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Unus Verumi
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Posted - 2006.08.13 10:16:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Unus Verumi on 13/08/2006 10:28:33
In a game such as Eve where work/time spent does not equal character development as it pertains to skills/levels/etc there comes a time when after 3+ years that the gap draws ever more wide from the new player to the old player. As it is, it takes months to train your learning skills in order to be playing effectively, as most people will tell you. This is a tedious process for all new players and draws them farther away from the game then they should be. They will be less active, unwilling to participate for yet another day...in the sixth week of their excistence, flying around in their Caracal with their skills not capable of properly piloting this vesseal, filling almost no roles in their corp other than "an extra high slot".
This initial argument that usually comes up in my mind is that most players CAN contribute within their first week or so rather well as a tackler or expendable bait in a PvP group. That is fine for a couple weeks, but picture the guy who logs in every day , and I know we have all been there at one point or another and had to seriously question why you even logged in as you look at 6d, 12h, 28s left on that Oh so important learning skill. It is extremely and utterly daunting to new players to think of such a thing, especially when the concept is really hard to grasp without extreme patience.
Eve Online is one of the only games I have ever played where I actually watch T.V, browse the internet, play other games WHILE I am playing this one. In a way it is kind of cool to be able to casually play Eve in that sense. It is nice to be able to do your homework, walk the dog, read "War and Peace" while running courier missions.
Is it time to increase learning times in the first months of play say 10%, 20%, or dare I say 50%. Give people a real attachment to their character in the first month, allow them to experience the fun of "dinging" a new skill that we all miss so much in this game at the beginning. There are so many skills now, and so many new skills on the way, that this would not hurt the experienced players, and will give new players a much needed since of accomplishment, that the lack of can otherwise be too much to bear in the early days of an Eve account.
What do you guys think about this? This is not a thread specifically about the "learning skills". If I had my way personally I would make the first 1,000,000 skill points train at 50% increased and tailor down for each 1,000,000 after this.
I would like to hear from both new and old players. I think it would be interesting to see the differences in opinion from the new guy to the old vet. If you dont mind as well please list when you started playing, so people have an idea about where the opinion comes from.
Thanks for reading.
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Jernau Gurgeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.13 10:19:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jernau Gurgeh on 13/08/2006 10:19:59
You don't have to train all of your leaning skills first.
Also, older players do currently advance at a slower rate than newer ones. Have you seen how long it takes to train a battleship skill from 4 to 5?
There are 10 sorts of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who do not. |
Unus Verumi
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Posted - 2006.08.13 10:26:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Unus Verumi on 13/08/2006 10:28:25
I know it happens, but I just can't get used to the one sentence responses that have nothing really to contribute and really argue no points.
You bring up that the old players train slower. Your example is training a skill from 4 to 5. How is that slower than a new player training a skill from 4 to 5 in their first month or two? It is actually more likely slower for the new person because they won't have implants installed, and most likely will have few learning skills learned.
It is NOT necessary to train your learning skills first, but of course it is an essential job that must be undertaken at some point, which can save months on a 2 year old character. The problem lies in the fact that you must train these skills eventually. It is a must, and I think to disagree with that statement would only serve to discredit yourself.
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Ivan Kirilenkov
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.08.13 10:27:00 -
[4]
While this question begs a long answer, I will provide a short one. Not really. New players are just that. New. The road to understanding, and learning Eve is at times narrow and steep. Much of the fun though, can be had while learning to appreciate the many different aspects of the game. And in addition to the rather improved (over what was at the time I started playing the game) new player experiences, there is the community that is Eve. New players are welcomed into many different corporations, and there are countless of players who do their best to make the first meeting with Eve as painless as possible.
The argument can also be made, that new players allready have a headstart on older players in a sense. Making isk is a lot easier today than it was 3 years ago, when some started playing. And to put the end to a myth, a majority of Eve's players aren't 3 years old and insanly rich. Another thing is that with the new advanced learning skills and easier access to implants, new players actually learn at a faster rate than older players did when they started out.
To sum up my short (heh) answer, I don't think so. New players should not be in a battleship in their third week. They should pace their learning, because it will reduce the chances of them loosing that precious battleship to a battlehardened veteran on their first undocking. There is no race to level 60, and skillpoints isn't the be all end all of having fun in Eve.
