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Jim'ard Stone
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.11 19:21:00 -
[1]
There still doing too much dmg to frigates its not on a turreted bs is screwed with tracking, missles are still hitting CCP please sort this out, torps and cruise should do zip nothing nada dmg to frigates espcially ceptors unless the mwd is active.
Missles are still the easiest weapon to use, and caldari missle ships are the newbie race ships of eve. More choice of missle and more reliance on Sig radius and more reliance on transversal.
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Abe LeRoy
Caldari
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.08.11 19:31:00 -
[2]
The gag "nerf missiles again" posts are kinda worn out by now 
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Lucian Corvinus
Gallente
Expert Systems
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Posted - 2006.08.11 20:24:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Jim'ard Stone
There still doing too much dmg to frigates its not on a turreted bs is screwed with tracking, missles are still hitting CCP please sort this out, torps and cruise should do zip nothing nada dmg to frigates espcially ceptors unless the mwd is active.
Missles are still the easiest weapon to use, and caldari missle ships are the newbie race ships of eve. More choice of missle and more reliance on Sig radius and more reliance on transversal.
whhhaaaaa whaa whaaa, I suck, and I get killed, CCP please nerf everyone else so I can be uber
Ohh, and grow some balls and post with your main, nub
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Sanctus Gabriel
Mordu's Elite
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Posted - 2006.08.11 20:59:00 -
[4]
Torps must be nerfed because the uber pvper Ginger Magician says so http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=377585
and he cant be wrong
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.08.11 21:01:00 -
[5]
Hmmm yes, definately. Or maybe not. Do you have some more info for your claim?
Or do you have a problem with being doublewebbed, mwd just started, a lot of painting going on?
--*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Waxau
Liberty Rogues
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2006.08.11 21:04:00 -
[6]
hey - ya gotta watch those ebil torps - they bump ya
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Master OlavPancrazio
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Posted - 2006.08.11 21:06:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Master OlavPancrazio on 11/08/2006 21:06:29
I got hit for 50 damage by a t2 torp hitting me when my crow was orbiting a gate w/o mwd on. I have level 4 inty skill so my sig is pretty low.
Frankly, I could see where people come from saying nerf torpedos. Only the t2 precision cruise should be able to really dent frigates. I would totally be ok with increasing the explosion radius of jav torps.
Considering I'm all caldari specced, this isn't a really biased opinion. As soon as I can I'm training for t2 torps and I don't think I'll ever need to use cruises the way the torps hit now.
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D One
mega mining corporation
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Posted - 2006.08.11 21:10:00 -
[8]
Yeah, torps are way overpowered. Lets make them do the same damage as blasters. Oh wait, that'd be a damage boost... Never mind...
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Stamm
Amarr
GALAXIAN
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Posted - 2006.08.11 21:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: D One
Yeah, torps are way overpowered. Lets make them do the same damage as blasters. Oh wait, that'd be a damage boost... Never mind...
Soon as I get precision multifrequency crystals you can get your blaster damage missiles.
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Nahia Senne
Fortunis Novum
Black Flag Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.11 22:34:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Stamm
Originally by: D One
Yeah, torps are way overpowered. Lets make them do the same damage as blasters. Oh wait, that'd be a damage boost... Never mind...
Soon as I get precision multifrequency crystals you can get your blaster damage missiles.
/signed
/signed once more
/signed once more for a good measure
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voidvim
Minmatar
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.08.11 22:55:00 -
[11]
large turret hit figates for huge dmage when their about 100km away and I have snipe planty of small ship with large turrets. torpedos on the other hand do hardy any damage to frigates even when webed and target painted.
Honestly I don't see the problem
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El Nemico
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Posted - 2006.08.11 23:19:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jim'ard Stone
There still doing too much dmg to frigates its not on a turreted bs is screwed with tracking, missles are still hitting CCP please sort this out, torps and cruise should do zip nothing nada dmg to frigates espcially ceptors unless the mwd is active.
Missles are still the easiest weapon to use, and caldari missle ships are the newbie race ships of eve. More choice of missle and more reliance on Sig radius and more reliance on transversal.
