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Zen Dijun
Xoth Inc Usurper.
28
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:19:00 -
[31] - Quote
Sarah Flynt wrote:Zen Dijun wrote:I got into this game for logistics and I really enjoy the jump drive. If you want to nerf jump bridges, portals etc... great, go for it. Leave the logistics folks alone... I could care less what happens to PVP and null sec, but I don't need another reason for logistics to take any longer than it does currently. Wait, you joined this game to do logistics? That alone is fascinating but now that CCP makes logistics harder, which directly translates into more business opportunities for you and tougher nuts to crack - additional content, so to speak, you're complaining?
Yes, PVP is boring ... sorry ;) I enjoy the industry and helping folks get their stuff moved... it's a fun niche most days that folks are willing to pay quite a bit, or at least tip very kindly.
It doesn't translate to more business, it translate to HUGE delays and spending more time in the game that I simply will not be spending. Even more than that, it makes no logical sense to flip a switch from being able to jump as needed to all of the sudden being limited to 5LY and generating jump fatigue. There have to be better ways to dealing with force projection in null sec than nerf hammering everyone (including those that have nothing to do with force projection). |

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5361
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:24:00 -
[32] - Quote
Zen Dijun wrote:Johann Rascali wrote:Zen Dijun wrote:It sounds like a mechanic for the sake of having a mechanic. Just like every other balancing mechanic in every game ever. I would disagree. Many games have mechanics that "make sense" and fit within the intended universe and a reasonable rationale. The changes being made by CCP aren't rational and don't have a rational fit in the game. Why would jump drives or pilots all of the sudden develop fatigue? It feels rather arbitrary that changing the "laws of game physics" just boils down to quelling whiners rather than actually making sense to the game. -- Zen
So your primary concern is that the lore doesn't effectively describe why pilots now feel jump fatigue "all of the sudden"? Really?
That's a good way to balance a game, "We can't change that mechanic, we haven't written a good reason into the make-believe physics yet!"
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |

flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2503
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:27:00 -
[33] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Zen Dijun wrote:Johann Rascali wrote:Zen Dijun wrote:It sounds like a mechanic for the sake of having a mechanic. Just like every other balancing mechanic in every game ever. I would disagree. Many games have mechanics that "make sense" and fit within the intended universe and a reasonable rationale. The changes being made by CCP aren't rational and don't have a rational fit in the game. Why would jump drives or pilots all of the sudden develop fatigue? It feels rather arbitrary that changing the "laws of game physics" just boils down to quelling whiners rather than actually making sense to the game. -- Zen So your primary concern is that the lore doesn't effectively describe why pilots now feel jump fatigue "all of the sudden"? Really? That's a good way to balance a game, "We can't change that mechanic, we haven't written a good reason into the make-believe physics yet!"
I could totally understand your mind gettting fatigue if you ''vanish in thin air'' too much while cyno jumping ... Yup makes perfect sense .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6684
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jump Fatigue is caused by being all shagged-out and disoriented from seeing CCP's jump animation too many times in succession.
To all the goons and CFC still crying over the proposed power projection changes: CCP is not trying to ruin the game, they are trying to ruin your game. |

Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
213
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:34:00 -
[35] - Quote
Logistics for large groups can no longer be accomplished by 2 characters and a few alts jumping with impunity across the map.
That being said, there's a *huge* opportunity for logistics wings to make or break their corporations, and as such, there is likely going to be a lot of recruiting of capable haulers/logistics pilots, and a new emphasis on escorting those pilots on their trade routes.
I also see trade routes becoming a lot more dynamic.
Border zones become more valuable for entities wanting to hold SoV, since they'll have an easier time supplying their armies. Border zones will also see a lot more lowsec/nullsec fighting, as npc-station based carrier/dread wings prey on unprepared/unsuspecting targets.
Deep null becomes a place to live for the most dedicated and most skilled players who can overcome the logistics ch
All of the above things are good for the game. Not every group will survive, and that's okay.
|

Erin Crawford
296
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:39:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tarmo theGreat wrote:If this jumping nerf comes,then no more 260Gé¼ per year from me.
You see... if we had WIS then at least we'd stand some chance of raiding and looting all those abandoned hangers, cargo holder, etc...
on second thought, nah... too much effort, just hand it over!  |

J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4671
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
Zen Dijun wrote:Johann Rascali wrote:Zen Dijun wrote:It sounds like a mechanic for the sake of having a mechanic. Just like every other balancing mechanic in every game ever. I would disagree. Many games have mechanics that "make sense" and fit within the intended universe and a reasonable rationale. The changes being made by CCP aren't rational and don't have a rational fit in the game. Why would jump drives or pilots all of the sudden develop fatigue? It feels rather arbitrary that changing the "laws of game physics" just boils down to quelling whiners rather than actually making sense to the game. -- Zen
So, preventing people from doing 9 jumps to get from North to South within 10 minutes isn't a reasonable rationale thing.
It's called "limit" power projection. If JF and Rorqs would be excluded, everybody and their dog would just load up the JF, put JC in the rorq and use them for mass transport.
If you are leaving, like the OP, can I have your stuff too. I will make sure that UAE gets it when he lays the claim on it. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar |

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
6301
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:48:00 -
[38] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:IT'S A COOKBOOK!! IT'S A COOKBOOK!!!!
That is one subtle allusion. I'm surprised that I picked up on it so quick. Then again, it doesn't hurt to be a fan of early sci-fi TV shows.
Mr Epeen 
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |

Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10646
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:55:00 -
[39] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Solecist Project wrote:IT'S A COOKBOOK!! IT'S A COOKBOOK!!!! That is one subtle allusion. I'm surprised that I picked up on it so quick. Then again, it doesn't hurt to be a fan of early sci-fi TV shows. Mr Epeen  Really nice you picked that one up.
Tbh, the first time I heard it was from Naked GUN ][ ... ... and only later on I've learned where it's from. ^_^
I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |

DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
1057
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
Zen Dijun wrote:Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Zen Dijun wrote:I totally agree with the OP. Jump Fatigue is a STUPID idea. It sounds like a mechanic for the sake of having a mechanic. There are much better ways of dealing with force projection than something like "Oh... my jump drive is tired... hold on".
I got into this game for logistics and I really enjoy the jump drive. If you want to nerf jump bridges, portals etc... great, go for it. Leave the logistics folks alone... I could care less what happens to PVP and null sec, but I don't need another reason for logistics to take any longer than it does currently.
Please CCP, leave the Jump Freighters and Rorquals alone or try something else to deal with null sec that doesn't mean we all get the nerf bat.
I will certainly unsub if these changes come out as described. Dumb idea.
-- Zen
So you are mad because you have to wait 15 minutes between each jump? Actually, according to the dev blog (assuming what they say is accurate) 6 minutes. As the deb blog states, any jump fatigue value below 1, means the next jump fatigue is 1 + (ly jumped (5 max) *.1) . So at most, with jf below 1, you go to 1.5, which takes 6 minutes to get below 1 again. And yes range is nerfed, but it just means a few extra jumps. In the end, it means a slower trip, welcome to the world of hi sev logi where we are all stuck using gates. Have you been involved in mass-scale logistics? It's horrendous at the moment as it is. Adding jump timers, "fatigue" etc will add an inordinate amount of time to the process that already takes too long. Just lining up cynos can take hours. So, not mad... but pretty much at the end of "enjoyment" for EVE, soon to be OFF-LINE, on-line.
Yes actually I have. Both with badgers/iterons in the day before JF's (moving pos equipment and fuel into deep 0.0 through enemy controlled space. Past MC gate camps of 49-U in the IAC vs Fix 49-U war) with carriers (moving ships from deep in qurious to empire. And with JF's (from wicked creek to empire) you know what the secret will be? USE GOD DAMN WORM HOLES. You will cut your travel time in half, of not less. HTFU Adapt or die. But honestly do you have any idea how many times CCP has said they wll change X and people flipped only come to find out that change X was WAY better then people thought? Or because they changed X it now made Y WAY easier, thus negating what X was trying to achive. Change your style, or adapt. Or, don't let the door hit you on the way out, and once all the null changes are done, and you come crawling back with yoru tail between yoru legs, i'll be happy to call you an idiot for over reacting. OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |

Zen Dijun
Xoth Inc Usurper.
31
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 19:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
Change my style or adapt? Sorry, when CCP changes the reason I play with the game, it's easy to just turn it off. I am not sure how jump fatigue and cool down timers will make the game more "fun", but maybe you seem more there than I.
-- Zen
DaReaper wrote:Zen Dijun wrote:Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Zen Dijun wrote:I totally agree with the OP. Jump Fatigue is a STUPID idea. It sounds like a mechanic for the sake of having a mechanic. There are much better ways of dealing with force projection than something like "Oh... my jump drive is tired... hold on".
I got into this game for logistics and I really enjoy the jump drive. If you want to nerf jump bridges, portals etc... great, go for it. Leave the logistics folks alone... I could care less what happens to PVP and null sec, but I don't need another reason for logistics to take any longer than it does currently.
Please CCP, leave the Jump Freighters and Rorquals alone or try something else to deal with null sec that doesn't mean we all get the nerf bat.
I will certainly unsub if these changes come out as described. Dumb idea.
-- Zen
So you are mad because you have to wait 15 minutes between each jump? Actually, according to the dev blog (assuming what they say is accurate) 6 minutes. As the deb blog states, any jump fatigue value below 1, means the next jump fatigue is 1 + (ly jumped (5 max) *.1) . So at most, with jf below 1, you go to 1.5, which takes 6 minutes to get below 1 again. And yes range is nerfed, but it just means a few extra jumps. In the end, it means a slower trip, welcome to the world of hi sev logi where we are all stuck using gates. Have you been involved in mass-scale logistics? It's horrendous at the moment as it is. Adding jump timers, "fatigue" etc will add an inordinate amount of time to the process that already takes too long. Just lining up cynos can take hours. So, not mad... but pretty much at the end of "enjoyment" for EVE, soon to be OFF-LINE, on-line. Yes actually I have. Both with badgers/iterons in the day before JF's (moving pos equipment and fuel into deep 0.0 through enemy controlled space. Past MC gate camps of 49-U in the IAC vs Fix 49-U war) with carriers (moving ships from deep in qurious to empire. And with JF's (from wicked creek to empire) you know what the secret will be? USE GOD DAMN WORM HOLES. You will cut your travel time in half, of not less. HTFU Adapt or die. But honestly do you have any idea how many times CCP has said they wll change X and people flipped only come to find out that change X was WAY better then people thought? Or because they changed X it now made Y WAY easier, thus negating what X was trying to achive. Change your style, or adapt. Or, don't let the door hit you on the way out, and once all the null changes are done, and you come crawling back with yoru tail between yoru legs, i'll be happy to call you an idiot for over reacting. |

baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13561
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 19:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
Zen Dijun wrote:Change my style or adapt? Sorry, when CCP changes the reason I play with the game, it's easy to just turn it off. I am not sure how jump fatigue and cool down timers will make the game more "fun", but maybe you seem more there than I.
-- Zen
If you have a Moros I will happily take it off your hands so that I can adapt it to these changes. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |

Zen Dijun
Xoth Inc Usurper.
31
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 20:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
No, it isn't rational to go from no fatigue and cool down for no good reason. If you don't like the idea of being able to do 9 jumps from North to South, you should probably advocate eliminating jump drives all together and go back to gate hoping endlessly, cause that's what really keeps folks playing EVE! More toil does not equate to enjoyment . I plan to simply vaporize all my stuff so, no one can has. ;)
-- Zen
J'Poll wrote:Zen Dijun wrote:Johann Rascali wrote:Zen Dijun wrote:It sounds like a mechanic for the sake of having a mechanic. Just like every other balancing mechanic in every game ever. I would disagree. Many games have mechanics that "make sense" and fit within the intended universe and a reasonable rationale. The changes being made by CCP aren't rational and don't have a rational fit in the game. Why would jump drives or pilots all of the sudden develop fatigue? It feels rather arbitrary that changing the "laws of game physics" just boils down to quelling whiners rather than actually making sense to the game. -- Zen So, preventing people from doing 9 jumps to get from North to South within 10 minutes isn't a reasonable rationale thing. It's called "limit" power projection. If JF and Rorqs would be excluded, everybody and their dog would just load up the JF, put JC in the rorq and use them for mass transport. If you are leaving, like the OP, can I have your stuff too. I will make sure that UAE gets it when he lays the claim on it. |
|

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2439

|
Posted - 2014.10.06 20:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
This thread has been moved to Out of Pod Experience as it is essentially a quit post.
The Rules: 33. "Quitting" posts are only permitted on the Out of Pod Experience channel.
CCP recognize that during the course of gameplay a lot of friendships are made between players and that sometimes if a player is taking a break or departing from the EVE universe that they would like to say goodbye on the forums. Posts of this nature are only permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum, and must be civil and well worded. ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|

Commissar Kate
Team Evil
76962
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 22:15:00 -
[45] - Quote
Oh look, its raining crap from GD again.
I guess the fine citizens of OOPE are not even immune to this. Why can't I wear that? || My Fanclub
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Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
947
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 22:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
Commissar Kate wrote:Oh look, its raining crap from GD again.
I guess the fine citizens of OOPE are not even immune to this.
They'll let anybody in here, these days! 
\m/ O.o \m/
"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
|

Rouen-Michel en Lefevre
2425
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 04:17:00 -
[47] - Quote
Give the mods a break already. |

Harleena
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 04:53:00 -
[48] - Quote
I'm sure the loss of you leaving will completely devastate CCP and Eve will never be the same. Pfft, see ya |

Muadd Dibb
The Jovian Navy The Jovian Federation
39
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 07:22:00 -
[49] - Quote
2 of my mates chars just re-subbed because of the new changes so im guessing
So you 1 loss is plus 2 for CCP = profit
Dont want you stuff btw  |

Black Panpher
Ganja Inc
1872
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 11:20:00 -
[50] - Quote
There is this game I think you would like, there is no limit to how much logistics you can do and no fatigue. It's called Euro Truck Simulator! No need to thank me, you are welcome. |
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