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Infinity Ziona
Space Elves of Ragnoroth
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Posted - 2006.08.13 10:32:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Unus Verumi
Edited by: Unus Verumi on 13/08/2006 10:28:25
You bring up that the old players train slower. Your example is training a skill from 4 to 5. How is that slower than a new player training a skill from 4 to 5 in their first month or two? It is actually more likely slower for the new person because they won't have implants installed, and most likely will have few learning skills learned.
All skills are not created equal. A newer player training a skill from 4 to 5 might do that in a week. A older player such as myself training a skill from 4 to 5 may do that in 45 days.
It depends on the Rank of the skill as much as the level being trained. A skill of rank (8) is going to take 8 times longer to train from 4 - 5 then a skill of rank (1). It just so happens older players have more higher ranking skills then younger players.
Additionally older players dont necessarily have more implants since many older players dont use expensive implants since they die alot and implants die with them.
'The alliance should not be a solo contentmobile' - Albert Einstein |
Niivvy
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.13 10:42:00 -
[6]
 Quote:
flying around in their Caracal with their skills not capable of properly piloting this vesseal, filling almost no roles in their corp other than "an extra high slot".
rubbish! ANY player can fill a role in a corp at ANY age even in a large established pvp corp a noob with some basic ewar skills in a frig can swing a battle.
or a noob mining can make a small bur appreacated
diffrence to a crop. hell how long does it take to train up hauller skills ??
and when a player reaches about a year old u can pretty much be top of the game on one specalised ship or role. the older players just have mastersed more diffrent aspects in the game.
new players can make a diffrence they dont need a boost
ccp pleeeeeeeeeeze fix the forum bugs
[url="http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? |
Valan
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Posted - 2006.08.13 10:45:00 -
[7]
Comparing yourself to other people is never going to bring you happiness. Concentrate on what you're doing and what you want instead of looking at what everyone else has got. That's what's wrong with half the planet.
If you want to play EVE to sit there in a Titan as fast as possible feeling uber then you really are playing the wrong game. The first months are the best of all if you bypass that too fast you really are missing out. My favourite exploits were in my noob days. If it wasn't for the guys I play the game with I would delete my char tomorrow.
Balance training learning skills with doing training fun stuff like ships and guns.
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Unus Verumi
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Posted - 2006.08.13 10:55:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Unus Verumi on 13/08/2006 10:57:46
Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov
Had to trim because I type to damn much.
Yes, I have actually had this counter argument in my head many times while thinking of this situation and how it applies and coincides with the very nature that is "Eve Online".
My background is I used to play the game had three accounts, characters were 10Millionish Skill Points, more than capable of contributing and self-existing by themselves.
Now I am running the trial and thinking about if I actually didn't have the opportunity to just reactivate my old accounts, how tiresome it truly was to train these learning skills, or just to feel so completely inept. When I was playing with my old seasoned accounts, it was easy to discount the thoughts of the new player. My thinking was generally "I had to go through it, so everyone else should as well.". To be honest, looking at it from the bottom up and not only talking with new players but "living" with them as well. To hear the way new players talk and think. It really seems like people I talk to are begging for something to do, then learning that they aren't quite there yet. Of course, I did lie to them just like everyone else and tell them the old "Oh, it doesn't matter how many skill points you have, everyone can contribute!" while on the other side of the conversation I am asking god to forgive me for my little white lie.
Imagine it like this, nearly every MMO you can possibly imagine to this point has had one constant. That constant was leveling. It is an extremely gratifying experience to hear that little song that plays everytime you have spent hours grinding mobs. Why else do it, you character is now stronger because you put in the time. Because you stayed up all night on a Friday sitting in front of your computer, instead of going to the bar, hanging out with real life friends, going to the beach for the weekend, you can now go kill that ugly Orc that beat your ass the night before.
My thought is that this feeling is quintessential to the new player experience. It is my firm belief after running through the game now on a trial account that Eve is still Eve, and the things you experience in Eve can not be compared to those in other games. You should still become accustomed to the ways of Eve. I just feel that the time it takes to get really into the game is too long, and does not need to be anymore, now that there are so many more skills to learn. I also believe that weening players away from that "ever*****" sense of accomplishment could only do good, and strengthen the community in almost every way.