Well, friggies speedtank... put on an ab and fly away... in fact, just nerf the torps... drones will rip you apart anyway...
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Lolita Humbert
Caldari
Spectre Six
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Posted - 2006.08.11 23:37:00 -
[13]
honestly, i fly inties a lot and torps/missiles in general are not the UBERWTFPWN against frigs every n00b pilot likes to make them out as, yes, they can hit you, deal with it.
Monkeyfingers: 15 year old space hooker
Monkeyfingers: awesome. |
Double TaP
The Establishment
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Posted - 2006.08.12 01:29:00 -
[14]
I'm completely for torps not being able to hit frigs for any more than .5 damage. Just increase their base damag by 200% and we have a deal!
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Leshrac Shepherd
Amarr
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.12 13:06:00 -
[15]
Sadly, it looks like in the dev's eyes, what is good enough for turret users is not good enough for missiles.
Imagine a laser crystal with such bonuses as +100% to tracking and -69% signature resolution. So overpowered than thinking about it hurts yeah? But again, the develepoers didn't think twice about adding a T2 cruise missile that did exactly that.
Imagine a laser crystal that made pulse lasers outclass beam lasers at long range or an hybrid charge that made blasters perform better than rails at long range. Absurd you say? Maybe, but it looks like the developers didn't think so when they added a javelin torpedo that had the speed and range of a cruise missile but with torpedo damage...
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.12 13:19:00 -
[16]
All turrets deserve 150% boost in tracking(javelin raven wtfpwning hac at 100m while i need to double web****a to hit it with blasters... ). And for all i care, you can improve missile velocity for 1000% and reduce flight time accordingly.
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Looking for frentix? Mail me. |
Awox
Awox Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.12 13:30:00 -
[17]
/signed
I can orbit a turret battleship real close in my stiletto and his shots will just glance off, if they don't completely miss. Additionally they will NEVER hit if I tracking disrupt these dudes.
Now when I orbit a missile ship, PEW PEW PEW. Unlike drones which are easily killed there is no counter, except for running away (tag-teaming to hold down a target ftl)
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nerf 0.5+ |
Jenstruant Fogg
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Posted - 2006.08.12 13:34:00 -
[18]
Originally by: D One
Yeah, torps are way overpowered. Lets make them do the same damage as blasters. Oh wait, that'd be a damage boost... Never mind...
Sure, as soon as you give me blasters that can hit at 40km
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
LoneStar Industries
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.12 13:34:00 -
[19]
T1 torpedoes are fine. T2 torpedoes hurt.
----------------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness.
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Arkanor
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2006.08.12 14:35:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Arkanor on 12/08/2006 14:38:18
Originally by: Sanctus Gabriel
Torps must be nerfed because the uber pvper Ginger Magician says so http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=377585
and he cant be wrong
At least until he starts using them
[Quote=The guy above me]Sure, as soon as you give me blasters that can hit at 40km
You mean ones that do explosive damage too
Originally by: Ghosthowl
WoW = hardcore paladins smashin dat face.
Originally by: HippoKing
I just cried, you know that? |
Crellion
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.12 15:55:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Crellion on 12/08/2006 15:57:57
Originally by: Stamm
Originally by: D One
Yeah, torps are way overpowered. Lets make them do the same damage as blasters. Oh wait, that'd be a damage boost... Never mind...
Soon as I get precision multifrequency crystals you can get your blaster damage missiles.
Sure you can get precision Multis when my Blasters with Null have 64km optimal like your Megapulse with Scorch 
(boy this is fun)
Edit: Hihi Awox (and to a lesser extent Jenny) want torps nerfed I think that pretty much closes the issue nothing to see here.
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Lucian Corvinus
Gallente
Expert Systems
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Posted - 2006.08.12 16:38:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Awox
/signed
I can orbit a turret battleship real close in my stiletto and his shots will just glance off, if they don't completely miss. Additionally they will NEVER hit if I tracking disrupt these dudes.
