox and makes little baby Jesus cry,but it's a very common word, as "jamear" and "escramblear" and "webear". Many translations fail to use what words the speakers say, and so they defeat their purpose... players will not learn a new jargon and 3rd parties likely will not know what players are actualy using, orthodox or don't, so the developers spend money buying a translation nobody uses because it would force them to use unnatural words, or just learn a new jargon. To the point: people already is speaking their language when they play EVE, let them have a word on how to make a "standard" localization. So... no affordable NEx store... no full-fledged Incarna... no new casual content... no new solo content... no new PvE content...-á Why should I keep paying to play this game?
lachrymus Czerka. The Methodical Alliance 1	Posted - 2011.11.27 01:38:00 - [79] - Quote CCP Sisyphus wrote: smaster wrote: I want the imperial units for EVE online. Its not very helpfull if you have to convert every unit scale in the game in feet and pounds. At least u have included a ingame calculator. THANK YOU no. just no. feet/sec for velocity, mass in pounds/tons.. (need a brain asplode smiley) This. The rest of the world uses metric. Learn it.
Naso Gomez Astral Edge 15	Posted - 2011.11.27 02:56:00 - [80] - Quote Today I learned, the Japanese language doesn't have plurals

mkint 388	Posted - 2011.11.27 04:40:00 - [81] - Quote English speaker here have only been involved with international corps. What if there were varying levels of localization? A lite translation would have only info tabs translated but attributes and commands would be in English. This would mean those users would recognize jump commands when the fc calls it. They would be able to discuss things like tracking issues that mostly happens on attributes tabs. A japenese lite version might use Japanese characters to spell the English pronunciation. Include a full translation option but the lite version would help with full language integration.
ZaBob Twilight Labs Unsung Voices 12	Posted - 2011.11.27 05:34:00 - [82] - Quote Naso Gomez wrote: Today I learned, the Japanese language doesn't have plurals OK, well, now you can learn that it does, sort of.... For example, consider person: S¦¦ (hito) And now, let's consider people: S¦¦pÇà (hitobito -- the second character means to repeat the first, and the consonant part of the sound shifts from "h" to "b"0. Got it? No, you don't! Consider man: tö+ (otoko) Consider men: tö+püƒpüí (otokotachi) Sometimes, "-tachi" is added to indicate plurals. But usually, it's just left to context. And sometimes, you just count: S+ÇsÇï (ikko)pÇüS¦îsÇï (niko)pÇüS+ësÇï (sanko) or, hmm, S+Çpüñ (hitotsu)pÇüS¦îpüñ (futatsu)pÇüS+ëpüñ (mitsu) or S+ÇµPÜ (ichimai)pÇüS¦îµPÜ (nimai)pÇüS+ëµPÜ (sanmai) or S+ÇS¦¦(hitori),S¦îS¦¦ (futari)pÇüS+ëS¦¦ (sannin) or S+Çµ£¼ (ippon), S¦îµ£¼ (nihon)pÇüS+ëµ£¼ (sanbon -- there's that shift from "h" to "b' again) or, well, I really don't know how many ways there are to count in Japanese. I've never counted. The thing is, in any one context, only one of these will be right. For example, long thin things, like, for example, pencils, will be counted like S+Çµ£¼,S¦îµ£¼pÇüS+ëµ£¼. Weird, eh? But you want to know what's MORE weird? Try coming up with a rule for what preposition to use when, in English. And when to use a direct or indirect object.
ZaBob Twilight Labs Unsung Voices 12	Posted - 2011.11.27 05:47:00 - [83] - Quote mkint wrote: English speaker here have only been involved with international corps. What if there were varying levels of localization? A lite translation would have only info tabs translated but attributes and commands would be in English. This would mean those users would recognize jump commands when the fc calls it. They would be able to discuss things like tracking issues that mostly happens on attributes tabs. A japenese lite version might use Japanese characters to spell the English pronunciation. Include a full translation option but the lite version would help with full language integration. That's a germ of an interesting idea, I think. Rather than a "lite" mode, I'd suggest a "fleet" mode, that would use the English terms (or perhaps a selectable language) , but have the mouse-over show the native language. If the FC is speaking English, I'm not sure it would really be helpful to have the "english pronunciation" in Japanese characters. Japanese, being such a strongly syllabic language, really rather mangles the English when you try to force English into it. Any sequence of consonants generally turns into a whole series of syllables, and a lot of information is lost due to the limited selection of consonant sounds to begin with. There are a grand total of 50 basic syllables, plus 20 hybrids, in the entire language. That's it. So what works with German or Russian may not work so well with Japanese. I don't have any modern data, but I strongly expect that the typical Japanese Eve player would be quite comfortable with roman letters (romaji) for English terms. You'll find them everywhere from technical literature to advertising. Typically, they only get converted to katakana when they start to become integrated into the language. For example, pé+péºpéó for "share".