One thing that got me thinking about this was I was messing around with a skill planner, that took into account your learning skills, implants, attributes, etc. The hypothetical "endgame gear" as it stands now is flying a Titan. The time it takes to fly a titan from newbie character with average attributes, +3 implants, etc was roughly 250 days. 8 months. 3/4 of a year. That is just to be able to board the Titan. You cant shoot anything yet, but you can bump the hell out of people if you want. Something to think about. Remember you really won't be doing anything else during this time, because you couldnt fit anything to any ship you would be flying.
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Edania
Caldari
Ordo Adeptus Astartes
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Posted - 2006.08.13 10:57:00 -
[9]
i dont think new players need a head start, the same thing was talked about when i started nearly 2 years ago sure i will never be able to compete with DR Craymus on skill points, tho one of my near term goals is to hit 50% of his total but i can now and have for a long time been able to play the game to the same level, or in specific fields beyond the average day 1 starter. even 2 years on i cannot pilot any BS effectivly something im fine with but put me in a ferox/vulture and the situation is completly reversed.
you may say that my situation is completly different than yours but id disagre no matter when you start you will always be put in the situation where your in your little noob ship and you see a battleship doing what your doing better and wish that you were in that position. id be willing to wager that people who started 2 weeks after launch or 2 months after launch felt the same way there will always be people starting the game after you who will look up at you and wish that they could be in your shoes
There are pleanty of checks and balances in the skill system preventing age from being an i win button for example for a week i have been training Electronic upgrades 5 that skill is simply a time sink its bonus is utterly pointless and doesnt stand on its own merits but it is required for covert ops and ship classes that are good at one thing and one thing alone rather than the generalist platforms of the T1 ships that take prehaps a day to get into.
your early eve experiences are easy to come by so try them all out, get the pvp first buzz in a frigate then later experience it again in a cruiser, if you jump straight in in a BS youve lost out on a load of experiences because youve taken the big hit first and the small ones are not quite as satisfying.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:03:00 -
[10]
The headstart comes in form of bloodlines with kinda nice attributes, 500k Isk from the storyline, good tutorial, learning skills, advanced learning skills, implants, and loads of pilots able and willing to provide you with assistance.
Anything further, and you'll be missing out a huge part of the learning you have to do to fly more expensive ships.
Welcome to EVE!
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Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Shahadet
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:03:00 -
[11]
I see the slow start as a useful filtering tool for players. If you cant handle the idea that somethings just take time with little to no way (aside from getting a rack of implants form a freind) to speed up the presses then EvE is most likely going to bore you in the long run. In this case getting out of EvE before your 14 day trail is over is for the best. Starting players have everything they need to really just jump into the game. Sure they are not as good as someone with 20mil skillpoints. But really a starting player should not be as good. Most MMOs have a form of Power Leveling that any starting player can rush to all the old players level in a short time. This does not happen in EvE. There is now power leveling system that can be done. At best you can get a nice injection of Isk and a rack implants. This is about as closest to power leveling as you are going to get.
Now ture anyone that starts today will never surpass skill point wise someone that started 3 years ago provided they keep their clone uptodate. EvE does have a barrier where new players can never exceed old players. And new players need to relize this sooner rather then later. Now this does not mean the old players will always be better. In PvP a noob in a frig can and sometimes does pod the old vet with 30mil skill points. In other MMOs the level 5 is never going to kill the level 60+ in pvp and theres a strong chance mechincaly he can not even touch them.
So I guess what this rambling post is about is I like EvE the way it is. I belive the slow start that all players have to deal with is what keeps EvE free of some player types I think EvE is better without. I think that holding a new players hand and giving them a brake on something such as learning skills will only cuase players that currenly don't like the slow character growth that EvE has to stay around an extra month until there 50% noob training bonus wares off and the see that first skill listed as 6d 12hr 23m to train and quit like they should have weeks ago.
You like the Sig? Check them out here and see who made them. |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
LoneStar Industries
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:08:00 -
[12]
Uno.
Duo.
Treo.