Now when I orbit a missile ship, PEW PEW PEW. Unlike drones which are easily killed there is no counter, except for running away (tag-teaming to hold down a target ftl)
You can also insta pop your inty 100km away with turrets, try that with torps.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
LoneStar Industries
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.12 17:05:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Crellion
Edit: Hihi Awox (and to a lesser extent Jenny) want torps nerfed I think that pretty much closes the issue nothing to see here.
What the rolleyes for?
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Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness.
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tiller
Poisonous Monkeys
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Posted - 2006.08.12 17:49:00 -
[24]
Edited by: tiller on 12/08/2006 17:52:28
To the op... if your 'small fast ship' died to a torp raven, then you are a bad pilot, nothing more. Of course, you may of been AFK, but then you deserved to die.
Thankyou for listening. 
edit: The only time I had real success against small targets with javs was with 3 or so painters. However, I could not tackle, lock fast or tank so well... so I was gimped to achieve the dmg. After a few days of experiments with javs I gave up with them as a 'toy' that was fun but not useful in any tactical situation.
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Zar Dim
Minmatar
Matari Order of the Blade
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.08.12 20:29:00 -
[25]
Well my point is it's clear that T2 cruise/torp balance is borked. As it stands now there is absolutly no point in training to t2 cruises when you can use javelins they are better at every thing.
Fitting is harder with t2 sieges but not impossible. This will just mean that a Raven will have one less Heavy Nos or one more PDS.
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Auldare
S.A.S
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Posted - 2006.08.12 20:46:00 -
[26]
TBH this is the classic case of people making their bed and having to lie in it.
People whined about splash damage, it was removed
People whined about cost of missiles, a run went from producing 10 to 100 like all other ammo
People whined about missiles hitting things laying in the flightpath towards target, missiles were made to navigate around them
People whined missiles were too slow to reach target, or couldn't even catch target. The new missile system was brought in
missiles used to be the hardest weapon to use effectively and the most costliest. In fact bring back the old 10 and run, missiles should cost more to fire
================================================
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Benco97
Gallente
On Ravens Wings
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Posted - 2006.08.12 20:50:00 -
[27]
I don't know... Cruise missiles still seem pretty effective to me, torpedos..well.. I don't know much about those so i'll not say but Cruise missiles with the skills are still pretty deadly.
Snug Radio - Fart like a Pirate |
Anasur
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Posted - 2006.08.12 22:36:00 -
[28]
Sigh, another ill thought out whine thread.
Whoever the guy who said he was orbitting a Turret BS at close range and not getting hit must have been fighting a moron. Most turret BS carry a web. You get webbed, you die. Missile users have nothing that can increase our dps against small targets other than a painter, which is highly situational and only offers a minimal increase.
Not to mention that there are no t2 torps that do extra DPS against BS unless you have about 6 target painters on it.
The whole T2 ammo system is screwed up and horribly imbalanced, but they need to rethink the whole thing, not just mess with one weapon that killed you.
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Ginaz
Cataclysm Enterprises
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.08.12 22:45:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Ginaz on 12/08/2006 22:45:36
Torps and Cruises are fine - it's the skill requirement for tech2 missles that is totally fubared.
Oh and i have to say that i can't even fly a raven
------------------------------------------------
F*ck milk.... got beer?
Video: 'Pilgrim - Behind enemy lines'
Veto ftw |
MrRookie
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.12 23:00:00 -
[30]
Edited by: MrRookie on 12/08/2006 23:01:39
Originally by: Stamm
Originally by: D One
Yeah, torps are way overpowered. Lets make them do the same damage as blasters. Oh wait, that'd be a damage boost... Never mind...
Soon as I get precision multifrequency crystals you can get your blaster damage missiles.
Then I want the "insta-onevolley-CR+FR-at -sniper-range" missiles 
Actually it seems balanced to me afterall
Had to correct that...
________________________________________________
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Sae Marr
Amarr
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.08.13 05:44:00 -
[31]
I had a torpedo once.
It was awesome.
-
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eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.13 08:54:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 12/08/2006 17:51:43
T1 torpedoes are fine. T2 torpedoes hurt a little. IMHO, torpedoes are fine.
signed now stop posting about these things at least until ive trained them and can play with them for a bit please
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ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:08:00 -
[33]
Don't sit stationary next to a Raven with your MWD running and you won't get smeared by a Torpedo.