ZaBob Twilight Labs Unsung Voices 12	Posted - 2011.11.27 06:07:00 - [84] - Quote GateScout wrote: Rakshasa Taisab wrote: Quote: pronunciation (in Japanese, used for sorting) WTF do you mean by 'sorting'? I have never come across that term when it comes to Japanese grammar. I had a long post about this, but the forums just ate it. Go to goggle and search for this: "Sorting in Japanese GÇö An Unsolved Problem" Read that blog post and you'll understand. If you're really interested in this topic, continue reading: http://www.localizingjapan.com That's an interesting blog post, but I take a bit of issue with "unsolved problem". A better characterization would be "a problem without a commonly-agreed upon solution". There is a very clear and distinct sorting order used in Japanese dictionaries. Well, there's more than one variation of it, but it's something that Japanese kids learn growing up. Rather than describe it at length, let me point out that the key point in dictionary ordering is that it is NOT based on pronunciation for the Kanji ideographs. (It is, for kana). Rather, it is based on a key structural portion of each character, and stroke count. In fact, sorting international text is a pretty-well understood problem. That doesn't mean well agreed-upon -- but there IS a standard framework: the Unicode 6.0 standard. http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/ The key is that you don't sort on character codes, either. and the exact desired collation order will depend on locale. If you read that above link, you'll see you don't even sort on any simple mapping of character codes, but rather on "collation units". That's because other languages have things like accent marks (of varying language-specific impact on sorting and character identity) and combining forms, etc. The bottom line is, while we may not have universal agreement on any particular collation sequence, sorting to a desired collation sequence IS a solved problem, and we pretty much understand where the disagreements lie. We humans have evolved an amazing variety of ways of recording our thoughts on paper. And sorting is so important, that even when we tens of thousands of characters, we find ways to sort them.
ZaBob Twilight Labs Unsung Voices 12	Posted - 2011.11.27 06:16:00 - [85] - Quote And finally -- the reason I visited this thread in the first place: CCP Shiny and crew: Congratulations on diving into an endlessly complex and challenging problem. It looks to me like you're pushing this a bit further than usual, from just "localized text", just a bit into the territory of "natural language generation". For the people wondering why not just use gettext -- gettext is pretty limited. It's good enough for what it's intended for, but when you start trying to compose complex explanations, that starts to break down. CCP deserves credit for trying to push things a bit further toward true internationalization. Whether it was worth the effort or not -- aye, that's always the rub. You always find internationalization to be harder than you think it will be going in.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai 94	Posted - 2011.11.27 11:14:00 - [86] - Quote ZaBob wrote: (lenghty expxalnation, several posts long, about the intricacies of Japanese language This is why they signed an agreement with a giant Korean corporation (NEXON) to market EVE Online to Japanese customers in Japanese... Translating is a very complex issue because every language represents a mindset: FAI, what things do have a name and what things do not have a name... A quick instance: in English there is that word, "tonight", which does not translate into Spanish (the closest is "esta noche", which can be either last night or tonight), whereas in Spanish there is another word, "anoche", which does not translate to English as it means "last night". So in English the upcoming night has got a name but not the last night, whereas in Spanish the last night has got a name but the upcoming one doesn't... and we're talking about languages geographically and culturally close. I kinda wonder what concepts that we meet in EVE are actually Icelandic words (a part of Icelandic mindset, like "dry shark is yummy") roughly adapted into a different mindset (English)... So... no affordable NEx store... no full-fledged Incarna... no new casual content... no new solo content... no new PvE content...-á Why should I keep paying to play this game?
Rakshasa Taisab Sane Industries Inc. 508	Posted - 2011.11.27 16:34:00 - [87] - Quote GateScout wrote: Rakshasa Taisab wrote: Quote: pronunciation (in Japanese, used for sorting) WTF do you mean by 'sorting'? I have never come across that term when it comes to Japanese grammar. I had a long post about this, but the forums just ate it. Go to goggle and search for this: "Sorting in Japanese GÇö An Unsolved Problem" Read that blog post and you'll understand. If you're really interested in this topic, continue reading: http://www.localizingjapan.com Actually I know perfectly well about Japanese character encoding and lexical sorting, as both a coder and a Japanese speaker. What threw me off was the use of 'pronunciation', when the more commonly used term is 'reading' of a kanji or compound. The two main types of readings of a kanji character are called onyomi and kunyomi (-yomi means reading), native reading and sino-japanese reading. 84,000 AUR ($420) spent on NeX store for Troll and Profit.


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