----------------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:23:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/08/2006 11:23:56
Im beginning to become a Ivan fan... he types what Im thinking so I dont have to. :)
As for skillpoints, here is the breakdown of skillpoints of active characters on Tranquility:
between 0 and 1 million skillpoints: 358353
between 1 and 2 million skillpoints: 14035
between 2 and 3 million skillpoints: 8149
between 3 and 4 million skillpoints: 5826
between 4 and 5 million skillpoints: 4696
between 5 and 10 million skillpoints: 14859
between 10 and 15 million skillpoints: 9875
between 15 and 20 million skillpoints: 7861
between 20 and 25 million skillpoints: 6194
between 25 and 30 million skillpoints: 4373
between 30 and 35 million skillpoints: 2568
between 35 and 40 million skillpoints: 1313
between 40 and 45 million skillpoints: 257
between 45 and 50 million skillpoints: 4
between 50 and 55 million skillpoints: 7
between 55 and 60 million skillpoints: 1
Stats are from 2006.02.22 and was published in a dev blog. So people arent that much behind as they feel they are. Besides, skillpoints doesnt really matter... there is no race to Titans! This is not WoW...
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000Hunter000
Gallente
Dummy Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:28:00 -
[14]
Without reading any of the other posts... a headstart for newbs? are u kidding me? ur kidding me right? this is a fun thread right?
Suuuure! just give newbs a BS and 100 million isk when they start np.
Yes, i was beeing sarcastic and no, i think current day newbs allready get a bigger advantage then they used to.
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Lihnuz
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Posted - 2006.08.13 11:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Unus Verumi
Edited by: Unus Verumi on 13/08/2006 10:28:25
You bring up that the old players train slower. Your example is training a skill from 4 to 5. How is that slower than a new player training a skill from 4 to 5 in their first month or two?
first, the gain you get from training a lv4 skil to lv5 is not that big of a difrens realy. And train a rank 1 or rank 3 skil to lv5 is much faster than say a rank 8
And you dont have to have 40mil sp to be competetive in this game, just get som frinds and go kill that guy whit 40mil sp..
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Estelle Matsuko
Caldari
The Beiatch Corp Inc
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Posted - 2006.08.13 12:02:00 -
[16]
You¦ve heard that old saw about it¦s the journey that¦s important? Eve is the epitome of that philosophy.
My first character was started christmas 2003, my current one just over a month ago. My current character is only one I play with now (I gave away the older char to a corp mate when I took a 5 month break). If the only things people are after are large isk balances and the latest toys, then they will miss a lot of what makes eve.....well eve.
Training now is a lot quicker than it was so new characters already have a "headstart"
Why should new players get preferential treatment? To stop them getting bored and leaving?. Sorry to sound heartless, but if they are that shallow and impatient then Eve is NOT the game for them, and they will not be missed.
Forget how many sp or indeed isk you have. Play the damn game, join a damn corp and relish the challenge.
Just over a month old and I¦m in a ferox, murdering L3 missions like there¦s no tomorrow, and having far more fun than I did during the long hard slog with my first char. Training seems fine to me.
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Valan
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Posted - 2006.08.13 12:05:00 -
[17]
If you had to level in EVE I would have never picked it up off the shelf.
You mention the end game being in a Titan, or even any other capital ship for that matter. I don't even want a capital ship its not my thing. Goals are set by yourself, objects and ships are a means to that goal. Nobody cares what you can fly, it dies just as easy as any other ship. Objects are tools not the goal itself. Obtaining a carrier might be a short term goal but unless you have a plan to use it why bother. You train the skills to use the tool.
Half the skills you train will be useless in a years time because CCP will nerf it to death anyway. I'm looking at all my EW skills being worthless again, after having to retrain. I had to train loads of missile skills and don't even get me started on drones. I'm still no better than I was I've had to train millions of SPs to stay where I was a year ago. Train for the Thanatos and see what happens.
EVE is different there is no best weapon or uber set up, there is always another one to take you down. Look at BoB they work as a team, in the tournament any of those alliances could've bought the same implants and the same ships. Do you think BoB would still win? Its the tactics, teamwork, willpower and pesonality behind the VR object that makes the difference.
Newbies get the new bloodlines which are boosted characters for free. Then there is the advanced learning skills which we never had. So there are two leg ups. You can mine with more efficiency, you can do missions that weren't there before. 0.0 gates have been added to make 0.0 entry easier. 0.0 belt rats you can kill by sneezing on them. It took our corp best part of year to kit out with BS's, it's achievable in a couple of months now. If it gets any easier it won't be worth logging in.
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Unus Verumi
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Posted - 2006.08.13 12:07:00 -
[18]
Would be a different story if new players actually posted in here I would reckon, I am sure now though that there will be a multitude of alt characters of year old players to argue against my original post. That is fine I did not expect anything less.