In fact, don't sit stationary next to any BS with your MWD running and you won't get smeared.
My biggest problem are those people who say "but missiles never miss!"
Yeah well missiles don't get 2x or 3x damage hits either. Gimmie a break.
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Jim'ard Stone
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:23:00 -
[34]
Right im finally back to anwser this thread.
I was in a taranis orbitting an npc raven '2006 character', i was getting hit by t1 torpedo's for 66.5 damage a piece per torp and i got out, but as soon as his first volley hit i left with something like 67% hull *estimate* basically another volley would have finished me.
I was the scout i didnt choose to engage this npc'er alone so im not asking for a "OMFG boost ceptors so they can kill all bs npc'ers with ease" but come on, how without aid of a few tracking comp, target painter and webber would a Geddon fair? or a perhaps a Tempest?
Its not that i mind so much about losing a kill, but how should a raven with torpedo's fit to hit Battleship and capital ships scare off a ceptor or any frigate to be fair within one or so volleys.
Im just posting this because i wana know if im completly wrong here and to be fair this is the whine section of forums and if we dont whine about it, it doesnt get brought to CCP's attention and it doesnt get retested to show if it is or is not OTT.
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:27:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Grey Area on 13/08/2006 11:29:02
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
Don't sit stationary next to a Raven with your MWD running and you won't get smeared by a Torpedo.
But turn the MWD off and you'll still just laugh at the damage...
The simple fact is that the rules on sig radius and speed for missile damage reduction are the WRONG way around. If you want to reduce damage, it is currently better to be a SMALL STATIONARY target than a LARGE FAST target.
Speed should reduce damage more than size. End of argument. If you park your Inty next to my Raven at 0 m/s, my Torp should do 100% damage. You're not moving, how hard can you be to hit?
That said, speed SHOULD be related to size...how about this? If you are moving faster than your ship's sig radius in m/s, you start to take damage reduction...Interceptors would only have to move about 20m/s, but BS's would have to get up to 400 or so. THAT sounds like a more "real world" solution than what we have currently.
---
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
TuRtLe HeAd
Apocalypse Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:30:00 -
[36]
Did you have an MWD on ?
Cos torps seldom hit me for more than 10 or 20 with max skills using a standard torp with 0 resist when Im in an Inty. (Em against sheild)
And I think thats fine.
Torps Vs Cruisers ? thats painful to watch sometimes.
They don't need nerfing. Caldari get battered with Nerf bats left right and centre, its about time things went in their favour (After minmatar Of course. Minnies need Boosting.) |
Nisse Owned
Nise's Corp
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:32:00 -
[37]
I'd say fix the description to say torps are guided, and make em lose lock and just fly away if angle to target from torps tip is >75 degrees
Its really really unrealistic and actually hilarius to see torps chasing a mwding frig
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:36:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Grey Area on 13/08/2006 11:39:00
Originally by: Jim'ard Stone
I was in a taranis orbitting an npc raven '2006 character', i was getting hit by t1 torpedo's for 66.5 damage a piece per torp and i got out, but as soon as his first volley hit i left with something like 67% hull *estimate* basically another volley would have finished me.
1. Raven pilot is a muppet. He should have scrambled you. Originally by: Jim'ard Stone
I was the scout i didnt choose to engage this npc'er alone so im not asking for a "OMFG boost ceptors so they can kill all bs npc'ers with ease" but come on, how without aid of a few tracking comp, target painter and webber would a Geddon fair? or a perhaps a Tempest?
2. I'd argue with that...you say you didn't "choose to engage", but if he's a NPCer I'm damn sure he didn't fire at you first.
3. That Raven would hit you for 66.5 damage at all ranges from 0km to 150km. The Tempest and Geddon would have instapopped you at longer ranges. Thank you for illustrating the downside of missiles. Originally by: Jim'ard Stone
Its not that i mind so much about losing a kill, but how should a raven with torpedo's fit to hit Battleship and capital ships scare off a ceptor or any frigate to be fair within one or so volleys.
2. You, in your few million ISK Interceptor, want to kill HIM, in his probably over a billion ISK battleship, in a on-on-one contest? WHAT exactly did you want nerfed again? Originally by: Jim'ard Stone
Im just posting this because i wana know if im completly wrong here and to be fair this is the whine section of forums and if we dont whine about it, it doesnt get brought to CCP's attention and it doesnt get retested to show if it is or is not OTT.
4. You ARE completely wrong. You have brought a one-sided myopic argument to the forums, basically requesting that the smallest ship in the game be wllowed to kil the biggest. Had you even had the common decency to ask that the situation be redressed so that you were at a standoff, there might have been some merit. But NO, you actually want to KILL the BS, and from what you have posted, seem able to have done the required DPS to do so, had it not been for the Raven's ability to actually hit you. My suggestion - go mug more Tempests and Geddons - in my opinion it's your 'ceptor's DPS that needs the nerf, not missiles.
---
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Ghargon
Apocalypse Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Jim'ard Stone
Right im finally back to anwser this thread.
I was in a taranis orbitting an npc raven '2006 character', i was getting hit by t1 torpedo's for 66.5 damage a piece per torp and i got out, but as soon as his first volley hit i left with something like 67% hull *estimate* basically another volley would have finished me.
I was the scout i didnt choose to engage this npc'er alone so im not asking for a "OMFG boost ceptors so they can kill all bs npc'ers with ease" but come on, how without aid of a few tracking comp, target painter and webber would a Geddon fair? or a perhaps a Tempest?
Its not that i mind so much about losing a kill, but how should a raven with torpedo's fit to hit Battleship and capital ships scare off a ceptor or any frigate to be fair within one or so volleys.
Im just posting this because i wana know if im completly wrong here and to be fair this is the whine section of forums and if we dont whine about it, it doesnt get brought to CCP's attention and it doesnt get retested to show if it is or is not OTT.
This freaks me out because to get that much damage there are 2 possibilities. 1 you are a bad pilot and where doing something like sitting around with you mwd on. or 2 this guy had a whole rack of target painters.
Honestly what happened here is a certain situation where you where outmatched. Ive fired off a volley of javelin torps with 3 BCU t2 and seen them do hits of 6.1 damage on inties. overpowered ???
This is another case that proves alot of combat is about personal skill. Torpedo's at the moment i don't feel are overpowered as a weapon system. Precision cruise where opverpowered before they had theyr damage nerfed and now theyr rightly useless outside of certain situations.
One major argument seems to be that torps always hitting is unfair, but when you balance this against the facts that turrets hit instantly its actually completely fair, as at long range a bs will still hit instantly with turrets, while a ravens missles will spend about 30 seconds getting to the target just in time to watch him warp away. Also at close range missles do nowhere near as much damage as other close range turret ships, that fact that you guys miss sometimes is the only thing that realy makes it even.
I never think of the future - It comes soon enough |
Awox
Awox Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:38:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Anasur
Sigh, another ill thought out whine thread.
Whoever the guy who said he was orbitting a Turret BS at close range and not getting hit must have been fighting a moron. Most turret BS carry a web. You get webbed, you die. Missile users have nothing that can increase our dps against small targets other than a painter, which is highly situational and only offers a minimal increase.
Not to mention that there are no t2 torps that do extra DPS against BS unless you have about 6 target painters on it.
The whole T2 ammo system is screwed up and horribly imbalanced, but they need to rethink the whole thing, not just mess with one weapon that killed you.
Or maybe his tracking was so bad after Tracking Disruptor II he was unable to hit me with a webber on me? Heck maybe still going 150m/s+ is enough to avoid fire?
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nerf 0.5+ |
Testicular Testes
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:49:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Testicular Testes on 13/08/2006 11:49:41
Originally by: Awox
Originally by: Anasur
Sigh, another ill thought out whine thread.
Whoever the guy who said he was orbitting a Turret BS at close range and not getting hit must have been fighting a moron. Most turret BS carry a web. You get webbed, you die. Missile users have nothing that can increase our dps against small targets other than a painter, which is highly situational and only offers a minimal increase.