How can you honestly say that 50% increase, or less would hinder and harm the foundation of Eve, its gameplay mechanics, or its community. You can not really. The old statement that skills don't matter is a lie. They do matter, it is as simple as that. It would not hurt to allow players to start wearing their first +1 armor before their trial is up if you get my drift. It does nothing but begrudge the new player when it takes so long to experience some of the familiar feelings that would initailly draw you into such a game.
I have not seen one counter-argument that truly disputes this. It would only help the player base and new players joining the game, and would cause no harm as I stated above.
You want to say "Oh well they would just quit anyway because they just dont have the patience to play the game."
I say "Fine, whats the loss to you then?" I will answer that for you. "None."
You say "But of course new players can contribute! Why just the other day my one week old member podded a 30 mil skillpoint vet"
I will say "I doubt it, and just because lighting hit me and I lived that one time, doesn't mean it happens often" or "Yes, they can contribute, but barely, and they not much more than another block on the overview to add to the confusion.". Actually, there a number of things I could say to this one.
Ok guys, what else you got for me? Anything that would answer why this could do anything but help?
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Estelle Matsuko
Caldari
The Beiatch Corp Inc
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Posted - 2006.08.13 12:32:00 -
[19]
"How can you honestly say that 50% increase, or less would hinder and harm the foundation of Eve, its gameplay mechanics, or its community. You can not really. The old statement that skills don't matter is a lie. They do matter, it is as simple as that. It would not hurt to allow players to start wearing their first +1 armor before their trial is up if you get my drift. It does nothing but begrudge the new player when it takes so long to experience some of the familiar feelings that would initailly draw you into such a game."
EVERY single player online in EVE today has gone through the same drag of learning skills, getting podded by an uber player, making thier first mill, thier first pvp kill. 20000+ online playing the game would seem to indicate that there is nothing awry in the kingdom of Denmark.
Why SHOULD new players learn faster? Those that get impatient and disillusioned with the game leave, those that stay are the ones we want. There¦s more staying if the increase in subscribers is anything to go by.
Think of it as a dross and l33t kiddie filter.
Also your arguments would hold a lot more weight if you posted with your main and not a 2 day old character.
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Edania
Caldari
Ordo Adeptus Astartes
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Posted - 2006.08.13 12:35:00 -
[20]
Ok first thing about your 50% thing is its frivilous additional complexity to the coding with small tangible benifit for increased risk even at 200% your for a month or so nothing really changes so frig 5 becomes what 15 days for a new low learning skill player and if the times invested into learning skills you have gained nothing youve still not experienced the game.
secondly when i want a mars bar i eat a mars bar not 25 thats just glutenous. you start and you want to try out the effectivness of an afterburner train it up slap it on your ship and go "cool" or you want to move to destroyers great there an incrimental step, whats the point in getting every tier 1 ship/module in a ludicrously short period of time it gives you no time to explore each things potential individually thus you will have a lower overall game knoledge. give someone everything at once and you merely have a spoiled child rather than a well rounded person.
i personally dislike the "we new players are forced to group up to do anything argument" ie why cant a 1 month old player take down a 3 year player alone? here is a news flash it is often required that 3 year old players gang up to do the same thing. 1V1 in eve is relativly rare and is mostly idiots getting ganked by predators ive had my fair share of idiocy so no offence is ment there.
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Max Godsnottlingson
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Posted - 2006.08.13 12:38:00 -
[21]
Ok. I'm an old player who has not so long ago re-started Eve after a short break. So I know what is what and how to go. After just two months I have almost a billion in my wallet, and Can solo into 0.1 with ease. I'll be trying my hand in 0.0 any day now. I can also hold my own in PvP, I still loose more then I get away from, but have had more then one complementry evemail from opponants on how difficult my ship was to take down.
My point is, other then just bragging  , is that if I can do it, anybody can, all you need to do is take the time to learn who everything hangs together. A good Corp will more then help with that, so don't be afraid to ask, even if it does seem like a silly or stupid question
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JabJabVVV
The Four Aces
Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.13 13:04:00 -
[22]
Edited by: JabJabVVV on 13/08/2006 13:05:03
While skills do matter it would seem to me that the knowledge you hold in your own head rather than your char's head is more important. Last night I went for a bit of low sec PvP with a few corp mates in a ship and setup I could use when I was 2 weeks into the game and had a blast, we did pretty well and had some fun. If we had done the same thing when we were all a couple of weeks into the game then I'm sure the results would have been very different. It is not the skills that would have made the difference but the experience, Max Godsnottlingson's post also backs this up.