Not to mention that there are no t2 torps that do extra DPS against BS unless you have about 6 target painters on it.
The whole T2 ammo system is screwed up and horribly imbalanced, but they need to rethink the whole thing, not just mess with one weapon that killed you.
Or maybe his tracking was so bad after Tracking Disruptor II he was unable to hit me with a webber on me? Heck maybe still going 150m/s+ is enough to avoid fire?
Any interceptor can within webrange stay alive indefinitely against solely the turrets of a turret BS, while single webbed.
To do damage, the BS needs to either :
- Doubleweb
- Nos and move away (at which point the ceptor can't MWD and will drop the webber, quickly letting the BS get out to 5k+ )
- Drones
- Jam and move away
Webbed does not equal easy to hit. It also means a sentryaggroed turret BS can be held down by any old T1 frigate for minutes on end (excluding the ECM problem), provided the pilot is on the ball.
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Jim'ard Stone
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:50:00 -
[42]
i understand u may think im a bad pilot but im fairly experienced, i know how to kill tho thats all speculative.
With a ranis i did not have a mwd on while Orbitting
i do tho however have the interceptor skill trained only to lvl 3 and my friend does recieve only about 30~40 dmg per torp while tackling a raven so there one thing i can do to help myself, tho this does not explain if a t1 frigate tackle's it too should be hit for nasty damage.
i dont know what else i could be doing wrong other than engaging a raven, which is a silly thing to say to be fair.
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Testicular Testes
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:53:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Grey Area
Edited by: Grey Area on 13/08/2006 11:29:02
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
Don't sit stationary next to a Raven with your MWD running and you won't get smeared by a Torpedo.
But turn the MWD off and you'll still just laugh at the damage...
You'll laugh so hard you'll be able to sustain an entire three volleys.
Volleydamage to the smallest interceptor sigs sans halo/gangbonus :
2700 * 1.25 * 1.1 / 10 = 371.25 (up to 556 per volley on AFs)
That's approximately 20 seconds (first volley takes 0 seconds to fire) an anti-BS fitted Raven takes to deal with an Interceptor without using Drones. Armchair/gutinstinct "SIGNATURE RADIUS, RITE?!" replys are getting old.
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Ghargon
Apocalypse Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:56:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Jim'ard Stone
i understand u may think im a bad pilot but im fairly experienced, i know how to kill tho thats all speculative.
With a ranis i did not have a mwd on while Orbitting
i do tho however have the interceptor skill trained only to lvl 3 and my friend does recieve only about 30~40 dmg per torp while tackling a raven so there one thing i can do to help myself, tho this does not explain if a t1 frigate tackle's it too should be hit for nasty damage.
i dont know what else i could be doing wrong other than engaging a raven, which is a silly thing to say to be fair.
I think what might actually have bin the problem is his setup vs yours. I'm pretty willing to bet that he had target painters, especially if he was npc'in. With these fitted its understandable that he managed to get as much damage on you as he did. In this case its not that his torps are overpowered just that his setup is effective against interceptors. I honestly don't see how he would have got that much damage on you with t1 torps without using target painters or something like that.
I never think of the future - It comes soon enough |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.13 12:05:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Grey Area on 13/08/2006 12:16:05
Originally by: Testicular Testes
Volleydamage to the smallest interceptor sigs sans halo/gangbonus :
2700 * 1.25 * 1.1 / 10 = 371.25 (up to 556 per volley on AFs)
TOTALLY incorrect.
One torp does 27.84 points damage to a stationary interceptor of 22.5 sig radius, and that's assuming all skills at level 5 for the Raven pilot. That makes a volley 167.06 points.
I don't know WHERE you think you got that equation from. I am sure Electrfreak will provde the real one - mine is buried in my spreadsheet.
*Edit* Here it is in "Excel speak"...
=K4*MIN($C10/L6,1)*EXP(-1*(MAX($C11-L8,0)^2)/(1500^2))
In cells;
K4 = warhead strength (495)
C10 = target sig radius (22.5)
L6 = missile explosion radius (400)
C11 = target velocity (0)
L8 = missile explosion velocity (375)
Transparent enough for all to see - try it yourselves.
Some variations;
Skills doesn't make much difference - reducing the ones that effect it to zero for the Raven pilot gives 25.3 points damage
AF sigs are in range 28 to 34 = 34.65 to 42.08 damage.
Only very high speeds make a difference...the same 'ceptor as originally going at 1000 m/s takes 23.4 damage, but at 2000 takes only 8.6.
The MWD penalty (sig radius x 5) will KILL you...raise is to 139 damage per missile if you are stationary, and even at 2000 m/s you take 43 per hit.
Moral - don't post dodgy equations to the forums...
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Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
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Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Jim'ard Stone
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.13 12:27:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ghargon
Originally by: Jim'ard Stone
i understand u may think im a bad pilot but im fairly experienced, i know how to kill tho thats all speculative.
With a ranis i did not have a mwd on while Orbitting
i do tho however have the interceptor skill trained only to lvl 3 and my friend does recieve only about 30~40 dmg per torp while tackling a raven so there one thing i can do to help myself, tho this does not explain if a t1 frigate tackle's it too should be hit for nasty damage.
i dont know what else i could be doing wrong other than engaging a raven, which is a silly thing to say to be fair.
I think what might actually have bin the problem is his setup vs yours. I'm pretty willing to bet that he had target painters, especially if he was npc'in. With these fitted its understandable that he managed to get as much damage on you as he did. In this case its not that his torps are overpowered just that his setup is effective against interceptors. I honestly don't see how he would have got that much damage on you with t1 torps without using target painters or something like that.
Entirly possible but i shall havta check my fraps again. Forgot i frapsed it.
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Testicular Testes
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Posted - 2006.08.13 12:30:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Grey Area
Edited by: Grey Area on 13/08/2006 12:16:05
Originally by: Testicular Testes
Volleydamage to the smallest interceptor sigs sans halo/gangbonus :
2700 * 1.25 * 1.1 / 10 = 371.25 (up to 556 per volley on AFs)
TOTALLY incorrect.
One torp does 27.84 points damage to a stationary interceptor of 22.5 sig radius, and that's assuming all skills at level 5 for the Raven pilot. That makes a volley 167.06 points.
I used 30m, forgetting about the skill bonus. While that's a big duh, the crow, most common Interceptor weighs in at 27m sig at V and 28.8 at IV. Which would put the divisor at 10.41 instead of 10, or effectively 4% lower numbers.
Quote:
I don't know WHERE you think you got that equation from. I am sure Electrfreak will provde the real one - mine is buried in my spreadsheet.
The first two are damage modifiers, the third is the result of explosion radius/sigradius = damage divisor.
Not quite sure how [explosion radius] / [divisor] = [signature radius] was quite that hard an equation to backtrack towards, but I'll let that one slide.
To put the numbers into perspective, a crow with max skills fields 1251 hitpoints, excluding resistances. 1663 if we assume an average resist of approximately 33% due to using 2x Mjolnir/4x Bane.
That's five (4.65) volleys to take out an Interceptor IV crow using only missiles, no drones, no friends - and no lucky lowspeed MWD hits.
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Vathar
Elegance
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Posted - 2006.08.13 12:35:00 -
[48]
Well, doing a quick run with missile guide for a simulation (approx numbers):
With an explosion radius of 300m and a sig of 27m, you get 91% dmg reduction (92% with 23m)
With an explosion velocity of 500m/s and a speed of 700m/s (more than a regular ceptor not mwd/ab-ing) you get an extra 2% dTmage reduction.
Can't remember if torps are affected by missile skills to enhance precision and exp velocity, so I took the standard numbers here.
With skills and a pair of BCU II, a torp can do more than 600 dmg per hit,
so for a thermal torp (often a good choice vs inties since they rarely harden themselves) you get
600*0.08*0.98*0.8=37 dmg per torp ... and I was generous with the inty pilot. Actually, a web won't do much against an inty without mwd. around 220 dmg per salvo on shield, that surely hurts for a BS weapon against an inty.