Perhaps they could give new players a few more skill points when they start and some more isk so they can get a decent frigate setup on their first day (indeed this may be a good idea) but this wouldn't address the reason I feel most people give up before they even have 2 million skill points and that is a lack of knowledge of game mechanics and tactics, this is the main issue that I feel needs addressing if they want more players. That may mean creating a far more comprehensive tutorial or perhaps even employing instructors to help people in the noob corps get to grip with the game. Accelerating start up for new players will do very little; it'll just mean that it's a battleship they lose when they first go ratting in a pirate infested system due to lack or knowledge rather than a frigate.
Another point that has been addressed is the 'end game', there is no ub3r l337 end game loot and that is the beauty of eve. Your goal is the target you set yourself and the ships and equipment that you train for are merely tools. For example my goals are all to do with my corp and alliance and to facilitate that I am planning to train a mining barge and then a dreadnought because it is what the corp needs. However I do not expect to have any more fun in these than I had last night in the ship I trained for in two weeks. My goals are to do with my relations with my friends and enemies in eve, not what ships I can fly.
Edited for crappy proof reading.
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Jif Lemming
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Posted - 2006.08.13 13:07:00 -
[23]
Implants and learning skills have been around a while but you'll be training faster and earning more isk than I did in my first year. I know it seems hard like I say I have new chars but it's easier than it's ever been.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
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Posted - 2006.08.13 13:18:00 -
[24]
While you do not "have" to train the learning skills is correct, it's also a pointless argument. You do not have to train *any* skill.
You could train only motion prediction in the navigation tree and fly an interceptor - but it also would be plain out stupid because you would then utterly suck with one.
Similary, if you want to play EVE for longer than 6 months you basically *have* to train the learning skills, because otherwise your progression will be very slow. There is a reason most people recommend to train them AFAP - it is simply a very good idea.
But it is for new players also a huge boring timesink. And a rather pointless one. I would not be suprised if many new players loose interest in EVE during their learning skill phase because their char is effeciently not advancing then.
IMO it would help new players big time if new chars would start with the basic learning skills maxxed. I do not really see any reason how that could have anything but positive effects.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.08.13 13:23:00 -
[25]
I think eventually we MIGHT need something to be done for newbs - Im dont think we are there yet.
The real issue is can CCP keep adding content but make is reasonably accessable to new players. If they can we wont need a newb bonus.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Ogdru Jahad
Amarr
Demon Womb
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Posted - 2006.08.13 13:25:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jernau Gurgeh
Edited by: Jernau Gurgeh on 13/08/2006 10:19:59
You don't have to train all of your leaning skills first.
Also, older players do currently advance at a slower rate than newer ones. Have you seen how long it takes to train a battleship skill from 4 to 5?
for me 27d 15.x h
:)
Great Quotes...
INNOMINATE NIGHTMARE > Your mother is an Exotic Dancer and your Sister works in a Quafe Factory..... |
Testicular Testes
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Posted - 2006.08.13 13:44:00 -
[27]
Level 5 prereqs need to go the way of the dodo and it's all good.
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Liu Kaskakka
PAK
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Posted - 2006.08.13 13:49:00 -
[28]
no
King Liu is RIGHT!!
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Valan
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Posted - 2006.08.13 14:01:00 -
[29]
There is no content in EVE the content is player driven.
OK here is are a few questions to see what can be done to help. Three months in what goal do you have? What is preventing you from achieving the goal? How are vets two plus years in the game preventing from achieving that goal? What do you need?
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Tonkin
Singularity.
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Posted - 2006.08.13 14:10:00 -
[30]
i ahte it wheen noobs complain about people being stronger than them. what happend to starwars gallaxys when it took about a year to become a jedi. then they changed it so that people can start the game as a jedi. lots of people left becasue of anger. i would leave if a noob was in a carrier in 2 months time.
if you still dont like it mate GO ON EBAY, buy a a charactor with loads of skill points. and ebay buyers i have noticed have no idea what the hell they are buying half the time lol, they want a one man army charactor and then they realise there a ubber carebear miner charactor.
will kill anythin for the right price |
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