That's with an inty orbitting at max speed, but since speed doesn't seem to matter much according to the guide, the only way to stand a chance would be to fly an AB inty (and NOT being nossed) an AB inty would get an extra 50% dmg reduction which makes damage withstandable.
Sure, you lose the ability to instapop bad inty pilot that do a straight approach on mwd from 100km. A price I would pay gladly pay!
Well, after a quick thought, we end up ONCE MORE with fubarred T2 ammo. Get rid of silly T2 ammo for all weapon systems and replace it with something more balanced, and this shoud be allright.
_
Originally by: Stamm
Minmatar are kind of like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair firing an uzi
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Jim'ard Stone
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.13 13:18:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Vathar
Well, doing a quick run with missile guide for a simulation (approx numbers):
With an explosion radius of 300m and a sig of 27m, you get 91% dmg reduction (92% with 23m)
With an explosion velocity of 500m/s and a speed of 700m/s (more than a regular ceptor not mwd/ab-ing) you get an extra 2% dTmage reduction.
Can't remember if torps are affected by missile skills to enhance precision and exp velocity, so I took the standard numbers here.
With skills and a pair of BCU II, a torp can do more than 600 dmg per hit,
so for a thermal torp (often a good choice vs inties since they rarely harden themselves) you get
600*0.08*0.98*0.8=37 dmg per torp ... and I was generous with the inty pilot. Actually, a web won't do much against an inty without mwd. around 220 dmg per salvo on shield, that surely hurts for a BS weapon against an inty.
That's with an inty orbitting at max speed, but since speed doesn't seem to matter much according to the guide, the only way to stand a chance would be to fly an AB inty (and NOT being nossed) an AB inty would get an extra 50% dmg reduction which makes damage withstandable.
Sure, you lose the ability to instapop bad inty pilot that do a straight approach on mwd from 100km. A price I would pay gladly pay!
Well, after a quick thought, we end up ONCE MORE with fubarred T2 ammo. Get rid of silly T2 ammo for all weapon systems and replace it with something more balanced, and this shoud be allright.
Cheers for that very cool and the math seems correct, tho the torps were t1 that were hitting me lord only knows for the t2 Javelins would have done.
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.13 13:28:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Grey Area on 13/08/2006 13:30:43
Originally by: Testicular Testes
2700 * 1.25 * 1.1 / 10 = 371.25 (up to 556 per volley on AFs)
Originally by: Testicular Testes
The first two are damage modifiers, the third is the result of explosion radius/sigradius = damage divisor.
Ithink you missed out "totally invented" damage modifiers...where are you getting these from? What gives you a 25% increase and then a 10% increase to missile damage?
10% I can see - from Warhead Upgrades to level 5...the other one is a figment of your imagination...and the damage divisor is 22.5/450 which is a lot less than 1/10th...more like 1/20th...
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Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Crellion
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.13 14:24:00 -
[51]
I wont get into the math geek stuff
If you mwd and die to tech1 torps its because you approached him with mwd on and tried to bump so you were going very slow with mwd on, that or you were soing a very close orbit with very bad navigation skills so that you were going 3km/s or less. if you were doing any serious speed torps wouldnt even hit you period.
You die to torps cruise etc if:
1) you get hit by a volley and lose your nerve and turn mwd on as the second volley is inbound. Your speed still under 1km/s sig cruiser class hp frig class you bbq.
2) You get hit by a volley and lose your nerve and try to warp out with mwd active without prealligning and without turning mwd off first. Second volley hits you again at very low speed high sig. you pop as the capsule is warping capsule ends up a fair ways away from can. Funeh.
Do this next time. As your orbit with mwd on take the frist volley and immeadiately manually allign and turn mwd off. As the second volley hits mwd is off and you are still doing 2-3km/s. Damage per torp 0.1 or therabouts. As soon as they hit press >>> symbol. You are safe, gratz :)
TBH anybody who tries to make suggestions about a weaponsystem and whether its over or under powered without having actually some experience of using the system in practice to see how and when it works and how and when it fails is a donkey with big ears
Therefore I wont say I am sure how good tech II torps work but tech I torps and tech II cruise (post patch) are no biggie for alert ceptor pilots anymore by far.
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